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[asariN7]

It's been 4 years since my relationship with Sony became stale and unsatisfying.
It only took Rockstar to come by in a tight yellow dress to remind me that I've been living a lie,that there's more to life than 60 fps, that I should embrace my true self and desires.
God, I'm such a graphics whore.

 

[Darius87]

so df thinks gta trailer is made all from cutcenes? if so.

 

[asariN7]

This gen has been a lie.

 

[PeteBull]

MGS V ran at 60fps on PS4, and it was one of the better-looking games on that system. Meaning even if it ran at 30fps, it'd still look good. Kojima and Co look to have done something similar with DS2. He's got wizards in his crew.

MGS5 was a crossgen release, bro, game was made with ps360 in mind, thats the reason the ps4/xbox one could run it at 60.
It was so light on both cpu and gpu even entry lvl rig could run it:

fricken i3 4130 and gtx 750ti, we all know how cheap and weak that hardware was even back in its launch year yet it could hold very close to stable 1080p60.

 

[PeteBull]

Cerny is no longer the wizard I used to think he is after the ps5 pro. Pssr honestly kinda sucks. Indiana Jones and doom the dark ages should be cooking on the Pro and yet are a like for like match with ps5 settings.

People are finally starting to understand my complaints about this console after the months of April and now May with game after game on Pro being kinda crap.

Yup ps4pr0 at 400$/€ was such a good deal vs base ps4 compared to what we got with ps5pr0 for 700$/800€ discless vs base ps5, fricken barely up to 40% raw gpu improvement is tiny.

 

[H . R . 2]

so df thinks gta trailer is made all from cutcenes? if so.

I believe the episode came out before the Rockstar tweet , or perhaps the tweet was actually a reaction to the DF analysis
in defense of both sides, the gameplay segments were edited in ever so subtly and beautifully so, mind you , like the first person bit or the explosion scene, or the truck chase
and the graphics are so top-notch that they couldn't help but think it was all cutscenes


PS. my overjoyed yet fragile psyche hasn't be able to get over all the RT in the scene with Jason driving through the neighbourhood. I have never been so angry with the industry and so happy and excited about a game at the same time

 

[SlimySnake]

I believe the episode came out before the Rockstar tweet , or perhaps the tweet was actually a reaction to the DF analysis
in defense of both sides, the gameplay segments were edited in ever so subtly and beautifully so, mind you , like the first person bit or the explosion scene, or the truck chase
and the graphics are so top-notch that they couldn't help but think it was all cutscenes

I feel like people have forgotten all of the GTA5 trailers. they were all shot like this. rockstar just takes gameplay missions and shoots them like they are cutscenes, but they are all actually gameplay taken from setpieces.

PS. my overjoyed yet fragile psyche hasn't be able to get over all the RT in the scene with Jason driving through the neighbourhood. I have never been so angry with the industry and so happy and excited about a game at the same time

I havent been angry at the industry since around 2023. To me, a late 2022 release like callisto which i only played in 2023 was the turning point. Then Jedi Survivor, FF16, Starfield, Alan Wake 2, and Avatar ushered in the new gen, and i havent been upset at anyone other than sony studios and japanese studios since.

I mean we just had AC shadows, a legit watershed moment for console graphics rendering with rtgi, reflections, virtualized geometry, hair physics, and the best weather effects in gaming... all done on consoles. Albeit at 30 fps. I cant be mad at the industry when so many devs have gotten out of their way to put in their hearts and souls into rendering features ive been begging sony studios all gen for. Mafia trailer released the same day as Death Stranding 2 previews and shows nanite at its best.

I used to rag on about talent drain in this industry and im happy to admit i was wrong. i actually think the talent is still there even at sony studios, their leaders are just leading them astray. no different from nintendo.

 

[H . R . 2]

I feel like people have forgotten all of the GTA5 trailers. they were all shot like this. rockstar just takes gameplay missions and shoots them like they are cutscenes, but they are all actually gameplay taken from setpieces.



I havent been angry at the industry since around 2023. To me, a late 2022 release like callisto which i only played in 2023 was the turning point. Then Jedi Survivor, FF16, Starfield, Alan Wake 2, and Avatar ushered in the new gen, and i havent been upset at anyone other than sony studios and japanese studios since.

I mean we just had AC shadows, a legit watershed moment for console graphics rendering with rtgi, reflections, virtualized geometry, hair physics, and the best weather effects in gaming... all done on consoles. Albeit at 30 fps. I cant be mad at the industry when so many devs have gotten out of their way to put in their hearts and souls into rendering features ive been begging sony studios all gen for. Mafia trailer released the same day as Death Stranding 2 previews and shows nanite at its best.

I used to rag on about talent drain in this industry and im happy to admit i was wrong. i actually think the talent is still there even at sony studios, their leaders are just leading them astray. no different from nintendo.

maybe I didn't express myself as well as I'd hoped , I am not complaining about the lack of talent, passion maybe, but not talent. BUT I AM complaining about all this talent being mismanaged or not given the creative and technical liberty they deserve [ e.g. liberty taken with the bold technical decisions made during The Order 1886 development and Callisto, The Ascent ].

So yes there is talent out there, they are just being overlooked and even shunned [EA replacing 300 of its developers with AI]. it is maddening how the industry is being run, and you wouldn't be sane not feel distraught about all this talent going to waste. just look at the state of Sony first party studios and tell me it doesn't anger you. you were swearing at Kojima yesterday

that's why Rockstar is the perfect storm, the perfect combination of talent, passion, managerial expertise and vision. the way Ubi used to be [ Shadows would have underperformed had it not been for all the pressure Ubi was under ]...or the team behind most of the titles you mentioned...and THE MATRIX demo and that was 4 years ago and a team of no more than 80 people. so it IS possible to make such phenomenal looking art...which begs the question : WHY not then? mismanagement

 

[SlimySnake]

maybe I didn't express myself as well as I'd hoped , I am not complaining about the lack of talent, passion maybe, but not talent. BUT I AM complaining about all this talent being mismanaged or not given the creative and technical liberty they deserve [ e.g. liberty taken with the bold technical decisions made during The Order 1886 development and Callisto, The Ascent ].

So yes there is talent out there, they are just being overlooked and even shunned [EA replacing 300 of its developers with AI]. it is maddening how the industry is being run, and you wouldn't be sane not feel distraught about all this talent going to waste. just look at the state of Sony first party studios and tell me it doesn't anger you. you were swearing at Kojima yesterday

that's why Rockstar is the perfect storm, the perfect combination of talent, passion, managerial expertise and vision. the way Ubi used to be [ Shadows would have underperformed had it not been for all the pressure Ubi was under ]...or the team behind most of the titles you mentioned...and THE MATRIX demo and that was 4 years ago and a team of no more than 80 people. so it IS possible to make such phenomenal looking art...which begs the question : WHY not then? mismanagement

Oh I am angry at Sony. I just think they are as irrelevant to graphics or setting new standards as Nintendo have been over the last two decades. Not a big fan of Japanese studios either.

To me, the industry on the whole is on the up swing. Yes, there are issues with greedy pubs, UE5 performance, poor PC ports, and gaas, but in terms of graphics fidelity, i feel like we turned a corner in 2023. Ive had a great time with visuals the last couple of years.

And just an aside, i rage about greedy pubs all the time, but Ubisoft delayed Ac shadows out of the holiday slot for the first time in what? 18 years. thats progress to me. EA also delayed Star Wars, out of their fiscal year, but stig fucked it up and released it in a shoddy state just 4 weeks later instead of taking the 3 months EA had given him. MS allowed Bethesda to delay starfield by a full year and it was the most polished game bethesda has ever released. Avowed was also allowed to be delayed out of the holiday season. Same goes for Fable. And now gtA6. These greedy publishers have had their issues, but at least they are now willing to delay games out of holiday seasons and especially EA who released Mass Effect 3, Andromeda and Anthem in feb-march in a completely broken state just to boost their fiscal year numbers. thats progress to me.

of course, sony has taken their place. they forced Insomniac to gut the game just so it could ship during the holiday season. but thats sony. everyone else seems to have figured out that big games need extra time.

 

[Grildon Tundy]

MGS5 looked like shit in 2015, even max settings on pc. Ground zeroes was far better looking and they never achieved this fidelity in full game.

lol it looked last gen as fuck next to games released that Gen. what are we doing?

MGS5 was a crossgen release, bro, game was made with ps360 in mind, thats the reason the ps4/xbox one could run it at 60.
It was so light on both cpu and gpu even entry lvl rig could run it:

fricken i3 4130 and gtx 750ti, we all know how cheap and weak that hardware was even back in its launch year yet it could hold very close to stable 1080p60.

I said "better-looking", not "best". It's not on par with RDR2, Last of Us 2, or Horizon: Zero Dawn, but I'd put MGS V in the top 50%.

MGS V is to the PS4 like the Horizon: Forbidden West is to the PS5. Cross-gen, well-stylized, will eventually be outclassed, and is well-optimized for the current gen.

 

[Msamy]

The funny thing that some Japanese developers which we thought they will never have current gen graphics tech and want them to switch to UE5, upgraded their engines with ray tracing techs while sony first party studios struggled with SSR and baked lighting lol,

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

I got that "next gen" feeling from Mafia in some parts.

 

[Lootlord]

I got that "next gen" feeling from Mafia in some parts.

Some yeah.. LOD and draw distance looks like PS4 though... that's kinda unacceptable even without mesh shaders or nanite.

 

[TheRedRiders]

I said "better-looking", not "best". It's not on par with RDR2, Last of Us 2, or Horizon: Zero Dawn, but I'd put MGS V in the top 50%.

MGS V is to the PS4 like the Horizon: Forbidden West is to the PS5. Cross-gen, well-stylized, will eventually be outclassed, and is well-optimized for the current gen.

Agreed, playing MGSV as we speak and its visuals still hold up today.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

Sony

I said "better-looking", not "best". It's not on par with RDR2, Last of Us 2, or Horizon: Zero Dawn, but I'd put MGS V in the top 50%.

MGS V is to the PS4 like the Horizon: Forbidden West is to the PS5. Cross-gen, well-stylized, will eventually be outclassed, and is well-optimized for the current gen.

I agree I and my friends were very happy with MGSV when it came out on ps4 early in 2015. 60 fps was impressive and good use of photogrammetry for the time

 

[Msamy]

Sony santa monica new studio Head lol,

 

[realcool]

Sony santa monica new studio Head lol,

 

[BlownUpRich]

yeah, ive been saying this. jason confirmed this way back in 2019 that rockstar is a one game studio every since rdr2 went into development. im sure there are some dudes out there drawing up plans for the story and tech, and the gta online team, but jason specifically said that all 7 studios with their 3,000+ devs worked on rdr2 full time for 5 years.

Anyway, did you guys notice that character models and other things have improved since the last trailer. people after the first trailer were saying that it will be downgraded but rockstar has somehow managed to upgrade several things.

Rockstar May Have ‘Upgraded’ Lucia And Jason’s Faces In ‘GTA 6’ Trailer

One idea players have put forth is a series that Jason and Lucia look different from the original GTA 6 trailer. Is that true.

www.forbes.com

Absolutely! I am shocked because it really is an upgrade in almost all fronts, and I had a suspicion that the 1st trailer was touched up and that it was too good to be true, but boy did Rockstar prove me wrong! They always do it man, they're such the gaming GOATS.

 

[BlownUpRich]

Comparing these to jason and Lucia sony first party future is really promising

Fuck this game, sometimes it makes me depressed whenever I think about it, it really reminds me of how Insomniac is a shill of its former self, relying on Marvel names with very safe design choices for the masses to latch onto, and 60 fps or 100fps modes while literally destroying the next-gen leap they could've had with Spider Man 2, we all know how Wolverine will turn out, a 60 fps PS4+ slop with polished movement & controls, but with the world depth of a puddle.

 

[VAVA Mk2]

Sony santa monica new studio Head lol,

Executive Producer during the mid-stages of Halo Infinite development at 343i? Oof have fun with that garbage!

 

[powder]

so df thinks gta trailer is made all from cutcenes? if so.

I think there are some points where you can tell it's either in-game or a transition to in-game is about to happen. Like when Jason is walking into his house after fixing the roof. Or the part where Lucia is firing a rocket off the back of a truck. I'd say most of it is in-engine cinematics, though.

 

[powder]

Executive Producer during the mid-stages of Halo Infinite development at 343i? Oof have fun with that garbage!

Weird. Was Barlog not the studio head? Maybe Sony gave him his own studio.

 

[Msamy]

Weird. Was Barlog not the studio head? Maybe Sony gave him his own studio.

Barlog is the studio creative director

 

[powder]

Barlog is the studio creative director

Shit, from all the pomp around the guy you'd think he was running shit. Why doesn't he "creatively direct" his next fucking game out the door already

 

[Msamy]

Those pictures are from wolverine millstone 13 alpha build I don't think the final version are gonna surpass them on graphics

Spoiler

 

[Msamy]

All sony first party studios need to learn from the this gdc tech talk about AC Shadows

Rendering 'Assassin's Creed Shadows'

Assassin's Creed Shadows is a large systemic open world game with dynamic time of day cycles, a systemic weather system, and seasons. it is the first next gen only Assassin's Creed game. It's built on the next gen iteration of the Anvil engine and...

gdcvault.com

 

[SlimySnake]

Those pictures are from wolverine millstone 13 alpha build I don't think the final version are gonna surpass them on graphics

Spoiler

nah, it will look way better than this. expect ratchet quality graphics since this isnt an open world game like spiderman 2.

 

[SlimySnake]

All sony first party studios need to learn from the this gdc tech talk about AC Shadows

Rendering 'Assassin's Creed Shadows'

Assassin's Creed Shadows is a large systemic open world game with dynamic time of day cycles, a systemic weather system, and seasons. it is the first next gen only Assassin's Creed game. It's built on the next gen iteration of the Anvil engine and...

gdcvault.com

hey would you look at that. When ubisoft comes to this conclusion before sony studios, you know things are bad.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

Those pictures are from wolverine millstone 13 alpha build I don't think the final version are gonna surpass them on graphics

Spoiler

Looks like cross gen trash

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

I'm still hoping that I'll be happy with DS2 on Pro but in the back of my head I'll be saying I know you guys could've done better if you had used rtgi

 

[Flabagast]

Yep think also that the RTGI dream for DS2 (and Decima Engine) is dead unfortunately. Still should be a good looking game

 

[BlownUpRich]

I mean look at the INSANE amount of RT reflection and AO [ around the sunshade and the sunglasses] , different types of transparency, different types of hair [and the strand system], the GI outside the car , my GOD

I am gonna take a month off work when it comes out

Exactly! This shot is by far the most impressive one this generation so far, the fact that all of this is happening IN AN OPEN-WORLD is something that only Rockstar can do!

 

[SlimySnake]

Looks like cross gen trash

It will be using realtime global illumination. Even if it isn't rtgi it will be like software lumen, or kcd2's realtime Gi.

I'm also a big fan of starfields realtime gi. Forza too.

 

[Msamy]

nah, it will look way better than this. expect ratchet quality graphics since this isnt an open world game like spiderman 2.

I hope that, insomniac is the only ps studio that invest in new tech this gen

 

[AeonGaidenRaiden]

This gen has been a lie.

Reminds me of Baldurs Gate 3 hate from other developers when they were trying to convince everyone how its unrealistic to expect that level of quality at all times. Yeah, put your head down, work, dont spend time on twitter and maybe you will release a quality game without thinking about your quaterly earnings while the game is still in its beta stage.

 

[Thick Thighs Save Lives]

All sony first party studios need to learn from the this gdc tech talk about AC Shadows

Rendering 'Assassin's Creed Shadows'

Assassin's Creed Shadows is a large systemic open world game with dynamic time of day cycles, a systemic weather system, and seasons. it is the first next gen only Assassin's Creed game. It's built on the next gen iteration of the Anvil engine and...

gdcvault.com

There's some interesting stuff in there about their RT implementation including how it performs on consoles, etc.

 

[GymWolf]

Didn't people told me that rockstar doesn't do downgrades??

Is this true?

 

[PeteBull]

Sony

I agree I and my friends were very happy with MGSV when it came out on ps4 early in 2015. 60 fps was impressive and good use of photogrammetry for the time

Hey, i still got mgs5 copy for my old trusty ps4, it looked really impressive back then, considering 1080p60, and its still one of best if not best "balance" between res, fps and fisual fidelity for ps4, just saying it had extremly good engine made for 60fps hence even weak af ps4 could run it so well in 1080p60 and same goes to back then lowend(to not say entry lvl) pc rigs.
In todays world dev would probably do some silly 540p upscaling drs for 60fps game/mode and game would still drop frames, especially for open world game like mgs5

Again- all that goodness came from mgs5 being crossgen- devs had to really put work into engine, it was actually amazing engine for 60fps games

 

[PeteBull]

Didn't people told me that rockstar doesn't do downgrades??

Is this true?

They definitively do downgrades and even if we compare 2011 trailers vs 2024 pc game maxed, proof here in the vid:

 

[GymWolf]

They definitively do downgrades and even if we compare 2011 trailers vs 2024 pc game maxed, proof here in the vid:

So why the fuck a lot of people say the opposite?

 

[PeteBull]

So why the fuck a lot of people say the opposite?

Coz its not as obvious as with for example witcher3 or some impressive ubisoft games downgrades, the rockstar downgrades are more subtle, usually fewer pedestarians, fewer assets, asset quality changed for the worse in some cases, its not big huge downgrade across the board that every1 gonna notice

 

[GymWolf]

Coz its not as obvious as with for example witcher3 or some impressive ubisoft games downgrades, the rockstar downgrades are more subtle, usually fewer pedestarians, fewer assets, asset quality changed for the worse in some cases, its not big huge downgrade across the board that every1 gonna notice

Still pretty noticeable to me in a game where having a lot of npcs everywhere is kinda the point.

 

[PeteBull]

Still pretty noticeable to me in a game where having a lot of npcs everywhere is kinda the point.

Keep in mind most of us here are razor sharp eyes graphic whores(only good kind of whore imho ) even vs avg gaffer who all are hardcore gamers we are elite of the elite, hell some gaffers posted switch2 screens here, tells u all of how avg gaffer is equipped/how sensitive they are vs regular posters in this tread, not to mention casual gamer who wont even notice downgrade of killzone 2/motorstorm reveal trailers to actual ingame footage, hell i remember on gaf back before witcher3 launch some gaffer asked if this is ingame footage or cgi:

 

[AeonGaidenRaiden]

Not sure how much downgrade GTA6 would get but as far as NPC density, it is possible, just with fewer details, then again this is all on newer hardware. This is a 10 year old game:

 

[mrMUR_96]

Just some nuggets from LevianthanGamer2 I thought were worth sharing, specifically regarding Rockstar's engine, 30 and 60 FPS targets and some rendering stuff.

I'm sorry but saying GTA 6 isn't 60fps because of storage space for animations is a wild take, how does that even make any sense.

 

[Gonzito]

Not sure how much downgrade GTA6 would get but as far as NPC density, it is possible, just with fewer details, then again this is all on newer hardware. This is a 10 year old game:

The problem with Unity is the popping and draw distance. It suck to walk around and see everything loading in front of you. It's a great looking game but I wish we got a fix for that issue

 

[mrMUR_96]

Those pictures are from wolverine millstone 13 alpha build I don't think the final version are gonna surpass them on graphics

Spoiler

This is clearly very WIP, the volumetrics in the room look almost bugged, the noise in the reflection is super high, final product will definitely be way more polished and look better. I just hope it isn't rushed out the door like SM2 as that was so uneven looking.

 

[Audiophile]

I don't get why there'd be a limit to the discs, it's about $3 per 1xUHD100 (or 2xBD50 for XB), [if their intent is to put the full launch code on the disc, which I hope is the case] they can mark it up by $5 for one extra disc or $10 for 2-3 extra discs and pocket the extra pennies, folk's 'll pay...it's GTA.

Convenience isn't an argument as it's a one-time thing to put each disc in at install and you'll just use a single disc as a key to play it like any other physical game and cases are available with extra disc spindles for a few extra pennies.

 

[Msamy]

They definitively do downgrades and even if we compare 2011 trailers vs 2024 pc game maxed, proof here in the vid:

No, gta v release looks actually better than it's trailers, you just share a bullshit comparison video, here is a far better one,

Even their resent game rdr 2 looks better in many aspects than it's trailers

People's really need to stop debating rockstar, their are one of few developers who releases their games with better graphics than it's trailers

 

[nkill20]

I like Rockstar but the idea they don't downgrade is laughable, hell, id and Imsoniac have downgraded, just more subtly than say EA or Ubisoft. Game graphics dont get upgraded unless its a multiplayer game.