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[PeteBull]

No, gta v release looks actually better than it's trailers, you just share a bullshit comparison video, here is a far better one,

Even their resent game rdr 2 looks better in many aspects than it's trailers

People's really need to stop debating rockstar, their are one of few developers who releases their games with better graphics than it's trailers

Didnt i mention rockstar downgrade isnt across the board like for example ubisoft trailiers downgrades, its more subtle, in some cases there is even upgrade, but ofc some details are downgraded, some by quite a lot, the vid u shoved just proves many things from some trailers werent downgraded, some defo were tho.
When u find disparities trailer vs release u look for difference, ofc if u sho in the vid that 90 or even 99% is similar/same then most ppl concur 0 downgrades, barely no1 looks at that few % that was downgraded, especially casual gamers .
Look at that 2011 gta5 trailer, there are definitive downgrades npc/pedestarians wise in ps360 version and it still runs like shit on those consoles even after the downgrades, we not saying whole trailer was bullshot but some pieces were changed/doctored.


Now look at gta5 on ps360 and those fps durning gameplay/shootouts/chases:

We understand that bit of downgrade was actually justified given what hardware gta5 launched on.

 

[coachmcguirk91]

Didnt i mention rockstar downgrade isnt across the board like for example ubisoft trailiers downgrades, its more subtle, in some cases there is even upgrade, but ofc some details are downgraded, some by quite a lot, the vid u shoved just proves many things from some trailers werent downgraded, some defo were tho.
When u find disparities trailer vs release u look for difference, ofc if u sho in the vid that 90 or even 99% is similar/same then most ppl concur 0 downgrades, barely no1 looks at that few % that was downgraded, especially casual gamers .
Look at that 2011 gta5 trailer, there are definitive downgrades npc/pedestarians wise in ps360 version and it still runs like shit on those consoles even after the downgrades, we not saying whole trailer was bullshot but some pieces were changed/doctored.


Now look at gta5 on ps360 and those fps durning gameplay/shootouts/chases:

We understand that bit of downgrade was actually justified given what hardware gta5 launched on.

The original GTA V trailer released 2 years before release. During the PS3 generation, 2 years is an eternity. Many AAA games during that gen were fully developed within that time frame. It's quite clear certain clips, like Mount Chiliad, are CGI placeholders. I don't think Rockstar purposely mislead with anything because it's difficult to 100% know what the final product will look like. Especially for a game that has so many variables working together

What gets me excited are the many improvements from GTA 6 trailer 1 to trailer 2. At this point, Rockstar should have a very clear picture of how the game will run. It would be very surprising if we see drastic downgrades. RDR2 was very faithful to how the game looked in the trailers to the final product. There are obv asshole devs like Ubisoft that consistently mislead consumers, but it is hard for developers to be pinpoint accurate so far out. Most of the time, it's just developers being overly ambitious of what they expect the final product to look like. No malice intended

 

[Msamy]

Didnt i mention rockstar downgrade isnt across the board like for example ubisoft trailiers downgrades, its more subtle, in some cases there is even upgrade, but ofc some details are downgraded, some by quite a lot, the vid u shoved just proves many things from some trailers werent downgraded, some defo were tho.
When u find disparities trailer vs release u look for difference, ofc if u sho in the vid that 90 or even 99% is similar/same then most ppl concur 0 downgrades, barely no1 looks at that few % that was downgraded, especially casual gamers .
Look at that 2011 gta5 trailer, there are definitive downgrades npc/pedestarians wise in ps360 version and it still runs like shit on those consoles even after the downgrades, we not saying whole trailer was bullshot but some pieces were changed/doctored.


Now look at gta5 on ps360 and those fps durning gameplay/shootouts/chases:

We understand that bit of downgrade was actually justified given what hardware gta5 launched on.

The amount of upgrades on gta v and rdr2 are far more than their downgrades from their trailers, some people's make whole bullshit videos of downgrades like the one you shared, also don't talk to me about ps3 frame rate, all the industry including sony first party struggled with ps3 at that time because of cell, it was impossible that the best looking open world ps3 game to come without a some issues in framerate, but the case for gta vi is more like rdr2 which have great performances on ps4 & ps4 pro alongside being best looking open world game last gen

 

[analog_future]

Damn, the more I play of The Talos Principle Reawakened the more I'm impressed with it. Both visually and just in general. It's definitely one of the best releases of 2025.

The visuals kind of sneak up on you the more you play. My first impression was "This looks good, but nothing eye melting", but the more I play the more I think this is one of the best looking games of 2025. It's just the complete package; lighting, environmental detail, texture quality, foliage density, skyboxes, volumetrics, LoD, you name it.

Like look at the insane amount of details on just some random walls I came across:

Super impressive. And the tone, story, themes, and puzzles themselves are just next-level. I can't believe this game was off my radar for so long. Can't wait to play the second game.



Some more of my shots:

 

[mrMUR_96]

Damn, the more I play of The Talos Principle Reawakened the more I'm impressed with it. Both visually and just in general. It's definitely one of the best releases of 2025.

The visuals kind of sneak up on you the more you play. My first impression was "This looks good, but nothing eye melting", but the more I play the more I think this is one of the best looking games of 2025. It's just the complete package; lighting, environmental detail, texture quality, foliage density, skyboxes, volumetrics, LoD, you name it.

Like look at the insane amount of details on just some random walls I came across:

Super impressive. And the tone, story, themes, and puzzles themselves are just next-level. I can't believe this game was off my radar for so long. Can't wait to play the second game.



Some more of my shots:

That is seriously impressive, how has no one been talking about these graphics? The geometry on that wall is insane, really nice lighting on the fog around that door too. Lmao compare that to Egypt in Indy which somehow won DF's graphics of the year.

 

[Bitstream]

yeah, ive been saying this. jason confirmed this way back in 2019 that rockstar is a one game studio every since rdr2 went into development. im sure there are some dudes out there drawing up plans for the story and tech, and the gta online team, but jason specifically said that all 7 studios with their 3,000+ devs worked on rdr2 full time for 5 years.

Anyway, did you guys notice that character models and other things have improved since the last trailer. people after the first trailer were saying that it will be downgraded but rockstar has somehow managed to upgrade several things.

Rockstar May Have ‘Upgraded’ Lucia And Jason’s Faces In ‘GTA 6’ Trailer

One idea players have put forth is a series that Jason and Lucia look different from the original GTA 6 trailer. Is that true.

www.forbes.com

Great call out. As is human nature, there was lots of doom and gloom around the game being downgraded before release, or that the footage we were seeing wasn't possible on consoles, etc.

But in typical rockstar fashion, they upped the ante considerably in trailer 2 while confirming that this is the base ps5.

And my my, look at those damn hair physics!

 

[SlimySnake]

There are downgrades and there are downgrades.

Watch Dogs? Massive Downgrade.
Witcher 3? Entire Rendering Pipeline changed.
Uncharted 4? 1080p 60 fps realtime? Get fucked ND.
TLOU2? Faked character models, animations, etc.
HFW? Pre-rendered trailer passed off as realtime.
Spiderman 2? Pre-rendered trailer passed off as realtime.

GTA6 has gotten an upgrade, and even if it gets downgraded, it will be minor changes here and there.

Rockstar will release bullshots. They will release carefully scripted and perfectly lit gameplay sequences as cinematics. They will hide aliasing as best as they can. but they are not disingenuous hacks like Insomniac, ND, and GG who literally script and create fake shit for trailers and gameplay.

Even Ubisoft and CD Project no longer bullshits. AC Shadows, Avatar, Cyberpunk all looked better than their reveals thanks mostly to ray tracing basically allowing them to do what Sony studios try to do in their fake pre-rendered trailers.

 

[analog_future]

There are downgrades and there are downgrades.

Watch Dogs? Massive Downgrade.
Witcher 3? Entire Rendering Pipeline changed.
Uncharted 4? 1080p 60 fps realtime? Get fucked ND.
TLOU2? Faked character models, animations, etc.
HFW? Pre-rendered trailer passed off as realtime.
Spiderman 2? Pre-rendered trailer passed off as realtime.

GTA6 has gotten an upgrade, and even if it gets downgraded, it will be minor changes here and there.

Rockstar will release bullshots. They will release carefully scripted and perfectly lit gameplay sequences as cinematics. They will hide aliasing as best as they can. but they are not disingenuous hacks like Insomniac, ND, and GG who literally script and create fake shit for trailers and gameplay.

Even Ubisoft and CD Project no longer bullshits. AC Shadows, Avatar, Cyberpunk all looked better than their reveals thanks mostly to ray tracing basically allowing them to do what Sony studios try to do in their fake pre-rendered trailers.

Damn, those aren't small upgrades in the shots you shared either. Massive leap over the 2023 trailer.

 

[SlimySnake]

This is clearly very WIP, the volumetrics in the room look almost bugged, the noise in the reflection is super high, final product will definitely be way more polished and look better. I just hope it isn't rushed out the door like SM2 as that was so uneven looking.

Yep. Its missing an entire lighting pass or two. It will also have realtime GI so lighting should look great. They are also aiming for a lot of the cool stuff we saw in the Marvel 1943 demo by Amy Henning. Film quality facial animations, muscle and cloth sim, etc. Literally taken straight from Amy's presentation.

Dynamic weather, and destruction, were also key pillars of AC shadows during development, and it paid off in the end even if it didnt show up well in youtube videos. Motion matching is also huge. They will be the first sony studio to use it after ND.

I know im harsh on sony studios, but none of these games will look bad. They will great, with their own highlights thanks to their cinematic nature, just not industry leading which is disappointing but the games will look just fine. Wolverine especially since its using realtime GI which should fix some of the lighting issues we saw in TLOU2, GOW ragnorak and HFW.

There's some interesting stuff in there about their RT implementation including how it performs on consoles, etc.

This is very interesting stuff. PS5 Pro's ray tracing performance is roughly on par with the 3080, but the rest of the GPU is severely lacking which allows the 4080 to increase its advantage from 50% to 200%. Cerny definitely shouldve gone with a 20 tflops GPU with higher clocks.

 

[Msamy]

Pk

There are downgrades and there are downgrades.

Watch Dogs? Massive Downgrade.
Witcher 3? Entire Rendering Pipeline changed.
Uncharted 4? 1080p 60 fps realtime? Get fucked ND.
TLOU2? Faked character models, animations, etc.
HFW? Pre-rendered trailer passed off as realtime.
Spiderman 2? Pre-rendered trailer passed off as realtime.

GTA6 has gotten an upgrade, and even if it gets downgraded, it will be minor changes here and there.

Rockstar will release bullshots. They will release carefully scripted and perfectly lit gameplay sequences as cinematics. They will hide aliasing as best as they can. but they are not disingenuous hacks like Insomniac, ND, and GG who literally script and create fake shit for trailers and gameplay.

Even Ubisoft and CD Project no longer bullshits. AC Shadows, Avatar, Cyberpunk all looked better than their reveals thanks mostly to ray tracing basically allowing them to do what Sony studios try to do in their fake pre-rendered trailers.

The most disappointed moment for me this gen when I saw first Spiderman 2 gameplay with huge downgrade from it's reveal trailer, and the fanny fact about it that currently insomniac is the only sony studio that uses current gen technology lol, no wonder Cerny take insomniac tech director with him when he interviewed by digital Foundry

 

[SlimySnake]

Pk

The most disappointed moment for me this gen when I saw first Spiderman 2 gameplay with huge downgrade from it's reveal trailer, and the fanny fact about it that currently insomniac is the only sony studio that uses current gen technology lol, no wonder Cerny take insomniac tech director with him when he interviewed by digital Foundry

Yeah, poor guy is literally leading a small team of graphics programmers split between 3 different games at a time, and still more productive than other sony studios.

btw, insomniac were able to upgrade their RT reflection resolution from quarter res to half res, literally doubling the reflection resolution, in between the ratchet reveal and release. They were able to apply rt reflections to the entire hudson river for the sequel after not having RT Reflections on large bodies of water in Miles. This is brand new tech for a lot of these developers and there are a lot of optimizations that will allow these developers to get more out of the GPU as they get closer to launch. Now devs, who are sticking with decade old tech will probably not have the same luck because those techniques have already been maxed out. No surprise optimization wins there.

 

[SlimySnake]

I am really excited about BF6. The game even in its alpha stage is pushing a lot of fancy visuals with some really great volumetrics not seen in the series since BF1. I understand visibility is big in PvP shooters but the scale and atmosphere in BF1 elevated it to something more epic and sold that whole war aspect better than any other game in the series. This game reminds me of KZ2. Just so much going on at once despite poorly compressed twitter videos.

Criterion and EA Motive are making the campaign. I couldnt be more excited to see what they come up with. Both studios have real SP talent, and thankfully DICE has given up on trying to make shitty campaigns so we might actually get an awesome BF campaign this time around.

RE9 should also be getting revealed soon. Same goes for Far Cry 7 built on the Snowdrop engine, and AC Black Flags built on the Anvil Engine. Next few weeks are going to be incredibly exciting.

BTW, Precinct 13 is finally coming out tomorrow. Demo is out today. I know a few here were excited about it. Looks excellent. Will definitely be getting it.

 

[Neilg]

Didn't people told me that rockstar doesn't do downgrades??

Is this true?

Where did you get that first screenshot from?
It's from the editor - you can see the green/blue/red coordinate helper on the left as if someone has some geometry selected. That's a wacky oversight if this was released as an official screenshot.

edit: ha it really was an oversight. that's very surprising.

 

[Msamy]

Time to enjoy some technical analysis

 

[GymWolf]

Where did you get that first screenshot from?
It's from the editor - you can see the green/blue/red coordinate helper on the left as if someone has some geometry selected. That's a wacky oversight if this was released as an official screenshot.

Montage of pics i saw on reeeee, that's why i asked if it was real.

 

[Neilg]

Montage of pics i saw on reeeee, that's why i asked if it was real.

I just edited my reply, it is real - found a reddit post of someone calling out the same oversight 12 years ago.
Someone definitely ramped up some settings and grabbed that shot from the PC version of the editor without thinking about where it was being optimized down to.
The GTA6 trailers we know are grabbed from the ps5 version, i'm not too worried about a downgrade of that scale.

 

[Msamy]

I am really excited about BF6. The game even in its alpha stage is pushing a lot of fancy visuals with some really great volumetrics not seen in the series since BF1. I understand visibility is big in PvP shooters but the scale and atmosphere in BF1 elevated it to something more epic and sold that whole war aspect better than any other game in the series. This game reminds me of KZ2. Just so much going on at once despite poorly compressed twitter videos.

Criterion and EA Motive are making the campaign. I couldnt be more excited to see what they come up with. Both studios have real SP talent, and thankfully DICE has given up on trying to make shitty campaigns so we might actually get an awesome BF campaign this time around.

RE9 should also be getting revealed soon. Same goes for Far Cry 7 built on the Snowdrop engine, and AC Black Flags built on the Anvil Engine. Next few weeks are going to be incredibly exciting.

BTW, Precinct 13 is finally coming out tomorrow. Demo is out today. I know a few here were excited about it. Looks excellent. Will definitely be getting it.

Yes, can't wait for reveal next month, seeing many high quality leaked footage from different levels it's looks really amazing

 

[GymWolf]

I just edited my reply, it is real - found a reddit post of someone calling out the same oversight 12 years ago.
Someone definitely ramped up some settings and grabbed that shot from the PC version of the editor without thinking about where it was being optimized down to.
The GTA6 trailers we know are grabbed from the ps5 version, i'm not too worried about a downgrade of that scale.

I mean rockstar can say that the game is captured on a super nintendo, we have no idea if they are lying.

 

[nkill20]

Watching Alex's take on GTA and he's already calling Rockstar's tweet misleading. If the Pro version get 60 fps he might drive through a crowd of people.

 

[GymWolf]

Watching Alex's take on GTA and he's already calling Rockstar's tweet misleading. If the Pro version get 60 fps he might drive through a crowd of people.

The crowd of people can sleep well then.

 

[MadchesterManc]

I am really excited about BF6. The game even in its alpha stage is pushing a lot of fancy visuals with some really great volumetrics not seen in the series since BF1. I understand visibility is big in PvP shooters but the scale and atmosphere in BF1 elevated it to something more epic and sold that whole war aspect better than any other game in the series. This game reminds me of KZ2. Just so much going on at once despite poorly compressed twitter videos.

Criterion and EA Motive are making the campaign. I couldnt be more excited to see what they come up with. Both studios have real SP talent, and thankfully DICE has given up on trying to make shitty campaigns so we might actually get an awesome BF campaign this time around.

RE9 should also be getting revealed soon. Same goes for Far Cry 7 built on the Snowdrop engine, and AC Black Flags built on the Anvil Engine. Next few weeks are going to be incredibly exciting.

BTW, Precinct 13 is finally coming out tomorrow. Demo is out today. I know a few here were excited about it. Looks excellent. Will definitely be getting it.

Its impressive how well BF1 holds up visually nearly 9 years later, the audio is unmatched too with Atmos. Played recently with my brother and its still a beautiful game to look at while running extremely well on my 3090 (4K/120 ultra settings) Like you say the atmosphere and scope hasn't been there in the series since, BFV & 2042 are forgettable in comparison whilst being technically superior. The latest is looking impressive, so fingers crossed.

 

[yamaci17]

there won't be downgrades even if there are it won't be major
rockstar is just good at making great trailers


there is tons of gameplay and cutscene parts in this trailer too. some gameplay parts that are made in a way that they appear like cutscenes. this is nothing new

just as how great san andreas looked on ps2, gta 6 will look superb on ps5

 

[H . R . 2]

"As Ubisoft's Nicolas Lopez said during a GDC 2025 presentation, it would take 2 whole years to pre-bake the lighting of Assassin's Creed: Shadows.
Let this sink in. Two whole years, just for pre-baking the lighting. Not only that, but the game would require 2TB of data.
And this right here is the reason why
a) a lot of games do not look as good as Uncharted 4, AC: Unity or The Last of Us,
and b) why more and more devs are replacing their rasterized techniques with RT."

-DSOgaming​

 

[SlimySnake]

"As Ubisoft's Nicolas Lopez said during a GDC 2025 presentation, it would take 2 whole years to pre-bake the lighting of Assassin's Creed: Shadows.
Let this sink in. Two whole years, just for pre-baking the lighting. Not only that, but the game would require 2TB of data.
And this right here is the reason why
a) a lot of games do not look as good as Uncharted 4, AC: Unity or The Last of Us,
and b) why more and more devs are replacing their rasterized techniques with RT."

-DSOgaming​

One thing I dont understand is that the Series S version and the performance versions of PS5 and XSX both have baked GI lighting. So didnt they actually ship the game with these baked textures?

I know they dont look as good and effectively look last gen in spots, but its weird to see them talk about this and then ship the game with baked GI anyway.

 

[SlimySnake]

Watching Alex's take on GTA and he's already calling Rockstar's tweet misleading. If the Pro version get 60 fps he might drive through a crowd of people.

Not just him. Richard and Oliver dont believe it either.

I dont blame them. It looks better than anything we've ever seen and if rockstar is literally saying 50% of this was gameplay then its probably blowing minds. I have personally always believed these consoles were capable of these graphics so im not too surprised myself. But these guys gave indiana jones graphics goty last year so they are probably a bit embarrassed that something like this is possible on consoles and are in denial.

 

[Msamy]

Not just him. Richard and Oliver dont believe it either.

I dont blame them. It looks better than anything we've ever seen and if rockstar is literally saying 50% of this was gameplay then its probably blowing minds. I have personally always believed these consoles were capable of these graphics so im not too surprised myself. But these guys gave indiana jones graphics goty last year so they are probably a bit embarrassed that something like this is possible on consoles and are in denial.

The matrix demo on the beginning of the gen should have been the standard long time ago but finally we are there except for sony studios

 

[H . R . 2]

while what Kojima said the other day , that he had to double down on the art and cinematography of DS2 to make up for the insufficient power of PS5 is for the most part BS, it does indicates that a bigger shift is happening in the industry...they are now realising that when an engine is sufficiently upgraded and with something like RTGI being now more accessible than ever, you can only push the engine so much in a single gen, especially if you're an indie studio like Kojipro

but you can always dramatically boost those engine upgrades with calculated cinematography ( and I'd like to juxtapose that against art direction because that's only a small piece of the puzzle and that's the first thing most people think of when 'good art' is mentioned )

but as [sort of] confirmed by DF in their second analysis of GTAVI's second trailer , the combination of decent engine upgrades and great cinematography [when in full swing: camera shakes, angles/lenses/ lighting/ color grading/ post-processing/ composition] always yields impressive results on the screen [every time I marvelled at the visuals of a game [ not gameplay], I have been impressed by good cinematography.

[e.g. The Matrix Demo, HellbladeII, SH2,GTAVI, Callisto, The Order, TLOU2 cutscenes, GOW 2018 reveal trailer, Alan Wake2, Marvel The Rise of Hydra]
that's how more indie developers are managing to capture our attention with their games
otherwise you end up with something like REDFALL

the only exceptions where cinematography hasn't elevated the visuals is when the engine hasn't been fully utilised. a game like Mindseye, clearly a very cinematic looking game but the lack of RT, good physics and animations has made it mediocre looking. I will be more than glad if proven wrong

Not just him. Richard and Oliver dont believe it either.

I dont blame them. It looks better than anything we've ever seen and if rockstar is literally saying 50% of this was gameplay then its probably blowing minds. I have personally always believed these consoles were capable of these graphics so im not too surprised myself. But these guys gave indiana jones graphics goty last year so they are probably a bit embarrassed that something like this is possible on consoles and are in denial.

so maybe that's why despite seeing the modest engine upgrades in Indie, DF felt compelled to choose the game for the best visuals of the year: cinematography akin to that of the movies

 

[nkill20]

while what Kojima said the other day , that he had to double down on the art and cinematography of DS2 to make up for the insufficient power of PS5 is for the most part BS, it does indicates that a bigger shift is happening in the industry...they are now realising that when an engine is sufficiently upgraded and with something like RTGI being now more accessible than ever, you can only push the engine so much in a single gen, especially if you're an indie studio like Kojipro

but you can always dramatically boost those engine upgrades with calculated cinematography ( and I'd like to juxtapose that against art direction because that's only a small piece of the puzzle and that's the first thing most people think of when 'good art' is mentioned )

but as [sort of] confirmed by DF in their second analysis of GTAVI's second trailer , the combination of decent engine upgrades and great cinematography [when in full swing: camera shakes, angles/lenses/ lighting/ color grading/ post-processing/ composition] always yields impressive results on the screen [every time I marvelled at the visuals of a game [ not gameplay], I have been impressed by good cinematography.

[e.g. The Matrix Demo, HellbladeII, SH2,GTAVI, Callisto, The Order, TLOU2 cutscenes, GOW 2018 reveal trailer, Alan Wake2, Marvel The Rise of Hydra]
that's how more indie developers are managing to capture our attention with their games
otherwise you end up with something like REDFALL

the only exceptions where cinematography hasn't elevated the visuals is when the engine hasn't been fully utilised. a game like Mindseye, clearly a very cinematic looking game but the lack of RT, good physics and animations has made it mediocre looking. I will be more than glad if proven wrong



so maybe that's why despite seeing the modest engine upgrades in Indie, DF felt compelled to choose the game for the best visuals of the year: cinematography akin to that of the movies

They chose it because it was 60fps and had a path tracing mode dont kid yourself.

 

[BlownUpRich]

I think DF fails to differentiate between cutscenes & gameplay in GTA 6, there are gameplay sequences in the trailer, but they're just viewed from a different camera angle using Rockstar's Editor tool that was present in GTA 5 & RDR 2.

- Alex defined gameplay as "camera behind player" and tried to assert that there aren't any gameplay sequences at all because of that, and he called Rockstar "disingenuous."

- Richard suggested that they haven't seen any "gameplay systems" at play here to suggest that some shots are in fact "gameplay" asking the question "what sort of gameplay mechanics are we seeing?"

- Oliver saying that it is a cutscene as long as you show off (even gameplay) with different camera angles & use of Depth of Field.

What they fail to assess is that there can be full-on cutscenes where they are engaging in conversations using good-old motion capture like Brian talking to Jason here.

And there are moments where these are straight-up gameplay sequences but with different camera angles, we're seeing "gameplay systems" in action here like what Richard demanded but with a different camera angle.

Rockstar has always done that for so many years now, which is using gameplay sequences but with different camera angles, and I think it's fair to call those "gameplay shots" but with a different camera angle, they should not be called "cutscenes" like what Oliver suggested, I mean there are literally no graphical or asset differences between gameplay & cutscenes in Rockstar's games anyways except cutscenes usually employ artificial point lights & Depth of Field effects to flesh out the characters in any given scene (DoF can be found in gameplay when you're looking half-way down in GTA 5 and/or target locking with your gun), much like movies but that's besides the point, there aren't reasons to hold much doubt here, there is this gameplay shot in a GTA 4 trailer where we're 100% seeing gameplay here but with a unique camera angle, this, by definition, makes it gameplay, not a cutscene.

Cutscene implies that there are events that are impossible to do through gameplay means, for example, Brian having a conversation with Jason, in other words, scripted events.

When you weight down what Rockstar said in their tweet: "Grand Theft Auto VI Trailer 2 was captured entirely in-game from a PlayStation 5, comprised of equal parts gameplay and cutscenes."

I believe this categorization is entirely fair, distinguishing between cutscene sequences and gameplay footage. By their very nature, cutscenes employ specific camera angles, and while this trailer incorporates similar angles in gameplay, this does not conflate the two. Gameplay has the dynamic systems and natural flow that are unburdened by scripted moments. Thus, it is reasonable for both, us fans, and Rockstar to delineate cutscenes from gameplay sequences, despite their shared use of varied camera angles. So I think is it fair to assume that Digital Foundry's inclination to amalgamate both under the umbrella of "cutscenes" as an imprecise and unjust characterization, this speaks volumes as to how unbelievably good GTA VI looks, but that shouldn't justify DF's characterization here. If you wanted to, let's say, be scrupulous about it, then Rockstar should've probably said: "those gameplay shots used different camera angles" but everyone and their mothers know that, we're just dissecting which is gameplay & which is cutscene & I think that's a strong testament to Rockstar's unbelievable levels of detail & realism that has not been done nor seen in any game to date, also I think it's a healthy way to get people excited & speculate which is which, it's cool actually, reminds me of the older days when fans dissected these wonderful trailers.

I had contemplated to type this final paragraph, but it strikes me as DF is trying to save face here & are trying to argue against Rockstar rather than analyzing it for what it is, no one said it is a 100% gameplay like how you play the game with these different camera angles, everyone understands that the camera will be behind Jason all the time, what people & Rockstar are saying is that these are completely gameplay sequences but played out with unique camera angles, Rockstar is no stranger to that, and I don't think DF is stranger to that either, but what I am seeing here is DF not admitting or even entertaining this idea, which comes off as defense...

 

[TheRedRiders]

The GTA footage really seems to have DF worked up, Alex should stick to talking about path tracing or some crap for the millionth time.

 

[SlimySnake]

while what Kojima said the other day , that he had to double down on the art and cinematography of DS2 to make up for the insufficient power of PS5 is for the most part BS, it does indicates that a bigger shift is happening in the industry...they are now realising that when an engine is sufficiently upgraded and with something like RTGI being now more accessible than ever, you can only push the engine so much in a single gen, especially if you're an indie studio like Kojipro

but you can always dramatically boost those engine upgrades with calculated cinematography ( and I'd like to juxtapose that against art direction because that's only a small piece of the puzzle and that's the first thing most people think of when 'good art' is mentioned )

but as [sort of] confirmed by DF in their second analysis of GTAVI's second trailer , the combination of decent engine upgrades and great cinematography [when in full swing: camera shakes, angles/lenses/ lighting/ color grading/ post-processing/ composition] always yields impressive results on the screen [every time I marvelled at the visuals of a game [ not gameplay], I have been impressed by good cinematography.

[e.g. The Matrix Demo, HellbladeII, SH2,GTAVI, Callisto, The Order, TLOU2 cutscenes, GOW 2018 reveal trailer, Alan Wake2, Marvel The Rise of Hydra]
that's how more indie developers are managing to capture our attention with their games
otherwise you end up with something like REDFALL

the only exceptions where cinematography hasn't elevated the visuals is when the engine hasn't been fully utilised. a game like Mindseye, clearly a very cinematic looking game but the lack of RT, good physics and animations has made it mediocre looking. I will be more than glad if proven wrong



so maybe that's why despite seeing the modest engine upgrades in Indie, DF felt compelled to choose the game for the best visuals of the year: cinematography akin to that of the movies

The problem with going all in on cinematography is that open world games are too large and too varied to get every single lighting condition perfectly lit. Thats why you need ray tracing or realtime GI to do accurately light the areas on their own. We've seen what happens as devs ambitions grow and their games get bigger, not all levels get the same love and the games feel cheap or uneven.

There is a reason why Death Stranding 2 looks so much better in cutscenes. They are just blasting each cutscene with lights that cannot fake during gameplay. At least not all the time. I noticed the same thing in TLOU1 remake. The cutscenes looked amazing, but the rest of the game was like this bizarre mix of drab and dull lighting that looked dated as fuck.

I am sure DS2, GOT2, and Intergallactic will look stunning, but we've seen the limits of baked GI solutions in HFW, GOW Ragnorak, Spiderman 2, and we've seen what realtime GI can do in Avatar, Ass Creed, Hb2, wukong and Sh2. Wukong has some stunning cinematography. You can do both.

 

[Audiophile]

I don't get why DF keep playing dumb with things like this. If they're saying "gameplay" it's clearly implicit that it's gameplay with the camera moved and the hud off.

 

[H . R . 2]

They chose it because it was 60fps and had a path tracing mode dont kid yourself.

I happen to agree with you and SlimySnake , I am just trying to say they might have chosen that game on the grounds of its cinematography as well.
the game although visually and technically lackluster, tried its best to emulate the style of the movies in that regard and it succeeded for the most part. we can't deny that

The problem with going all in on cinematography is that open world games are too large and too varied to get every single lighting condition perfectly lit. Thats why you need ray tracing or realtime GI to do accurately light the areas on their own. We've seen what happens as devs ambitions grow and their games get bigger, not all levels get the same love and the games feel cheap or uneven.

of course, goes without saying, I was referring to cutscenes, main missions and setpieces.
The Matrix Demo, however, was one of those games that was surprisingly consistent across its open world, in terms of visuals, atmosphere, and cinematography.
admittedly there was not much going on. BUT GTAVI will most certainly top all of that next year

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

The GTA footage really seems to have DF worked up, Alex should stick to talking about path tracing or some crap for the millionth time.

He'll get his win in a couple days when Doom comes out.

 

[Portugeezer]

I don't get why DF keep playing dumb with things like this. If they're saying "gameplay" it's clearly implicit that it's gameplay with the camera moved and the hud off.

Yeah, it was a bit strange how obtuse they seemed.

They only good point they made is that, even if was captured gameplay with some sort of free roaming camera, you can still create the perfect angles and whatnot to create the best looking shots.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

They chose it because it was 60fps and had a path tracing mode dont kid yourself.

Not only DF but NX Gamer had Indiana as goty for visuals ...a game that came out the same year as Hellblade 2! No wonder devs target 60 fps instead of next gen graphics! I can't even blame them either as HB2 was so much of a walking sim that saying it had "best visuals" almost feels like cheating...

Sad though they didn't just give the award to HB2 for what those devs achieved but I'm sure Indiana with path tracing at 60 looked damn good.

 

[Audiophile]

DF with Alex in particular seem to be more concerned with whether something is technically impressive in terms of what's going on under the hood as opposed to the combined result on the screen.

I don't really consider it impressive if it's not self-evident.

 

[Msamy]

Not only DF but NX Gamer had Indiana as goty for visuals ...a game that came out the same year as Hellblade 2! No wonder devs target 60 fps instead of next gen graphics! I can't even blame them either as HB2 was so much of a walking sim that saying it had "best visuals" almost feels like cheating...

Sad though they didn't just give the award to HB2 for what those devs achieved but I'm sure Indiana with path tracing at 60 looked damn good.

But at least ID tech engine support rtgi and rt reflections on consoles sony first party studios except insomniac looks like they are the only ones who don't know about that tech currently, lol even FromSoftware upgraded there legacy bullshit engine with some ray tracing tech

 

[BlownUpRich]

of course, goes without saying, I was referring to cutscenes, main missions and setpieces.
The Matrix Demo, however, was one of those games that was surprisingly consistent across its open world, in terms of visuals, atmosphere, and cinematography.
admittedly there was not much going on. BUT GTAVI will most certainly top all of that next year

I will say Matrix demo had an obscene amount of cars & NPCs on screen that I don't think has been beaten by any other game to this day, Spider Man 2 comes to mind though, that game had a crazy amount of cars & NPCs on screen!

Also those cars in Matrix are all interactable with very impressive physics & deformation systems, next-gen dare I say.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

But at least ID tech engine support rtgi and rt reflections on consoles sony first party studios except insomniac looks like they are the only ones who don't know about that tech currently, lol even FromSoftware upgraded there legacy bullshit engine with some ray tracing tech

I know it's crazy. Actually, I just remembered that the Demon Souls director said that the game would have RT only for a week later to retract that statement. I also remember when Returnal was about to come out there was talk that it would use RT but that turned out to just be for audio. Then Returnal released on PC with RT, fast forward to last week it gets its Pro patch without RT ...that rubs me the wrong way.

GT7 is the only other one that uses it but it's PSSR + RT has really bad IQ. Sony and it's studios are just not delivering this gen. I do think Death Stranding 2 will look really good still but Ghost of Yotei? I rewatched the trailer again today and while the character rendering looks a lot better as soon as they cut to gameplay I'm seeing the exact same rendering I see in Tsushima. Such little improvement man it is there but it's tiny like draw distance.

I know people were saying Intergalactic has RT reflections which would be cool and could potentially be used to great effect in a sci fi world but damn Sony can't we get ONE game with rtgi at least? Imagine what ND could do with it ...or a new God of War..

 

[BlownUpRich]

Looking tasty! Can't wait for it!

 

[Msamy]

I know it's crazy. Actually, I just remembered that the Demon Souls director said that the game would have RT only for a week later to retract that statement. I also remember when Returnal was about to come out there was talk that it would use RT but that turned out to just be for audio. Then Returnal released on PC with RT, fast forward to last week it gets its Pro patch without RT ...that rubs me the wrong way.

GT7 is the only other one that uses it but it's PSSR + RT has really bad IQ. Sony and it's studios are just not delivering this gen. I do think Death Stranding 2 will look really good still but Ghost of Yotei? I rewatched the trailer again today and while the character rendering looks a lot better as soon as they cut to gameplay I'm seeing the exact same rendering I see in Tsushima. Such little improvement man it is there but it's tiny like draw distance.

I know people were saying Intergalactic has RT reflections which would be cool and could potentially be used to great effect in a sci fi world but damn Sony can't we get ONE game with rtgi at least? Imagine what ND could do with it ...or a new God of War..

Alex from digital Foundry suggest that those reflection on intergalactic are planar reflections not rt ones hope he is wrong

 

[Gonzito]

I don't get why DF keep playing dumb with things like this. If they're saying "gameplay" it's clearly implicit that it's gameplay with the camera moved and the hud off.

Yes. I was listening a bit that part of the video and thought that they were being extremely pedantic. Alex said I am not trying to be pedantic, no man, you are being pedantic right now, stop it lol

If Rockstar is saying its gameplay footage, then its gameplay. Cut the crap

I dont like how entitled and arrogant these guys can be sometimes

 

[Bulletbrain]

And there are moments where these are straight-up gameplay sequences but with different camera angles, we're seeing "gameplay systems" in action here like what Richard demanded but with a different camera angle.

Rockstar has always done that for so many years now, which is using gameplay sequences but with different camera angles, and I think it's fair to call those "gameplay shots" but with a different camera angle, they should not be called "cutscenes" like what Oliver suggested, I mean there are literally no graphical or asset differences between gameplay & cutscenes in Rockstar's games anyways except cutscenes usually employ artificial point lights & Depth of Field effects to flesh out the characters in any given scene (DoF can be found in gameplay when you're looking half-way down in GTA 5 and/or target locking with your gun), much like movies but that's besides the point, there aren't reasons to hold much doubt here, there is this gameplay shot in a GTA 4 trailer where we're 100% seeing gameplay here but with a unique camera angle, this, by definition, makes it gameplay, not a cutscene.

Problem is this.

The above GIF could be showing a direct capture of gameplay where a player is in full control of the camera. They can choose to move the camera anywhere but sees/hears the plan and looks up. The motion you see is directly caused by a player moving the camera up.

IF this was the case, the scene is 100% gameplay. Key factor is FULL control over the camera. Since the player can choose to look anywhere, it is difficult for devs to use cutscene "tricks" to elevate graphical presentation.

However, the GIF could also easily be a capture where the player has NO control over the camera and its movement. Essentially a First-Person Perspective "cutscene". Key difference is that the camera was not moved by a player, it was scripted to move. No player interaction.

In such a case, we cannot term it "gameplay". When the camera is already "pre-directed" or "scripted" to move in a certain way at a certain time, devs can easily use "tricks" to enhance what is in view.

This is why I'm ok with DF stance of waiting for undeniable game play footage, showcasing actual camera/player movement. I don't want DF to be fanboying and gushing over everything in sight, let them take a more critical/prudent stance. If they are proven wrong later, that's fine. Well done, Rockstar. But I prefer DF to be more cautions and critical in general.

 

[Xtib81]

People here and DF seem to be more concerned with whether something is technically impressive in terms of what's going on under the hood as opposed to the combined result on the screen.

I don't really consider it impressive if it's not self-evident.

You're right + Fixed that for you.

 

[SABRE220]

lol The cope is real.

Maybe they meant naughty dog are passing on the baton/torch and bowing out this gen.

 

[GymWolf]

I like Rockstar but the idea they don't downgrade is laughable, hell, id and Imsoniac have downgraded, just more subtly than say EA or Ubisoft. Game graphics dont get upgraded unless its a multiplayer game.

The reveal of panderman 2 is not a light downgrade compared to the final game, they ditched all the fancy light system.

Those pictures are from wolverine millstone 13 alpha build I don't think the final version are gonna surpass them on graphics

Spoiler

These screen are laughably bad, of course it is gonna look better.

 

[BlownUpRich]

Problem is this.

The above GIF could be showing a direct capture of gameplay where a player is in full control of the camera. They can choose to move the camera anywhere but sees/hears the plan and looks up. The motion you see is directly caused by a player moving the camera up.

IF this was the case, the scene is 100% gameplay. Key factor is FULL control over the camera. Since the player can choose to look anywhere, it is difficult for devs to use cutscene "tricks" to elevate graphical presentation.

However, the GIF could also easily be a capture where the player has NO control over the camera and its movement. Essentially a First-Person Perspective "cutscene". Key difference is that the camera was not moved by a player, it was scripted to move. No player interaction.

In such a case, we cannot term it "gameplay". When the camera is already "pre-directed" or "scripted" to move in a certain way at a certain time, devs can easily use "tricks" to enhance what is in view.

This is why I'm ok with DF stance of waiting for undeniable game play footage, showcasing actual camera/player movement. I don't want DF to be fanboying and gushing over everything in sight, let them take a more critical/prudent stance. If they are proven wrong later, that's fine. Well done, Rockstar. But I prefer DF to be more cautions and critical in general.

Of course, you can be critical or more prudent, it's why I highlighted that in my comment stating the following:

If you wanted to, let's say, be scrupulous about it, then Rockstar should've probably said: "those gameplay shots used different camera angles" but everyone and their mothers know that, we're just dissecting which is gameplay & which is cutscene & I think that's a strong testament to Rockstar's unbelievable levels of detail & realism that has not been done nor seen in any game to date...

It's their conclusions that I disagree with, which is them not differentiating cutscenes & gameplay & instead labeled both as "cutscenes", I label it as cutscenes & gameplay but with different camera angles & I think there is a clear-cut distinction between cutscenes & gameplay, one is scripted, the other is simply not (unless there are scripted events, animations etc), it's why it came off as them defending their position rather than entertaining the idea or even mend their 1st impressions in light of Rockstar's aforementioned tweet, I think it is important to differentiate a cutscene & gameplay laced with different camera angles, and those angles may "hide" certain scenes that may not look as flattering, and sometimes this goes the other around since it is gameplay & anything can happen in a very unscripted manner, but now we're arguing if gameplay moments in the trailer look better than the gameplay without camera angles or not, we're not arguing if they are cutscenes or not, see? That's the difference I am highlighting.

And another point, Rockstar games have always looked better in gameplay than cutscenes, sure, gameplay doesn't have the direction & the glamor of carefully directed cutscenes, and that's natural, the gameplay scenes do look more impressive & striking, but that's another topic entirely.

Oh and don't worry about being a DF fanboy, they're one of my favorite YouTube channels ever, I always defend them, I just didn't side with them on this, it's OK I think.

 

[SABRE220]

Sony just wasted the great potential for this engine and game

It's the easy way out for Sony this gen, instead of pushing tech this gen and raising the bar, they are more than happy just getting things running at 60fps to save cost and effort in pushing detail/pipelines and assets.

 

[GymWolf]

nah, it will look way better than this. expect ratchet quality graphics since this isnt an open world game like spiderman 2.

Lol nah, ratchet aim for the pixar look, wolvy is gonna aim for sp2 style so it's gonna look better because it is smaller but it's not gonna reach ratchet quality, pixar style is order of magnitude easier to do than photorealistic, cmon.