I feel like taking the Red Pill was a bad idea.

Red or Blue Pill?

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Plies

Plies

GAF's Nicest Lunch Thief and Nosiest Dildo Archeologist
When you think about it. Taking the red pill was a really fucking stupid idea.

Yes, I'm talking about the Matrix. If you don't know, in the movie the protagonist is faced with a choice of taking either a red or blue pill.

Taking the red pill means that you get to come out of the Matrix. A simulation world that you never really know existed. I won't bore with more details because I'm sure 89% of us have seen the movie.

Anyways, I was on my epiphany toilet, when I well... had an epiphany. I'm not sure whether this has been done before or not. But I just want to point out that taking the red pill is a really bad idea.

A desolate wasteland??

This is what Neo is fighting for?

Can we even build a civilization out of that. Think about it.

At one point in the movie Morpheus says

"But we do know it was us that scorched the sky. At the time, they were dependent on solar power. It was believed they would be unable to survive without an energy source as abundant as the sun."
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How the fuck are people supposed to survive without the sun? Plants wont grow. And I have yet to see water outside of the Matrix.

Sure, the Matrix is only simulated reality, but it looks a hell of a lot nicer than this.

Now my knowledge of the series past the first one is limited, seeing as they have been permanently blocked out of my memory. But how are you supposed to bring a booming civilization from this? Am I right?
 
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For people who choose the red pill, I think the point is that living in a world that they feel is fake is like a never-ending torturous existential crisis. Being free of that and feeling in control of their own lives is a relief from that. On the other hand, they don't know ahead of time that the real world is a real shit hole, but most of those in the movie seem okay with it, aside from Cypher.

Besides, it's not like you'll never be able to experience the creature comforts of the matrix if you take the red pill. You still have access to matrix-like simulations and leisure programs.
 
I only bother with Matrix 1 nowadays, weren't the sequels about everything being a simulation or something? So that even getting out from the Matrix you were still in it or something. At least I remember seeing like endless Neos on a screen. Don't know, don't care, only the first movie is canon to me as it's elegantly simple and rewarding.

And like Rentahamster Rentahamster said, the Matrix world is such a mental torture to be in for some people that they look for any way out. So being forced into a wasteland is a better choice. Sort of how the Israelites might have had some comforts in Egypt, but it was still better as a nation to get out of there into the desert and eventually build something real for themselves.

I know the creators are trans, but I don't really sense much of that in the movie as I can apply the themes into my own straight life.
 
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bitbydeath said:
Be careful of that Red Pill.

www.bbc.com

The Matrix is a 'trans metaphor', Lilly Wachowski says - BBC News

Lilly Wachowski, who came out as trans in 2016, says the "world wasn't quite ready" in 1999.
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com
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Just because they are this way now, doesn't mean they were back then. Same thing with the creator of Celeste, I don't buy it. But if they're happy now, good luck to them

Matrix seems to basically be Ignorance Is Bliss: The Movie. A concept I can really see both sides on, depending on how much stress you're willing to put up with
 
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Trilobit said:
weren't the sequels about everything being a simulation or something?
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No, there is definitely just a matrix and a real world. The theories about multiple levels of matrices aren't accurate. The sequels were about unraveling the secrets of the origins of the matrix and the real relationship between the machines and the humans.
 
Trilobit said:
I know the creators are trans, but I don't really sense much of that in the movie as I can apply the themes into my own straight life.
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It was more subtle. Possibly suppressed due to studio interference. The theme of that unease of not living the real life you're supposed to be living is something that trans individuals would also experience.

It would have been more obvious if the original concept of Switch was kept. If I remember correctly, Switch was supposed to have a male-presenting appearance in the real world, but when in the matrix, her residual self image would take the form of a female-presenting body in order to represent how she viewed herself in her mind, which is what is constant between the real world and the matrix.
 
Plies said:
But I just want to point out that taking the red pill is a really bad idea.

A desolate wasteland??

This is what Neo is fighting for?

Can we even build a civilization out of that. Think about it.
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If you have watched the movie, then you'll remember that all of this is addressed within it.

Cypher's whole character arc was about this - he regrets taking the red pill, thinks that the real-world wasteland is not worth fighting for and resents Morpheus for convincing him to take the red pill. And his motivations and actions basically drive the second and third acts of the film.

The counter-point to this is also presented at the very beginning from Neo's point of view - he (and the others who got unplugged) can feel that this world is not real, that it is a dream and they keep trying to wake up. It is basically a slow torture to keep living in it.
 
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RickSanchez said:
If you have watched the movie, then you'll remember that all of this is addressed within it.

Cypher's whole character arc was about this - he regrets taking the red pill, thinks that the real-world wasteland is not worth fighting for and resents Morpheus for convincing him to take the red pill. And his motivations and actions basically drive the second and third acts of the film.

The counter-point to this is also presented at the very beginning from Neo's point of view - he (and the others who got unplugged) can feel that this world is not real, that it is a dream and they keep trying to wake up. It is basically a slow torture to keep living in it.
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So you would rather die?
 
Once you realize though that you could go back and start controlling things it might be worth going back in. I mean, if you think about it, Neo
Flying away intonthe sky at the end of the first one. At that point you could just manipulate the system to live the dream.
 
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The Matrix GIF


You would have to watch the film backwards -like Arson Sam- for it to make sense as a trans movie.
 
RickSanchez said:
If you have watched the movie, then you'll remember that all of this is addressed within it.

Cypher's whole character arc was about this - he regrets taking the red pill, thinks that the real-world wasteland is not worth fighting for and resents Morpheus for convincing him to take the red pill. And his motivations and actions basically drive the second and third acts of the film.

The counter-point to this is also presented at the very beginning from Neo's point of view - he (and the others who got unplugged) can feel that this world is not real, that it is a dream and they keep trying to wake up. It is basically a slow torture to keep living in it.
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I always wondered if Morpheus was referring to Cypher when he mentioned the rule about not waking up someone after a certain age, and he has "seen it before"
 
The Red Pill = Freedom

The Blue Pill = Ignorance

Freedom: You choose your own path.

Ignorance: Your path is chosen for you.

Both have their benefits, but too much of either and you will suffer.
 
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Durien said:
Once you realize though that you could go back and start controlling things it might be worth going back in. I mean, if you think about it, Neo
Flying away intonthe sky at the end of the first one. At that point you could just manipulate the system to live the dream.
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Neo being able to fly was because he was The One though, right? Like if they put Cypher back in without wiping his memory he's not going to be able to do that stuff.
 
DKehoe said:
Neo being able to fly was because he was The One though, right? Like if they put Cypher back in without wiping his memory he's not going to be able to do that stuff.
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Yup. Because normies aren't blessed with The Source, so they are limited to just bending the rules, not breaking them.
 
The Red Pill leads to knowing the truth, of course they would take it. Only when you have all the available information to you can you make the best decision for yourself.

Watch the other 2 films. Reloaded is the best of the trilogy in my humble opinion and explains a lot of the concerns you have. Yes there is food and water in the real world. The people who are offered the choice are the 1-2% of people in pods that are aware of the Matrix being a false environment, although only subconsciously, and reject being in it. Staying in would feel like having a "splinter" in their mind, forever, based on how Morpheus described it. Neo and the rest are fighting for humanity to not be literal livestock, harvested for their ability to produce electricity.

Taking the blue pill because the Matrix is "nicer" than the real world is like preferring to have sex with a VR Headset and a fuckdoll because the VR girl is prettier than any woman in real life.
 
Blue pill baby. In fact, if we eventually can make something like a matrix and make it however we like, i dont see a future where that's not what humanity is gonna want.
 
the matrix was never really deep and the original you can tell didn't have much thought behind it (hence human batteries and how the sequels all are hot shit messes).

So I doubt the blue pill/red pill meant anything more than, "do you wanna be cool and see the real world and do anime ninja stuff or be lame and go to work", even if they have desperately tried to retcon the meaning to be some dumb trans agenda (it clearly wasn't originally).

It was just a hodgepodge of Sci-fi tropes that sourced more from international sources rather than Western ones, which gave the movie a breath of fresh air, It was mostly the cinematography and trying to adapt animation to real life that propelled the movie into brilliance. Even the sequels could never top the set pieces and designs of the first movie.
 
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The last time someone had an epiphany on the toilet, a time traveler called Marty knocked on his door.

For me, def. the red pill. And then meet the Merowinger to eat all of his cake.
 
The thing is, Neo had no choice, because he was going mad. His mind was whispering everyday "there's something wrong" and he couldnt even sleep. To him, the 2 pill thing was not really a choice but a scape.

To normal people, taking the red pill would be stupid. I wouldnt want to live in a fucked up world, eating shit and showering once a week.
 
StueyDuck said:
the matrix was never really deep and the original you can tell didn't have much thought behind it (hence human batteries and how the sequels all are hot shit messes).

So I doubt the blue pill/red pill meant anything more than, "do you wanna be cool and see the real world and do anime ninja stuff or be lame and go to work", even if they have desperately tried to retcon the meaning to be some dumb trans agenda (it clearly wasn't originally).

It was just a hodgepodge of Sci-fi tropes that sourced more from international sources rather than Western ones, which gave the movie a breath of fresh air, It was mostly the cinematography and trying to adapt animation to real life that propelled the movie into brilliance. Even the sequels could never top the set pieces and designs of the first movie.
Click to expand...

There is a reason the Matrix had a profound effect on western culture and is still both loved and referenced to this day. Dismissing everything as tropes and nonsense is doing the movie a huge disservice. It's expertly written, paced and has themes that are still relevant, now maybe infinitely more than back in 1999.

I agree that them retroactively trying to bruteforce some trans allegory into it is dumb as fuck but the Wachowski bros clearly lost their minds somewhere between the second and third movie and they never recovered.


Read an interesting post on X that in the initial draft of the script the machines didn't use people's bodies for their battery power but people's brains for their computational power so the machines could run the Matrix. But WB execs thought this was too complex for the average movie goer so it was changed to body battery, a concept a child could understand.
 
SJRB said:
There is a reason the Matrix had a profound effect on western culture and is still both loved and referenced to this day. Dismissing everything as tropes and nonsense is doing the movie a huge disservice. It's expertly written, paced and has themes that are still relevant, now maybe infinitely more than back in 1999.

I agree that them retroactively trying to bruteforce some trans allegory into it is dumb as fuck but the Wachowski bros clearly lost their minds somewhere between the second and third movie and they never recovered.


Read an interesting post on X that in the initial draft of the script the machines didn't use people's bodies for their battery power but people's brains for their computational power so the machines could run the Matrix. But WB execs thought this was too complex for the average movie goer so it was changed to body battery, a concept a child could understand.
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On point.

People dismissing The Matrix are making the same mistake as the ones who today say that 2001 A Space Odyssey is just a classical music videoclip.

The Matrix is a masterpiece full of iconic lines and scenes that none has been able to surpass in 25 years.
 
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MayauMiao said:
The Matrix was a Dark City rip off.

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They were one year apart, man.

Maybe the Wachowskis have seen Dark City's script way before it began filming or something, or vice versa, but Matrix wasnt made less than a year after Dark City's release.

Angry_Megalodon said:
The thing is, Neo had no choice, because he was going mad. His mind was whispering everyday "there's something wrong" and he couldnt even sleep. To him, the 2 pill thing was not really a choice but a scape.

To normal people, taking the red pill would be stupid. I wouldnt want to live in a fucked up world, eating shit and showering once a week.
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Yeah, Neo was already disturbed by the Matrix. Choosing the red pill was a no brainer.

Which makes sense with the trans theme of not being happy with the live you live before transitioning.
 
MayauMiao said:
The Matrix was a Dark City rip off.

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Also has a ton of Ghost in the Shell.



Hugare said:
They were one year apart, man.

Maybe the Wachowskis have seen Dark City's script way before it began filming or something, or vice versa, but Matrix wasnt made less than a year after Dark City's release.
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The director of Dark City explains it in that video. An early version of Dark City was shown, without his approval, to the people making the Matrix, and the Matrix guys were so impressed that they even reused the same set for the rooftop chase scene - a set the Dark City director designed himself.

I think the Matrix is better than any of the movies it 'borrowed' from though.
 
SJRB said:
Read an interesting post on X that in the initial draft of the script the machines didn't use people's bodies for their battery power but people's brains for their computational power so the machines could run the Matrix. But WB execs thought this was too complex for the average movie goer so it was changed to body battery, a concept a child could understand.
Click to expand...

Keeping this and the original concept for Switch would have made the film more interesting.

However, I can see an alternate universe in which the original vision for The Matrix wasn't as popular because it went a little tooooo over the heads of people. Perhaps part of the movie's mainstream success is that it held back overly complicated scifi stuff as well as social commentary too ahead of its time.
 
I'd rather deal with an uncomfortable/painful truth than live in a comfortable lie. I would take the red pill every time.
 
calistan said:
Also has a ton of Ghost in the Shell.




The director of Dark City explains it in that video. An early version of Dark City was shown, without his approval, to the people making the Matrix, and the Matrix guys were so impressed that they even reused the same set for the rooftop chase scene - a set the Dark City director designed himself.

I think the Matrix is better than any of the movies it 'borrowed' from though.
Click to expand...


Kind of explain why Matrix 2 and 3 were such a letdown and Matrix 4 was shit. They can't find anyone else to rip off.
 
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At face value, it's about waking up to reality versus staying in comfortable illusion. But taken through a trans lens, the red pill can represent the moment of choosing to embrace your true identity, even if it's scary or hard. The blue pill is staying in a socially expected role—comfortable, but false.

This idea gains traction when you look at the directors' own journeys. Both Lana and Lilly Wachowski came out as trans after the films were made, and Lilly even said in an interview that The Matrix was a trans allegory, though they didn't realize it fully at the time which is the key thing someone else above mentionned...

Even Neo's arc fits: he knows something is "off" with the world, can't quite name it, and goes through a transformation that fundamentally changes how he sees himself and reality. Sound familiar?

Anyway, not saying it's only about this—but it's a fascinating angle that adds a lot of depth to the film's themes of identity, perception, and liberation. I don't much care for that myself personally but the movie is a masterpiece and a cult classic for a reason.
 
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SJRB said:
There is a reason the Matrix had a profound effect on western culture and is still both loved and referenced to this day. Dismissing everything as tropes and nonsense is doing the movie a huge disservice. It's expertly written, paced and has themes that are still relevant, now maybe infinitely more than back in 1999.

I agree that them retroactively trying to bruteforce some trans allegory into it is dumb as fuck but the Wachowski bros clearly lost their minds somewhere between the second and third movie and they never recovered.


Read an interesting post on X that in the initial draft of the script the machines didn't use people's bodies for their battery power but people's brains for their computational power so the machines could run the Matrix. But WB execs thought this was too complex for the average movie goer so it was changed to body battery, a concept a child could understand.
Click to expand...

I'm not saying there isn't themes and meaning or that the film didn't have an effect on most of Western culture (it did, everything referenced the Matrix slow mo in some form). Just that it was never groundbreaking or all that deep, and that most of its themes and ideas were aped from other sources, most of which were anime, which I believe they themselves admitted to at the time.

But the whole blue pill / red pill was never some deep dive into human nature and existentialism, it clearly was at the time just a framing device for, do you wanna be cool and badass or a lame office dude. It's just one of those things that people study years later trying to find more meaning when there usually isn't.

I think it was Billy Joel who wrote a song that everyone kept trying to find meaning in and he was like, nah it's just the things you hear quite literally, it's like the South Park episode of Scrotie Mcboogerballs.
 
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SJRB said:
if-morpheus-used-this-as-his-sales-pitch-to-neo-v0-3p5ligrmc8od1.jpeg
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Funny freeze frame, but his boss clearly didn't like him, his job seemed to bore him, and he had absolutely no social life.

But yeah it definitely wasn't waking up to live a better life, it was the messiah thing so that others could hopefully live a better life.

I do wish the studio didn't make them change the original idea to the battery idea. At least being farmed for a giant neural network of computational power doesn't fall apart as quickly as the battery thing.
 
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