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[SlimySnake]

Whilst PC owners appear to have it a bit rough, it's largely excellent on the XSX. It's a huge step up from all previous Forzas graphically, and I have absolutely no doubt it will continue to be polished, improved and grow as a game.

That's just the way things appear to be these days unfortunately. Games are so big and complex, very little ships day one complete!

Yeah, the console version is fine. Starfield is by far the least buggy game out of all bethesda studios too. The biggest issue is the PC releases of these games shipping with broken DLSS or no DLSS and absolutely trash tier CPU scaling. But this isnt exactly a turn10 thing, everyone this year has dropped the ball on PC ports. Dead Space, Forspoken, Hogwarts, TLOU, RE4, Star Wars, Starfield and now Forza have all shipped with either massive performance issues or bizarre stuttering and crashing like i had with RE4 and TLOU whenever it ran out of memory.. Stuff that never shouldve passed the QA stage. At least, Hogwarts, TLOU, RE4 are now fixed, star wars and dead space are still broken. It's clear the console versions received the most love and optimization.

 

[GHG]

Surely the PC version can do higher framerates right? So it couldn't be physics related.

The whole reason is physics related.




This issue has been consistent across all of their games, both Motorsport and horizon. It's well documented on the Forza forums as well.

Also with the exception of a handful of new entries (with 4 out of the 6 new ones being related to tire degradation) the UDP data is identical to previous Forza games so there's little doubt now that they have wholesale carried over the physics engine from previous games and just made tweaks where they felt necessary:

UDP telemetry packet details

Hi, Would it be possible to have the UDP data packet format published? A big part of the game for me is playing ‘race engineer’ and I don’t want to have to spend (many) hours figuring out what the 331 bytes per packet a…

forums.forza.net

The whole "from the ground up" thing is smoke and mirrors.

 

[Elysium44]

Disappointing to get this from you. Not gonna lie. Call me whatever you want, but dont accuse me of trolling.

Go watch their developer interview with Digital Foundry. They rebuilt everything i listed from the ground up. Everything.

They lie, man. They've pulled the wool over your eyes. They're conmen. They lied about the AI being revamped too but it's the same dogshit as their previous games. They have no shame. Hopefully this will be their last game, unless the top people are all fired and some actual talented, serious and honest people replace them.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

Well in the end you have to choose between free cars and tracks and optionnal microtransactions, or no microtransaction and paywalled additionnal cars.

GT7 (launch) price with all DLC included : 70€
FM Ultimate edition launch price (all DLC included) : 100€

So you have an in game economy built around MTX and a game with paid DLC, both retailing for $70.

I fail to see where one is created to make money and the other is purely out of passion. Gameplay and content wise they're both clearly made by people passionate about racing and cars.

 

[GHG]

I mean if you want to ignore what the developers are saying then thats fine. Just dont accuse me of trolling when im literally reporting facts verbatim. They sat down after shipping the last game to discuss what they want to do with a next gen forza, and rebuilt the materials for interiors and literally ALL shaders, built a new weather system, a new dynamic time of day system, new sky system, new physics system and then found that because of their new physics system being so accurate, they were running into bumps and other cracks in the tracks that they didnt even notice before so they had to rebuild ALL of their tracks.

I'm sorry, but you can't try to put yourself forward and some critical thinking intelligent mind but then be as impressionable as you are proving to be here with regard to their marketing spiel. That doesn't make any sense, hence me saying that you were trolling, because that actually would have been the best scenario in this case. At least then we could laugh it off.

There is now plenty of evidence out there that proves this game was not built from the ground up in all the ways they say it was. Anyone who has spent a reasonable amount of time playing previous entries in the series and discussing them on the Forza forums can see that.

 

[adamsapple]

 

[crackajack]

Both look good enough. Racing games are already there for quite some time now. There are choices like NfS Unbound where I don't know if I could stomach that style or maybe even learn to like it and there is shrill colors like in Dirt or Onrush that is a bit too much. But realistic racing games better become better in other areas than trying to show off with graphics. Especially wasting hw budget on RT this gen, on AMD hw, is just pure nonsense, when specular maps do the job just fine for a fraction of the cost.
While crashing can't be the goal, having beamng physics in there would help make those undesired moments feel much more impactful, not just bonk like in any other ancient arcade racer. And or upping the physics (compete with the PC-Sims) and (non stoic/dumb) AI systems. Those should be the areas where people should argue their favorites.

 

[GHG]

Plenty of car models are the same, some of the tracks are the same, the AI is the same, the data that the physics engine outputs is the same, the replay system is the same, the photo mode system is the same (they didn't even take the new version from the horizon series), the vinyl editor is the same, need I go on SlimySnake ?

You've been duped man.

 

[SlimySnake]

They lie, man. They've pulled the wool over your eyes. They're conmen. They lied about the AI being revamped too but it's the same dogshit as their previous games. They have no shame. Hopefully this will be their last game, unless the top people are all fired and some actual talented, serious and honest people replace them.

I am not just taking their word for it. The comparisons from the previous games have been posted here numerous times. this is a massive generational leap over their last game for everyone to see. So when people start saying there isnt, that this is a soulless cash grab or that the devs are not passionate when they literally spent the last six years adding all these features is absolutely ridiculous.

Even SuperGT said that the felt the physics have been overhauled and he doesnt even like the game that much. Having poor AI doesnt mean they didnt add 3D foliage, enhanced weather, RT, 3D crowds, way more trackside detail, SSGI, destruction and new physics. Stuff that are there for everyone to see. Its entirely possible that they still managed to create a bad game after adding all these features, but thats not what I am arguing.

 

[GHG]

Both look good enough. Racing games are already there for quite some time now. There are choices like NfS Unbound where I don't know if I could stomach that style or maybe even learn to like it and there is shrill colors like in Dirt or Onrush that is a bit too much. But realistic racing games better become better in other areas than trying to show off with graphics. Especially wasting hw budget on RT this gen, on AMD hw, is just pure nonsense, when specular maps do the job just fine for a fraction of the cost.
While crashing can't be the goal, having beamng physics in there would help make those undesired moments feel much more impactful, not just bonk like in any other ancient arcade racer. And or upping the physics (compete with the PC-Sims) and (non stoic/dumb) AI systems. Those should be the areas where people should argue their favorites.

When something is rebuilt "from the ground up" this is what the outcome looks like:

 

[Unknown?]

Yep. If anything, I hope we can have real conversations about what GT7 can learn from Forza's accomplishments and especially mistakes for their next entry. After all, its been 18 months since GT7 launch and they havent been able to patch in rt reflections during racing. Froza's RT downgrades are and should be a topic of their own, but I like the common sense sacrifices made to get at least something on track. GT7 runs at 90-100 fps in native 4k. Thats A LOT of headroom wasted on not just native 4k rendering but also for people who only have 60 fps screens. Just imagine what they couldve done with that 50% gpu power.

I also think PD needs to learn from Forza's missteps and get their CPU multithreading right so they dont have to make these bizarre cutbacks if they need to turn on RT. Forza looks amazing without RT reflections so I say focus on better lighting, better trackside detail, weather effects instead of RT reflections. They have 3-4 years to figure this out, but I really hope they dont make the same mistakes forza has made. A next gen only Forza game should be blowing away GT in every comparison but that doesnt seem to be the case and we have to point out its technical bullet points to get the point across at times. If GT8 comes out and we cant put these games side by side and immediately tell which one is better than they wouldve made the same mistakes as forza.

Detail >>> Pixels and/or RT. I want GT8 looking like the prerendered intro footage.

It largely does. It just adds some extra effects over the top and fancy camera work to make it look better than gameplay.

 

[GHG]

Even SuperGT said that the felt the physics have been overhauled and he doesnt even like the game that much.

No he doesn't:



Transcript:

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

Physics are most definitely retooled from previous Forza games. I didn't play much of FM6 or 7 and even I could immediately tell that upon first playing it. Progressing through the first few cups has only reinforced that, especially when you start racing in a downpour or on a wet track or with slower cars.

 

[Elysium44]

I am not just taking their word for it. The comparisons from the previous games have been posted here numerous times. this is a massive generational leap over their last game for everyone to see. So when people start saying there isnt, that this is a soulless cash grab or that the devs are not passionate when they literally spent the last six years adding all these features is absolutely ridiculous.

Even SuperGT said that the felt the physics have been overhauled and he doesnt even like the game that much. Having poor AI doesnt mean they didnt add 3D foliage, enhanced weather, RT, 3D crowds, way more trackside detail, SSGI, destruction and new physics. Stuff that are there for everyone to see. Its entirely possible that they still managed to create a bad game after adding all these features, but thats not what I am arguing.

That video clip proves what? As has been said before, FM7 itself is a big downgrade graphically on FM 5 and 6. Compare 2023 to FM5 and it certainly won't look like so much of a 'generational leap'. It's more of a generational inching forwards. For six years and considering how much massively more capable the Xbox Series X is on paper than the original Xbox One, it's not very impressive.

Also the clip there compares an overcast day with a sunny one so of course the latter looks better. Even then, it doesn't look much better.

 

[SlimySnake]

Plenty of car models are the same, some of the tracks are the same, the AI is the same, the data that the physics engine outputs is the same, the replay system is the same, the photo mode system is the same (they didn't even take the new version from the horizon series), the vinyl editor is the same, need I go on SlimySnake ?

You've been duped man.

I never said car models, AI, replay system photo mode and vinyl editor were overhauled though? neither did they. Why are you listing things that werent overhauled to say that I was duped?

This is what I said.

They built their tracks from the ground up, their driving physics from the ground up, foliage from ground up, implemented damage physics, weather, dynamic time of day, multiplayer penalty systems, lighting systems and ALL materials from the ground up. It is not your soulless yearly incremental upgrade.

Again, watch the video. They literally point out why they had to rebuild all the tracks. The new physics system exposed flaws with their tracks and they do to go back and start from scratch. Did they throw out everything? Probably not but they did not phone in this game because they are lacking passion lmao. Their shaders had to be rebuilt because of the new lighting system. The materials were redone because the artists said we are rebuilding everything to look as next gen as possible so they rebuilt their entire material library.

And again, you can SEE this. They didnt lie about 3D trees, they are there. 3D crowds are there. new damage system is there. dynamic time of day is there. new lighting system is there. new GT sports style multiplayer systems are there. Al of these were not in the last game.

Did they lie about ray tracing? sure. i made a thread about it. You cant get downgrades past me. But the rest? My eyes see a massive difference from the previous game. I have posted that gif a million times in this thread now. Turk has posted several comparisons showing the same thing. How did we go from GT7 looks better to Forza 7 looks better and Turn10 are lying passionless crooks?

Here is what they said about the game.

Forza Motorsport has been built from the ground up to showcase the Xbox Series X|S consoles. The accuracy of our overhauled physics, the beauty of our cars and tracks, our new dynamic time of day, advanced car damage, and real time ray tracing on track lead to a generational leap in immersion. The all-new Forza Motorsport is the most technically advanced racing game ever made.

Fundamental to Forza Motorsport is our fully dynamic time of day system, which brings tracks to life in stunning detail and like weather, it will be available on every track. Changes in time of day alter ambient temperatures, which, in turn, impacts the track surface temperatures. These track temperature changes will affect the grip of your car, as does rubbering in and weather. These new simulation details add further depth, drama, and dynamics to the racing experience.

We've completely overhauled the core driving experience to take advantage of the power of the Xbox Series consoles. This includes a 48 times improvement in the fidelity of our physics simulation. Based on your feedback, we've introduced new features like tire and fuel management, multiple tire compounds, and new in-depth car building to create the ultimate racing playset. This is all brought to life at the trackside pits, where advanced materials and shaders paired with ray tracing bring out incredible detail in the gold heat wrap, anodized aluminum, and carbon fiber. Ray tracing especially shines on engine bays with their complex self-reflection.

if you disagree and want to point out where they lied, be my guest. That is between you and Turn10. Not me and you.

 

[Turk1993]

Plenty of car models are the same, some of the tracks are the same, the AI is the same, the data that the physics engine outputs is the same, the replay system is the same, the photo mode system is the same (they didn't even take the new version from the horizon series), the vinyl editor is the same, need I go on SlimySnake ?

You've been duped man.

Car models are the same with some of them redone and upgraded with more polygons but shaders are massively improved on all cars, The tracks are all upgraded compared to the FM7 with trees and foliage that shit on anything before it, The physics engine is massivly improved aloneside with the wheels support and they have improved other things like multiplayer, pit stop,.... Not the mention the dynamic tod and weather on all tracks at this quality. I played every Forza Motorsport game and will this is the one with the most bugs and smaller single player carreer. The main points of a racing game has massively improved over its predecessor. The driving, the graphics, the sounds and the physics shits on FM7. And i already told my opinion how i felt about the downgrade and shitty upgrade system. Im not saying its perfect or they delivered what they promised completely. But the base of the game is solid asf you can't deny that, its a massive improvement over FM7.

No he doesn't:



Transcript:

Just play FM7 and hop on FM (2023) in the same car and track combo and tell me if its improved or not.

That video clip proves what? As has been said before, FM7 itself is a big downgrade graphically on FM 5 and 6. Compare 2023 to FM5 and it certainly won't look like so much of a 'generational leap'. It's more of a generational inching forwards. For six years and considering how much massively more capable the Xbox Series X is on paper than the original Xbox One, it's not very impressive.

FM5 had static tod, no weather, 2d carboard crowds, low rez textures, baked in hard shadows and you think its comparable with FM (2023).

 

[Turk1993]

I never said car models, AI, replay system photo mode and vinyl editor were overhauled though? neither did they. Why are you listing things that werent overhauled to say that I was duped?

This is what I said.



Again, watch the video. They literally point out why they had to rebuild all the tracks. The new physics system exposed flaws with their tracks and they do to go back and start from scratch. Did they throw out everything? Probably not but they did not phone in this game because they are lacking passion lmao. Their shaders had to be rebuilt because of the new lighting system. The materials were redone because the artists said we are rebuilding everything to look as next gen as possible so they rebuilt their entire material library.

And again, you can SEE this. They didnt lie about 3D trees, they are there. 3D crowds are there. new damage system is there. dynamic time of day is there. new lighting system is there. new GT sports style multiplayer systems are there. Al of these were not in the last game.

Did they lie about ray tracing? sure. i made a thread about it. You cant get downgrades past me. But the rest? My eyes see a massive difference from the previous game. I have posted that gif a million times in this thread now. Turk has posted several comparisons showing the same thing. How did we go from GT7 looks better to Forza 7 looks better and Turn10 are lying passionless crooks?

Here is what they said about the game.


if you disagree and want to point out where they lied, be my guest. That is between you and Turn10. Not me and you.

Just because there was a downgrade people are shitting on everything in this game. The base of the game is solid asf, the graphics, sound and physics are top notch and a clear upgrade over FM7. LIterally you see it and feel the upgrades over previous Forza games and yet people act like its the same thing.

 

[GHG]

I never said car models, AI, replay system photo mode and vinyl editor were overhauled though? neither did they. Why are you listing things that werent overhauled to say that I was duped?

This is what I said.



Again, watch the video. They literally point out why they had to rebuild all the tracks. The new physics system exposed flaws with their tracks and they do to go back and start from scratch. Did they throw out everything? Probably not but they did not phone in this game because they are lacking passion lmao. Their shaders had to be rebuilt because of the new lighting system. The materials were redone because the artists said we are rebuilding everything to look as next gen as possible so they rebuilt their entire material library.

And again, you can SEE this. They didnt lie about 3D trees, they are there. 3D crowds are there. new damage system is there. dynamic time of day is there. new lighting system is there. new GT sports style multiplayer systems are there. Al of these were not in the last game.

Did they lie about ray tracing? sure. i made a thread about it. You cant get downgrades past me. But the rest? My eyes see a massive difference from the previous game. I have posted that gif a million times in this thread now. Turk has posted several comparisons showing the same thing. How did we go from GT7 looks better to Forza 7 looks better and Turn10 are lying passionless crooks?

Here is what they said about the game.


if you disagree and want to point out where they lied, be my guest. That is between you and Turn10. Not me and you.

I quite literally linked you to evidence that shows they haven't rebuilt their tracks and physics from the ground up.

If you want to waste your time writing paragraphs defending the lies that you've been susceptible to then that's your business.

Just play FM7 and hop on FM (2023) in the same car and track combo and tell me if its improved or not.

Just because something is improved it doesn't make it "rebuilt from the ground up". You can quite literally improve something incrementally via a patch and it doesn't make it "from the ground up".

All the community are asking for in this case is a bit of honesty.

 

[Zuzu]

No he doesn't:



Transcript:

He's far above me with regards to his understanding and expertise in real life racing and sim racing but I have to disagree with him. The handling model definitely has the familiar Forza DNA but it feels substantially better than Forza 7. I believe I finished the career mode of Forza 7 (just the first playthrough) last year so that game is fairly fresh in my mind. This Forza Motorsport is a significant step up in car handling and "feel" over F7.

 

[GHG]

SEGAvangelist why don't you articulate yourself instead of going around the forum indiscriminately spamming my posts with "empathy" reactions:

 

[Turk1993]

I quite literally linked you to evidence that shows they haven't rebuilt their tracks and physics from the ground up.

If you want to waste your time writing paragraphs defending the lies that you've been susceptible to then that's your business.

I already saw that, but what you fail to release is that those tracks are scanned and built before the SPA changes happend in RL. You think they build tracks in 3 months? They probably already scanned the track years back before the new changes happend. Just see Catalunya, it has the new updated version. And if they wanted to completely reusing the maps they would not let Nordshleife and other important tracks out the list with this tiny track list. You just see some random post on forum and assume everything about this game is a lie.

Just because something is improved it doesn't make it "rebuilt from the ground up". You can quite literally improve something incrementally via a patch and it doesn't make it "from the ground up".

All the community are asking for in this case is a bit of honesty.

But if you play it you can feel lots of improvements, those are not just some tweaks. And SuperGT review was a reall let down for me because he complained in his other video about wheel physics while playing in normal steering mode. Then at the and he tried the sim steering and said yeah its feel a bit better and sharper. I was like bruh you supposed to try that shit out on your first go.

 

[Turk1993]

SEGAvangelist why don't you articulate yourself instead of going around the forum indiscriminately spamming my posts with "empathy" reactions:

Oh i got someone better who is putting laughing emoji in all my posts

 

[SEGAvangelist]

SEGAvangelist why don't you articulate yourself instead of going around the forum indiscriminately spamming my posts with "empathy" reactions:

I just really feel for you.

 

[adamsapple]

Oh i got someone better who is putting laughing emoji in all my posts

Hey at least your posts make him laugh, mine just seem to make him sad.

 

[GHG]

I already saw that, but what you fail to release is that those tracks are scanned and built before the SPA changes happend in RL. You think they build tracks in 3 months? They probably already scanned the track years back before the new changes happend. Just see Catalunya, it has the new updated version. And if they wanted to completely reusing the maps they would not let Nordshleife and other important tracks out the list with this tiny track list. You just see some random post on forum and assume everything about this game is a lie.


But if you play it you can feel lots of improvements, those are not just some tweaks. And SuperGT review was a reall let down for me because he complained in his other video about wheel physics while playing in normal steering mode. Then at the and he tried the sim steering and said yeah its feel a bit better and sharper. I was like bruh you supposed to try that shit out on your first go.

The thing is that it becomes evident that they are using old scans for tracks when the new game lacks up to date details/layouts/etc. Countless other sims (ACC, RF2, Automobilista 2) have managed to get the updated Spa in their game over the last 2/3 years, so why is it that a brand new "from the ground up" version of Forza is using some ghetto version of spa?

Regarding Super GT and the wheel, I'm of the opinion that the game should automatically switch you over to sim steering when a wheel is detected. There's also the issue where the default wheel settings for the game are now well documented as being awful. Dead ones are baked into the default wheel settings, which everyone knows is a big no-no.

So the question becomes who is testing these games during development and giving them feedback? Because there are certain things happening from a UX perspective that are easily preventable.

I just really feel for you.

Feelings mutual my man, especially when you clearly lack the maturity to articulate your thoughts so need to resort to childish antics.

 

[SlimySnake]

SEGAvangelist why don't you articulate yourself instead of going around the forum indiscriminately spamming my posts with "empathy" reactions:

Maybe because when someone takes the time to converse with you, you call it a waste of time.

If you want to waste your time writing paragraphs defending the lies that you've been susceptible to then that's your business.

No he doesn't:



Transcript:

I stand corrected. But I got the impression from his review video that it was an overhaul after hearing him talk about the improvements to curbs physics immediately after your timestamp.

I quite literally linked you to evidence that shows they haven't rebuilt their tracks and physics from the ground up.

you need to watch that video. They pointed out exactly why they had to redesign the tracks. I dont know why you refuse to watch it. But i will keep repeating it. Their old tracks were no good because they had extra bumps and oddities that created problems when simply driving. You dont notice it because they have fixed those oddities by redesigning the whole thing. The last thing you want is people posting memes of driving a car that hits a bump and goes off flying. people are already making fun of their replays with flying cars.

 

[Blood Borne]

Also, let's not forget get that GT7 is a cross gen game. From a technical perspective, it's a remastered GT Sport.

Forza on the other hand, is a full next gen game with supposedly next gen engine. Quite disappointing.

 

[Elysium44]

FM5 had static tod, no weather, 2d carboard crowds, low rez textures, baked in hard shadows and you think its comparable with FM (2023).

Because FM5 had fewer features and cars on screen (max of 8) it was able to do some things very well. FM7 (24 cars on screen, variable weather) did a lot of things averagely because it had to cut back on graphical detail as a compromise. That's my point. Comparing a dull weather race from FM7 against a bright sunny one from FM2023 is not proof of some generational leap. And again, the crowds are moot because the FM5-7 crowds looked 'good enough' while racing. FM2023 has 3D crowds, but overall looks to have barely moved the needle graphically. And textures? FM5-7 had better quality, higher resolution road and grass textures than FM2023 does - this was shown in some screenshot comparisons.

 

[Porticus]

No he doesn't:



Transcript:

Do you really want to continue arguing with someone that simply lies saying that someone (SuperGT) said something completely different from the truth.

 

[Turk1993]

The thing is that it becomes evident that they are using old scans for tracks when the new game lacks up to date details/layouts/etc. Countless other sims (ACC, RF2, Automobilista 2) have managed to get the updated Spa in their game over the last 2/3 years, so why is it that a brand new "from the ground up" version of Forza is using some ghetto version of spa?

They update over time, maybe FM gonna do the same. And we don't know when T10 rescanned the track, maybe other devs rescanned them after T10 who knows. And the SPA in FM7 was also laserscanned, now its more accurate and the the trackside are also updated. I will make a comparison for you later on.

Regarding Super GT and the wheel, I'm of the opinion that the game should automatically switch you over to sim steering when a wheel is detected. There's also the issue where the default wheel settings for the game are now well documented as being awful. Dead ones are baked into the default wheel settings, which everyone knows is a big no-no.

So the question becomes who is testing these games during development and giving them feedback? Because there are certain things happening from a UX perspective that are easily preventable.

With this i agree completely, those are simple things that should't be a issue.

Because FM5 had fewer features and cars on screen (max of 8) it was able to do some things very well. FM7 (24 cars on screen, variable weather) did a lot of things averagely because it had to cut back on graphical detail as a compromise. That's my point. Comparing a dull weather race from FM7 against a bright sunny one from FM2023 is not proof of some generational leap. And again, the crowds are moot because the FM5-7 crowds looked 'good enough' while racing. FM2023 has 3D crowds, but overall looks to have barely moved the needle graphically. And textures? FM5-7 had better quality, higher resolution road and grass textures than FM2023 does - this was shown in some screenshot comparisons.

You can compare FM5 vs FM (2023) and FM 2023 still will look generationaly better with all the other improvement like more grid and tod/weather. And i compared it in different tracks and weather already in the next gen thread. The textures where sharper in FM7 but not better, they where not accurate and stretched out. And FM (2023) has pom on lots of surface including grass which is just flat in all racing games with some grass sprites. I will post some picture of FM (2023) and want you to go to the same location and take the same pics in FM5. See if its generationally better or not.

 

[Elysium44]

I will post some picture of FM (2023) and want you to go to the same location and take the same pics in FM5. See if its generationally better or not.

Okay, could be interesting. I will assume FM2023 will be better of course. Generationally better is more subjective.

 

[SlimySnake]

Do you really want to continue arguing with someone that simply lies saying that someone (SuperGT) said something completely different from the truth.

Nah, I had no problem admitting i was wrong about superGT saying it was overhauled. i just remembered it incorrectly because he spends the next 2 minutes going over how the physics were improved over the curbs.

 

[GHG]

Do you really want to continue arguing with someone that simply lies saying that someone (SuperGT) said something completely different from the truth.

To be honest, no, which is why I'm leaving it.

I've made my points, provided supporting evidence where necessary and all that's resulted in is the regurgitation of Turn 10's lies along with the creation of new lies. It's quite telling.

Cat's well and truly out the bag now anyway.

 

[Zuzu]

Starfield's GI implementation has the same soft look. personally i like it. In the next gen graphics thread, We were discussing the soft hazy look of FF16's cutscenes giving it a very soft cg look. I think more games need to embrace it. Though maybe not GT7 since it always goes for a more photorealistic look instead of a CG look.

Yeah, I really like the soft cg look as well in a lot of games but I'm not sure I love it in a racing game tbh. I love the look in games like Uncharted 4 and like you mentioned it looks awesome in FF16. But for non-cinematic games like Forza I think I prefer the realism approach. It's kind of like watching the news or sports on TV. I want the news to look realistic, not cinematic. But I want movies to look cinematic and not realistic. But that's just me. I do hope we see a global illumination system like Forza's in Gran Turismo 8 (but with Gran Turismo's realism artstyle)

 

[rofif]

May I introduce you to our lord and savior Driveclub ?! (my vid and shots)


How in the world, does games now not look as god as it's photo mode ?!

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

What's with this forums childish obsession with accusing people of telling lies so often, especially when its based on subjective experience or agenda?

 

[adamsapple]

What's with this forums childish obsession with accusing people of telling lies so often, especially when its based on subjective experience or agenda?

 

[SlimySnake]

Okay, could be interesting. I will assume FM2023 will be better of course. Generationally better is more subjective.

graphics will always be subjective. thats why its important to look at the tech which is

Here are the improvements from the last gen versions:
- 3D interactive foliage
- Better Weather effects
- Dynamic Time of Day
- realtime GI
- Better trackside detail
- Improved physics
- New destruction
- 3D crowds
- RTAO
- RT Reflections
- RTGI when they patch it in on PC

Could they have done all of these things last gen? Aside from RT, maybe the GPU heavy features, yes. They are targeting native 4k 60 fps for the non RT mode on a xsx so 720p 60 fps might be possible on the X1s and 1440p 60 fps on the 6 tflops X1x. Maybe without destruction and other CPU heavy effects like physics that might not run on jaguar CPUs. They can definitely do a whole lot more with the xsx GPU if they reduce the resolution but that doesnt mean everything they have improved could be backported to X1.

 

[Elysium44]

graphics will always be subjective. thats why its important to look at the tech which is

Here are the improvements from the last gen versions:
- 3D interactive foliage
- Better Weather effects
- Dynamic Time of Day
- realtime GI
- Better trackside detail
- Improved physics
- New destruction
- 3D crowds
- RTAO
- RT Reflections
- RTGI when they patch it in on PC

Could they have done all of these things last gen? Aside from RT, maybe the GPU heavy features, yes. They are targeting native 4k 60 fps for the non RT mode on a xsx so 720p 60 fps might be possible on the X1s and 1440p 60 fps on the 6 tflops X1x. Maybe without destruction and other CPU heavy effects like physics that might not run on jaguar CPUs. They can definitely do a whole lot more with the xsx GPU if they reduce the resolution but that doesnt mean everything they have improved could be backported to X1.

That's a laundry list of technical buzzwords. I'm talking about what it looks like - not how it was achieved. Something can be more, or less than the sum of its parts.

 

[Turk1993]

That's a laundry list of technical buzzwords. I'm talking about what it looks like - not how it was achieved. Something can be more, or less than the sum of its parts.

Nothing to do with buzzwords, its all facts what he wrote. The game has dynamic tod that lacks in previous Forza facts! The game has dynamic weather that lacks in previous Forza facts! The game has better foliage and trackside details facts! The game has improved physics facts! The game has improved destrcution facts! The game has improved crowds facts! The game has RTAO and RT reflections facts! It does it all better than before with better tech and all dynamic on all tracks. Even that alone is a generational difference on its own compared to older titles.

 

[BigLee74]

Best thing you can do is turn RT off on the XSX. You get a lovely crisp image back in place of a few low resolution car reflections that you barely notice whilst racing.

And I'll say it again, the racing does feel superb on this, even with a controller.

Still disappointed in a few of the car interiors I have seen so far. Improved material/shaders can't hide some of the really old low poly counts on the dash/knobs etc. It's such a mixed bag in there, some are superb looking, others very very meh.

 

[Elysium44]

Nothing to do with buzzwords, its all facts what he wrote. The game has dynamic tod that lacks in previous Forza facts! The game has dynamic weather that lacks in previous Forza facts! The game has better foliage and trackside details facts! The game has improved physics facts! The game has improved destrcution facts! The game has improved crowds facts! The game has RTAO and RT reflections facts! It does it all better than before with better tech and all dynamic on all tracks. Even that alone is a generational difference on its own compared to older titles.

Reading comprehension. Judge the game on what it looks like, not how it achieved it. If you still don't understand what I mean then I give up.

 

[Three]

you need to watch that video. They pointed out exactly why they had to redesign the tracks. I dont know why you refuse to watch it. But i will keep repeating it. Their old tracks were no good because they had extra bumps and oddities that created problems when simply driving. You dont notice it because they have fixed those oddities by redesigning the whole thing. The last thing you want is people posting memes of driving a car that hits a bump and goes off flying. people are already making fun of their replays with flying cars.

The tracks haven't been built from the ground up. From the ground up means there is nothing there and you start from zero. "Redesigning" to remove some bugged bump that sent a car flying isn't evidence of that. The real life tracks still have the odd inaccuracies that were present in past forzas. If they were rescanned from the ground up there would be no reason for those inaccuracies to be duplicated.

 

[Neo_game]

That's a laundry list of technical buzzwords. I'm talking about what it looks like - not how it was achieved. Something can be more, or less than the sum of its parts.

I agree, if Forza is really so advanced then the result should show in phot mode face off ? From the videos it is difficult to say as some places GT looks better and other Forza

 

[SlimySnake]

Best thing you can do is turn RT off on the XSX. You get a lovely crisp image back in place of a few low resolution car reflections that you barely notice whilst racing.

And I'll say it again, the racing does feel superb on this, even with a controller.

Still disappointed in a few of the car interiors I have seen so far. Improved material/shaders can't hide some of the really old low poly counts on the dash/knobs etc. It's such a mixed bag in there, some are superb looking, others very very meh.

RT reflections and RTAO shouldnt come at such a high cost to resolution. Ive played a lot of PC games with RT reflections and they typically have a 35% drop in performance. RTAO is cheaper than RT Shadows which have a 5% hit in cyberpunk if you put it on along with RT reflections'. FM is dropping the resolution by a 100-110% just to get these very limited RT reflections on cars. Something is wrong. Probably a CPU bottleneck. I will try it on my PC tonight.

 

[djjinx2]

Hey at least your posts make him laugh, mine just seem to make him sad.

He's a Sony AI Bot

 

[SlimySnake]

I agree, if Forza is really so advanced then the result should show in phot mode face off ? From the videos it is difficult to say as some places GT looks better and other Forza

We are talking about Forza 7 vs Forza 8 and those advancements outside of maybe 3d crowds and rt reflections do make the game look better than 7.





Compared to GT7, yes not all of these features are making a big difference visually which is why I said earlier that PD needs to learn from Turn10's mistakes and utilize the GPU better to push fidelity instead of pixels and RT.

 

[Turk1993]

SlimySnake Outdated tracks

FM7

ACC

Iracing

2023

2019

 

[sendit]

The only thing going for it is menus.

I wouldn't give it this. It takes ages to get in and out of a race in comparison to GT7.

 

[ShakenG]

Love these comparisons.. keep em coming.