(Assassin's Creed Shadows #1 for 2nd week )UK Charts: Old Favourites Keep Nintendo In The Race As Xenoblade Plummets From Top 10

DeafTourette

DeafTourette

Perpetually Offended
calico said:
Yes, the people currently being vocal wouldn't be vocal and the 'other side' would be instead. I think sales would likely be better because I think the two sides are not equal in number or impact on game sales.
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Ask yourself that question... "Why would sales be better?" Go beyond number.

Better yet, ask yourself "why is one acceptable but the other (Yasuke and his African skin) is political?"
 
Lucifers Beard

Lucifers Beard

Member
Really glad to see Atomfall at No.2 on the list. Great game that I hope gets more exposure.

AC Shadows I have a bit of interest in this one, I'm not a massive fan of the series but I've not played anything in the franchise since Odyssey so would be tempted at the £20 price point, if not only to walk around and take in the awesome looking graphics on PS5 Pro. No rush to get it though.
 
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calico

Member
Lethal01 said:
Maybe that's true if you only consider literal magic to be the fiction, otherwise its backwards, Assassins creed is a fantasy first with the real cold hard facts tucked away as collectibles.
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I think that's really only true from a narrative perspective. The world (most of it) in AC is intended to be a realistic depiction of a historical setting, which is why they're able to easily repurpose them for the Discovery Tour stuff.

If you just take a walk around a random village in Shadows, probably the most out of place thing on screen will be the African samurai. In Nioh it will probably be the demons everywhere.
 
Kilau

Kilau

Member
Shambalakan said:
Assassin's Creed as a historically accurate series:

This is Pope Alexander VI with some weird magical tools:

xzcxc3e.jpg

This is Pythagoras as a 150 years old man who gives a magical staff to his daughter that makes her an immortal!

xc4fasd.jpg
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That's great and all, totally ignores that Ubi talks about their historical accuracy when they want to. Tell me, is Yasuke the first and only historical figure to be an AC protagonist?
 
Shambalakan

Shambalakan

Member
Kilau said:
That's great and all, totally ignores that Ubi talks about their historical accuracy when they want to. Tell me, is Yasuke the first and only historical figure to be an AC protagonist?
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Yasuke is the first real protagonist and he's much more realistic than a real character like 150 years old Pythagoras in AC Odyssey. We don't have enough information about Yasuke and Ubisoft can tell their story and still more believable than a Pope using futuristic weapon or AC Odyssey protagonist fighting with Medusa.
Was "everything" about Leonardo da Vinci in AC2 based on real events? No. And people didn't care. but Yasuke...
All AC games are combinations of realistic characters/events and fictions and AC Shadows is like that too.
 
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calico

Member
DeafTourette said:
Ask yourself that question... "Why would sales be better?" Go beyond number.
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I said why. While Team Woke is noisy and is artificially amplified by most (and until recently, all) major social media platforms, under all of that I don't think they are very numerous and I don't think they are -or were ever- a significant proportion of the actual gaming audience.

DeafTourette said:
Better yet, ask yourself "why is one acceptable but the other (Yasuke and his African skin) is political?"
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Because I think for many, a developer deciding the race of the protagonist based on what will most appeal to the audience they are selling to is more understandable / less annoying than it being decided based on the developer's desire to push their political agenda (which is frequently not shared by their audience).

I also think this is why a non-Western dev may not have provoked the same response: coming from a non-Western dev, there would not be the automatic assumption that the decision was motivated by, and indicative of, a political agenda.
 
Kilau

Kilau

Member
Shambalakan said:
Yasuke is the first real protagonist and he's much more realistic than a real character like 150 years old Pythagoras in AC Odyssey. We don't have enough information about Yasuke and Ubisoft can tell their story and still more believable than a Pope using futuristic weapon or AC Odyssey protagonist fighting with Medusa.
Was "everything" about Leonardo da Vinci in AC2 based on real events? No. And people didn't care. but Yasuke...
All AC games are combinations of realistic characters/events and fictions and AC Shadows is like that too.
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Leonardo wasn't a protagonist in AC2. Like it or not, ubi brought the scrutiny on themselves with the choice of Yasuke.
 
Bumblebeetuna

Bumblebeetuna

Member
Kilau said:
That's great and all, totally ignores that Ubi talks about their historical accuracy when they want to. Tell me, is Yasuke the first and only historical figure to be an AC protagonist?
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Why shouldn’t they talk about the historical accuracy in the games? AC has always had historically accurate things in their games, it’s just that they are always mixed in with batshit insane things that aren’t accurate. Because it’s a video game.

But that’s always been the appeal of AC. There are things in there that are done well with a nod to history.
 
C

calico

Member
Kilau said:
Like it or not, ubi brought the scrutiny on themselves with the choice of Yasuke.
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Yeah and iirc at some point they explained that they liked Yasuke as a protagonist because so little was known about him that he could be a blank slate and allow them to tell a cool story, which is an odd thing to say when every other AC protagonist is a totally fictional character, ie. the blankest slate possible.
 
Kilau

Kilau

Member
Bumblebeetuna said:
Why shouldn’t they talk about the historical accuracy in the games? AC has always had historically accurate things in their games, it’s just that they are always mixed in with batshit insane things that aren’t accurate. Because it’s a video game.

But that’s always been the appeal of AC. There are things in there that are done well with a nod to history.
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I never said they shouldn't. I'm taking this game and it's choices in context to the entire series.
 
DeafTourette

DeafTourette

Perpetually Offended
calico said:
I said why. While Team Woke is noisy and is artificially amplified by most (and until recently, all) major social media platforms, under all of that I don't think they are very numerous and I don't think they are -or were ever- a significant proportion of the actual gaming audience.


Because I think for many, a developer deciding the race of the protagonist based on what will most appeal to the audience they are selling to is more understandable / less annoying than it being decided based on the developer's desire to push their political agenda (which is frequently not shared by their audience).

I also think this is why a non-Western dev may not have provoked the same response: coming from a non-Western dev, there would not be the automatic assumption that the decision was motivated by, and indicative of, a political agenda.
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So a WHITE character is more appealing than a black character and is not indicative of a political agenda. Despite black people being among the global majority...
 
Lethal01

Lethal01

Member
calico said:
If you just take a walk around a random village in Shadows, probably the most out of place thing on screen will be the African samurai.
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Nah it would be the buildings from a hundreds year in the future not the guy who at least existed at that time in Japan.
 
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DeafTourette

DeafTourette

Perpetually Offended
calico said:
Yes, correct. 'The global population' is not in any way representative of the audience for Western video games, obviously.
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That makes no sense. Am I not part of this western audience? Am I not a gamer? Are there not black gamers? I thought color didn't matter in a videogame?

Put it another way... Why is that more acceptable to have a white protagonist than any other skin color? I'm asking genuinely because I don't think you've realized that that's my underlying question.
 
TGO

TGO

Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
Although repetitive from what I played ACshadows seem good so far.
Missions are a bit mundane though.
 
Toons

Toons

Member
Gaiff said:
Don't know if I agree with this, but I know a lot of the people hiding behind the "we want a Japanese male protagonist" excuse would be singing a different tune.
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The real kicker is that even a sci fi game set in 2175 or something with no real world implication or cultural basis STILL is "controversial" among certain circles if it starts a black person or a woman.

See Intergalactic
 
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calico

Member
DeafTourette said:
That makes no sense. Am I not part of this western audience? Am I not a gamer? Are there not black gamers? I thought color didn't matter in a videogame?
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Which part doesn't make sense?
I have no idea.
I have no idea.
Yes.
What made you think that?

DeafTourette said:
Put it another way... Why is that more acceptable to have a white protagonist than any other skin color? I'm asking genuinely because I don't think you've realized that that's my underlying question.
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I realised it and already answered why I think it would be seen differently in this case. I think the motivation behind a white protagonist would widely be assumed to be commercial (more acceptable) rather than political (less acceptable). 'They probably made the protagonist white to appeal to the predominantly white audience' would be a reasonable assumption to make. 'They probably made the protagonist black to appeal to the predominantly white audience' is not an assumption many would make.

The decision to go for a black protagonist here could be motivated by genuine creative reasons or by political agenda (woke ideology). People will draw their own conclusions there, but like I said earlier, I think a non-Western dev would be more likely to get the benefit of the doubt in that regard.

As for 'any other skin color', I think an Asian male protagonist would easily have been the least controversial of all, given the roles and setting being portrayed.
 
C

calico

Member
Woopah said:
It beat every other game released so far this year (at least in terms of retail sales).
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Yeah, but is there any game in that group which it's particularly noteworthy for AC to have beaten? Stating which games it beat would probably undermine the conclusion the article reaches and which it wants the reader to come away with.
 
Woopah

Woopah

Member
calico said:
Yeah, but is there any game in that group which it's particularly noteworthy for AC to have beaten? Stating which games it beat would probably undermine the conclusion the article reaches and which it wants the reader to come away with.
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My takeaway is that it beat what it should have beaten: Kingdom Come II, Donkey Kong, PGA Tour, Civ VII and Like A Dragon.

I agree that the article is hyping it too much. They should have stuck to what Mat said.
 
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