Quantum253
Gold Member
The Elderscrolls VI: Hammerfell quests would have been better if they just had enough time to write them and not forced to panic at the last minute.....Twitter 2026
Starfield's lead quest designer had 'absolutely no time'
- Thread starter nikolino840
- Start date
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
BigLee74
Member
A lot of words when you could have just said no
but you'll still peddle other people's opinions constantly in threads as if it's the only one that counts.As a guy that has played it, I thought the game was very good, and the best one I played last year. Not a masterpiece by any stretch, but still really enjoyable.
JimmyRustler
Member
Yeah, the PC Gamer headline is a terrible paraphrase of the GDC talk, and that's been further mangled into the headline here that shows OP didn't read the article itself.
Unsurprising that the bulk of comments here also seem to be solely based off on the headline
Because the article's headline is a poor summary of what the dev said?
NiiloPielinen
Member
I'd say that 90% of the problems have always been from poor management and corporate interference. At least after the industry moved forward from a single bedroom coder working alone in the early 80s.
SJRB
Gold Member
The entire main quest was terrible. Just dreadful. An epic final location wouldn't have made a difference.
The moment you reach the Lodge and someone says "Yo that guy on the space station wants to talk to you" and instead of, you know... radio you physically have to go there just to talk to him and get a fetch quest from him, I knew this fucking game was bad.
What the hell were they thinking, with that temple and the little swirls you have to fly through? And doing that exact same thing like 15 times? Seriously, I legit do not understand how this happens. Hundreds of people worked on this game, how was no one going "guys this just fucking sucks. We're literally copy-pasting this shit, and it wasn't fun the first time so how can it be fun the 15th time".
You made Skyrim, for fucks sake. You know how you should approach this, from a design standpoint. And yet you fail so miserably.
Boggles the mind.
The moment you reach the Lodge and someone says "Yo that guy on the space station wants to talk to you" and instead of, you know... radio you physically have to go there just to talk to him and get a fetch quest from him, I knew this fucking game was bad.
What the hell were they thinking, with that temple and the little swirls you have to fly through? And doing that exact same thing like 15 times? Seriously, I legit do not understand how this happens. Hundreds of people worked on this game, how was no one going "guys this just fucking sucks. We're literally copy-pasting this shit, and it wasn't fun the first time so how can it be fun the 15th time".
You made Skyrim, for fucks sake. You know how you should approach this, from a design standpoint. And yet you fail so miserably.
Boggles the mind.
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Topher
Identifies as young
Really? Based on what? What is being "mangled" specifically about what was said?
killatopak
Member
For a game developed for so long, that is the worst excuse wtf.
vaibhavpisal
Member
It's feeding into a narrative. You have to be naive to think this is straight forward reporting of facts.
Look at this post
Dude is following some in depth essays that are doing the same. I can take most games are twist some aspects to make them look bad.
The headline gives an entirely different interpretation of the context in the article, and you can tell by the comments here, including yours. It certainly doesn't bring out the key message in the GDC talk which is mainly about scheduling, planning and project management challenges in large, multi-studio projects. Challenges many studios go through.
Will's saying that when they identified the need for a fitting finale, he was already fully booked for the entire project development timeframe and had to draft in another resource to make that happen. Nothing in the talk suggests they were unhappy with the final act they built in or that they feel they compromised due to time constraints.
What 'truth' is he speaking that corresponds to this?
Fess
Member
The temple grinding is the problem with the main quest for me. Too many and exactly the same in "gameplay". That was a bad idea, like going after Skyrim shouts with no dungeon to go through before you get them.
Actually thought the Starborne concept was cool though, and I liked the two perspectives. The rouguelike design was a hugecturn-off at first but seems interesting after I've heard more about it but I'm a one universe type of guy so I haven't really dut into that and it's too long to be rushed through just to see multiple universes.
In the end, for me it's a No Man's Sky clone with roleplaying and ship building and actual good and fun combat. Lackluster exploration and limited traversal options are the big negatives but never killed it for me. Solid 9/10
Still playing it on and off after 300 hours. Went with a sword-only build last time, super-offensive combat, couldn't finish it because of the last space fight though since I still had the first ship, went to get the Razorleaf to go through the finish line but dropped out so haven't done it yet. Really looking forward to the expansion a lot and also the official mod support which will hopefully make modding more advanced.
Tbh I can't understand those who say it's crap, unless it's framerate related which I can understand, but simply not liking it is no biggie, No Man's Sky had lots of people who couldn't (and still can't) see the appeal of it. I think it's great, especially with some mods to get rid of the Sweet Baby design so there is some eye candy in the universe, it's not the game I thought it would be though, I thought it would be more like Mass Effect but they made the ship and crew almost irrelevant.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
I wish you were joking. Costs rise a lot in AAA games and companies get scared so they add a lot more process that slows down development (driving costs up), stifles creativity, or both.
yurinka
Member
And there are over 4000 people listed in the game credits of Starfield.
We've heard from multiple interviews that they had a lot of changes to game design during the development, is it more survival game, is base building more prominent. Maybe final form emerged quite late and it was difficult to tie stories together in gameplay.
I think they had good ingredients in large scale, factions are bit basic but fine. Where they fumbled was story beats from arriving to New Atlantis all the way to the Unity. There is one event I think that was memorable and well done.
And to be honest I don't think main story is all that good in Fallout 4 or Skyrim. All the good stuff is in the side quests and environmental storytelling, main story needs just to be good enough.
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II_JumPeR_I
Member
Current game devs and their no time bullshit.
Wtf are they doing all day?
Wtf are they doing all day?
Hudo
Member
Starfield's lead quest designer had 'absolutely no time' and had to hit the 'panic button' so the game would have a satisfying final quest
"It became very clear that we were missing the large final location that was going to tie the story together," says former lead quest designer Will Shen.www.pcgamer.com
"It became very clear that we were missing the large final location that was going to tie the story together," says former lead quest designer Will Shen.
You know, saying this is ridiculous because the game was in dev for at least 8 years...
Angry_Megalodon
Member
This is my revolutionary idea for Bethesda execs: how about hiring ACTUAL WRITERS instead of the useless turds they hire in spades?
How about being advised by sci-fi pros instead of babies, sweet or otherwise?
"Industry in crisis" my ass.
How about being advised by sci-fi pros instead of babies, sweet or otherwise?
"Industry in crisis" my ass.
YeulEmeralda
Linux User
I'm guessing nobody at Bethesda ever played Mass Effect. The mystery, the wonder, the alien cultures, the party banter.
Gojiira
Member
Aside from a garbage ending, Starfields writing and world building has issues from the very beginning. Bethesda just like they did in Fallout dont keep design documents so quest writers etc often contradict themselves, each other, or just outright retcon unintentionally. For a game with a seven year+ dev cycle (And lets be real it was released unfinished) you would think they would have at least TRIED their absolute best in establishing the lore and world.
But of course Emil 'Write what you know' was lead writer again so of course it was gonna be full of issues, they seriously need to fire him. Trash writer.
But of course Emil 'Write what you know' was lead writer again so of course it was gonna be full of issues, they seriously need to fire him. Trash writer.
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StereoVsn
Gold Member
I agree, this is all a setup. Starfield was actually amazing. This is all the fault of the haters. I even have this map to prove that. Pepe Silvia was the culprit!It's feeding into a narrative. You have to be naive to think this is straight forward reporting of facts.
Look at this post
Dude is following some in depth essays that are doing the same. I can take most games are twist some aspects to make them look bad.
HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
Bingo.
Now whether or not this OP/article are flimsy, the fact is that Starfield was hyped to be more than what it ended up being. I put about 65 hours into it and enjoyed 90% of what I played, but I also understand why it saw thick backlash.
A solid 7.5-8/10 game, which is fine!
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vaibhavpisal
Member
Does that sound like fair critique to you?I agree, this is all a setup. Starfield was actually amazing. This is all the fault of the haters. I even have this map to prove that. Pepe Silvia was the culprit!
Sounds like dude was interested in hating it from first minute.
You can have good time playing Starfield, even though its not perfect and I have a wish list of things I want to see in it.
GHG
Member
Why are you speaking for others here when you should only be speaking for yourself?
Nonehxc
Member
You're part of the problem, see?
You didn't even think to ask, like the developers didn't even think to ask the chair
if it/they/them identified as a chair 
or as a sofa 
vaibhavpisal
Member
GHG
Member
Topher
Identifies as young
"We were finally at a state in the project where we could play through the whole [game]. And it became very clear that we were missing the large final location that was going to tie the story together and have a satisfying action-filled payoff," Shen said. "I was both implementing the main quest and leading the quest design team, so I had absolutely no time. The entire quest design team was already overbooked."
And then what they came up with....
"As it became clear Starfield's main quest was missing a big final set piece and there wasn't enough time to create one, Shen turned to senior level designer Steve Cornett. "He was definitely our panic button," Shen said. Cornett had the idea for dimension hopping, which would let the player revisit several key locations from earlier in the game, and more importantly, save the time of crafting entirely new locations for the final battle. "
This all ties directly back to headline so I still don't see the problem. The headline doesn't say they failed even though many of us feel they did.
That the ending was rushed. The author of the article actually makes a point to say that he "didn't come away with the feeling that it had been a last minute scramble". I actually do feel that way. It was a mess and was one of my biggest complaints about the game when I finished it. So that's the "truth" I see in his words whether he intended it or not.
Topher
Identifies as young
The temple grinding was kind of silly. Floating in the air repeatedly chasing a cluster of lights......the fuck was that? Nah....didn't care for any of that or the starborne stuff. I loved the faction quests and the shipbuilding mainly. Missed a lot of little things like vehicles for exploring planets.
I still enjoyed it quite a bit overall despite a few glaring flaws. Agree.....mod support can't come soon enough. And the expansion.
efyu_lemonardo
May I have a cookie?
Star Citizen will surely get it right… "only" 12 years.
Imagine what they could have done with 20 years dev time.
Topher
Identifies as young
The article is factually reporting what was said. Nothing "naive" about that.
vaibhavpisal
Member
If you want true insight, you shouldn't make fun of it.
Else devs can gladly serve you PR. There is no incentive for them to lay bare the nitty gritty.
Topher
Identifies as young
What are you talking about? I'm not "making fun" of anything.
Buggy Loop
Member
8 years $400M
No time? Explain BG3.
No time? Explain BG3.
MasterCornholio
Member
Your maiking fun of
vaibhavpisal
though. 
Honestly I think he's some weird parody account. Kind of like me at times.
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The direct quotes make it clear Will himself was overbooked and had no time left to work on that missing piece. He found another resource to do that after scrambling around.
Worthwhile to point out that this part of the article
Isn't a direct quote, including the "there wasn't enough time to create one" part.
I think it's pretty clear that people who were at the talk think the headline was misleading and out of context.
you say you had issues with entire second half of the game. This article headline focuses solely on the game's finale and doesn't really tie into your own observations.
He isn't making fun of it at all.
Topher
Identifies as young
If folks who were there don't think the article is accurate then fair enough. True that I expanded my own obvervations beyond the scope of what the dev was saying.
Ybarra whinging about the headline (because the article gives exactly the context required and is by no means "weaponized") is exactly why people don't trust developers to self-critique. The headline isn't the issue: the core issue is a team of 100 ballooning to 500+ to deliver objectively less content (and doing so inefficiently).
Like Shen, one of the lead developers on the fucking game, is out and out saying "We did not have the time we needed to create the climax that the story we've been telling, demands." I haven't played NG+ of SF, but there is a lack of oomph to the ending of the game that is hard to argue otherwise. In a 100 person team (such as that that made SKYRIM) where you are constantly cross-collabing, that might not have been an issue.
Like Shen, one of the lead developers on the fucking game, is out and out saying "We did not have the time we needed to create the climax that the story we've been telling, demands." I haven't played NG+ of SF, but there is a lack of oomph to the ending of the game that is hard to argue otherwise. In a 100 person team (such as that that made SKYRIM) where you are constantly cross-collabing, that might not have been an issue.
Majormaxxx
Member
Video essays are the plague
Angry_Megalodon
Member
Discussing whether or not the headline is accurate is pretty pointless given that Starfield's narrative is abysmal despite it took them a lifetime to write it. Those are facts. They say they don't have time instead of "we suck at this". Writing a 3000-page story without an end in mind is pathetic. It's exactly the opposite of good writing, and it has nothing to do with deadlines.