adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Last edited:
-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
The Problem With Xbox AKA Phil Spencer - Chart Heavy
- Thread starter FalconPunch
- Start date
March Climber
Member
You've completely misread the intent of my post, because it helps all parties involved, even those such as yourself.
What you think my post is saying: You must complete games in order to leave a review.
What my post is actually saying: You must at least have proof of purchase and/or have earned 1 trophy/achievement to leave a review.
The large majority of games will award you with a trophy/achievement when finishing a tutorial section. Thus, if someone such as yourself would prefer reading the opinions of the people who did only this, then they're free to do so.
The ultimate point of the new system is to deter reviews from people who:
A) Have never purchased said title.
B) Have never played said title after purchase.
If that is taken care of, we will see way less zero score review bombing and the numbers will realistically reflect the opinions of those who have played the game.
The system I'm proposing is very similar to Steam's review system where it lists 'number of hours played' so that you know how informed the review will be, but proof of purchase/play is an absolute necessity.
Last edited:
MasterCornholio
Member
Metacritic user reviews?
Well now you have to apologise for writing those reviews.
ozz ex machina
Member
Reach was shit too compared to halo 3. Added bloom and abilities which ruined halo. 4 was a mess. 5 was decent but hard for people to get into. Infinite is now in a really good place, had it launched like it is now we'd be saying it's halo back on form but they fucked it hard.
Thirty7ven
Banned
Does it get any more crystal clear than this?
Of course the looney house would be offended at the data, it's Xbox. Data is forbidden knowledge.
Of course the looney house would be offended at the data, it's Xbox. Data is forbidden knowledge.
yurinka
Member
Nice to see what we think of Phil Spencer in numbers, properly backed with factual data.Continuing on from my previous post, lets look at the Ori series next.
A great game and one that bucks the trend of a general decline in quality. The user and critic scores are closely aligned showing that this is a series where the critics got it right.
Fable Series:
The only thing we can say here is that there's a perceived decline according to the users. The franchise is shelved I believe.
Flight Simulator:
Flight Simulator is a stable series in terms of reviews with FSX being the outlier. Notice the huge gulf in userscore vs critic score suggesting that the critics were wrong once again. Personally speaking, I like the series and it's one I play often till this day.
Miscellaneous Exclusives:
There's no real trend to see here. This chart just highlights the Metascore vs User score for each random exclusive.
Dead Rising Series:
Here again we see another decline in quality with each iteration. Nothing much to add.
Minecraft:
Another decline in quality although these are different type of games.
Let's Look at Phil Spencer's Performance as a whole.
It's clear to see that prior to Phil Spencer taking over Xbox as a whole in 2014, titles scored higher with both users and critics. Since he's taken over, we've seen a drop in both ratings.
Key takeaways:
Discuss....
- 8 out 11 franchises saw a decline in quality with each mainline release
- There's a drastic difference in user score vs critic score suggesting that the critics are overrating games. This is not just limited to xbox
- The franchises tended to score higher earlier in the lifecycle often aligning with OG Xbox or Xbox 360
- There are more 90 rated games in the OG Xbox / Xbox 360 era than there are in the Series / Xbox One era
- Of the recent releases, only Flight Simulator, Forza Horizon 5 and Ori the will of the wisp touch the 90s.
Personally speaking, I feel like Phil Spencer is a big problem.
Nice to see what we think of adamsapple in numbers, properly backed with factual data.EDIT:adamsapple is attempting to derail the thread by arguing that metacritic user scores are invalid. The charts are composed of both the metacritic "critic" score listed as metacritic and the metacritic user score listed as "userscore". If you do not like the userscore. Feel free to ignore the user score and look at the aggregate critic scores.
EDIT 2: Since
MasterCornholio
Member
EDIT 2: Since
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
EDIT 2: Since
Wildebeest
Member
There is a big problem with a strategy of leaning on tentpole IP for 10-20 years, namely fatigue. While it might seem that player fatigue is the main problem, the real problem is developer fatigue, as they get sick of trying to complete the Sisyphean task of giving 40-year-old millennial man babies what they want with games that they are totally sick of working on.
mayham2199
Member
I mean is that really it? I'd just prefer someone who can take Xbox back to the 360 days when I was having a blast on their ecosystem. Could care less what that person does in their free time. Hell maybe he needs to stop gaming and start focusing on Xbox more. Maybe he's doing to much gaming.He's a gamer just like us.
edit: Orziel is attempting to derail the thread.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
nemiroff
Gold Member
All those charts and no mention of the infamous "hands off" style studio management from MS Xbox..? Shoddy research.
Also, metacritic scores from years ago is not good use of data without the context of explaining the impact the evolvement internet has had on the industry. How review scores have changed over the years is drastic. Idk, is MC adjusting for that?
User scores.. LOL.
(Anyway, I didn't know Minecraft had such "low" scores. One of the most infamous and popular games of all time, and it only has a low 80s aggregated score..? That's...Interesting..)
But yeah; a multibillion dollar franchise, and all they could come up with was the mediocracy of Legends and Dungeons..
There's so much context missing in the op.. Halo f.ex., why not mention 343, the the sole reason for Halo's "downfall" in the form of Halo 4 and 5. It has little to do with Spencer (unless you're interested in discussing general MS management strategy).
The same general lack of context is the same for all of op's "data" and "conclusion", I'm not going to go through all of those franchises, the point has been made.
Again; There's no need to bring in a lot of half-assed data to show off correlation when the only question to be asked in the wake of causation is this: Is the hands-off approach wise? Should they carry on like that or should they implement mechanisms for oversight? How will "independent" studios under the MS umbrella react to this?
Also, metacritic scores from years ago is not good use of data without the context of explaining the impact the evolvement internet has had on the industry. How review scores have changed over the years is drastic. Idk, is MC adjusting for that?
User scores.. LOL.
(Anyway, I didn't know Minecraft had such "low" scores. One of the most infamous and popular games of all time, and it only has a low 80s aggregated score..? That's...Interesting..)
But yeah; a multibillion dollar franchise, and all they could come up with was the mediocracy of Legends and Dungeons..
There's so much context missing in the op.. Halo f.ex., why not mention 343, the the sole reason for Halo's "downfall" in the form of Halo 4 and 5. It has little to do with Spencer (unless you're interested in discussing general MS management strategy).
The same general lack of context is the same for all of op's "data" and "conclusion", I'm not going to go through all of those franchises, the point has been made.
Again; There's no need to bring in a lot of half-assed data to show off correlation when the only question to be asked in the wake of causation is this: Is the hands-off approach wise? Should they carry on like that or should they implement mechanisms for oversight? How will "independent" studios under the MS umbrella react to this?
Last edited:
FalconPunch
Member
Nuance is for those looking to make excuses. The data is just there to show how Xbox has performed under Phil's reign. To use a rather simplistic example, when a team starts performing poorly after a new coach is hired, it's up to the coach to rectify the situation. The coach must look at the underlying reasons to the poor performance and address them otherwise he'll be fired. The buck stops with Phil Spencer. The fans are not paid to manage xbox and Phil is. He's been underperforming for almost a decade and it's time for him to go period. If you want to blame others in the organization, feel free to do so but at the end of the day, the others are his pawns and he choose how the game is played.
Last edited:
MacReady13
Member
Been saying for a while that Phil Spenser has completely ruined what was once great about Xbox- they were a CONSOLE 1st and foremost and competed very well against Playstation and Nintendo. All cause they got trounced in 1 generation they have decided to pretty much abandon the console space to try get their sub service into a billion gamers hands. They can keep dreaming but it will NEVER happen.
Funny how Nintendo lost BIG time with the Wiiu yet picked themselves straight back up with the Switch and it has been a HUGE success. Microsoft don't know what the fuck they're doing in the console/gaming space, so they decide to buy corporations to fill up their failing sub service.
Funny how Nintendo lost BIG time with the Wiiu yet picked themselves straight back up with the Switch and it has been a HUGE success. Microsoft don't know what the fuck they're doing in the console/gaming space, so they decide to buy corporations to fill up their failing sub service.
FalconPunch
Member
3 months later Xbox sales keep falling. Now Spencer is bringing first party games to ps5 killing off any potential reason to own a series console. Perhaps the worst console ceo not only in the history of Microsoft but in all of gaming.
FalconPunch
Member
I hope that everyone can now agree that after the disastrous year for xbox, Phil Spencer and the management team is the problem.
Daneel Elijah
Member
Microsoft org chart:
Xbox is just part of it, and culture is very important. A better team under worse management could easily have worse results if Microsoft does something really stupid. Xbox could have done better, or worse under another leader, but Phil helped save Xbox after the Xbox One debacle. Did he killed the brand after it? I don't know as I don't own Xbox products.
Angry_Megalodon
Member
IMO the issue goes beyond Phil Spencer. You need people with an artistic vision at the top or else they will fall for the "easy money" approach, as they did with XBOX, ruining the brand and the level of those games that were once at the same level as Sony or Nintendo's first-party games.
This is one of the reasons why Western gaming is in shambles. Just have a look at Ubisoft, EA, etc. They don't care about making groundbreaking games. All their talk is services, AI, political posturing, etc. With that mindset, the quality drop is a natural consequence.
This is one of the reasons why Western gaming is in shambles. Just have a look at Ubisoft, EA, etc. They don't care about making groundbreaking games. All their talk is services, AI, political posturing, etc. With that mindset, the quality drop is a natural consequence.
xanaum
Member
Don Mattrick was better than Phil Spencer, the real issue was bad marketing and a terrible team. Phil Spencer himself was there messing things up.
Between 2007 and 2013 (Mattrick's era), Xbox felt like a solid player in the console market, actually fighting. But the guy screwed it all up when he made that dumb comment about there already being an Xbox for broke people and when someone convinced him that always-online was a good idea.
Between 2007 and 2013 (Mattrick's era), Xbox felt like a solid player in the console market, actually fighting. But the guy screwed it all up when he made that dumb comment about there already being an Xbox for broke people and when someone convinced him that always-online was a good idea.
RetroGamingUK
Banned
Everytime someone posts a thread like this I instantly scroll down to see if adamsapple is doing this…
…as always, I'm not disappointed.
Chuck Berry
Gold Member
What an apt description
Last edited:
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Freelance Yakuza
Member
I can't stop laughingEDIT:
EDIT 2: Since
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
I agree and many people still don't realize that MS is just as woke as Ubi, EA, etc. Owning an Xbox One X and now a Series X is would know as I've watched them descend further and further into it.
I still think Spencer and his team has been terrible for Xbox and they needed to fire him years ago. They need at the very least someone like Shuhei Yoshida or ...what's the guy who was head of Sony during the early part of the PS4 gen? They need someone who understands gaming at a deeper level than this clown. Someone who actually loves videogames and not someone who just wants to chase trends.
It's the little things that showed me how terrible Spencer was ...like making Halo free to play and forcing CrossPlay on console gamers (not just in Halo but several other major franchises). Like allowing studios like 343i to disregard massive performance issues affecting the MCC on the Xbox One X which, sometime around when Halo Reach was added in, introduced a bug that ruined the framerate for all the Halo campaigns which rendered those beloved games unplayable. He allowed 343 to ignore the issue so that would remain unfixed until the Series X came out which fixed the problem by brute force.
Like how Spencer tried to get people to believe that Cross Gen games wouldn't be held back graphically compared to next gen only games ...because MS wanted to maximize profits at the expense of quality, which is also probably why the idea of GamePass was so appealing to him. If all went according to plan MS could make "all the money" being the "only game in town" with a Netflix type subscription service. GamePass might've been a great business move ....had they not taken the all eggs in the basket approach to it. They got complete tunnel vision with GamePass to the detriment of many of the things the Xbox brand was doing right! The Baxkwards Compatibility Program? Gone. Promises of the SX being a true next gen powerhouse, focused on delivering cutting age tech? That kind of went out the window too as SX became their "second" most important console. Just another "device" to allow access to GamePass.
Suddenly with Xbox everyone on every platform was just as "special" (in best Dana Carvey voice) to the point where NOBODY was. Come one and come all, join our "ecosystem" as we allow everyone to play as "one big happy family". What made Xbox great has just been so diluted. Back to what I said about CrossPlay ...an Xbox leader who forces console and PC players to compete against each other is no friend to gamers because he is someone who doesn't even care enough to put gamers on an even playing field- not just the fact that m+k is so superior to controller but because of the element of cheats on PC! For 25 years Halo fans have been able to at least get a fair online experience, until the SX generation came along. That's a microcosm of why current Xbox leadership is so bad.
Joe Cool
Gold Member
Aside from the RROD, Xbox 360 was a great console. I passed on the PS3 due to the insane cost of entry at the time. I previously played on PS and PS2. Then Xbone came along and I went right back to Sony with the PlayStation 4. I briefly owned an Xbone when I got an insane deal on one. I traded it in not long after. I have an XSX sitting in my closet. I used it maybe twice. Outside of Forza, there isn't any reason to own an Xbox product for me anymore.
Phil Spencer got some respect for awhile, but I never liked him. To me, he's the fratboy son of a rich executive who was handed the keys to the kingdom despite being a totally aloof bro. He wears blazers and gaming t-shirts. He talks in nonsensical circles. Reading a Phil Spencer interview is like a game of Mad Libs, and you can just feel where the blank spaces are for words, and Phil plugs in financial terms and some gaming bro phrases. Or he's like a jobber wrestler with no promo skills, padding it along with bullshit phraseology.
Interviewer: So Phil, let's talk about the strong quarter that Xbox had, and where the division is heading. There are a few new games scheduled to release, and a few in the development pipeline. How has the strong quarter impacted confidence in new projects going forward, and which properties are looking the strongest right now?
Phil Spencer: Yeah, right, well, it has been a strong quarter, ya know, and we're, and we're poised to deliver great games to our fans, like the Xbox brand prides itself on, ya know, and, we really like the direction we're going in, ya know, it's very tough to stay relevant and trending, and we like that space, yeah, we're in that space and it's good, ya know, like when HALO launched, and we were on that high, yeah, ya know. Xbox fans are the best in the world and ya know, we're going to deliver the best game to them, that's our goal, ya know.
Xbox had it right and then they went the corporate route and here we are. It's not just them, though. Sony and Nintendo are in the same space, difference being they're still in a much better place than Xbox is. Sony and Nintendo have identities, for better or for worse. Xbox used to, even if it was dudebro brown shooters and TV TV TV SPORTS TV COD NFL TV TV TV SPORTS CABLE BOX KINECT.
Phil Spencer got some respect for awhile, but I never liked him. To me, he's the fratboy son of a rich executive who was handed the keys to the kingdom despite being a totally aloof bro. He wears blazers and gaming t-shirts. He talks in nonsensical circles. Reading a Phil Spencer interview is like a game of Mad Libs, and you can just feel where the blank spaces are for words, and Phil plugs in financial terms and some gaming bro phrases. Or he's like a jobber wrestler with no promo skills, padding it along with bullshit phraseology.
Interviewer: So Phil, let's talk about the strong quarter that Xbox had, and where the division is heading. There are a few new games scheduled to release, and a few in the development pipeline. How has the strong quarter impacted confidence in new projects going forward, and which properties are looking the strongest right now?
Phil Spencer: Yeah, right, well, it has been a strong quarter, ya know, and we're, and we're poised to deliver great games to our fans, like the Xbox brand prides itself on, ya know, and, we really like the direction we're going in, ya know, it's very tough to stay relevant and trending, and we like that space, yeah, we're in that space and it's good, ya know, like when HALO launched, and we were on that high, yeah, ya know. Xbox fans are the best in the world and ya know, we're going to deliver the best game to them, that's our goal, ya know.
Xbox had it right and then they went the corporate route and here we are. It's not just them, though. Sony and Nintendo are in the same space, difference being they're still in a much better place than Xbox is. Sony and Nintendo have identities, for better or for worse. Xbox used to, even if it was dudebro brown shooters and TV TV TV SPORTS TV COD NFL TV TV TV SPORTS CABLE BOX KINECT.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
Phil Spencer did nothing wrong.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
He did nothing right either.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
he did nothing wrong if you are play station.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Quality thread.
To counter the derailing attempts, I'd suggest you also incorporate Verified Steam User Reviewers (where available and applicable) if you haven't already integrated those.
To counter the derailing attempts, I'd suggest you also incorporate Verified Steam User Reviewers (where available and applicable) if you haven't already integrated those.
Let us start with Halo.
This Halo graphic for me exemplifies when Phill started to corrupt the grading system.
When the grades dropped a lot, the xbox was ridiculed daily for the "yellow diarrhea" of low grades, the grade averages started to rise even though I didn't notice any increase in quality... I don't see where Halo Infinite can be much better than Halo 5...
But it seemed like everyone had to "balance things" and try to hype Halo Infinite... An example was Alex Bugaga running on the internet to make a video saying that "just release the RT patch and the graphics will be good"
The truth is that all these lies from MS and their trained fanboys or "impartial people trying to balance things" have destroyed the trust of normal people. And irreversible
"Halo 7 has the best graphics in the history of humanity"
consumer: "they promised halo infinite with ray tracing and never delivered, I'm not going to waste my time believing in Halo 7"
Orbital2060
Member
Guy has been boss in tough times. He secured Minecraft and made it what it is today - an evergreen in Japan fx. He made Yakuza and Atlus games come to xbox. Dudes done pretty well as far as Im concerned.
Maddoxswe
Member
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
As a PS fan (actually started gaming on C64 and then Amiga 2000, but consoles wise I was a SEGA Game Gear and Mega Drive / Genesis kid), Xbox 360 nailed launch with an overall offering that was just kick ass. The UI, the music visualiser by industry legend Jeff Minter, limited but still workable BC, and next-generation graphics (even at 480p on an old CRT Gears was a looker!). It just kicked all kinds of ass… and Oblivion was coming
.This made even me frtothing at the mount for its launch despite price not being so cheap as people make it be: HDD was now optional and expensive (for only 20 GB) and so was WiFi support (which was between 79-99€, so adding both drive and WiFi support started raising costs). HDMI required to buy the redesign model so adding some more to the cost to sell and upgrade (which I did not do btw).
If you were interested in the HD movies craze it was another 100-150€ (forgot the price but I think it was less than 200€) on top again.
All in all PS3 was quite cheap for what it provided and let's say more robust as a console too…
Still, the MS that launched the Xbox 360 with Xbox LIVE in the background really gave it a great shot. By launching with that product about a year before PS3 (due to PS3 production issues) they had the only and a compelling next-gen product on the market.
Last edited:
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
User score for Halo: Infinite jumped far more than the metacritic one did, but as others have reported before it is not like MS does not do any kind of astroturfing so user scores could be a bit suspect too.
General feeling though, I think people were a lot angrier at the bait and switch of Halo 5 and Infinite did show some promise as they started playing it and the initial word of mouth was not horrible at all. If people were to vote again now though, maybe it would dip again.
Humdinger
Member
You might be thinking of Jack Tretton. He was good. Andrew House, too. Those guys + Yoshida made a good team. Unfortunately, it isn't half as good today.
Last edited:
Kings Field
Banned
CosmicHusky
Member
I started disliking Phil Spencer when I didn't get a photo together with him at the Xbox FanFest. That's the moment when Xbox failed for me. 
FalconPunch
Member
TheGodfather07
Member
I don't think we should pin all the blame on one or two people when Microsoft as a whole are just shite. The problems started all the way back in 2010 when the focus shifted from core gamers to the mass market with that garbage waste of time kinect. Anyone who remembers will know that it went steadily downhill since.
Last edited: