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[Spyxos]

Hugo trailer:



I actually like his design and moveset, very stylish. Unfortunately we got 2.0 coming up, and his niche is unproven at best, irrelevant at worst. Wish he was the free 5* male we got instead of Haramusa.

I like his fighting style too, but since I only have trigger it makes little sense to me to pull for him.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

Def pulling for hugo

 

[Thick Thighs Save Lives]

Not sure if I want to post this as its own thread, but it looks like ZZZ has underperformed internal expectations. Some of the sourcing of the info seems a bit sketchy as they use Sensor Tower data, which only accounts for mobile spending, and we know that ZZZ has a significant portion of its playerbase on console and PC which is not tracked in this data. Anyways, there's a lot more stuff in there that's interesting, so I recommend giving it a full read.

Zenless Zone Zero, its most recent foray, did not perform on par with the company's expectations, according to two people with knowledge of the company. In its launch quarter, it earned less than half its anime predecessors' opening quarter revenue, according to Sensor Tower.

"They're dealing with cannibalization," said Sensor Tower analyst Sam Aune. "The launch of Zenless Zone Zero shows they may be approaching market saturation for what they can do with role-playing games."

 

[Icymanipulator]

I hope ZZZ stays active, of all their games it's my favorite.

 

[Pejo]

Not sure if I want to post this as its own thread, but it looks like ZZZ has underperformed internal expectations. Some of the sourcing of the info seems a bit sketchy as they use Sensor Tower data, which only accounts for mobile spending, and we know that ZZZ has a significant portion of its playerbase on console and PC which is not tracked in this data. Anyways, there's a lot more stuff in there that's interesting, so I recommend giving it a full read.

The game still doesn't look like it has its own identity. They went hard on the TV stuff at launch despite the beta players saying they didn't like it, then they overcorrected by removing it from the game almost entirely, making it another bog standard party oriented character action game. There are so many of this genre at this point, it's hard to really be a breakout success without an X-factor, and TV mode wasn't it. Just off the top of my head, you have: Honkai Impact 3, Aether Gazer, PGR, Black Beacon, Duet Night Abyss. And that's not even counting the open-world ones which generally are more positively received because of the depth of content compared to instance-based arena fighters like ZZZ.

I think ZZZ has some of the better character designs out of all of HoYo's games, but the combat is kinda shallow, and now headed into "This is the team we made, you will roll all of the characters and then you will do the rotation we designed" era. I think they're grasping at CN nationalist stuff by moving us to "totally not China" for 2.0 because they think it will at least temporarily boost revenue in CN. And they're probably right.

Still, even if the game is underperforming, it's still millions of dollars per month and usually top 10 in the charts. Can't cry too hard for HoYo with those results.

If the world were just, I'd like to see Star Rail as the underperforming one because it absolutely does not deserve the success it continues to have, with how lazy the developers have been the past 6 months and the insane powercreep they're dishing out.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

I don't think it's cannibalisation, their other games are just far more casual friendly, in genshin you basically just walk around watching dialogue after dialogue scene, and then you occasionally head into combat with a trial character that's strong enough to beat the dungeon, star rail is a turn based RPG, so it appeals to team building and careful decision making.

ZZZ is combatcombatcombat, there's a reason why character action games don't sell gangbusters; people suck at them.
Just looking at ZZZ at a glance it looks like those games, and it can get pretty difficult in later content, relfex wise. Whenever a game is reflex based, casuals kinda drop off.

 

[Spyxos]

Not sure if I want to post this as its own thread, but it looks like ZZZ has underperformed internal expectations. Some of the sourcing of the info seems a bit sketchy as they use Sensor Tower data, which only accounts for mobile spending, and we know that ZZZ has a significant portion of its playerbase on console and PC which is not tracked in this data. Anyways, there's a lot more stuff in there that's interesting, so I recommend giving it a full read.

I already thought that it would not be too successful. If you look at the YouTube and Twitch numbers. And it will probably never appeal to the masses, it is far too fast and hard to read what is happening for that.

I also believe that Wuwa has taken a few players away.

 

[Wonko_C]

The game still doesn't look like it has its own identity. They went hard on the TV stuff at launch despite the beta players saying they didn't like it, then they overcorrected by removing it from the game almost entirely, making it another bog standard party oriented character action game. There are so many of this genre at this point, it's hard to really be a breakout success without an X-factor, and TV mode wasn't it. Just off the top of my head, you have: Honkai Impact 3, Aether Gazer, PGR, Black Beacon, Duet Night Abyss. And that's not even counting the open-world ones which generally are more positively received because of the depth of content compared to instance-based arena fighters like ZZZ.

I think ZZZ has some of the better character designs out of all of HoYo's games, but the combat is kinda shallow, and now headed into "This is the team we made, you will roll all of the characters and then you will do the rotation we designed" era. I think they're grasping at CN nationalist stuff by moving us to "totally not China" for 2.0 because they think it will at least temporarily boost revenue in CN. And they're probably right.

Still, even if the game is underperforming, it's still millions of dollars per month and usually top 10 in the charts. Can't cry too hard for HoYo with those results.

If the world were just, I'd like to see Star Rail as the underperforming one because it absolutely does not deserve the success it continues to have, with how lazy the developers have been the past 6 months and the insane powercreep they're dishing out.

Gonna have to try a few of those out because of what I've played, none of them compare to the fast-paced, satisfying and crunchy feel of the combat in ZZZ, HI3rd included.

ZZZ feels to me more like a good fighting game than a standard hack 'n slash.

 

[Agent_4Seven]

Not sure if I want to post this as its own thread, but it looks like ZZZ has underperformed internal expectations. Some of the sourcing of the info seems a bit sketchy as they use Sensor Tower data, which only accounts for mobile spending, and we know that ZZZ has a significant portion of its playerbase on console and PC which is not tracked in this data. Anyways, there's a lot more stuff in there that's interesting, so I recommend giving it a full read.

I see it as a good thing. Why? The less successful mobile versions will be, the less mobile-like feeling the game will have or potentially the game won't even be available on mobile at all. The fact that ZZZ is more popular on consoles and PC clearly indicates that it should've been PC and console game only (not to mention that it plays and looks the best on PC and Consoles) + you can port the game to 3 platforms so that's 4 platforms in total incl. Switch and a shit ton of potential whales and dolphins.

I'll say this, based on my own experience, ZZZ is only good on mobile for two specific things if you temporarily can't play the game on PC or consoles - dailies and simple mats farming in HIA.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Not sure if I want to post this as its own thread, but it looks like ZZZ has underperformed internal expectations. Some of the sourcing of the info seems a bit sketchy as they use Sensor Tower data, which only accounts for mobile spending, and we know that ZZZ has a significant portion of its playerbase on console and PC which is not tracked in this data. Anyways, there's a lot more stuff in there that's interesting, so I recommend giving it a full read.

B-b-but the Xbox port!!!

 

[Thick Thighs Save Lives]

Not sure if anyone uses the EGS client for ZZZ or other hoyo games, but apparently Epic have temporarily increased the cashback throughout the entire store to 20% which will last until August 31st.

Also, we are boosting Epic Rewards from 5% to 20% for all Epic Games Store purchases using Epic's payment system through August 31. This includes games from other companies that are distributed through the Epic Games Store.

https://store.epicgames.com/en-US/news/better-deals-in-fortnite-and-more-players-get-20-back-in-epic-rewards-starting-today

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

That's nice, but I'm not downloading the game again; too bad EGS doesn't have streaming.

 

[Thick Thighs Save Lives]

I see it as a good thing. Why? The less successful mobile versions will be, the less mobile-like feeling the game will have or potentially the game won't even be available on mobile at all. The fact that ZZZ is more popular on consoles and PC clearly indicates that it should've been PC and console game only (not to mention that it plays and looks the best on PC and Consoles) + you can port the game to 3 platforms so that's 4 platforms in total incl. Switch and a shit ton of potential whales and dolphins.

I'll say this, based on my own experience, ZZZ is only good on mobile for two specific things if you temporarily can't play the game on PC or consoles - dailies and simple mats farming in HIA.

Mobile gaming is still king in CN, so they can't really ignore such a huge market, especially when their games are usually quite big investments (I'm counting here their big marketing budgets as well). I know the PC market has grown massively over the past 10+ years (one third of steam's active user base has simplified chinese as their steam language), but it would still be risky to make some of these big gacha games PC and console only, when the mobile gaming market share is like 70% there, lol.

I'm also thinking that their next Honkai game (the Pokemon inspired one) will do a lot better on mobile than on PC or console (just like HSR does better on mobile than on PC and PS5), so I wouldn't necessarily read too much into those Sensor Tower insights.

That said, the same article did mention they're working on an shooter game that's more ambitious than Genshin, with a lot of Western talent. Although apparently that project has already been rebooted twice, so we'll just have to wait and see how that one turns out and on which platforms it releases.

The company is now building games with more touchpoints for non-otaku. It's taking a leap of faith, according to one current employee who requested anonymity. On its website, for example, job postings reference a shooter game.

Evidence of strain with this focus shift has already emerged. The company's ambitious open-world game, for which it recruited talent from top Western studios, has been rebooted more than twice, according to two employees. Current and former employees said the game, initially codenamed Project Shanghai and inspired by Grand Theft Auto, is more ambitious than Genshin Impact. Cai also led that development. US-based staff have been laid off due to challenges with coordinating projects across time zones, according to current and former employees.

 

[Pejo]

Gonna have to try a few of those out because of what I've played, none of them compare to the fast-paced, satisfying and crunchy feel of the combat in ZZZ, HI3rd included.

ZZZ feels to me more like a good fighting game than a standard hack 'n slash.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying ZZZ isn't high quality or good. I play the game daily, and I'm here. ZZZ has much more budget behind it than the rest of the ones I mentioned, even HoYo's own HI3, so of course it's the best from a production value angle (animations, presentation, etc). You're comparing games that make $100k-$400k monthly vs. a giant like ZZZ that makes $20+ Million in a month.

Still, people only have so much time, so they're going to pick their niche and play that game, along with sunk cost fallacy for games that released earlier. That's why I think ZZZ hasn't been as standout like they had hoped. But conversely, that's why I think it's silly that HoYo expected even higher revenue from this game when it's in a saturated market, with a new IP not linked to any of their other successful IP. I think the game's doing great at that revenue for its niche. Seems to me like a Square-Enix issue of not having realistic expectations. Also, the article mentions that they believe that their IPs are cannibalizing themselves, which is probably true from a revenue angle at least. But their old explanation about this (back when Star Rail released) was that if they weren't making new games and cannibalizing their own games, somebody else would be doing it instead. When you add up the revenue from all their games in a month, nobody beats HoYo for money.

As far as my opinion, I think Wuthering Waves is the best gacha combat game we currently have, but that's not a apples to apples comparison.

 

[Felessan]

I already thought that it would not be too successful. If you look at the YouTube and Twitch numbers. And it will probably never appeal to the masses, it is far too fast and hard to read what is happening for that.
I also believe that Wuwa has taken a few players away.

It is successfull, just not as much as Genshin/HSR. By chinese estimations it did ~800 mil USD in half an year. The game itself target more hardcore crowd, it close to HI3, and less cater to female, so it's understandable number will be lower.
Also it's true that it become harder for Mihoyo in general as competition is rising and players demand more clear identity. They enjoyed peacefull several years when they were for most part the only AAA gacha game with such high production values. Now competitors catching up, making it harder to put a new game with such high numbers. In 2023 only HSR as a new game made more than 150 mil $ (1 bil yuan), in 2024 there were 4 of them, ZZZ included. And 2 of them were otome games.

Wuwa much smaller, it's like 1/3 of ZZZ revenue. Probably the hardest hit for Mihoyo was not it but Love and Deep space - it broke their formula of a game for "14yo girls and 22yo old guys" (Genshin/HSR) heavily pulling out female part of player base.
This year will be even harder as a lot of potential heavy hitters nearing release.

I see it as a good thing. Why? The less successful mobile versions will be, the less mobile-like feeling the game will have or potentially the game won't even be available on mobile at all. The fact that ZZZ is more popular on consoles and PC clearly indicates that it should've been PC and console game only (not to mention that it plays and looks the best on PC and Consoles) + you can port the game to 3 platforms so that's 4 platforms in total incl. Switch and a shit ton of potential whales and dolphins.
I'll say this, based on my own experience, ZZZ is only good on mobile for two specific things if you temporarily can't play the game on PC or consoles - dailies and simple mats farming in HIA.

Their primary markets (China, JP, rest of Asia) are heavily focused on mobile, so there is no way they move out of it.
And don't mix donation platform with play platform - a lot of their playerbase probably play on different devices simultaneously but donate on PC as you often can get better deals there.

 

[Agent_4Seven]

Mobile gaming is still king in CN, so they can't really ignore such a huge market, especially when their games are usually quite big investments (I'm counting here their big marketing budgets as well). I know the PC market has grown massively over the past 10+ years (one third of steam's active user base has simplified chinese as their steam language), but it would still be risky to make some of these big gacha games PC and console only, when the mobile gaming market share is like 70% there, lol.

Their primary markets (China, JP, rest of Asia) are heavily focused on mobile, so there is no way they move out of it.

Gotcha. Still, I at least hope that they'll realize where their core player base is for certain games and make full use of hardware without mobile platform limitations. Like, ZZZ still full of pop-in and very low to high model swapping on PC and consoles which doesn't make sense and they didn't make changes to these versions to make it none issue

I'm also thinking that their next Honkai game (the Pokemon inspired one) will do a lot better on mobile than on PC or console (just like HSR does better on mobile than on PC and PS5), so I wouldn't necessarily read too much into those Sensor Tower insights.

It sure makes more sense for a game like this to be more popular on mobile or handhelds just like Pokemon.

That said, the same article did mention they're working on an shooter game that's more ambitious than Genshin, with a lot of Western talent. Although apparently that project has already been rebooted twice, so we'll just have to wait and see how that one turns out and on which platforms it releases.

Yeah, thats interesting. If they'll stick to the shooter part and depending on what kind of game it'll end up being (hopefully not multiplayer / co-op only game - but it won't surprise me at all if they're aiming at making Overwatch / Marvel Rivals type of game with gacha elements), I think it'll do just fine on mobile just like Fortnite, but of course PC will be the best way to play if you prefer m+kb control scheme and precise aiming. We'll see.

And don't mix donation platform with play platform - a lot of their playerbase probably play on different devices simultaneously but donate on PC as you often can get better deals there.

How can you get better deals on PC if you're buying through exact same in game store?



In other news. Hopefully it's just a placeholder for now, not a fan of this sonar-like map.

 

[Felessan]

Gotcha. Still, I at least hope that they'll realize where their core player base is for certain games and make full use of hardware without mobile platform limitations. Like, ZZZ still full of pop-in and very low to high model swapping on PC and consoles which doesn't make sense and they didn't make changes to these versions to make it none issue

Who do you mean by core? We don't certainly know who the core is and their behaviour.
Core playerbase revenue-wise is China and Japan, they are 80% of Mihoyo games revenue, and at least Japan is well known for tendency to play on the go. China probably too as study/work culture there not much different.
Playerbase it's China, Japan, rest of Asia and some developing world where it's best value for money gaming (it's free and have rather high quality). Those developing world countries are either mobile or entry-level PC that doesn't go very far from mobile.
"Neogaf community" in no way a core for these games.

 

[Agent_4Seven]

Who do you mean by core? We don't certainly know who the core is and their behaviour.

ZZZ and other similar and difficult to play action games are at their best only when being played on PC and consoles, so that's what I mean by core playerbase in this particular case, not mobile people who can't play the game the way it's meant to be played. But I guess it doesn't matter if they can just P2W and steamroll through everything, in which case you can call these people your core playerbase from a spending perspective and I'm not counting these people as a core playerbase cuz they're just whales and dolphins.

 

[Felessan]

ZZZ and other similar and difficult to play action games are at their best only when being played on PC and consoles, so that's what I mean by core playerbase in this particular case, not mobile people who can't play the game the way it's meant to be played. But I guess it doesn't matter if they can just P2W and steamroll through everything, in which case you can call these people your core playerbase from a spending perspective and I'm not counting these people as a core playerbase cuz they're just whales and dolphins.

It's hard to play on mobile because you are not used to it. I hear similar statements all the time from old PC gamers who just can't get into gamepad that FPS are only for kb+m. I am not really used to mobile controls, but I can beat even bosses in Genshin (haven't bothered to play ZZZ on mobile yet)
Just a reference - HI3 is kind of hell to play on PC and it has even more technical gameplay than ZZZ. Not to mention people play FPS/TPS on mobile just fine. Younger crowd who spend much more playing games with similar control have much better precision and "natural flow", I watch them from time to time and they play it as if they have gamepad, much more fluent than anything I can do.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

There's no way honkai is worse to play on pc, I couldn't imagine going through elysian realm or red lotus/agony 3 abyss on fucking touch screen controls and terrible fps.

 

[Pejo]

There's no way honkai is worse to play on pc, I couldn't imagine going through elysian realm or red lotus/agony 3 abyss on fucking touch screen controls and terrible fps.

Agreed. I could do dailies, and sometimes events were advantageous on touchscreen, but any of the serious gameplay modes, PC (with a controller) was miles better IMO.

 

[Pejo]

So anniversary events are coming out in leaks, supposedly we're getting 20 pulls via login events, 1600 polys via some other event, an S rank selector that has all the standard banner characters + Haramusa, and an W-Engine selector with the same characters' engines.

Also a title and avatar. Maybe a free skin, undetermined if it will be pay or not.

Typical shitty HoYo anniversary, but they've got everybody trained to accept it and thank them for basically nothing, so that's what we get.

 

[Felessan]

Typical shitty HoYo anniversary, but they've got everybody trained to accept it and thank them for basically nothing, so that's what we get.

Not too big, not too low
I actually despise excessive rewards on anniversaries - they speed up mudflation as players gets too many resources so power creep becomes faster to compensate

 

[Pejo]

Not too big, not too low
I actually despise excessive rewards on anniversaries - they speed up mudflation as players gets too many resources so power creep becomes faster to compensate

 

[Agent_4Seven]

So anniversary events are coming out in leaks, supposedly we're getting 20 pulls via login events, 1600 polys via some other event, an S rank selector that has all the standard banner characters + Haramusa, and an W-Engine selector with the same characters' engines.

Let me guess, it's 10 for characters and 10 for fuckin' bangboos in login events?

I could maybe be fine with standard banner shit if they'd also upgraded at least S11, Lycaon, Grace and Rina's combat kits and released them right away (something tells me that they'll be releasing upgraded versions as banners just to fuck us over, makes us pull and spend instead), but as it stands right now it's an absolute POS proposition. At least I can take a free and one more Crit Rate W-Engine for DPS characters, but it hardly makes everything else look better and enough for a 1 year anniversary.

Like, I have 100% for Yixuan already, but they could've at least gave everyone 100% for her during the first 100 pulls after launch, that way maybe some of us could've got Viv and say FY to 50/50 later.

Also a title and avatar.

They can go fuck themselves with this useless POS.

I won't be the one to thank them for anything, you can't even call all this a bare minimum, it's just pure and unapologetic shit. Now, with all that said, are we expecting for CN to riot just like they did for WuWa or...?

 

[Pejo]

Let me guess, it's 10 for characters and 10 for fuckin' bangboos in login events?

I think there are supposed to be 10 bangboo tokens too, but that's barely worth even mentioning. The 20 pulls mentioned are all the limited banner pulls

I could maybe be fine with standard banner shit if they'd also upgraded at least S11, Lycaon, Grace and Rina's combat kits and released them right away (something tells me that they'll be releasing upgraded versions as banners just to fuck us over, makes us pull and spend instead), but as it stands right now it's an absolute POS proposition. At least I can take a free and one more Crit Rate W-Engine for DPS characters, but it hardly makes everything else look better and enough for a 1 year anniversary.

Yea if they buff some of these characters at the same time, that could be nice actually. I am bummed because I was hoping Ellen would be part of the selector, but of course she's not. At least we know for sure that she's getting buffs.

They can go fuck themselves with this useless POS.

I won't be the one to thank them for anything, you can't even call all this a bare minimum, it's just pure and unapologetic shit. Now, with all that said, are we expecting for CN to riot just like they did for WuWa or...?

Agreed. And nah, we won't get any butthurt over this because HoYo fans at large are already built to take this lying down. Also a standard selector seems to be the turning point on whether there will be a riot or not, and they've already announced that we're getting it, so that'll probably be the end of the Anni talk.

 

[Agent_4Seven]

I think there are supposed to be 10 bangboo tokens too, but that's barely worth even mentioning. The 20 pulls mentioned are all the limited banner pulls

Good, so that's 30 free pulls in total + 300 after live streams and 600 after maintenance. Don't give a shit about bangboo pulls, they're useless crap to me and I'm not even buying them in stores when I have tons of currency, so that should tell miHoYo just how much I don't care.

Yea if they buff some of these characters at the same time, that could be nice actually. I am bummed because I was hoping Ellen would be part of the selector, but of course she's not. At least we know for sure that she's getting buffs.

You know what, I think Arknights: Endfield will fuck with many gacha games which have these pos standard banners cuz as you probably know, all characters in original game were immediately added to the standard banner after their first run, so what people ended up with eventually is with most if not all characters on their account, so if Arknights: Endfield will be doing the same thing while also being an incredibly high quality Xenoblade like ARPG in terms of gameplay (and it sure looks like it even from what I've seen of it in CBT phase), not to mention having such a great quality character models and animations...

I just can't wait for this game to be released, even though I'm not a fan of base building thing.

Agreed. And nah, we won't get any butthurt over this because HoYo fans at large are already built to take this lying down. Also a standard selector seems to be the turning point on whether there will be a riot or not, and they've already announced that we're getting it, so that'll probably be the end of the Anni talk.

One more and absolute shitty part about all this is that fuckin' Harumasa (!!!) is there while not being on the standard banner and not everyone one else from 1.x! WTF!!? Even Kuro have their shitty (in terms of how gacha works) rerun banners with 99% of characters that were released even after 2.0. Ugh, greedy motherfuckers

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

30 pulls isn't so bad, I think the lamest thing is the w-engine selector, aside from Harumasa's those engines can just be bought in the shop for "free", should've gone up to at least the outer ring characters.

 

[Thick Thighs Save Lives]

I guess those 30 pulls will go toward Yixuan. Maybe I'll have enough to also get her signature weapon if it's really good. If not, I'll probably go for Ju FuFu since her gameplay looks fun with those wolverine like animations (she powercrept Nekomata real hard here, lol).

 

[Agent_4Seven]

Well you guys, some of you tought that hard locking W-Engines to specific characters was bad, then how about this - Yixuan W-Engine will be sort of a complete POS. Why? Cuz all great stats are now hard locked behind dupes and they encouridging you to spend on dupes (WITH 75/25 DROP CHANCE!!!) to get the best buffs and Crit Rate

W-Engine: Qingming Cage House

Base ATK: 743
HP: 30%

CRIT Rate increased by 20%; When the wearer releases [EX Special Attack], the character gains the [Amplification] effect, stacking up to 2 layers and lasting 12 > 15 seconds. The wearer starts battle with 2 layers. When triggered repeatedly, the duration is refreshed. Each layer of [Amplification] increases Ether DMG dealt by the wearer by 8% and increases Ether Sheer DMG dealt by Ultimate or Ex Special by 10%.

HP + 30%? Okhuyet blyat
FY miHoYo, I'm not pulling for this POS.

 

[Pejo]

Well you guys, some of you tought that hard locking W-Engines to specific characters was bad, then how about this - Yixuan W-Engine will be sort of a complete POS. Why? Cuz all great stats are now hard locked behind dupes and they encouridging you to spend on dupes (WITH 75/25 DROP CHANCE!!!) to get the best buffs and Crit Rate


HP + 30%? Okhuyet blyat
FY miHoYo, I'm not pulling for this POS.

Does her kit scale off of HP somewhere? There's no way they'd release a 'void hunter' with an unrelated HP main stat on their engine...

 

[Agent_4Seven]

Does her kit scale off of HP somewhere? There's no way they'd release a 'void hunter' with an unrelated HP main stat on their engine...

She does indeed have HP scailing based on her character screen, just like DPSs have Crit Rate / DMG. I can sort of see how it can work, like, for example, how Lupa will work or how Danjin works in WuWa - they consume HP to deal more DMG and that's how their kit works so you need to have a real good healer to heal them (with Astra we won't have that problem), but so far, nothing in her kit indicates that she'll work that way.







But even if there's some sort of DMG scaling based on HP, you can easily get it via Disc sets and 3 times as much even, so why +30% on her Signature's second main stat? They really not explaining well if at all all these stat buffs on the main character screen. Like, it's really self-explanatory when it comes to ATK, DEF, Crit Rate and other stuff, but HP is such a basic af stat that unless you go for how Danjin and Lupa work in WuWa (or find a way to make it work somehow different), I just can't see how it make sense for it to be a second main stat on a premium W-Engine.

 

[Cao Cao]

Took me 171 pulls to get Jane Doe.
No I am NEVER pulling your scam signature W-ENGINES.
Every fuking character in 2.0 onwards I have so far seen gives me nothing, don't like those new designs at all. Yi Xuan looks like whatever.
Well at least I can save now Poly the next 10 months.

 

[Felessan]

You know what, I think Arknights: Endfield will fuck with many gacha games which have these pos standard banners cuz as you probably know, all characters in original game were immediately added to the standard banner after their first run, so what people ended up with eventually is with most if not all characters on their account, so if Arknights: Endfield will be doing the same thing while also being an incredibly high quality Xenoblade like ARPG in terms of gameplay (and it sure looks like it even from what I've seen of it in CBT phase), not to mention having such a great quality character models and animations...

Not limited though. And roster has sooo much characters (most of them are average) so you have to have some luck to pull a good char
It's typical for oldschool gacha (granblue, arknight, blue archive etc) - you got a lot of characters, yes, with good rates like 2-3-6% of SSR, but they are all fillers and to get core roster you are barred by very low probability of particular core chars and high requirement to spark (guaranteed choice) of 200-300 rolls.
Basically you save for half an year till anniversary (half-anniv, new year etc - there are usually 2-3 events per year) try to save as much rolls as possible and dump them on anniversary in hope that you'll save enough/be lucky enough to roll limited and some useful "standard banner" in process

HP + 30%? Okhuyet blyat
FY miHoYo, I'm not pulling for this POS.

She is HuTao of ZZZ and scales of HP, so as HuTao weapon is HP, so is Yixuan W-engine.
Her Sheer damage (the most damage she do) scales of HP stat
.

 

[Agent_4Seven]

Not limited though. And roster has sooo much characters (most of them are average) so you have to have some luck to pull a good char
It's typical for oldschool gacha (granblue, arknight, blue archive etc) - you got a lot of characters, yes, with good rates like 2-3-6% of SSR, but they are all fillers and to get core roster you are barred by very low probability of particular core chars and high requirement to spark (guaranteed choice) of 200-300 rolls.

From what I've seen in one of the reviews, that's including limited characters and there's over 300+ in total + two types of limited characters - 5 and 6 stars. They didn't go into much detail cuz there's a shit ton of characters to cover, but some of them have unique stuff to their combat kit not even limited characters have, like Lumi in WuWa for example, so there's a lot more room for experimentation. It'll be interestig to see what they'll do for Endfield, but if they'll decide to stick to the roots, I still think that it'll be at least 2 times less characters cuz they're not sprites and numbers anymore and full 3D models with complex animations, VA etc.

And for sure, there's also a question of quantity over quality, but at least in this case, completely F2P people have a lot more options than in miHoYo and Kuro games where the overwhelming majority of new characters are limited.

Basically you save for half an year till anniversary (half-anniv, new year etc - there are usually 2-3 events per year) try to save as much rolls as possible and dump them on anniversary in hope that you'll save enough/be lucky enough to roll limited and some useful "standard banner" in process.

That's good strategy if you want to take a break and only gather pulls, plus most events and story stuff are permanent so it's not like you're missing anything there.

She is HuTao of ZZZ and scales of HP, so as HuTao weapon is HP, so is Yixuan W-engine.

Her Sheer damage (the most damage she do) scales of HP stat
.

Well, as I've said, if she prefers HP so much over anything else, then we could just easily bump her HP on 4, 5, 6 discs to get 90%(!) and forget about CR / CD as a main stats then, if her DMG scales from HP. Why do we need her W-Engine for outside of small buff to her kit? Like, we can slap on her S11's W-Engine to get CR and get CR and CD substats on discs if it even matters that much.

Uh, and here I thought that made they'll add some risk-reward mechanics to her combat hit and make her more interesting to play, but her DMG just flat out scales from HP and that's it. Cowards.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

No I am NEVER pulling your scam signature W-ENGINES.

lucky for you then jane doe works fine without her signature ;P

 

[Felessan]

From what I've seen in one of the reviews, that's including limited characters and there's over 300+ in total + two types of limited characters - 5 and 6 stars. They didn't go into much detail cuz there's a shit ton of characters to cover, but some of them have unique stuff to their combat kit not even limited characters have, like Lumi in WuWa for example, so there's a lot more room for experimentation. It'll be interestig to see what they'll do for Endfield, but if they'll decide to stick to the roots, I still think that it'll be at least 2 times less characters cuz they're not sprites and numbers anymore and full 3D models with complex animations, VA etc.

So you didn't play itself. I haven't played it for like year or two, but the roster of mine still quite good at 55 6* chars, though it took me 1.5 years to get Surtr.
Limited chars are limited to Limited banner that only run during events. You can't get 4 dragon girls or "special edition" version of some chars (Lapland, Texas etc) just random pulling on standard banner. https://arknights.wiki.gg/wiki/Headhunting/Banners#Limited
The power structure is vastly different to modern games due to sheer number of chars, but limited often a little bit more powerful or play a specific pivotal role, basically it's toned down A/S difference in modern games, where A characters might perform well or even outperform S characters, but on average S holds more weight than A.

And for sure, there's also a question of quantity over quality, but at least in this case, completely F2P people have a lot more options than in miHoYo and Kuro games where the overwhelming majority of new characters are limited.

It's apple to oranges
As you might expect having a bigger roster do lead that game requires you to have large and diverse roster. Just image that in ZZZ you are required to have a full team of every element because off-element damage/daze reduced like 5 times (it's what it like in GBF or BA). No freebies - every game adjusts their gameplay and progression to balance what player have and what he needs to leave room for monetization.

That's good strategy if you want to take a break and only gather pulls, plus most events and story stuff are permanent so it's not like you're missing anything there.

Not really.
Same as monetization every game has ways to ensure that you stay in game. Char buildup is notch harder than in Genshin/ZZZ so instead of casually taking break you are forced to do stuff every day or your roster will be underdeveloped and weak. And remember - it's big and you need quite a few chars from it, so it's a lot of work.

Well, as I've said, if she prefers HP so much over anything else, then we could just easily bump her HP on 4, 5, 6 discs to get 90%(!) and forget about CR / CD as a main stats then, if her DMG scales from HP. Why do we need her W-Engine for outside of small buff to her kit? Like, we can slap on her S11's W-Engine to get CR and get CR and CD substats on discs if it even matters that much.

You want her W engine to be universal, and Mihoyo usually tailor W engine for given char. Like HuTao weapon is HP and not CR/CD.
Anyway - we probably will get more HP (and even DEF) chars in the future, so they might be able utilize it.

 

[Agent_4Seven]

So you didn't play itself. I haven't played it for like year or two, but the roster of mine still quite good at 55 6* chars, though it took me 1.5 years to get Surtr.
Limited chars are limited to Limited banner that only run during events. You can't get 4 dragon girls or "special edition" version of some chars (Lapland, Texas etc) just random pulling on standard banner. https://arknights.wiki.gg/wiki/Headhunting/Banners#Limited

The power structure is vastly different to modern games due to sheer number of chars, but limited often a little bit more powerful or play a specific pivotal role, basically it's toned down A/S difference in modern games, where A characters might perform well or even outperform S characters, but on average S holds more weight than A.

Nah, I haven't played it myself, it's just not for me cuz I don't like these types of games with tower defence gameplay. So I watched a few in depth reviews to at least understand and see what kind of a game it is and what to expect from events, story and such in Endfield. As for characters and banners, don't you think that S being just a bit better than A is better for people's wallets? Like, there's not such thing in WuWa and ZZZ outside of just a 1-2 characters and F2P suffers a lot cuz of this, different games of course, but still, there's no 30/70 ballance at least and A rank characters are not being added almost at all and if there's a few, some people already have Lighter for example and could't give a shit about Pulchra who only works with Aftershock team and only at C6 with everyone else while being worse.

Not really. Same as monetization every game has ways to ensure that you stay in game. Char buildup is notch harder than in Genshin/ZZZ so instead of casually taking break you are forced to do stuff every day or your roster will be underdeveloped and weak. And remember - it's big and you need quite a few chars from it, so it's a lot of work.

Well, if you put it like that, work is not what games should be and it it feels like work, you probably should stop playing.

You want her W engine to be universal, and Mihoyo usually tailor W engine for given char. Like HuTao weapon is HP and not CR/CD.
Anyway - we probably will get more HP (and even DEF) chars in the future, so they might be able utilize it.

What I expected seeing HP as a secondary main stat and after you mentioned what it'll be doing, that maybe there'll be some risk-reward mechanics like in WuWa when it comes to HP and characters I mentioned, so that'll be cool, you know, to make her combat a bit deeper and complex, but instead it's just bland DMG scaling from HP.

It's apple to oranges
As you might expect having a bigger roster do lead that game requires you to have large and diverse roster. Just image that in ZZZ you are required to have a full team of every element because off-element damage/daze reduced like 5 times (it's what it like in GBF or BA). No freebies - every game adjusts their gameplay and progression to balance what player have and what he needs to leave room for monetization.

I don't have to imagine anything in ZZZ cuz it already works like this in end game. Just look at the latest SD and you see what I mean. They clearly want you to have 2 Ice + Ether teams. They're doing it everytime for each update, focus end game on new characters and want you to have them.

 

[Felessan]

As for characters and banners, don't you think that S being just a bit better than A is better for people's wallets? Like, there's not such thing in WuWa and ZZZ outside of just a 1-2 characters and F2P suffers a lot cuz of this

You'll suffer a lot more in those games, especially as f2p. I played gacha games since the start of it (Pazudora in 2012) and played quite a few of them, touched most big ones, and it was never so player and player wallets friendly.
Genshin is a 3rd stage of evolution of gacha and this stage gives much more reliable and stable way of acquiring chars. You have quite high control of what you get compared to what you want and luck only affect speed of acquisition. You might not have the full roster, but you'll have a roster that you chose to build.
In 2nd stage games you'll have random scraps here and there (and f2p will have a lot of holes in roster) from which you'll be challenged to build some resemblance of good teams.

Just imagine that gacha in ZZZ doesn't have 50/50 mechanics, the pity still in place but S always rolled across all S chars and banner char have only rateup to 5-10%. And you get a hard choice to roll a particular char only once an year - it's how gacha worked in 2nd phase and it was a pain to get particular char.

Well, if you put it like that, work is not what games should be and it it feels like work, you probably should stop playing.

Those games are hardcore and hardcore means lot of work.
You may like it or you may not, your choice. As a very long time MMO player I am fine with it.

For me it's actually opposite, casual gameplay with lots of freebies and no hardships are not worth it. There is no achievement in these games, they are just time killers and I don't play those. I don't play for fun, I play2win (it's specific gamers strata that prioritize results over having fun in process)

Gacha transition has a lot in common to MMO transition and you can't compare casual playstyle of WoW/FF14 with AO, FF11, Lineage2 etc where grind, often very serious, was a central part of gameplay.

What I expected seeing HP as a secondary main stat and after you mentioned what it'll be doing, that maybe there'll be some risk-reward mechanics like in WuWa when it comes to HP and characters I mentioned, so that'll be cool, you know, to make her combat a bit deeper and complex, but instead it's just bland DMG scaling from HP.

I though that it's skills and mechanics that made chars combat deep and complex and not what stat exactly affects it's damage. I liked HuTao gameplay, though it alleviate huge HP pool.

I don't have to imagine anything in ZZZ cuz it already works like this in end game. Just look at the latest SD and you see what I mean. They clearly want you to have 2 Ice + Ether teams. They're doing it everytime for each update, focus end game on new characters and want you to have them.

It makes things easier but it's not mandatory. It'll be slightly harder but there is usually work around it. It's quite different from when off element simply hit a wall and it's completely unplayable and no amount of skill will solve it.

And it's only in end game, imagine not being able to farm particular disc set because you have no roster for it.

 

[Agent_4Seven]

I though that it's skills and mechanics that made chars combat deep and complex and not what stat exactly affects it's damage. I liked HuTao gameplay, though it alleviate huge HP pool.

You miss understanding. It's a risk-reward mechanic and for it to work well you need to be pretty good at such a character along with his/her kit and have a good team composition to work around that.

Skill and mechanics? There's no skill and deep mechanics in ZZZ, it doesn't matter in this game, especially when there's characters like Miyabi and everyone can just P2W. So I'm not playing ZZZ for skill and mechanics, cuz this game is absolutely not about that, otherwise we could've looked at a game like Sekiro or Ninja Gaiden where skill does matter, as well as the way you use everything at your disposal.

They can't make ZZZ for hardcore character action fans cuz a lot of people will drop the game instantly. And no, towers in ZZZ are a bunch of unrewarding BS with tons of HP and DMG inflation, DPS checks, timer etc., pretty much just like in WuWa. And what exactly are you gaining from beating up the same mobs and bosses over and over again while dealing with all this BS? At some point and sooner rather than later, it'll get old and just a giant waste of time.

That's why I mentioned risk-reward, cuz it could've spiced up regular gameplay in actually great end game modes the game has, I thought for ones we'll have a character in the game that works differently, but nope. Well anyway, everything is stored. There's no reason to pull Yixuan's W-Engine and thank fuck for that cuz it means I can get Ju Fufu

 

[Spyxos]

Skill and mechanics? There's no skill and deep mechanics in ZZZ, it doesn't matter in this game, especially when there's characters like Miyabi and everyone can just P2W. So I'm not playing ZZZ for skill and mechanics, cuz this game is absolutely not about that, otherwise we could've looked at a game like Sekiro or Ninja Gaiden where skill does matter, as well as the way you use everything at your disposal.

Of course there are in ZZZ. You can't even get far with Miyabi by simply button mashing anymore. And many bosses have interesting mechanics.

 

[Agent_4Seven]

Of course there are in ZZZ. You can't even get far with Miyabi by simply button mashing anymore. And many bosses have interesting mechanics.

Not sure if it's true with the P2W version of her. I have her C3 and W-Engine and she melts everything just fine even half a year later. Also, there's literally nothing challenging (I mean fair and cool challenge like in Sekiro and Ninja Giden) in the game where you really need to think. Like, sure, you need to dodge, quick assist, defence assist and all that but unless you go to BS towers and enable all modifiers in LV and HZ, it's just a walk in the park and LV and HZ is one and done thing, you don't even need to do that again. And you already know what's in there in those towers.

If the game was really all about skill and mechanics, again, a lot of people would've dropped it already. It's not a button masher, but nowhere near a game where skill and mechanics matter like they should and to make them matter, you need to make the game harder and have a fair challenge which they'll never do. Like, if Sekiro and Ninja Gaiden (not Sigma series) was like ZZZ, everyone could finish those games relatively easily and with moderate effort at best.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

The tower is fine, it brings about the skill part of the game and the reward is being able to do it, not having polychromes or whatever as an incentive doesn't make it "BS"; the ninja gaiden comparison is also silly since every encounter in that game is basically on-land UT > destroy every enemy while invincible > repeat

 

[Felessan]

That's why I mentioned risk-reward, cuz it could've spiced up regular gameplay in actually great end game modes the game has, I thought for ones we'll have a character in the game that works differently, but nope. Well anyway, everything is stored.

I really lost what you would like to see on W engine.
Stat wise it's really strong and it's also add to gameplay (resource management) and not just a stat stick

There's no reason to pull Yixuan's W-Engine and thank fuck for that cuz it means I can get Ju Fufu

It's, as usual, a buff for her performance, and as afaik no other engine provide HP, the difference will be on a major side, like 15-20% from alternatives
Of course I will pull for it

 

[Thick Thighs Save Lives]

Dayum, my man Agent_4Seven with that M3R1 Miyabi.

 

[SSfox]

I was told many times that boobs giggles physics are "unrealistic"

 

[Aenima]

The time has finally come.

Already had enough pulls saved for the next voidhunter, but when im having more fun looking and trying out mods than playing the game, then its time to focus on games im actually enjoying. At the end, it was Hoyotrash greed that killed the game for me, while i had fun in the 1st months, once i start being forced to skip chars that could be usefull for team building, they ruined the core gameplay for me. Im now at a stage where im missing too many chars cuz in my last 4 banners pulls I only got the chars after 140+ pulls.

Im now reduced to only 2 gacha games that i have no reason to quit cuz they allow F2P to easily get all chars not limiting team building options.

Will look forward to try out Azur Promilia and Ananta when they come out, im quite hyped for Ananta, really hope they manage to meet expectations.

 

[Agent_4Seven]

Aenima I get it, it's fuckin' terrible experience with such bad luck. Some people try to create new accounts in hope that maybe they'll be more blessed, but it's a different story. I'm skipping Viv and Hugo especially cuz I don't give a shit about him, but I'm in a good position of having every character they released so far so I won't lose anything. Anyway, good luck to ya and most importantly have fun playing! I'm going to be makin' Ananta and Endfield's OT and will be happy so see you there ma dude

Dayum, my man Agent_4Seven with that M3R1 Miyabi.

I tought that I posted it here when she launched and after I got a bunch of dupes of her... but maybe you missed my posts. Well anyway, she's a fuckin' beats
I'll try and go for the rest of her dupes during reruns.

I really lost what you would like to see on W engine.
Stat wise it's really strong and it's also add to gameplay (resource management) and not just a stat stick

Well, I've mentioned it. But let me explain in detail. If there's 30% HP buff to her premium W-Engine, then what I'd want to see is a Danjin or Lupa combat-like kit. Now, we don't have Lupa yet, but we do know that she'll work somewhat similar to Danjin - do you know how her kit works btw? Well, let's say you do, so, in case with Yixuan you can look at her HP in this case as a source for everything she does and excels at, meaning more deeper and I'd even say more niche combat kit, cuz to play her well in this case you need a lot of micromanagement, fiddle with how her combat mechanics work and instead of her HP being a boring scale for her DMG (which it is, unfortunately), it could've instead been the source of her combat kit, the way you play her, use her skills etc.

And here we coming back to what I've said multiple times already - they can't do that cuz it's too complex and too much micromanagement and people want more simplier stuff to play around with, which is why a lot of them saying that Ellen is shit cuz they don't get or refuce to understand how her combat kit works and what you need to do to make it work, but why the fuck they'll be doing that if they have MUCH more simple Miyabi kit? Now, I gotta say that they're trying to make combat a bit deeper here and there. Like, in case with Hugo, you need two stunners to make him work and then nuke the fuck out of stun window, so the way you play him is different but you need Lycaon and Lighter for that so it's not and ideal situation cuz I lot of people might not have Lighter even after pulling him in a few days and Lycaon is a random af drop you can't control.

Then there's Viv and the main shtick of hers is that she prefers to work with anomaly agents, anomaly buffers and can work differently and assume different roles depending on the team composition, but her combat kit is not that deep, it's like in one case you just build her stuff until it's maxed, then switch to another anomaly character like Yanagi for example and along with disorders that replaced Crits from Jane's core passive, also get basically poison DMG on top of that and then there nuke as well. So, she can work sort of like Burnice - you use her when she's all fired up, bench her until you need her again, except Burnice can't do shit when you bench her. You can pair her with Burnice instead and use Viv as a DPS and put Seth on the team to buff Anomaly for both of them, but to do that you must've invested into premium Anomaly agents in the past cuz otherwise you only have F2P team from her banner.

So then, if they'd made Yixuan more complex and deep in terms of combat kit mechanics, they'd made her work sort of similar to Danjin and maybe added some unique flavour (which they did based on her combat kit), but instead HP being more complex mechanic you need to understand, micromanage to get the best out of her kit, it's just being used as boring DMG scale and like, uh, it's fine, but could've been so much more and made me pull for her W-Engine, but instead and if she need a lot of HP to boost her DMG, I'll just fuckin' give her +60-90%, give her S11's W-Engine and that'll be it. I'm not saying that there won't be characters in the future to make her works somehow differently, but fuckin' hell, man, Jane being as powerfull as she is, only has Seth to help her out and all he does is busting her Anomaly and that's ZERO fuckin' combat depth, just like HP being boring flat DMG scale.

I hope now you understand better what I wanted to justify pulling her W-Engine, but ultimately it doesn't fuckin' matter what I want cuz a shit lot of people could not care less about mechanical complexity and don't want to use their brains and learn how to play complex characters, so here we are... I can't say that Hugo and Viv's kits are deep, it's just one have very specific way of playing (which is still a change from other agents) and the second one have 2 to 3 uses in anomaly teams, can boost damage or being the main sourse of one, but it's not like there's something in their combat kits that is complex, have a stip learning curve and you really need to invest a lot of time to play them effectively while risking to fuck everything up if you don't get how combat kit works and what you need to to do make it work like in case with Ellen even without her C1 dupe even. Ellen is nowhere near as good as Miyabi in terms of DPS and shit she does by melting everyone (you just can't beat such a fuckin' monster), but Ellen has more complex combat kit and that's what I expected from Yixuan and her HP, which is of course my problem and my problem only

It's, as usual, a buff for her performance, and as afaik no other engine provide HP, the difference will be on a major side, like 15-20% from alternatives
Of course I will pull for it

Why do you even need W-Engine with HP as the secondary stat if you can buff her HP 4 times via discs? Well, okay, make it 3 times + 48 crit rate from S11 W-Engine and Disc 4 + however more you can get via substats and maybe from her passive skills. The enormous HP buff alone will make insane DPS out of her even if you'll be missing 30% HP from her W-Engine. You don't like Ju Fufu that much ma man to skip her and potentially lose 75/25?

 

[Icymanipulator]

The time has finally come.

Already had enough pulls saved for the next voidhunter, but when im having more fun looking and trying out mods than playing the game, then its time to focus on games im actually enjoying. At the end, it was Hoyotrash greed that killed the game for me, while i had fun in the 1st months, once i start being forced to skip chars that could be usefull for team building, they ruined the core gameplay for me. Im now at a stage where im missing too many chars cuz in my last 4 banners pulls I only got the chars after 140+ pulls.

Im now reduced to only 2 gacha games that i have no reason to quit cuz they allow F2P to easily get all chars not limiting team building options.

Will look forward to try out Azur Promilia and Ananta when they come out, im quite hyped for Ananta, really hope they manage to meet expectations.

I pick up and drop games all the time. I thinks it's perfectly good and natural thing to do. The worst is getting stuck in the sunk cost fallacy, thinking because you've spent so much time on something you have to continue. You don't.
It's better to cut your losses and move on imo. Games are supposed to be fun first and foremost, so if the fun ends it's definitely time to leave. And then of course is the reality that there's only so many hours in the day, it's impossible to play everything. At some point you have to pick and choose what to play.
For me personally dropping Star Rail and WuWa freed up so much time that I've been able to focus on tons of other games and non gaming hobbies, it's been really nice.

 

[Felessan]

Well, I've mentioned it. But let me explain in detail. If there's 30% HP buff to her premium W-Engine, then what I'd want to see is a Danjin or Lupa combat-like kit. Now, we don't have Lupa yet, but we do know that she'll work somewhat similar to Danjin - do you know how her kit works btw? Well, let's say you do, so, in case with Yixuan you can look at her HP in this case as a source for everything she does and excels at, meaning more deeper and I'd even say more niche combat kit, cuz to play her well in this case you need a lot of micromanagement, fiddle with how her combat mechanics work and instead of her HP being a boring scale for her DMG (which it is, unfortunately), it could've instead been the source of her combat kit, the way you play her, use her skills etc.

Don't mention WuWa to me, I think that game is trash.

And here we coming back to what I've said multiple times already - they can't do that cuz it's too complex and too much micromanagement and people want more simplier stuff to play around with, which is why a lot of them saying that Ellen is shit cuz they don't get or refuce to understand how her combat kit works and what you need to do to make it work, but why the fuck they'll be doing that if they have MUCH more simple Miyabi kit? Now, I gotta say that they're trying to make combat a bit deeper here and there. Like, in case with Hugo, you need two stunners to make him work and then nuke the fuck out of stun window, so the way you play him is different but you need Lycaon and Lighter for that so it's not and ideal situation cuz I lot of people might not have Lighter even after pulling him in a few days and Lycaon is a random af drop you can't control.

We already have Evelyn and Harumasa those performance and closely linked to mastery of their rotations and YiXuan expected to be even more in this direction. Just because you opt to M3 Miyabi doesn't mean that there are absolutely no complexity in the game.

So then, if they'd made Yixuan more complex and deep in terms of combat kit mechanics, they'd made her work sort of similar to Danjin and maybe added some unique flavour (which they did based on her combat kit), but instead HP being more complex mechanic you need to understand, micromanage to get the best out of her kit, it's just being used as boring DMG scale and like, uh, it's fine, but could've been so much more and made me pull for her W-Engine, but instead and if she need a lot of HP to boost her DMG, I'll just fuckin' give her +60-90%, give her S11's W-Engine and that'll be it. I'm not saying that there won't be characters in the future to make her works somehow differently, but fuckin' hell, man, Jane being as powerfull as she is, only has Seth to help her out and all he does is busting her Anomaly and that's ZERO fuckin' combat depth, just like HP being boring flat DMG scale.

The problem with linking mechanics to HP, like it was done to HuTao, is that ZZZ does not have proper healers (Astra heals a very small amount once in forever as heal tied to ultimate), so self-harm mechanics are out of question - they can't be put into rotation in any meaningful way. And enmity (more damage at low hp) will be very unbalanced as in ZZZ it's way too often that characters don't receive damage at all. Mihoyo probably explored this and found that hp based mechanics simply do not work well in current ZZZ setup.

Why do you even need W-Engine with HP as the secondary stat if you can buff her HP 4 times via discs? Well, okay, make it 3 times + 48 crit rate from S11 W-Engine and Disc 4 + however more you can get via substats and maybe from her passive skills. The enormous HP buff alone will make insane DPS out of her even if you'll be missing 30% HP from her W-Engine. You don't like Ju Fufu that much ma man to skip her and potentially lose 75/25?

Because it's still +30% HP, +20% Crit and +16% ether damage (on stacks) and additional +16% ether sheer damage on ex and ulti (also on stacks) - that's quite a lot of buffs on w engine
S11 w engine (Brimstone) doesn't have crit and it's effect tied to attacker role so I am unsure whether it will work for YuXian or not. And your setup would have only 2 hp discs, disc5 should be ether damage as almost always.

As for skipping/losing - I don't care, I'm not f2p so I can buyout anything at any moment if see value in it.