StealthGoblin
Banned
Having special access to the console early and being invited in to an in person tear down may turn your head.
It's not a good console at all. They aren't consistent with their criticisms.
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Remedy Games Dev on Series S: You have to take into account the technical limitations from the beginning of development
- Thread starter Bernoulli
- Start date
It's not a good console at all. They aren't consistent with their criticisms.
Del_X
Member
I don't feel like next gen features are being scaled back because of the PS5 on my PC let alone the Series S.
Open world size is very unlikely to be impacted in a meaningful way. Dial back the draw distance or give a more aggressive LoD. Concurrent memory-intensive tasks (split-screen) definitely will be.
Dynasty8
Member
Not just Remedy. You have Larian, ID Software and more referring to the technical limitations from everything I've read. I am sure most developers would agree.
IMHO it would have been the better move to keep the same power as the X, making it digital only (which is what Microsoft essentially wants to push subscribers) and reduce the MSRP by $100. This is what Sony has been doing...but nothing wrong with that. Plus Microsoft was really pushing Game Pass Ultimate hard prior to the release of the Series consoles. It made sense.
Bogroll
Likes moldy games
I agree. The landscape has changed, but back then people made games with imagination and for the love of it. Put on their big boy pants and got on with it.
I just hope they're not using this as a excuse so Devs can copy and paste the same stuff over and over.
We'll see at the end of this gen ( I don't count a mode splitscreen) as their will be no excuse for PS5 exclusives don't have the same ball and chain. Lets see what games they come up with that wouldn't be possible on SS. Let's hope to see some creative imagination.
paulyboy81
Neo Member
This really.
I know this place is essentially Series S colour blind, but it absolutely has it's place in the market. Not everybody has the means nor the technical inclination to spunk the money on the big boy consoles.
And yes, accounting for the lower base specs (mostly memory bandwidth one assumes in the case of the Series S) is undoubtedly a pain in the arse, but that's game development, and something the industry has had to deal with for decades in some form or another.
I imagine the Series S is a minor inconvenience next to having to wrestle with the vastly different and opposing console architectures of old for multiplatform games.
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Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
I've been called a troll for saying the exact same thing in harsher terminology.
The Series S is a fucking joke console that is holding this generation back. Non industry shills have been screaming this from mountain tops this since the second it was announced.
Watch how GTA 6 gets held back significantly because of the Series S.
This dev is saying what I'm saying, but he cant say it how im saying it - because he's part of the industry.
The Series S is a fucking joke console that is holding this generation back. Non industry shills have been screaming this from mountain tops this since the second it was announced.
Watch how GTA 6 gets held back significantly because of the Series S.
This dev is saying what I'm saying, but he cant say it how im saying it - because he's part of the industry.
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Vox Machina
Banned
I don't see how that's any different than PC development
TheTony316
Member
And this is why MS first party titles won't be on par with Sonys for the reminder of the gen. Sony doesn't have a PS5 light to worry about.
And Microsoft can't just abandon the Series S, since most of their installbase are Series S owners.
And Microsoft can't just abandon the Series S, since most of their installbase are Series S owners.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
PC doesn't have parity clauses. They also leave the scaling options open to the end user.
Baseline should have been PS5/XSX, that would have done far more to drive games forward, especially on the PC raising the bar of entry.
Vox Machina
Banned
Yeah I think Xbox may have to start thinking about lowering the stringency of that parity commitment later in the gen. "Limited Parity" where the game is largely the same but scaled to the hardware, but esoteric modes like couch-coop might be able to be left to the higher-spec units.
Negotiator101
Member
Possibly the most ambitious game this generation is coming on Series S, and need I remind you PS5 only Spider-Man 2 ain't setting the world alight mate. Oh but what's holding that back?
the nonsense spreads like covid on here 
Sleepwalker
Member
Whats funny is that the xbox one struggled to keep up for 7 years and after the one X and series X youd think theyd double down on power.
Instead they doubled down on weakness and made a system that compared to the competition is way worse than the xbox one ever was. Lol
Instead they doubled down on weakness and made a system that compared to the competition is way worse than the xbox one ever was. Lol
bitbydeath
Gold Member
Thirty7ven
Banned
Hope devs build for PS5 baseline and move on from there. If the Xbox version has to be delayed or cancelled so be it.
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bitbydeath
Gold Member
PC doesn't have any clauses for what hardware it must run on, that's up to the devs to decide.
ChiefDada
Member
Rockstar will clip their nuts before they allow Series S to stunt their vision for GTA 6.
Yep, makes Playstation's job easier/cheaper securing 2nd and 3rd party exclusives, whether timed or not.
blakdecaf
Member
The S was a batshit idea to begin with. Should've gone down the Sony route with a simple digital version of the X, with horsepower parity.
Then again they were thinking of the $$. Not that we'll ever know, but it would be interesting to see what the PS5 DE looks like sales wise vs the S.
Then again they were thinking of the $$. Not that we'll ever know, but it would be interesting to see what the PS5 DE looks like sales wise vs the S.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
With all the stuff like the odorants and popcorns and feminine products that Microsoft is releasing for the Xbox brand, I'm surprised they haven't taken the golden opportunity to make an Xbox series s door stop. Take all the defective chassis that are broken and repurpose them and sell them for 10 bucks a pop. This is the way to go in the future.
It works on multiple levels because the cheaper quality broken units will break and then people will be wanting the real deal and they'll start spending $300 for the real one and that one won't break as easily.
It works on multiple levels because the cheaper quality broken units will break and then people will be wanting the real deal and they'll start spending $300 for the real one and that one won't break as easily.
onnextflix5
Member
Erm that's exactly what they are doing. It's in the license contract,
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StereoVsn
Gold Member
What's hilarious is that BG1&2 release had a physical option on all three consoles.
SenkiDala
Member
I get the hate on the XSS but it is kinda dumb... People saying "they should have gone with a digital version" ok but... The price wouldn't have been so low. I mean the PS5 digital is 399$ (449€ here...) the XSS is 299, it's 25% of the price.
I have a XSX and I'm happy with it but I can understand people getting the XSS. I know people who got it and are sooo happy with it.
And I love AW but "you should take into account the technical limitations of the machine you dev on, early in development", no shit ? Why not developing a game, running on PC, technically looking like "Forbidden West" and then "well well, let's put that in this Nintendo Switch", seriously ? Well that would explain a lot about shitty optimisation since more than a decade. : /
gametimedecision
Member
Microsoft needs to make make an upgrade path for consumers who own an S to get a series X and then take away the requirement of having to develop for the S. Bite the bullet on this like they did for the red ring.
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H . R . 2
Member
THANK GOD !!!! a dev has finally come forward and put those idiotic comments about scaling to rest.
many used to and many still believe otherwise, saying:
"oh, you can always scale things back, for sure"
NO! A next-gen game with next-gen features can never be at any point uncertain about its choices.
physics and its gameplay implications, animations, lighting, Draw Distance, and many other things can never be afterthoughts.
next-gen has finally begun and cross-gen games are mostly gone until the next generation. nevertheless, SS is a problem
PC doesn't have generations in the sense that consoles do.
you don't see developers creating games that can still be run on 10-year-old PCs
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IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
But there's no evidence that their low price scheme really helped them.
They are selling less consoles than last gen, with Series S's just shitting up shelves.
If they had gone purely with the X they'd probably have sold just as many if not more consoles IMO.
Vox Machina
Banned
I'd imagine that this problem would be solved if the future Series S is a handheld instead of a stationary unit. The expectations for what modes a handheld supports are different than parity between two stationary units.
For instance, BG3 will apparently run on a Steam Deck, but will have its couch-coop feature disabled. Which means it doesn't have parity with the PC version but I'm not sure most users of the Steam Deck or equivalent PC Handhelds care that that parity doesn't exist on that hardware.
For instance, BG3 will apparently run on a Steam Deck, but will have its couch-coop feature disabled. Which means it doesn't have parity with the PC version but I'm not sure most users of the Steam Deck or equivalent PC Handhelds care that that parity doesn't exist on that hardware.
onnextflix5
Member
Problem is ms won't let you ship a game that runs at 10fps, and if you don't get the all clear from ms, you won't be shipping your game on any Xbox.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
Starfield?Possibly the most ambitious game this generation is coming on Series S, and need I remind you PS5 only Spider-Man 2 ain't setting the world alight mate. Oh but what's holding that back?
And you can shit on Spider-Man 2 if you want. Changes nothing about the situation. More than one dev has said what was said here and no amount of spin-the-bottle will suddenly make that wrong.
Skifi28
Member
I was under the same impression until cyberpunk got released on ps4/xb1. Then I realised nobody at game certification cares about performance, as long as it boots it's probably fine.
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Vox Machina
Banned
Raising the bar of entry also impacts subscription gaming reach.
Nah, considering the barrier to entry would still be the Series S. In a hypothetical world where BG3 was on Game Pass then BG3 would still be on the Series S, just without couch-coop.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
The S maintains that the PC development baseline doesn't push forward as quickly as it would have with X/PS5 being the baseline.
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CanYouFlyBobby?
Banned
What happened to the experts claiming that games would be made for the Series X and just get downscaled for the S bro ??
Topher
Identifies as young
Perhaps make split screen coop freely available on XSS through xCloud without requiring Game Pass subscription.
So basically what you are saying is that devs don't want to do the work of scaling and rather push it to the end user.
So basically it has nothing to do with Xbox Series S. But everything with Devs not wanting to do one second of extra work to find the perfect mix of optimized setting.
As Alex from DF said, "I'm tired of doing free QA for these companies".
The problem is not the console its the devs.
If you have a pc version that can go all the way to Low settings, then its nonsensical to claim that XSS is holding back anything.
When your settings option on PC for your game is LOW, MEDIUM, HIGH and ULTRA.
Again XSS has the same CPU as XSX with just lower memory and lower GPU.
Again just reducing the texture resolution and render resolution should cover 95% of the cases.
For other situation you reduce number of point light on VFX similar to what Matrix Demo did or slightly lower crowd/pedestrian/traffic density or simply don't include RT.
This is much ado about nothing.
if Its Native 4k on XSX, simply make it 1440p on XSS.
if its Native 1440p on XSX, simply make it 1080p or 900p on XSS.
if its 4k Textures on XSX, simply convert all the textures to 2k.
Its not rocket science.
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Vox Machina
Banned
If that's true then PC Handhelds will have the same effect. BG3 will be on the Steam Deck, notably with couch-coop disabled. Nobody forced Larian to support Steam Deck either, they did it voluntarily.
Vox Machina
Banned
Yeah, that would be the solution moving forward in a world with handhelds. If the game cannot reasonably scale down, or cannot support a mode in particular, on the lower spec handheld, then either deliver the entire game through cloud streaming or that specific feature/mode (and allow the developer to make this call). Then, if the Handheld is dockable to the stationary unit and can use the stationary unit's APU then that game or feature could be delivered natively.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
CMA be like,
A lot of games "run" on the Steam Deck. "Verified" means nothing.
Steam Deck does have more RAM, however. But once again, there is no parity clause. They are allowed to remove features.
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Topher
Identifies as young
In the case of Baldur's Gate 3, it absolutely has to do with the Xbox Series S and has nothing to do with graphical modes or resolution. It's just about split screen coop and the XSS memory configuration.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Dev: "We can make the game run beautifully on thousands of different possible hardware config combination specs"
Gamers: "Wow really? That's awesome!"
Dev: "But we can't make the game run on one predefined hardware config spec"
Gamers: "I knew it! Makes perfect sense!"
Vox Machina
Banned
Yeah I do think they may need to relax the parity commitment later in the gen. and like
Topher
said allow the devs to deliver games or individual modes through Cloud Streaming (but not require a GPU sub for it).
Negotiator101
Member
Proof is in the games mate and Series S has been performing decently enough. It even achieved 60fps with Raytraced Global Illumination which is one of the most computationally expensive forms of raytracing bar pathtracing. That's simply not possible on last generation systems, so it is indeed a capable budget current gen console regardless what a vocal minority would have you believe.Starfield?
And you can shit on Spider-Man 2 if you want. Changes nothing about the situation. More than one dev has said what was said here and no amount of spin-the-bottle will suddenly make that wrong.
Topher
Identifies as young
Does the split screen work on PC?
Topher
Identifies as young
PC minimum system requirements require more memory than XSS has.
Lupin25
Member
Hence, why they went PS5/PC only.
Can't really blame the devs here when MS could've had a similar SKU setup to Sony's (no drawbacks), instead of trying to undercut them in price.
The Series S is the majority of SX/SS console sales, but hopefully the Series S does more good than harm this gen, because we should only expect even more ambitious games like BG3, GTA VI, The Witcher 4, etc. in the future.
Can't really blame the devs here when MS could've had a similar SKU setup to Sony's (no drawbacks), instead of trying to undercut them in price.
The Series S is the majority of SX/SS console sales, but hopefully the Series S does more good than harm this gen, because we should only expect even more ambitious games like BG3, GTA VI, The Witcher 4, etc. in the future.
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They want us to ignore 99.9% of games and make excuses for devs who don't want to do what they are paid to do (development) and upgrade their engine. Makes no sense.
Processor: Intel i5 4690 / AMD FX 8350
Memory: 8 GB RAM
Graphics: Nvidia GTX 970 / RX 480 (4GB VRAM)
Are you kidding me? This is obviously an engine problem. Alot of devs are refusing to do actual development and upgrade their damn engine and blaming the hardware. So they are dragging around a dead engine to next gen and crying foul. Unbelieveable.
Take it from the beloved insominac, the PS5 were so fast they had to upgrade their engine to take advantage of it.
Note, if you don't take advantage of next gen features, you are dragging an old engine into the next gen. Your game will suck.
I mean even today no game other than UE5 games use mesh shaders (XS/PC) (primitive shader on PS5).
Its not the consoles, its the devs.
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