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[Mr Moose]

Go on?

Theres +/- to both consoles GPUs.
PS5 clocks are faster, it has a higher pixel fillrate than the slower Series X.
Series X should perform better if things like ray tracing is being used, since AMDs RT is on their CUs in RDNA2.
There's the split GDDR RAM on the Series X, could potentially be an issue.
Different engines might favour one over the other.
CPUs, Series X is 100Mhz higher, PS5 has hardware that offloads things from the CPU.
Mark Cerny said it's easier to fill the 36 CUs than it would be with 48 CUs.

You can't just rely on TF for performance.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Theres +/- to both consoles GPUs.
PS5 clocks are faster, it has a higher pixel fillrate than the slower Series X.
Series X should perform better if things like ray tracing is being used, since AMDs RT is on their CUs in RDNA2.
There's the split GDDR RAM on the Series X, could potentially be an issue.
Different engines might favour one over the other.
CPUs, Series X is 100Mhz higher, PS5 has hardware that offloads things from the CPU.
Mark Cerny said it's easier to fill the 36 CUs than it would be with 48 CUs.

You can't just rely on TF for performance.

I can't believe we are having this same discussion almost 5 years later.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

I feel so sorry for everybody having to witness Sony apologists bumping ancient threads and creating new ones to make Xbox look bad, all because Sony are having such a creatively bankrupt generation and they cannot stand the discourse around it.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

I can't believe we are having this same discussion almost 5 years later.

Now is good time to revisit this.

I was hoping something concrete will come of it after enough time is passed. All I am getting is fanboys cobbled together explanations.

No doubt Cerny must be genius, he designed something that defy conventional wisdom. If he would explain what matters most, maybe AMD Nvidia can learn a thing or two on how to design gpus.

 

[Mr Moose]

 

[DeepEnigma]

I feel so sorry for everybody having to witness Sony apologists bumping ancient threads and creating new ones to make Xbox look bad, all because Sony are having such a creatively bankrupt generation and they cannot stand the discourse around it.

"They'll evangelize" - Phil Spencer

 

[DeepEnigma]

Now is good time to revisit this.

I was hoping something concrete will come of it after enough time is passed. All I am getting is fanboys cobbled together explanations.

No doubt Cerny must be genius, he designed something that defy conventional wisdom. If he would explain what matters most, maybe AMD Nvidia can learn a thing or two on how to design gpus.

More gaslighting and projection from the evangelical brandtards.

 

[Imtjnotu]

I think he wants Xbox to go away. It's holding back the PS5 pro. Imagine what the PS5 pro could achieve if it wasn't for that pesky Series X, And S.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

More gaslighting and projection from the evangelical brandtards.

 

[DeepEnigma]

 

[Hudo]

I am beginning to feel offended that I got warnings for necroing cooler threads.

 

[Physiognomonics]

Theres +/- to both consoles GPUs.
PS5 clocks are faster, it has a higher pixel fillrate than the slower Series X.
Series X should perform better if things like ray tracing is being used, since AMDs RT is on their CUs in RDNA2.
There's the split GDDR RAM on the Series X, could potentially be an issue.
Different engines might favour one over the other.
CPUs, Series X is 100Mhz higher, PS5 has hardware that offloads things from the CPU.
Mark Cerny said it's easier to fill the 36 CUs than it would be with 48 CUs.

You can't just rely on TF for performance.

in theory but almost all games relying on hardware RT run faster on PS5 (sometimes there is a 20% edge for PS5). The games using software RT (so compute + bandwidth) do usually run a bit better on XSX.

The PS5 cache advantage + better APIs are possibly explaining the gap.

 

[SomeGit]

in theory but almost all games relying on hardware RT run faster on PS5 (sometimes there is a 20% edge for PS5). The games using software RT (so compute + bandwidth) do usually run a bit better on XSX.

The PS5 cache advantage + better APIs are possibly explaining the gap.

Not really true lately, Ass Creed was faster on Series X. There also the recent games like Indy and Doom but I can see the argument for those.

 

[kevboard]

in theory but almost all games relying on hardware RT run faster on PS5 (sometimes there is a 20% edge for PS5). The games using software RT (so compute + bandwidth) do usually run a bit better on XSX.

The PS5 cache advantage + better APIs are possibly explaining the gap.

every hardware RT game that released in the last couple of months runs markedly faster on Series X.

again, Ubisoft even published a graph with the milliseconds of render time each system needs for RT, and the Series X was faster.

software RT games too often run faster now, as we have seen in Fortnite for example.

 

[BlackTron]

Chickens are very prolific, and can keep running around even with their heads cut off.

He'll be back with an alt. Be suspicious of anyone behaving extra crispy around here. Don't buy it, he's original recipe

 

[adamsapple]

My man truth'd his way to a deep fryer

 

[Pedro Motta]

My man truth'd his way to a deep fryer

Most people do in this forum.

 

[Bernardougf]

Some of us knew before Spiderman 2 even launched we were heading into a drier spell

This gen presentation graphics with the gaas spending made by Jimbo... and then that awful playstation showcase with fcking nothing ... the writing was on the wall in huge letters ...

 

[onQ123]

I'm actually gonna miss the little chicken

 

[BlackTron]

My man truth'd his way to a deep fryer

It is simply not true that this thread got bumped due to PS fans frustration with Sony over games or whatever else.

This thread got bumped because Xbox dropped the ball all on their own. And they dropped it a LOT harder than Sony did this gen. That is apparent both in their hardware and software strategy. Which is pretty sad, for how many fuckups PS has made. And how X ostensibly has an additional 2TF, they just didn't plan for it to get purchased, or seemingly engineer it as well either.

 

[adamsapple]

I'm actually gonna miss the little chicken

 

[Skifi28]

I'm actually gonna miss the little chicken

Let's not overreact.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

I'm actually gonna miss the little chicken

 

[onQ123]

Wait what did I do? I thought the threads about Xbox not being available in stores &
people saying Xbox is done making consoles got to him & he went out in a blaze of Glory

 

[Skifi28]

he went out in a blaze of Glory

 

[Bitstream]

 

[Unknown Soldier]

I'm actually gonna miss the little chicken

Don't worry, he's probably got like 5 alts ready to go

 

[bender]

 

[Crayon]

Awe.... not little chicken.

Not joking made me hungry.

 

[gerth666]

One of the most legendary moments of the generation, after months of FUD towards PS5, the first major multiplatform release came out like this and it was time to resort to the green tools

The funniest was the reaction of the DF guys.
John's brain imploded in real time

 

[Topher]

 

[Topher]

My man troll'd his way to a deep fryer

ftfy

 

[Steve Holt]

I'm gonna miss Bernd

 

[Topher]

I'm actually gonna miss the little chicken

The last words of Little Chicken ....

I bet his penis is massive.

 

[adamsapple]

The last words of Little Chicken ....

Lived a little chicken, died a giant cock.

 

[BlackTron]

Lived a little chicken, died a giant cock.

Let's all pour a little accelerant out onto our homie

 

[mckmas8808]

This was in March of 2020, less than a year before the launch of the base consoles. They certainly did not have the specs of the PS5 Pro before the PS5 launched. Phil might have been confident about XSX but at no point would he think the XSS was more powerful than the PS5. He also thought the Series S would be the best selling Xbox.

This doesn't show what HeisenbergFX4 said was wrong though. He seems VERY much to believe the Xbox Series S was going to be a huge winner for them here in 2020. I wonder why.........

 

[Mibu no ookami]

This doesn't show what HeisenbergFX4 said was wrong though. He seems VERY much to believe the Xbox Series S was going to be a huge winner for them here in 2020. I wonder why.........

He makes no mention of the Series S in this e-mail and any inference would suggest he is referring to the Series X.

He thought the Series S would win on price alone especially in the later stages of the generation as a more mass market product.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

This doesn't show what HeisenbergFX4 said was wrong though. He seems VERY much to believe the Xbox Series S was going to be a huge winner for them here in 2020. I wonder why.........

That email he is referring to is in March of 2020 and the PS5 Pro designs did begin at some point in 2020 and MS 100% knew the Pro was coming and the approx specs Sony settled on

They did not know about PSSR which no one mentioned prior to Morse Law is Dead breaking that document

Heck I was told a long ass time ago between the 15-17 TF range of the Pro which I said here long before the Pro was ever acknowledged and I agreed to say things like "I am guessing" because of a deal I agreed to with Mod of War here years ago so I didn't have to burn a source

Here is the quote and article as to when the PS5 Pro was greenlit sometime in 2020 and when shit like this gets the ok I can guarantee you the other camp knows what they are doing

With the PS5 Pro coming out very soon after we we publish this story, I wanted to ask about the timing of that versus what will be the actual next gen device. Are you waiting for Nintendo to make the first move with a Switch 2 announcement before you will get there? And what is the plan for rolling out Pro and making it clear who the product is for versus who the actual next generation device will be for?

Nishino: So we have done Pro in the last generation. We learned a lot from there. When we were selling PS4 Pro, in addition to the PS4, 20% of customers actually got the PS4 Pro. It was high end, it was premium tier. So there are potential users acquiring those kind of units. Interestingly enough, it was not just about highly engaged users; actually, new users comes to PlayStation to get PS4 Pro, as well. So we started working on PS5 Pro even before PS5 launches — it was another five-year project for us. So there was a conversation around whether we wanted to do another Pro or not. But the main thing was, there are technologies we can grow up in three years time or five years time. So the innovation and technology advancement is more quicker in a modern world. Phones are updating every year, PCs are updating every year. I don't think we'd go every year updates, but there are things we can package together to bring the greatest things into game console segment range. So that's the vision.

https://variety.com/2024/gaming/news/playstation-ceos-hideaki-nishino-hermen-hulst-1236194125/

This is as far as I go to proving someone else they are wrong and they can believe what they like

 

[mckmas8808]

That email he is referring to is in March of 2020 and the PS5 Pro designs did begin at some point in 2020 and MS 100% knew the Pro was coming and the approx specs Sony settled on

They did not know about PSSR which no one mentioned prior to Morse Law is Dead breaking that document

Heck I was told a long ass time ago between the 15-17 TF range of the Pro which I said here long before the Pro was ever acknowledged and I agreed to say things like "I am guessing" because of a deal I agreed to with Mod of War here years ago so I didn't have to burn a source

Here is the quote and article as to when the PS5 Pro was greenlit sometime in 2020 and when shit like this gets the ok I can guarantee you the other camp knows what they are doing

With the PS5 Pro coming out very soon after we we publish this story, I wanted to ask about the timing of that versus what will be the actual next gen device. Are you waiting for Nintendo to make the first move with a Switch 2 announcement before you will get there? And what is the plan for rolling out Pro and making it clear who the product is for versus who the actual next generation device will be for?

Nishino: So we have done Pro in the last generation. We learned a lot from there. When we were selling PS4 Pro, in addition to the PS4, 20% of customers actually got the PS4 Pro. It was high end, it was premium tier. So there are potential users acquiring those kind of units. Interestingly enough, it was not just about highly engaged users; actually, new users comes to PlayStation to get PS4 Pro, as well. So we started working on PS5 Pro even before PS5 launches — it was another five-year project for us. So there was a conversation around whether we wanted to do another Pro or not. But the main thing was, there are technologies we can grow up in three years time or five years time. So the innovation and technology advancement is more quicker in a modern world. Phones are updating every year, PCs are updating every year. I don't think we'd go every year updates, but there are things we can package together to bring the greatest things into game console segment range. So that's the vision.

https://variety.com/2024/gaming/news/playstation-ceos-hideaki-nishino-hermen-hulst-1236194125/

This is as far as I go to proving someone else they are wrong and they can believe what they like

Oh I totally believe you here. Not sure why Mibu no ookami is acting like he is on this. What you are claiming isn't even far fetched of a thought. It's clear that Mibu no ookami is misunderstanding what's being conveyed in that email that was unearthed during the court case.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

That email he is referring to is in March of 2020 and the PS5 Pro designs did begin at some point in 2020 and MS 100% knew the Pro was coming and the approx specs Sony settled on

They did not know about PSSR which no one mentioned prior to Morse Law is Dead breaking that document

Heck I was told a long ass time ago between the 15-17 TF range of the Pro which I said here long before the Pro was ever acknowledged and I agreed to say things like "I am guessing" because of a deal I agreed to with Mod of War here years ago so I didn't have to burn a source

Here is the quote and article as to when the PS5 Pro was greenlit sometime in 2020 and when shit like this gets the ok I can guarantee you the other camp knows what they are doing

With the PS5 Pro coming out very soon after we we publish this story, I wanted to ask about the timing of that versus what will be the actual next gen device. Are you waiting for Nintendo to make the first move with a Switch 2 announcement before you will get there? And what is the plan for rolling out Pro and making it clear who the product is for versus who the actual next generation device will be for?

Nishino: So we have done Pro in the last generation. We learned a lot from there. When we were selling PS4 Pro, in addition to the PS4, 20% of customers actually got the PS4 Pro. It was high end, it was premium tier. So there are potential users acquiring those kind of units. Interestingly enough, it was not just about highly engaged users; actually, new users comes to PlayStation to get PS4 Pro, as well. So we started working on PS5 Pro even before PS5 launches — it was another five-year project for us. So there was a conversation around whether we wanted to do another Pro or not. But the main thing was, there are technologies we can grow up in three years time or five years time. So the innovation and technology advancement is more quicker in a modern world. Phones are updating every year, PCs are updating every year. I don't think we'd go every year updates, but there are things we can package together to bring the greatest things into game console segment range. So that's the vision.

https://variety.com/2024/gaming/news/playstation-ceos-hideaki-nishino-hermen-hulst-1236194125/

This is as far as I go to proving someone else they are wrong and they can believe what they like

It's laughable that you think the e-mail is referring to the PS5 Pro when he specifically refers to the public reveal of the PS5 and taking 12 hours taking apart their specs. Specs you believe he already had. So why the 12 hours?

Honestly, hilarious.

 

[Zacfoldor]

Honestly the Xbox was just a huge dud this time. That'll make it even harder to catch on next time. They may subsist in the hardware market but not for long. Who knows what'll happen to Xbox in the future, but it's probably not good. When they finally ship the last console hardware people will say that it was obvious that this was coming and question why we are even discussing it. Of course I bought a XSX on launch. Xbox has a looooonnng way to go to convince me to drop a grand on something that says xbox ever again. It's getting to the point where the only steady Xbox gamers I know are contrarians.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Threw the picture into chatgpt to see what it would say and asked: "Is this e-mail referring to the PS5 or the PS5 Pro?"
The response:

This email is referring to the PlayStation 5 (PS5) — not the PS5 Pro.
Key context from the message:

• 
  
• Date: March 18, 2020 — this was the same day Sony held its official PS5 tech reveal via a presentation by Mark Cerny. It focused on the console's architecture and specs, including the custom SSD and audio engine.
• 
  
• Content: Phil Spencer expresses relief and confidence after seeing Sony's PS5 reveal and compares Xbox's upcoming product favorably. He notes this was a stressful day due to the competitive pressure, which wouldn't apply to a PS5 Pro mid-generation refresh.

At this point in 2020, the PS5 Pro was not yet publicly acknowledged or detailed, and the standard PS5 had not even launched yet (it released in November 2020).

So I kept pushing and asked: "Could Phil Spencer have been referring to the PS5 Pro's specs that Microsoft had become aware of in advance of public details and not the PS5?"

It's highly unlikely that Phil Spencer was referring to the PS5 Pro in this email, for several clear reasons:

---

• This email was sent on the same day as Sony's public tech reveal for the standard PlayStation 5.
• Sony's event featured Mark Cerny presenting PS5 specs — not anything about a PS5 Pro, which was not publicly acknowledged in 2020.
• Phil mentions:
  
  

  "...soaking in their unveil, taking apart their specs and looking at the community responses..."

  He is explicitly referencing a public reveal, not secret internal specs that wouldn't generate community feedback.

---

• Phil says:
  
  

  "I have to admit this morning when I woke up knowing the PS5 reveal was today..."

  He directly names the PS5, not "the next PlayStation," "the upgraded model," or any phrasing that might suggest the Pro.
• His message is emotional and tied to the relief and pride of Xbox being in a better competitive position — which only makes sense in relation to Sony's publicly shown PS5.

---

• If Microsoft had gained early knowledge of the PS5 Pro's specs in 2020:
  
  • That would be extremely confidential competitive intelligence.
  • An executive like Phil would not casually reference it in an email to Satya Nadella and Amy Hood with wording like "looking at the community responses."

---

Phil Spencer is unmistakably referring to the publicly revealed standard PlayStation 5 specs shown on March 18, 2020 — not to internal PS5 Pro specs. At that time, there was no PS5 Pro announcement, and if Microsoft knew of it privately, this would not have been the context or tone he used.


So while Microsoft may have learned of PS5 Pro plans earlier (a possibility based on later leaks or industry intel), this email is not evidence of that — it is about the base PS5.

Laughable that anyone would argue otherwise and laughable that mckmas8808 would co-sign.