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[adamsapple]

Yes. They are the same tracks! If one game has fewer details on that track, then that's a point worth including, of course. Otherwise, you could compare Forza Motorsport 7 with Gran Turismo 2 or FM3 with GT 7.

Absolutely it does. See above. They are the same real-world tracks. One game has more details than the other.

Man, come on Heis you're better than this. You're legitimately making a comparison about two completely different renderings of the same geographical location where there are TONS of differences in where buildings, billboards, side barriers etc are placed and you want to use those couple of pictures of different tree renderings.

Nope. And your problem seems more to be with the comparison video in that case. You should bring that up to the YT channel that posted this or the guy who shared that video in this thread.

Not sure why the screenshots of a video that was already posted and being discussed upset you so much.

My "problem" is that you're, and I think intentionally, using a dumb/juvenile argument to propagate a comparison by comparing literal apples to oranges here.



--


Alright, let's play it your way then ..


1. GT7 has flat PS3 style soupy mountains here where Forza is drawing actual geometry and crowds.

.

GT7 has lesser detailed barriers on the left and right and it's also missing a blimp.

Forza is drawing tons more geometry, farther draw distance on the hills and an actual 3D crowd here where GT7 looks barren by comparison.

Any time someone shows that Forza isn't a clear cut winner, Adamsapple shows up to try to change the discussion.

Both have different strengths.

Easy there champ, you don't have to go at it this hard

 

[Unknown?]

Man, come on Heis you're better than this. You're legitimately making a comparison about two completely different renderings of the same geographical location where there are TONS of differences in where buildings, billboards, side barriers etc are placed and you want to use those couple of pictures of different tree renderings.





My "problem" is that you're, and I think intentionally, using a dumb/juvenile argument to propagate a comparison by comparing literal apples to oranges here.



--


Alright, let's play it your way then ..


1. GT7 has flat PS3 style soupy mountains here where Forza is drawing actual geometry and crowds.

.

GT7 has lesser detailed barriers on the left and right and it's also missing a blimp.

Forza is drawing tons more geometry, farther draw distance on the hills and an actual 3D crowd here where GT7 looks barren by comparison.

Easy there champ, you don't have to go at it this hard

Lol, none of what you said is even true of your cherry picked stills. Nice!

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

Can't believe PD couldn't even put in the blimp.

 

[adamsapple]

Lol, none of what you said is even true of your cherry picked stills. Nice!

The fact that you can't even see the irony in writing that is *chef's kiss*.

 

[Unknown?]

Can't believe PD couldn't even put in the blimp.

Not realistic, they don't do blimps at Laguna Seca.

 

[Mr Moose]

Forza is drawing tons more geometry, farther draw distance on the hills and an actual 3D crowd here where GT7 looks barren by comparison.

Needs some 3D crowds.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Man, come on Heis you're better than this. You're legitimately making a comparison about two completely different renderings of the same geographical location where there are TONS of differences in where buildings, billboards, side barriers etc are placed and you want to use those couple of pictures of different tree renderings.

My "problem" is that you're, and I think intentionally, using a dumb/juvenile argument to propagate a comparison by comparing literal apples to oranges here.

Lol I really don't get your point. It almost seems like a way to derail the original comparison. For the 4th time, these screenshots are from a comparison video earlier posted in this thread by someone else.

If you think this comparison bad, then it means you do not agree with that comparison video?

For reference, the video drives the same car, on the same track, in the same weather conditions, at the same time of day in both Forza and GT 7 and then shows both footage side-by-side.

You don't agree with that comparison and think that is "apples to oranges?"

 

[Unknown?]

The fact that you can't even see the irony in writing that is *chef's kiss*.

I can, and that's why I wrote it. Hopefully it shows you how ridiculous your hard work looks to the rest of us.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

Any time someone shows that Forza isn't a clear cut winner, Adamsapple shows up to try to change the discussion.

Hence, don't waste your energy.

 

[adamsapple]

Lol I really don't get your point. It almost seems like a way to derail the original comparison. For the 4th time, these screenshots are from a comparison video earlier posted in this thread by someone else.

If you think this comparison bad, then it means you do not agree with that comparison video?

For reference, the video drives the same car, on the same track, in the same weather conditions, at the same time of day in both Forza and GT 7 and then shows both footage side-by-side.

You don't agree with that comparison and think that is "apples to oranges?"

You posted some cherry picked screens showing missing things in Forza that were in GT, I showed some cherry picked things missing in GT that were in Forza.

We are both equally dumb now for having participated in comparing two completely different renders of a location that are not supposed to be 100% identical in where they place incidental details and foliage or barriers.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

You posted some cherry picked screens showing missing things in Forza that were in GT, I showed some cherry picked things missing in GT that were in Forza.

We are both equally dumb now for having participated in comparing two completely different renders of a location that are not supposed to be 100% identical in where they place incidental details and foliage or barriers.

It's sad that you have to break it down as if you are explaining it to a child.

 

[Mr Moose]

Forza adds trackside details, such as lights, 3D crowds here and there and some other things. It's because the tracks look a bit boring in real life (and GT7 is more "accurate").

 

[Heisenberg007]

You posted some cherry picked screens showing missing things in Forza that were in GT, I showed some cherry picked things missing in GT that were in Forza.

We are both equally dumb now for having participated in comparing two completely different renders of a location that are not supposed to be 100% identical in where they place incidental details and foliage.

No. It's not dumb. And I was absolutely not talking about that Forza doesn't have a pole here or the billboard there. I never said any such thing in my comment.

I was referring to overall object density and environmental details, which are higher in GT 7: foliage, tessellation, draw distance, etc. And posted screenshots to back up my claim.

 

[SlimySnake]

I posted screenshots from a comparison video. If you're claiming otherwise, point that out in the same screenshots above.

It's funny you pretend to be a graphic expert but you could only see a cone and not all the missing trees and people in those screenshots.

You are basing your opinion on a freaking traffic cone, trees and foliage in different seasons/time of year, and far away trees to show GT7 has better trees when everyone and their mothers know GT7 doesnt.

What do you want me to do? Post comparisons of AC Mirage in the desert vs AC Valhalla in the green fields of england to show Valhalla has better foliage? Because thats what you are doing with your comparison.

At the end of the day, you are trying to argue things that are facts. Forza has 3D trees. GT7 doesnt. Forza has better trackside detail, GT7 doesnt. There is no room for argument here. There is nothing to disprove. You wouldnt say GT7 has better reflections than the RT reflections in Forza? Or better GI light bounce than the SSGI in Forza, would you? Now, You could argue that GT7 has better interior modeling and that would be something we can discuss since it Forza seems to have issues with certain materials. You could claim that GT7 has better lighting in some scenarios and many have done that in this thread. But what you are doing is making statements like the ones below based on one lousy comparison while ignoring all the other evidence out there showing otherwise.

GT 7 excels in both car as well as environmental details.

1. GT 7 has significantly better and richer trees with more volume and accurate color.
2. GT 7 has better tesselation, track details, and terrain texture.
3. GT 7 has a much better draw distance and is rendering more things on the screen.

 

[Heisenberg007]

You are basing your opinion on a freaking traffic cone, trees and foliage in different seasons/time of year, and far away trees to show GT7 has better trees when everyone and their mothers know GT7 doesnt.

How did you come to the conclusion that it was the different seasons/times of the year in both footage? . Please do tell me which season was in GT 7 and which season was in FM

And today I learned that trees completely disappear in different seasons, right to the roots, and then grow back up again when the right season comes

 

[Three]

This thread isn't about which looks the best more than who can take the worst pic. and since Forza has a pc version with low settings that is an uneven playing field.

The audacity of complaining about a PC version and an uneven playing field when absolutely no images here have any settings lower than console. If anything the uneven playing field works the other way, high settings on PC with XSX being even lower than the lowest setting possible on PC. If more actual console shots were shared it would put it in an even worse position.

 

[PropellerEar]

You are basing your opinion on a freaking traffic cone, trees and foliage in different seasons/time of year, and far away trees to show GT7 has better trees when everyone and their mothers know GT7 doesnt.

What do you want me to do? Post comparisons of AC Mirage in the desert vs AC Valhalla in the green fields of england to show Valhalla has better foliage? Because thats what you are doing with your comparison.

At the end of the day, you are trying to argue things that are facts. Forza has 3D trees. GT7 doesnt. Forza has better trackside detail, GT7 doesnt. There is no room for argument here. There is nothing to disprove. You wouldnt say GT7 has better reflections than the RT reflections in Forza? Or better GI light bounce than the SSGI in Forza, would you? Now, You could argue that GT7 has better interior modeling and that would be something we can discuss since it Forza seems to have issues with certain materials. You could claim that GT7 has better lighting in some scenarios and many have done that in this thread. But what you are doing is making statements like the ones below based on one lousy comparison while ignoring all the other evidence out there showing otherwise.

Was your "holy shit" picture with asswank reflections from XSX?
Good eye for impressive graphics.

Did you even ask your mom for a second opinion?

 

[Mr Moose]

How did you come to the conclusion that it was the different seasons/times of the year in both footage? . Please do tell me which season was in GT 7 and which season was in FM

Because of the grass/no grass.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Because of the grass/no grass.

And isn't that ridiculous? Here is a comparison screenshot of The Witcher 3 between PS4 Pro and Series S.

The PS4 Pro version is missing the flowers.

No differences between the two consoles and it must be the Autumn season when Geralt went through here on the PS4 /s

 

[Three]

How did you come to the conclusion that it was the different seasons/times of the year in both footage? . Please do tell me which season was in GT 7 and which season was in FM

And today I learned that trees completely disappear in different seasons, right to the roots, and then grow back up again when the right season comes

The trees thing is true but you can tell they are different seasons not only by the amount of foliage but also because they have completely different sun positions, which is why Turk1993 had trouble lining them up in his comparisons.

 

[Negotiator101]

Was your "wow" picture with asswank reflections from XSX?
Good eye for impressive graphics.

Did you even ask your mom for a second opinion?

Calling anyone a clown with this witless response is laughable mate. How about discussing things instead of pathetic insults?

 

[GHG]

Seriously, I'm not seeing it. I've just watched this review and graphically this isn't anywhere near up there with what GT7 offers, let alone some of the newer PC sims that are available now:





Watch for a helicopter popping into the sky out of nowhere at 7:25, and then the discussion surrounding graphics specifically starts at 12:34.

He also says the wet weather effects are over the top, which I'm inclined to agree with for reasons I've discussed here.

Lots of try hards at the moment and quite simply some of what's being discussed doesn't match up with what anybody is saying in the racing enthusiast community.

 

[SlimySnake]

How did you come to the conclusion that it was the different seasons/times of the year in both footage? . Please do tell me which season was in GT 7 and which season was in FM

And today I learned that trees completely disappear in different seasons, right to the roots, and then grow back up again when the right season comes

Common sense. One has a brown look while the other is green. There are other greener tracks with lots more foliage and trees in forza. Comparing two completely different color palettes and obvious art style decisions to determine tree quality and foliage is utterly ridiculous when there are dozens of tracks far greener with more foliage and better trees.

Once again your flaw is using one track to base your argument for the entire game when facts literally don't support them.

 

[Zuzu]

Lots of people have praised the handling so they obviously have that going in the right direction. Love to get my hands on it.

Out of curiosity, i haven't seen it mentioned. Does Motorsport still have puddles that effect your driving? I think 7 called it 3D Puddles?

I don't know about the puddles sorry. I've only played one race in the rain and that was with moderate rainfall. I can say that rain on the track changes the way the car handles very noticeably though.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Common sense. One has a brown look while the other is green. There are other greener tracks with lots more foliage and trees in forza. Comparing two completely different color palettes and obvious art style decisions to determine tree quality and foliage is utterly ridiculous when there are dozens of tracks far greener with more foliage and better trees.

Once again your flaw is using one track to base your argument for the entire game when facts literally don't support them.

Why is your immediate conclusion that the different color palette is because of different seasons?

And why can't color palettes be different because of artistic choice? (which is wayyy more logical and happens way more often than "different seasons").

 

[PropellerEar]

Once again your flaw is using one track to base your argument for the entire game when facts literally don't support them.

Did you check these facts with your mom, the absolute authority on graphics?

 

[adamsapple]

You are basing your opinion on a freaking traffic cone, trees and foliage in different seasons/time of year, and far away trees to show GT7 has better trees when everyone and their mothers know GT7 doesnt.

What do you want me to do? Post comparisons of AC Mirage in the desert vs AC Valhalla in the green fields of england to show Valhalla has better foliage? Because thats what you are doing with your comparison.

Might as well, we're seeing Witcher 3 comparisons, the exact same game across different consoles, as some kind of a validation of two different games' completely different rendering approach.

It won't really be out of place in the current discussion.

 

[Unknown?]

Common sense. One has a brown look while the other is green. There are other greener tracks with lots more foliage and trees in forza. Comparing two completely different color palettes and obvious art style decisions to determine tree quality and foliage is utterly ridiculous when there are dozens of tracks far greener with more foliage and better trees.

Once again your flaw is using one track to base your argument for the entire game when facts literally don't support them.

Okay but that same footage was used earlier to say Forza looked better. Your opinion therefore is this cannot be used to show one is better than the other.

 

[Turk1993]

Why is your immediate conclusion that the different color palette is because of different seasons?

And why can't color palettes be different because of artistic choice? (which is wayyy more logical and happens way more often than "different seasons").

Because it is, its just common sense. When it looks like this during summer

And this during spring

 

[Negotiator101]

And isn't that ridiculous? Here is a comparison screenshot of The Witcher 3 between PS4 Pro and Series S.

The PS4 Pro version is missing the flowers.

No differences between the two consoles and it must be the Autumn season when Geralt went through here on the PS4 /s

At least you've moved on from Starfield

Seriously, I'm not seeing it. I've just watched this review and graphically this isn't anywhere near up there with what GT7 offers, let alone some of the newer PC sims that are available now:





Watch for a helicopter popping into the sky out of nowhere at 7:25, and then the discussion surrounding graphics specifically starts at 12:34.

He also says the wet weather effects are over the top, which I'm inclined to agree with for reasons I've discussed here.

Lots of try hards at the moment and quite simply some of what's being discussed doesn't match up with what anybody is saying in the racing enthusiast community.

You know, I know and everyone on Gaf knows what your preferences are in the console space, that basically renders your argument moot.

 

[Unknown?]

Because it is, its just common sense. When it looks like this during summer

And this during spring

That doesn't negate the missing details though. Regardless, most of the comparisons in this thread, like 99% of them, haven't been 1:1 comparisons.

 

[SlimySnake]

Heisenberg007 @trees @seasons @godhelpme

 

[Insane Metal]

Because it is, its just common sense. When it looks like this during summer

And this during spring

I'll drive in the spring, thx

SlimySnake it looks great in the second and third gifs, but the thing is, it just has its moments. There shouldn't even be a discussion at this point. It should look better all the time with all the bells and whistles they said they would put. And it doesn't.

The first gif makes me nauseous with that ridiculously high FOV.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Because it is, its just common sense. When it looks like this during summer

And this during spring

You should use the same photo, across different seasons, to make your point.

But let's assume you're right and that these are the same tracks. The number of trees in both these images remains the same -- extremely low -- which was/is my main point. There are less environmental details and foliage/trees.

 

[Unknown?]

At least you've moved on from Starfield

You know, I know and everyone on Gaf knows what your preferences are in the console space, that basically renders your argument moot.

Does that mean the majority in this thread(or at least the ones keeping it active) are rendered moot? Most of the comparisons here aren't 1:1 and being argued by people we all know their preference.

The fact that it's this close should give those absolutists a clue.

 

[Negotiator101]

You should use similar photos to make your point.

But let's assume you're right and that these are the same tracks. The number of trees in both these images remains the same -- extremely low -- which was/is my main point. There are less environmental details and foliage/trees.

3D vs 2D

 

[Negotiator101]

Does that mean the majority in this thread(or at least the ones keeping it active) are rendered moot? Most of the comparisons here aren't 1:1 and being argued by people we all know their preference.

The fact that it's this close should give those absolutists a clue.

TURk1993.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Heisenberg007 @trees @seasons @godhelpme

You're posting these pointless GIFs instead of answering my questions and pointing out in the comparison screenshots I shared above where I was wrong.

Considering you haven't done that and won't do that, it renders the discussion moot. I'll end the conversation here then.

 

[Negotiator101]

You're posting these pointless GIFs instead of answering my questions and pointing out in the comparison screenshots I shared above where I was wrong.

Considering you haven't done that and won't do that, it renders the discussion moot. I'll end the conversation here then.

3D vs 2D

 

[Turk1993]

That doesn't negate the missing details though. Regardless, most of the comparisons in this thread, like 99% of them, haven't been 1:1 comparisons.

But you guys talk about stuf like trees and details from a compressed youtube footage in motion.

You should use similar photos to make your point.

But let's assume you're right and that these are the same tracks. The number of trees in both these images remains the same -- extremely low -- which was/is my main point. There are less environmental details and foliage/trees.

I was not gonna post pc comparisons here but this is just soo wrong what hes saying. The amount of trees and stuff is the same between PC and XSX anyways. I will do a Series X setting comparsion also later today if that makes you more happy.

 

[Unknown?]

3D vs 2D

I give the nod to Forza in this aspect but it's not a huge difference. Reminds me of GT4 how everyone was saying how the backgrounds(Grand Canyon, etc) were 3D sprites, not real 3D but it didn't really matter since it looked fantastic.

TURk1993.

Even his comparisons aren't perfect.

 

[SlimySnake]

I'll drive in the spring, thx

SlimySnake it looks great in the second and third gifs, but the thing is, it just has its moments. There shouldn't even be a discussion at this point. It should look better all the time with all the bells and whistles they said they would put. And it doesn't.

The first gif makes me nauseous with that ridiculously high FOV.

lol i thought you played GT7 in vr? That would be far more nauseous.

I love the sense of speed in the first gif. I guess i will play tonight and see if is that bad. It took me 2 minutes to turn off DC VR and never try another racing game again. i felt sick for an hour.

And yes, I agree. I have said it before that it should not even be close seeing as how this is a next gen only game. And yet it is. GT7 goes toe to toe at times, and thats disappointing. DF is discussing the downgrade right now and while I give them props for at least mentioning this in their direct, it shouldve been in the review. The OG lighting, trackside detail, and reflections wouldve been a clear win. If the XSX is holding them back then ok, release the non-downgraded version on PC. thats what ultra settings are for. to me, that is inexcusable and needs to be talked about more. probably doesnt belong in the thread, but now that elanaldebits is not the only one covering this, maybe we can have a thread about the massive fucking downgrade.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Man, come on Heis you're better than this. You're legitimately making a comparison about two completely different renderings of the same geographical location where there are TONS of differences in where buildings, billboards, side barriers etc are placed and you want to use those couple of pictures of different tree renderings.





My "problem" is that you're, and I think intentionally, using a dumb/juvenile argument to propagate a comparison by comparing literal apples to oranges here.



--


Alright, let's play it your way then ..


1. GT7 has flat PS3 style soupy mountains here where Forza is drawing actual geometry and crowds.

.

GT7 has lesser detailed barriers on the left and right and it's also missing a blimp.

Forza is drawing tons more geometry, farther draw distance on the hills and an actual 3D crowd here where GT7 looks barren by comparison.

Easy there champ, you don't have to go at it this hard

Lol, none of what you said is even true of your cherry picked stills. Nice!

 

[Mr Moose]

But you guys talk about stuf like trees and details from a compressed youtube footage in motion.


I was not gonna post pc comparisons here but this is just soo wrong what hes saying. The amount of trees and stuff is the same between PC and XSX anyways. I will do a Series X setting comparsion also later today if that makes you more happy.

Those lights aren't there on the real track, Forza loses this one!
I'm kidding, they both look great.

 

[Turk1993]

Heisenberg007 @trees @seasons @godhelpme

The sense of speed is incredible in this game as show in the first gif. Driveclub was the only game i had the same feeling of speed.

 

[Unknown?]

But you guys talk about stuf like trees and details from a compressed youtube footage in motion.

What I was mentioning was missing trees and such, but I was never claiming GT was superior in all details. My main point this whole thread is neither one has a clear advantage.

 

[Heisenberg007]

But you guys talk about stuf like trees and details from a compressed youtube footage in motion.


I was not gonna post pc comparisons here but this is just soo wrong what hes saying. The amount of trees and stuff is the same between PC and XSX anyways. I will do a Series X setting comparsion also later today if that makes you more happy.

If the amount of trees between PC and XSX are the same, then there's no need for taking the XSX images. That'd just be extra work for you for no reason.

Anyway, the argument wasn't that there is a difference in foliage and environment details between PC and XSX. It was in comparison with GT 7. There is already a comparison video that showed the difference between the two games.

Will there be other instances that would have better environmental details in FM than GT7? I'm sure there will be.

But the conversation started was specifically about that shared video (I've mentioned it multiple times in the thread). And so my point stands valid. At least in that particular video, there were instances where GT 7 had more environmental details than Forza Motorsport.

 

[Negotiator101]

I give the nod to Forza in this aspect but it's not a huge difference. Reminds me of GT4 how everyone was saying how the backgrounds(Grand Canyon, etc) were 3D sprites, not real 3D but it didn't really matter since it looked fantastic.

Even his comparisons aren't perfect.

It's gonna make a big difference with the lighting hitting a 3D compared to 2D tree that's for certain.

 

[Neo_game]

Even trees are not good looking in Forza at Lagune seca.


This guy is trashing Forza. I would be be nice if some one can fact check Le man as well. I think GT one looks better here as well:

 

[GHG]

The sense of speed is incredible in this game as show in the first gif. Driveclub was the only game i had the same feeling of speed.