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[DJ12]

so this turned to cherry picking on FM PC version and comparing it to PS4 game

Also I'm pretty sure replay mode is being used to show forza in a good light.

I played the game on ultra settings on my pc and reflections are really reduced during races. Also the car I used, an rs6 avent or whatever looked like absolute shite.

It's also funny when you move the camera in photomode and then when you stop it adds all the effects back in

 

[BigLee74]

Just tried some Forza and was quite unimpressed with the same old graphical issues. Low LOD AI cars in photomode, and some very low level background details in replays. Blobby trees is my technical term.

The first few races were quite unimpressive too, before a shift to some dusk and night racing that finally made me go 'ok, this looks good'.

The RT during racing is so subtle you might miss it, but it was cool to look out your window when you pass a car and see your (admittedly low res) car reflected on it - caused a few crashes . I'll probably end up turning it off though, and go for the full 4K instead.

Racing seemed great, and I guess that's the main thing.

 

[Sebmugi]

XSX photomode..

 

[Three]

Never been in a car on a bright day and it's that dark.

Black leather interior cars are usually pretty dark even on a bright day. I own a black leather interior E-class and it's even darker.

I'd say they did pretty well. What they're missing is high specular reflection, and that wasn't really a performant option on PS4/GTS but has been improved in PS5/GT7.

PS4/GTS

Real with door open

 

[SlimySnake]

Also I'm pretty sure replay mode is being used to show forza in a good light.

I played the game on ultra settings on my pc and reflections are really reduced during races. Also the car I used, an rs6 avent or whatever looked like absolute shite.

It's also funny when you move the camera in photomode and then when you stop it adds all the effects back in

No. All gifs I've posted are from YouTube comparison videos posted in this thread. The gif adamsapple posted of the hood reflections is from the xsx version.

Turk was posting gameplay comparisons from the pc version and stopped doing that because this thread is for the Xsx version.

 

[ShakenG]

XSX photomode..

Whats with the double rear wheel guard?

 

[BigLee74]

Whats with the double rear wheel guard?

Safety first - always double bag it!

 

[Insane Metal]

The infamous laguna seca corkscrew gives us a pretty good look at the trees and trackside detail comparison. GT7's trees stand out as lacking proper shadows and there is just more trackside detail in forza.

GT7 looks amazing in rain replays. I need to gif it.

Trees lacking shadows in GT7? I don't know if you're just trolling or being honest anymore

 

[Zuzu]

Forza is quite reminiscent of Quantum Break. Both games have impressive global illumination combined with soft, somewhat hazy or "soupy" IQ.

 

[SlimySnake]

Trees lacking shadows in GT7? I don't know if you're just trolling or being honest anymore

Self shadows. You can see this in witcher 3 and cyberpunk. The self shadowing only happens when you turn on ray tracing. Otherwise they take the appearance of this very plasticy looking effect that you see in GT7's trees here.

 

[Tripolygon]

You set yourself up my friend no one else Forza has significantly better tree's, stop making yourself look silly. Also your first paragraph really made me laugh as you're literally talking about yourself

You set yourself up to be a joke on this forum You've been at this fanboy shit for ages. Gotten banned for it many times and you're still at it. Time to grow up.

You'll be gaslighted now that you said "both have 3D trees" even when you did not and have explicitly mentioned multiple times that you did not.

You won't even get a logical response now. The conversation will just be intentionally derailed.

Oh I know. Like this idiot above who doesn't know how to read. I just don't suffer fools.

 

[Insane Metal]

Self shadows. You can see this in witcher 3 and cyberpunk. The self shadowing only happens when you turn on ray tracing. Otherwise they take the appearance of this very plasticy looking effect that you see in GT7's trees here.

Ohh ok then. Next time choose your words better.

 

[SlimySnake]

Ohh ok then. Next time choose your words better.

I did say trees themselves are lacking shadows, not that they dont cast shadows on track ;p

 

[adamsapple]

Safety first - always double bag it!

Jokes aside, don't do that in real life, the friction will break it apart.

You all know what I'm talking about

 

[TrebleShot]

Playing this on PC this morning.
Have 140hrs in GT7.

Laughable , absolutely laughable, doesn't come close to GT7 on visuals, handling.

The only thing going for it is menus.

Not saying it's terrible in general although the performance on pc is an absolute joke.

But they aren't in the same league whatsoever.

GT7 is superior in almost every facet.

Performance is making me wonder if I hit up steam refunds till it's fixed.

 

[Insane Metal]

Well. After all this time... I guess it's safe to say... which one looks better depends on a series of things and might come down to personal preference... but undoubtedly the more technically advanced game is Forza. Sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings but that's just the truth. More cars on track at the same time, lighting model is more advanced (even if it doesn't look better than GT at times), trees look better, some tracks have more detail, ingame RT (albeit very limited, but still - it's there).

The sad part is that the game came out unfinished and with several issues with the progression systems and some bugs here and there. But it has just released and GT7 wasn't in a very good state when it came out either.

 

[SlimySnake]

Forza is quite reminiscent of Quantum Break. Both games have impressive global illumination combined with soft, somewhat hazy or "soupy" IQ.

Starfield's GI implementation has the same soft look. personally i like it. In the next gen graphics thread, We were discussing the soft hazy look of FF16's cutscenes giving it a very soft cg look. I think more games need to embrace it. Though maybe not GT7 since it always goes for a more photorealistic look instead of a CG look.

Performance is making me wonder if I hit up steam refunds till it's fixed.

Unless they fix multithreading, the performance wont get better. And that would mean a complete redesign of the engine which is not happening.

Your best bet is that they fix the broken DLSS implementation in the upcoming months, but they are extremely single threaded on the CPU, and that kind of stuff is not getting fixed in months if they couldnt fix it in the last 6 years.

Turn off RT and see if it makes a difference. The CPU is so underutilized that adding RT calculations on top makes it even worse.

 

[Elysium44]

Performance is making me wonder if I hit up steam refunds till it's fixed.

I would, because with this developer's track record there is no guarantee there will be such a fix any time soon, if ever.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

Weird take, I think I prefer GT7 because they treat the camera like a human eye and not like an actual "camera". Like the rain drops on the screen, it's very artificial and a bit over the top. GT7 doesn't have to splash my screen with rain to tell me it's raining. When I'm walking in raining my eyes don't have dozens of little droplets on them....

Same goes with the overall colour presentation. Forza is nice but it looks like the world as viewed through a camera, like most games, whereas the presentation of GT7 looks closer to what I see with my own eyes.

Maybe hard to explain, GT7 just feels "natural" to look at whereas FM, while technically brilliant, looks like a video game.

Exactly. It's not like Polyphony couldn't add raidrops on our screens if they can inside the cockpits...it's more about the aesthetics they are going.

But if we're going there, Driveclub beats even Forza tbh. And that game is old as fuck.

 

[zephiross]

After playing for a few hours, I think this describe quite well how I feel about each games:

- FM is a product made by a compagny that make money from selling games.

- GT7 is a project made by people with true love for cars and racing who are trully passionate about the game they are making.

Forza just haven't been the same to me since FM5, while GT has evolved while keeping it's soul and flair. GT7 isn't perfect, but it'd just a better game in every way possible.

 

[Negotiator101]

You set yourself up to be a joke on this forum You've been at this fanboy shit for ages. Gotten banned for it many times and you're still at it. Time to grow up.

Oh I know. Like this idiot above who doesn't know how to read. I just don't suffer fools.

This is a short post for you, well done I thought was gonna have to read one your long drawn out ramblings while getting everything wrong Turk1993 says Hi

 

[analog_future]

After playing for a few hours, I think this describe quite well how I feel about each games:

- FM is a product made by a compagny that make money from selling games.

- GT7 is a project made by people with true love for cars and racing who are trully passionate about the game they are making.

Forza just haven't been the same to me since FM5, while GT has evolved while keeping it's soul and flair. GT7 isn't perfect, but it'd just a better game in every way possible.

We've reached the point in the thread where the Forza team is a bunch of greedy corporate zealots just trying to get your money and the GT7 team are just making games out of the goodness of their hearts.


Jesus fucking Christ lol

 

[BbMajor7th]

When discussions about racing games devolve into a debate over which has the better tree modeling rather than which has the better car modeling, you know something's gone awry.

 

[Negotiator101]

After playing for a few hours, I think this describe quite well how I feel about each games:

- FM is a product made by a compagny that make money from selling games.

- GT7 is a project made by people with true love for cars and racing who are trully passionate about the game they are making.

Forza just haven't been the same to me since FM5, while GT has evolved while keeping it's soul and flair. GT7 isn't perfect, but it'd just a better game in every way possible.

 

[BigLee74]

After playing for a few hours, I think this describe quite well how I feel about each games:

- FM is a product made by a compagny that make money from selling games.

- GT7 is a project made by people with true love for cars and racing who are trully passionate about the game they are making.

Forza just haven't been the same to me since FM5, while GT has evolved while keeping it's soul and flair. GT7 isn't perfect, but it'd just a better game in every way possible.

You sappy bastard. It's just 2 games that do things slightly different.

 

[adamsapple]

After playing for a few hours, I think this describe quite well how I feel about each games:

- FM is a product made by a compagny that make money from selling games.

- GT7 is a project made by people with true love for cars and racing who are trully passionate about the game they are making.

Forza just haven't been the same to me since FM5, while GT has evolved while keeping it's soul and flair. GT7 isn't perfect, but it'd just a better game in every way possible.

 

[zephiross]

We've reached the point in the thread where the Forza team is a bunch of greedy corporate zealots just trying to get your money and the GT7 team are just making games out of the goodness of their hearts.


Jesus fucking Christ lol

You are extrapolating quite a bit. All I said is that I can't feel the same passion transpirating though FM compared to GT7.

Yes really, GT7 is a better racing game.

 

[Blood Borne]

Damn, really poor showing by Xbox. Supposedly stronger hardware and Forza releasing 18 months later after GT7, yet still looks worse.

Either PS5 has superior architecture or Sony has superior devs.

 

[Reave]

Forza Motorsport doesn't have to be better than Gran Turismo 7 to be considered a good game.

 

[SlimySnake]

Well. After all this time... I guess it's safe to say... which one looks better depends on a series of things and might come down to personal preference... but undoubtedly the more technically advanced game is Forza. Sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings but that's just the truth. More cars on track at the same time, lighting model is more advanced (even if it doesn't look better than GT at times), trees look better, some tracks have more detail, ingame RT (albeit very limited, but still - it's there).

The sad part is that the game came out unfinished and with several issues with the progression systems and some bugs here and there. But it has just released and GT7 wasn't in a very good state when it came out either.

Yep. If anything, I hope we can have real conversations about what GT7 can learn from Forza's accomplishments and especially mistakes for their next entry. After all, its been 18 months since GT7 launch and they havent been able to patch in rt reflections during racing. Froza's RT downgrades are and should be a topic of their own, but I like the common sense sacrifices made to get at least something on track. GT7 runs at 90-100 fps in native 4k. Thats A LOT of headroom wasted on not just native 4k rendering but also for people who only have 60 fps screens. Just imagine what they couldve done with that 50% gpu power.

I also think PD needs to learn from Forza's missteps and get their CPU multithreading right so they dont have to make these bizarre cutbacks if they need to turn on RT. Forza looks amazing without RT reflections so I say focus on better lighting, better trackside detail, weather effects instead of RT reflections. They have 3-4 years to figure this out, but I really hope they dont make the same mistakes forza has made. A next gen only Forza game should be blowing away GT in every comparison but that doesnt seem to be the case and we have to point out its technical bullet points to get the point across at times. If GT8 comes out and we cant put these games side by side and immediately tell which one is better than they wouldve made the same mistakes as forza.

Detail >>> Pixels and/or RT. I want GT8 looking like the prerendered intro footage.

 

[MonkeyClaw36]

After playing for a few hours, I think this describe quite well how I feel about each games:

- FM is a product made by a compagny that make money from selling games.

- GT7 is a project made by people with true love for cars and racing who are trully passionate about the game they are making.

Forza just haven't been the same to me since FM5, while GT has evolved while keeping it's soul and flair. GT7 isn't perfect, but it'd just a better game in every way possible.

Yeah FM4 was the pinnacle. 5 and 6 were forgettable but fun. 7 was the closest to FM4 the franchise has been.
FM8 is an all time low.

 

[SlimySnake]

You are extrapolating quite a bit. All I said is that I can't feel the same passion transpirating though FM compared to GT7.

Watch their interviews. They are plenty passionate about cars. Hell, watch the crew creative director interview. the guy lives, eats and shits cars and hes making his car games for ubisoft. Passion is not something that these guys are lacking. Talent, priorities, hardware, maybe, but hard to blame passion. the guys at the top wouldnt have taken 6 years to push this game out if they werent passionate. they wouldve continued making soulless cash grabs every two years. Phil and Turn10 leadership made the right decision to give this team time, but it didnt really pan out in all aspects. Still, the upgrade from the last game is substantial and there is no denying that.

+

They built their tracks from the ground up, their driving physics from the ground up, foliage from ground up, implemented damage physics, weather, dynamic time of day, multiplayer penalty systems, lighting systems and ALL materials from the ground up. It is not your soulless yearly incremental upgrade.

The jump is there because the passion was there, but if you like GT7 more thats fine too. I never liked the Forza series either but credit where credit is due and they have put a lot of effort into rebooting the series.

 

[TrebleShot]

Starfield's GI implementation has the same soft look. personally i like it. In the next gen graphics thread, We were discussing the soft hazy look of FF16's cutscenes giving it a very soft cg look. I think more games need to embrace it. Though maybe not GT7 since it always goes for a more photorealistic look instead of a CG look.


Unless they fix multithreading, the performance wont get better. And that would mean a complete redesign of the engine which is not happening.

Your best bet is that they fix the broken DLSS implementation in the upcoming months, but they are extremely single threaded on the CPU, and that kind of stuff is not getting fixed in months if they couldnt fix it in the last 6 years.

Turn off RT and see if it makes a difference. The CPU is so underutilized that adding RT calculations on top makes it even worse.

I would, because with this developer's track record there is no guarantee there will be such a fix any time soon, if ever.

Cheers I'm fairly new to PC gaming (1yr almost) so learning a lot.

I was absolutely shocked I'm on top end hardware and I'm seeing dips to 36fps in some zones on tracks.

This is a pretty pathetic showing in all honesty.

Polyphony shits this out over a weekend I believe it's taken them 6 years to develop it.

 

[Negotiator101]

You are extrapolating quite a bit. All I said is that I can't feel the same passion transpirating though FM compared to GT7.



Yes really, GT7 is a better racing game.

That's great but didn't have to write that nonsense about Forza being a cash grab, T10 have a tremendous amount passion for these games.

 

[TrebleShot]

Watch their interviews. They are plenty passionate about cars. Hell, watch the crew creative director interview. the guy lives, eats and shits cars and hes making his car games for ubisoft. Passion is not something that these guys are lacking. Talent, priorities, hardware, maybe, but hard to blame passion. the guys at the top wouldnt have taken 6 years to push this game out if they werent passionate. they wouldve continued making soulless cash grabs every two years. Phil and Turn10 leadership made the right decision to give this team time, but it didnt really pan out in all aspects. Still, the upgrade from the last game is substantial and there is no denying that.

+

They built their tracks from the ground up, their driving physics from the ground up, foliage from ground up, implemented damage physics, weather, dynamic time of day, multiplayer penalty systems, lighting systems and ALL materials from the ground up. It is not your soulless yearly incremental upgrade.

The jump is there because the passion was there, but if you like GT7 more thats fine too. I never liked the Forza series either but credit where credit is due and they have put a lot of effort into rebooting the series.

Unless you're obtusely stubborn once the new game sheen wares off you'll be back saying how disappointing it is.

 

[GHG]

They built their tracks from the ground up, their driving physics from the ground up, foliage from ground up, implemented damage physics, weather, dynamic time of day, multiplayer penalty systems, lighting systems and ALL materials from the ground up. It is not your soulless yearly incremental upgrade.

At this point I can only conclude that you're trolling sir.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

After playing for a few hours, I think this describe quite well how I feel about each games:

- FM is a product made by a compagny that make money from selling games.

- GT7 is a project made by people with true love for cars and racing who are trully passionate about the game they are making.

Forza just haven't been the same to me since FM5, while GT has evolved while keeping it's soul and flair. GT7 isn't perfect, but it'd just a better game in every way possible.

Makes sense. That certainly explains why FM costs $70 and has in game currency MTX meanwhile GT7 is free and has no in game currency MTX. They make GT7 solely out of passion and the kindness of their hearts.

 

[SlimySnake]

Unless you're obtusely stubborn once the new game sheen wares off you'll be back saying how disappointing it is.

I am stubborn but i am pretty good at not letting fancy graphics cloud my judgement of the game. I have been stanning for starfields visuals for over a month now, but i think the game is a massive fucking disappointment. i think HFW and cyberpunk are two of the best looking games ever made, and I seriously dislike both games. Far more than starfield even. conversely, zelda looks like dogshit and its my goty and probably the best game ive played since rdr2 in 2018.

like i said, i dont even like forza. or forza horizon. I am just pointing out the obvious visual differences.

Cheers I'm fairly new to PC gaming (1yr almost) so learning a lot.

I was absolutely shocked I'm on top end hardware and I'm seeing dips to 36fps in some zones on tracks.

This is a pretty pathetic showing in all honesty.

Polyphony shits this out over a weekend I believe it's taken them 6 years to develop it.

thats bizarre. whats your CPU? Which GPU?

if you have a zen 2 or zen 3 CPU turn off RT. XSX runs at native 4k 60 fps with RT off but uses different settings. check the settings Alex found and see if you get better results.

 

[DJ12]

We've reached the point in the thread where the Forza team is a bunch of greedy corporate zealots just trying to get your money and the GT7 team are just making games out of the goodness of their hearts.


Jesus fucking Christ lol

You're right of course, gamepass means they aren't even going to make that much money from it anymore.

 

[SlimySnake]

At this point I can only conclude that you're trolling sir.

Disappointing to get this from you. Not gonna lie. Call me whatever you want, but dont accuse me of trolling.

Go watch their developer interview with Digital Foundry. They rebuilt everything i listed from the ground up. Everything.

 

[BigLee74]

Whilst PC owners appear to have it a bit rough, it's largely excellent on the XSX. It's a huge step up from all previous Forzas graphically, and I have absolutely no doubt it will continue to be polished, improved and grow as a game.

That's just the way things appear to be these days unfortunately. Games are so big and complex, very little ships day one complete!

 

[DJ12]

That's great but didn't have to write that nonsense about Forza being a cash grab, T10 have a tremendous amount passion for these games.

So much passion they outsource modelling to the Royal School for the Blind.

 

[GHG]

Disappointing to get this from you. Not gonna lie. Call me whatever you want, but dont accuse me of trolling.

Go watch their developer interview with Digital Foundry. They rebuilt everything i listed from the ground up. Everything.

They can say what they want in terms of PR/marketing but there are plenty of examples in the final product that prove they have not in-fact built most of those elements you mentioned "from the ground up".

For a start, if they did for the physics engine then there would be no need to impose a 60fps lock for multiplayer on PC.

 

[Reave]

Unless you're obtusely stubborn once the new game sheen wares off you'll be back saying how disappointing it is.

Since when was having a different opinion a sign of obtuse stubbornness?

 

[systemr123]

Damn, really poor showing by Xbox. Supposedly stronger hardware and Forza releasing 18 months later after GT7, yet still looks worse.

Either PS5 has superior architecture or Sony has superior devs.

 

[Bogroll]

Black leather interior cars are usually pretty dark even on a bright day. I own a black leather interior E-class and it's even darker.

I'd say they did pretty well. What they're missing is high specular reflection, and that wasn't really a performant option on PS4/GTS but has been improved in PS5/GT7.

PS4/GTS

Real with door open

I wasn't on about the leather I was on about being able to see switches etc and being honest I thought it was Anthracite not Black. But yes it does look good.

 

[zephiross]

Makes sense. That certainly explains why FM costs $70 and has in game currency MTX meanwhile GT7 is free and has no in game currency MTX. They make GT7 solely out of passion and the kindness of their hearts.

Well in the end you have to choose between free cars and tracks and optionnal microtransactions, or no microtransaction and paywalled additionnal cars.

GT7 (launch) price with all DLC included : 70€
FM Ultimate edition launch price (all DLC included) : 100€

 

[Negotiator101]

They can say what they want in terms of PR/marketing but there are plenty of examples in the final product that prove they have not in-fact built most of those elements you mentioned "from the ground up".

For a start, if they did for the physics engine then there would be no need to impose a 60fps lock for multiplayer on PC.

Surely the PC version can do higher framerates right? So it couldn't be physics related.

 

[SlimySnake]

They can say what they want in terms of PR/marketing but there are plenty of examples in the final product that prove they have not in-fact built most of those elements you mentioned "from the ground up".

For a start if they did for the physics engine then there would be no need to impose a 60fps lock for multiplayer on PC.

I mean if you want to ignore what the developers are saying then thats fine. Just dont accuse me of trolling when im literally reporting facts verbatim. They sat down after shipping the last game to discuss what they want to do with a next gen forza, and rebuilt the materials for interiors and literally ALL shaders, built a new weather system, a new dynamic time of day system, new sky system, new physics system and then found that because of their new physics system being so accurate, they were running into bumps and other cracks in the tracks that they didnt even notice before so they had to rebuild ALL of their tracks.

 

[Naru]

Washed out or not, FM has way more track detail, it's not even close.

Edit: I added "it's not even close" to make it more spicy.