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[Puscifer]

Playing GTAVI, Death Stranding 2, plus everything that ND, Santa Monica, Bend, Bluepoint, Insomniac is preparing at the level of a 4070 will be worth it, and if they patch previous games like Demons souls (incredible for a launch) or GT7 with RT ingame then even better.

Wasn't Demons Souls poised to have RT? I wonder what happened

 

[Quantum253]

Not for the traditional console and have no clue what the fabled handheld looks like

It would be interesting for a direct handheld. I was curious what specs a home console costing $1,000+ would look like spec wise, unless it looks like the higher end x86 handhelds coming out

 

[Gaiff]

That statement was only under the assumption this console was 699 instead of 599

It's like you can't read. This doesn't matter. AMD doesn't have anything that can deliver anywhere near 4080-class performance for 170W. The console could be $10,000 and it wouldn't matter because AMD can't make it appear out of thin air. If they had anything of the sort, they would be murking NVIDIA right now.

Unless Sony is willing to sell a giant console with a 350W+ TDP and loud fans, this is a non-starter.

 

[playsaves3]

I don't think trying to cast their net so wide as to include the entire market is a sound strategy. Sony owns the premium console gaming space and they should play to their strengths. That's what Nintendo does. When Sony massively deviated from their strategy with the PS3, it backfired. When Microsoft tried to chase casual Wii gamers, it backfired as well.

Chasing high-end PC is also suicidal. No matter how high Sony prices their consoles, they won't be able to compete with high-end desktop-class parts. At a certain point, it's no longer just price but also the laws of thermodynamics. Sony couldn't feasibly produce a machine that competes with a 4080/4090 today simply because they have to maintain a TDP and form factor. AMD doesn't have components on the level of a 4080 that could fit inside a console case and stay at 200W or less. That and at $1200, high-end enthusiasts will a lot more out of their machines than just playing video games. Plus, the market isn't that large.

Couldn't they get a robust cooling system if it's more expensive?

 

[playsaves3]

It's like you can't read. This doesn't matter. AMD doesn't have anything that can deliver anywhere near 4080-class performance for 170W. The console could be $10,000 and it wouldn't matter because AMD can't make it appear out of thin air. If they had anything of the sort, they would be murking NVIDIA right now.

Unless Sony is willing to sell a giant console with a 350W+ TDP and loud fans, this is a non-starter.

This is true I just was under the impression more funds meant a way more developed and robust cooling system

 

[Mr. PlayStation]

Wasn't Demons Souls poised to have RT? I wonder what happened

It was never meant to, it was a typo in the PlayStation Blog site!

 

[Gaiff]

It was never meant to, it was a typo in the PlayStation Blog site!

I vaguely remember the dev saying they tried but could get very good results without it while maintaining a much higher frame rate so they left if off. I think. Really not sure because this was almost 4 years ago.

 

[Audiophile]

I wonder if they even bother with a discless SKU for the Pro. Most people inclined to get a Pro aren't likely to fuss over an extra $50 once the price is into the 500s. Might as well net that extra ~$25 'profit' upfront.

 

[Physiognomonics]

Wasn't Demons Souls poised to have RT? I wonder what happened

Its dynamic lighting / shadows are better than many games with RT. When you play Demon's souls you realize you don't need RT if raster rendering is done properly and with care. The devs also said they didn't have time to (properly) use RT in their game.

 

[PaintTinJr]

It's like you can't read. This doesn't matter. AMD doesn't have anything that can deliver anywhere near 4080-class performance for 170W. The console could be $10,000 and it wouldn't matter because AMD can't make it appear out of thin air. If they had anything of the sort, they would be murking NVIDIA right now.

Unless Sony is willing to sell a giant console with a 350W+ TDP and loud fans, this is a non-starter.

That strictly isn't the case, given that consoles can do both a hardware and software paradigm shift to achieve better than 4080 performance without exceeding a console 250watt power limit that isn't available to AMD, because they can't instigate paradigm shifts in software on a Windows PC without Intel and Nvidia agreeing.

That is the reason we were discussing both the Sony upscaler patent and the 4 GPU hardware patent. A ps5 pro or a PS6 APU containing multiple enhanced PS5 GPUs and using a beefy CPU all fabricated on the lowest most cost effective node now, or in 2027 could stay within with 250watt limit, remain cheap enough and performant enough to compare with a 4080.

The only current question IMO is whether a Pro comes or not this gen. There's lots of advantages for releasing a Pro with multiple GPUs and laying 2 years of software advancement for a similar multi-gpu PS6 design, But IMO the biggest downside to releasing a Pro setting a PS6 performance bar too high, and thereby making it harder to do significant price cuts on a PS6 mid gen that the console market needs to add another 50million gamers to cover the spiralling AAA dev costs.

 

[Bernardougf]

Not for the traditional console and have no clue what the fabled handheld looks like

Hey mate.. share your "dream" nextbox specs ... pretty please

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Hey mate.. share your "dream" nextbox specs ... pretty please

I would be pretty happy with the supposed stats that's been kind of shared

Zen 5 CPU with an RDNA 4 GPU and a faster SSD with over 30 teraflops (some say 40)

I would buy that for GTA VI

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Just went up. Seems Sony docs have 67 TF FP-16. IIRC, you divide by 4 to get the FP32 compute, right?

If so that'd be 16.75 TF FP32 compute. Not bad, not "beastly". I'm expecting its the customizations for RT and other stuff doing the heavy lifting for improvements.

 

[Bry0]

Just went up. Seems Sony docs have 67 TF FP-16. IIRC, you divide by 4 to get the FP32 compute, right?

If so that'd be 16.75 TF FP32 compute. Not bad, not "beastly". I'm expecting its the customizations for RT and other stuff doing the heavy lifting for improvements.

45% faster raster, AI upscale and 2-4x better RT sounds pretty solid, in the ballpark of what was anticipated, maybe even slightly better.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

45% faster raster, AI upscale and 2-4x better RT sounds pretty solid, in the ballpark of what was anticipated, maybe even slightly better.

so basically around a 2x perceived jump, taking into account the special sauce?

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

I would be pretty happy with the supposed stats that's been kind of shared

Zen 5 CPU with an RDNA 4 GPU and a faster SSD with over 30 teraflops (some say 40)

I would buy that for GTA VI

not possible on current tech

 

[Bry0]

so basically around a 2x perceived jump, taking into account the special sauce?

I think that's fair. The upscaling will probably do wonders for people using 4K screens in terms of image quality with better framerates on top + faster RT. Pretty nice.

 

[pqueue]

this site is bi-polar.

Either Moore's law Is Dead is full of shit, or they are 100% accurate.

Funny how some pick and choose when to declare them FOS just depending on the basic subject matter.

 

[Hawking Radiation]

Probably 1440p/60. Lol

If this is the baseline for all current gen games then I would be happy with that.

This is what I wanted from the base PS5 at the start of this gen.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Just went up. Seems Sony docs have 67 TF FP-16. IIRC, you divide by 4 to get the FP32 compute, right?

If so that'd be 16.75 TF FP32 compute. Not bad, not "beastly". I'm expecting its the customizations for RT and other stuff doing the heavy lifting for improvements.

I have said for awhile in the 15-17 TF range is what people have been saying

 

[playsaves3]

I find it kinda weird how you and a few others want a super expensive mid gen refresh.

Next gen console I can understand. But I cant see a PS6 being $699. So why would they do a mid gen refresh that expensive?

The ps6 wouldn't be 699 it can't be above 599 (and even that is really pushing it) mid gen refreshes don't have to be as conservative in price and if that's what's needed to get the upgrade we want then why not

 

[playsaves3]

Playing GTAVI, Death Stranding 2, plus everything that ND, Santa Monica, Bend, Bluepoint, Insomniac is preparing at the level of a 4070 will be worth it, and if they patch previous games like Demons souls (incredible for a launch) or GT7 with RT ingame then even better.

4070 ti* on average

 

[lh032]

Just went up. Seems Sony docs have 67 TF FP-16. IIRC, you divide by 4 to get the FP32 compute, right?

If so that'd be 16.75 TF FP32 compute. Not bad, not "beastly". I'm expecting its the customizations for RT and other stuff doing the heavy lifting for improvements.

but is this real or made by some trolls?

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

this site is bi-polar.

Either Moore's law Is Dead is full of shit, or they are 100% accurate.

Funny how some pick and choose when to declare them FOS just depending on the basic subject matter.

I am neutral when it comes to folks like MLID. Particularly like the interviews tho especially the ones with NXGamer.

I have said for awhile in the 15-17 TF range is what people have been saying

So not exactly 2x in terms of TF, but Sony's priorities might've been elsewhere. At least it shouldn't (hopefully) be $699. $599 might be a realistic possibility, unless Sony do an official price drop for PS5 later in the year.

The ps6 wouldn't be 699 it can't be above 599 (and even that is really pushing it) mid gen refreshes don't have to be as conservative in price and if that's what's needed to get the upgrade we want then why not

They might be reserved about $699 for a Pro just because it'd make many think a PS6 in fact does launch for $699, which is a bit much for a mainstream console.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Uh, looks like I slightly goofed on the FP32 compute; just divide by half.

So FP32 for the Pro looks like it's gonna be ~ 33.5 TF. But I'm wondering if that's dual-issue or single-issue shader. 33.5 TF for single-issue shader throughput in a mid-gen refresh sounds monstrous. It also sound like at least $700, if not more.

I'm thinking it's 33.5 TF dual-issue, 16.75 TF single-issue. Most games would target the 16.75 but those using dual-issue instructions could get up to 33.5 TF compute in areas that need it. Pretty interesting, but I'm even more interested in the PSSR stuff.

 

[paolo11]

45% faster raster, AI upscale and 2-4x better RT sounds pretty solid, in the ballpark of what was anticipated, maybe even slightly better.

Based on this rumor, can this run ff7 remake, rebirth part 3 and 16 quality mode 60fps constant?

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

There's a 70% increase in compute so I don't understand only 45% render increase

Is it that limited by bandwidth? Why not just increase the bandwidth enough to fully utilize compute?

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Based on this rumor, can this run ff7 remake, rebirth part 3 and 16 quality mode 60fps constant?

Seems like it should if it's reaching 40fps uncapped

 

[Anchovie123]

Just went up. Seems Sony docs have 67 TF FP-16. IIRC, you divide by 4 to get the FP32 compute, right?

If so that'd be 16.75 TF FP32 compute. Not bad, not "beastly". I'm expecting its the customizations for RT and other stuff doing the heavy lifting for improvements.

From the video

 

[ChiefDada]

Just went up. Seems Sony docs have 67 TF FP-16. IIRC, you divide by 4 to get the FP32 compute, right?

If so that'd be 16.75 TF FP32 compute. Not bad, not "beastly". I'm expecting its the customizations for RT and other stuff doing the heavy lifting for improvements.

No! I thought divide by 2 so 32 TFLOP?????!!!!!!

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

What are the implications of 2-4x RT?

RT isn't hardly used at all on PS5 games. In this going to make it far more ubiquitous without tanking performance?

Will it only be used sparingly like for shadows or will we get reflections?

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

No! I thought divide by 2 so 32 TFLOP?????!!!!!!

Not exactly equivalent

It's seeming as though RDNA is getting reconfigured here

 

[MikeM]

Just went up. Seems Sony docs have 67 TF FP-16. IIRC, you divide by 4 to get the FP32 compute, right?

If so that'd be 16.75 TF FP32 compute. Not bad, not "beastly". I'm expecting its the customizations for RT and other stuff doing the heavy lifting for improvements.

Pretty solid increase just on the raster side. That, plus using PSSR to upscale to whatever res and frames might make this box very compelling. I'm very interested in this.

 

[ChiefDada]

this site is bi-polar.

Either Moore's law Is Dead is full of shit, or they are 100% accurate.

Funny how some pick and choose when to declare them FOS just depending on the basic subject matter.

He can be both. That's how people/the world is. I put more stock because it is a week before GDC, way too specific, etc.

 

[Topher]

this site is bi-polar.

Either Moore's law Is Dead is full of shit, or they are 100% accurate.

Funny how some pick and choose when to declare them FOS just depending on the basic subject matter.

Eh.....maybe you are reading different comments from different people?

 

[jm89]

I have said for awhile in the 15-17 TF range is what people have been saying

In the vidoe he is saying double that.

 

[ChiefDada]

What are the implications of 2-4x RT?

Frankly I struggle to see how the 7900xtx can overcome PS5 Pro IMAGE QUALITY OUTPUT (not raw raster) in RT workloads if those numbers and PSSR is legit.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

He can be both. That's how people/the world is. I put more stock because it is a week before GDC, way too specific, etc.

also he showed receipts this time. I think he reports a lot of stuff from various sources and some are straight up BS

this report seems pretty realistic

 

[Lagspike_exe]

What would "spectral" refer to?

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

meaningless until actual mind-blowing Next-Gen shit is shown

 

[Topher]

I have said for awhile in the 15-17 TF range is what people have been saying

Much more realistic. Otherwise, this "leak" is saying AMD was able to put roughly the equivalent of a 7800 XT on to an APU. That is a massively leap in APU tech, isn't it?

Nah....not buying it. Don't get me wrong. I would absolutely LOVE to be wrong. Just not holding my breath.

 

[playsaves3]

Yeah, overlooked the "Pro"- part.
It does make a difference.

Although, personally, a possible Pro at €599 is a day 1 purchase.
At €699, no chance I'll buy one.
Might as well wait a bit longer for PS6, which will likely be cheaper than €699, or at worst same price.

The assumption is if it's 699 instead of 599 it will be A lot better specs and build quality wise

 

[Killjoy-NL]

The assumption is if it's 699 instead of 599 it will be A lot better specs and build quality wise

Sure, that's a given.

The question would be if Sony thinks it's worth it.

 

[paolo11]

Seems like it should if it's reaching 40fps uncapped

Both games are 30fps locked on quality mode.

 

[Gaiff]

That strictly isn't the case, given that consoles can do both a hardware and software paradigm shift to achieve better than 4080 performance without exceeding a console 250watt power limit that isn't available to AMD, because they can't instigate paradigm shifts in software on a Windows PC without Intel and Nvidia agreeing.

That is the reason we were discussing both the Sony upscaler patent and the 4 GPU hardware patent. A ps5 pro or a PS6 APU containing multiple enhanced PS5 GPUs and using a beefy CPU all fabricated on the lowest most cost effective node now, or in 2027 could stay within with 250watt limit, remain cheap enough and performant enough to compare with a 4080.

The only current question IMO is whether a Pro comes or not this gen. There's lots of advantages for releasing a Pro with multiple GPUs and laying 2 years of software advancement for a similar multi-gpu PS6 design, But IMO the biggest downside to releasing a Pro setting a PS6 performance bar too high, and thereby making it harder to do significant price cuts on a PS6 mid gen that the console market needs to add another 50million gamers to cover the spiralling AAA dev costs.

We're talking about a PS5 Pro in 2024 and strictly in terms of raw horsepower at a TDP similar to the regular PS5. Why are you talking about 2027, upscalers and a 250W TDP?

 

[playsaves3]

They need to reboot the platform and just call it Playstation.
- Playstation Pro: $1,200+, competes with high end PCs
- Playstation: default console
- Playstation Portable: low end spec Playstation portable, can reach the power of the default console with a dock (sold sep).

- Plays PS1-5 games.
- For the next 10-15 years the new Playstation and future consoles will be forward and backwards compatible.
- Official PS keyboard and mouse hardware and support with future plans to release a desk version of Playstation to compete directly with PC (mods, expandability, LED lights, Mountain Dew coupons)

a 1,200 pro should be better than every PC on the planet not just compete

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

There's a 70% increase in compute so I don't understand only 45% render increase

Is it that limited by bandwidth? Why not just increase the bandwidth enough to fully utilize compute?

For single-issue the actual compute increase is to 16.75 TF so it's like a 63%. It could be the CPU not getting a big revision or super-high clock to leverage it wholly though.

Pretty solid increase just on the raster side. That, plus using PSSR to upscale to whatever res and frames might make this box very compelling. I'm very interested in this.

Same. PSSR and any other customizations for upscaling, AI, caches etc. are more interesting to me than whatever the TF is going to be.

In the vidoe he is saying double that.

He wasn't specifying single-issue or dual-issue mode, though. Realistically, you'd need a 112 CU GPU at PS5's GPU clock just to get 32 TF in single-issue mode.

So the 33.5 TF is definitely dual-issue mode, meaning games would have to target dual-issue shader throughput to get the benefits on that front.

Much more realistic. Otherwise, this "leak" is saying AMD was able to put roughly the equivalent of a 7800 XT on to an APU. That is a massively leap in APU tech, isn't it?

Nah....not buying it. Don't get me wrong. I would absolutely LOVE to be wrong. Just not holding my breath.

Yeah it's 16.75 TF in "real" performance (single-issue shader mode). It's a 56 CU design; to hit 33.5 TF the GPU'd have to be clocked more than 4.5 GHz. I don't think any GPU's are hitting that at this size for a few years from now, even from AMD (whose GPUs are usually higher-clocked than Nvidia ones).

Good news is the custom stuff like PSSR seem to be doing a lot of the heavy lifting, and are very easy for devs to tap into. Can definitely see Sony doing $349 PS5 digital/$449 PS5 disc/$549 PS5 Pro digital this holiday.

 

[playsaves3]

It would be interesting for a direct handheld. I was curious what specs a home console costing $1,000+ would look like spec wise, unless it looks like the higher end x86 handhelds coming out

id imagine if a console is 1000+ it would use the same GPU as amds top end in this case the upcoming 8900xtx for rDNA 4 (maybe they may push a bit higher)

 

[Killjoy-NL]

id imagine if a console is 1000+ it would use the same GPU as amds top end in this case the upcoming 8900xtx for rDNA 4 (maybe they may push a bit higher)

Would be more cost-efficient for Sony to just release a PC version of a game.

 

[playsaves3]

I would be pretty happy with the supposed stats that's been kind of shared

Zen 5 CPU with an RDNA 4 GPU and a faster SSD with over 30 teraflops (some say 40)

I would buy that for GTA VI

these are literally the exact specs I've been wanting for the pro and what I thought they were waiting for to upgrade on before releasing (though not 30tf more like 20)