DavidGzz
Member
3 trillion dollar company got there by being dumb? More like smart moves scrutinized by nobodys. Tango wasn't making them money. Business is business.
Translation is haters gonna hate.
[The Verge] Core Xbox Game Studios are set for cutbacks next.
3 trillion dollar company got there by being dumb? More like smart moves scrutinized by nobodys. Tango wasn't making them money. Business is business.
Translation is haters gonna hate.
BlackTron
Member
3 trillion dollar company got there by selling Windows and Office, not Xbox.
Frankly, this post is embarrassing. You should feel bad.
Klayzer
Member
3d chess
YeulEmeralda
Linux User
How is Windows Phone doing these days?
Kacho
Gold Member
100%. Leadership put out PR on future hardware to gauge interest and keep Xbox in the conversation but it's all about the numbers. If hardware sales and purchases within the ecosystem continue to decline it's just not going to be a viable strategy. I used to spend so much money on Xbox and I stopped over six months ago. I'm sure there are plenty more just like me.
$3,000,000,000,000 market cap, baby!
DavidGzz
Member
What's that have to do with what I said? Tango made them little to no money and they pitched Hi-Fi 2 instead of The Evil Within 3. There have been cuts and losses among a lot of studios and Sony was being scrutinized not too long ago for the same thing. MS just happened to own a lot more studios so the cuts will hit them harder. And lol at your second line.
SportsFan581
Member
I see everyone blaming the changes that have occurred on the ABK deal. It's just weird to me how that deal could necessitate this, because everything there was staying multiplat and they've already made major cuts. I'm not sure how much they expected ABK to suddenly grow given their existing trend when they purchased them, and the fact that it looks like they are holding there (probably even doing better margin wise after the cuts). 
Strange times. Maybe it's just them being spooked the way that most of the industry seems to be.
Strange times. Maybe it's just them being spooked the way that most of the industry seems to be.
Red5
Member
Xbox has been dumber than a sack of rocks since Xbox One reveal, MS being 3 trillion dollars worth has nothing to do with Xbox division which hasn't been making any impact on that achievement at all and now quite the opposite after having splurged 70+ Billion $ on acquisitions they have to start showing some results.
Tango, Arkane Austin and all of the rest of the studios are victims of Spencer's pip dream and poor decisions.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
money is money and business is bunisess
Game Pass is not making money and as a business is not working.
what's the outcome?
StereoVsn
Gold Member
There have been couple of articles on the subject. Before the acquisition spree, Xbox wasn't making a lot of money, but it wasn't losing a lot of money.I see everyone blaming the changes that have occurred on the ABK deal. It's just weird to me how that deal could necessitate this, because everything there was staying multiplat and they've already made major cuts. I'm not sure how much they expected ABK to suddenly grow given their existing trend when they purchased them, and the fact that it looks like they are holding there (probably even doing better margin wise after the cuts).
Strange times. Maybe it's just them being spooked the way that most of the industry seems to be.
Spencer promised the world with GamePass and justified the spend on that by ever expanding subscription revenue. Once he spent cool $80 billion on that, it brought visibility to the business unit.
Subs didn't materialize, games turned out to be kind of crap. So that internal visibility for gaming became a liability because MS execs now want to see return for the spend. Hence the ruthless (and short sighted) cost cutting, going 3rd party, possibility of hardware being cut and so on.
Phil was a big fish in a small pool as far as MS went. He wanted to trade up to the big pool… and here we are.
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BlackTron
Member
Maybe they pitched Hi-Fi Rush 2 because Microsoft said the first game smashed all expectations.
It always comes back to the fools at Xbox being a bunch of insincere liars no matter what angle or lens you look at it from.
DavidGzz
Member
I'm sure they knew the truth as the dev. If they fell for the PR as well, maybe that's another reason they are incompetent? Mikami jumped ship and probably doomed them tbh. Who knows what happens behind the scenes. It's just annoying when people act like they know what they would do in MS's shoes or what is even happening behind the scenes. Maybe they let them do what they wanted and now when MS asked them to try something else, they refused. No one knows but them.
cash_longfellow
Member
It's cute you think that actually makes a difference with MS
Kinda ironic a 3 trillion dollar company has to do layoffs and close studios.
Seems like its ran like a normal business and divisions need to be self sufficient and not keep relying on the mothership. Infinite warchest...clearly it isn't infinite.
So you agree if MS decides they need to stop making hardware its a smart move?
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DavidGzz
Member
Idk what they should do but I wouldn't care. I'm a PC main. People like throwing around fanboy when you don't spend your day crucifying MS. I use Game Pass on PC mostly, haven't turned the XSX on in ages and played my PS5 more recently than the XSX but somehow I'm a fanboy.
hinch7
Member
Embrace, extend, and extinguish.
Was relevent in the old Internet Explorer days (for those who remember it), and still today.
I got my first xbox since the 360 era when my ps5 had to go in for repairs a couple year ago. PlayStation I spend £1000-£1500/yr on games and have ps+ premium.
Xbox, I have gamespass, and have not spent a penny more. Something about their eco system actively discourages spending.
JerryinSoCal
Member
That deal grew their workforce to somewhere between 23k-30k and that's just too many people for the kind of money they are bringing in. I mean Tango was a small studio from what I've read and the type of games they were making didn't seem to be bank breakers so I don't know why they chose them specifically.I see everyone blaming the changes that have occurred on the ABK deal. It's just weird to me how that deal could necessitate this, because everything there was staying multiplat and they've already made major cuts. I'm not sure how much they expected ABK to suddenly grow given their existing trend when they purchased them, and the fact that it looks like they are holding there (probably even doing better margin wise after the cuts).
Strange times. Maybe it's just them being spooked the way that most of the industry seems to be.
Moses85
Member
BlackTron
Member
For someone who says we know nothing, you sure know an awful lot.
SportsFan581
Member
ABK was profitable with its staff in place. Everyone brought over in that move could be paid for by the profit generated from ABK. In fact the percentage of revenue used to pay staff at ABK would be reduced now as they have cut roughly 10% of the staff. Not only was ABK profitable already, but they have proven to be one of the most profitable entities by percentage in the entire industry. And MS has not made any major changes there yet, no games have released on GP and everything has released everywhere. It has been business as usual for them. Seems like they had a bizarre growth expectation for them.
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DrFigs
Member
toys for bob was sold off wasn't it after some layoffs? but in general, you're right they haven't done much w/ ABK yet.
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SportsFan581
Member
That's true. Though they had been regulated to support studio work and were no longer directly contributing to the bottom line. I just count that as part of the headcount cut they've done there.
ChuckeRearmed
Member
I guess Ninja Theory might go independent again.
Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
Unless their costs are super high, me thinks they are one of the safe ones.
Getting cutbacks I think
Mojang
343i if they havent been gutted already
inXile
Obsidian
Undead Labds
Turn 10
Damn.....thats basically all the core studios?
ChuckeRearmed
Member
Mojang is not getting cutbacks for sure.
Inxile probably not either as they haven't released their game yet.
Obsidian also not because they have games in the pipeline. Post Avowed, we will see though.
Undead Labs has a lot of resources in SOD3 and it is allegedly something like MMO + support for SOD2.
Turn10 is a possibility as they just need to produce the content for FM and technical advisors.
Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
`
Isnt Mojang at like 1000 employees.....thats an excessively large studio and cutting back would likely not affect MineCraft and its offshoots all that much.
DavidGzz
Member
I say probably and who knows, everyone else says, MS is the devil and how could they not be a charity and support dozens of studios with their warchest.
Sony
Banned
The harsh reality is that people work best under pressure. Look at Microsoft's first party game release intervals. Shitload of time between Halo 5 and infinite, between forza 7 and motorsport etc.
I think Microsoft have leaned it too much into the 'creative freedom' process by allowing the studios to do what they do when they do it.
I'm genuinely baffled my the mediocrity of their games given the recourses they spent, and this is the only explanation that I have.
I think Microsoft have leaned it too much into the 'creative freedom' process by allowing the studios to do what they do when they do it.
I'm genuinely baffled my the mediocrity of their games given the recourses they spent, and this is the only explanation that I have.
ChuckeRearmed
Member
Mojang is big, but the problem is that even with all of this Minecraft requires too many staff to support it.
Double Fine might also be at risk but as long as Tim Schafer is there, it should be fine I guess - whether going independent or even not being closed. I think for Tango, what affected the most was not only the fact it was in Japan (too big timezone difference), but also Mikami leaving . With Arkane Austin it was a shell of its former self anyway.
Will be interesting to see what will happen - if the Initiative won't show anything, it might also be on a chopping block. Rare might have some cuts (Everwild team) as they seem prefer travelling around the world rather than working on Everwild. Though SoT team should be fine.
Yeah, I kinda agree. Essentially I think there are too many people in dev who go they without any proper competence. There is a reason why asian devs are on the rise in Korea, China - people develop games for fun, because they like and are enthusiastic about it.
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BlackTron
Member
I agree that no amount of money is worth throwing at studios if you are as catastrophically bad at management as Xbox. But by spending 70bn on acquisitions, I'd say they telegraphed they could afford to support their studios while putting a strategy into motion (which didn't exist).
LordCBH
Member
100% absolutely spot on.
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