Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen

Something we ignore here is that to preserve "artistic intent" we all need to make sure our displays are calibrated similar to how the artists had it. So, what you choose as your display color settings, gamma, tint, brightness, contrast etc already skews the "artistic intent", even before any in game settings or external shaders.

Thus, I feel that changing the look of the game so it's looks pleasing/correct to you is absolutely the way to go.

I mean I also calibrate my TV to get as close to a reference-grade monitor as possible as well. But I understand that the games industry is also much less standardized than the film industry on the production side of things.
 
So ...with Death Stranding 2 out tomorrow night do we know what the Ps5 Pro enhancements are yet? I've had a bad gut feeling its going to be something very minor even though this was THE game many people said they're buying the Pro for ...

Sony/Kojima haven't hinted it'll receive any special attention on Pro tho hence my concern

Yeah, nothing.

I expect higher resolution AT LEAST. The best thing would be GG upscaling that was made for Horizon games and has DLSS like quality, it's in the engine anyway but given comments from Kojima devs about PS5 I don't expect MUCH from them.
 
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Can't help but think they could've provided RT reflections on water etc. in the PS5 Pro quality mode/s in DS2, rather than just pushing resolution up. Doubling your frame time and not being able to muster anything interesting up beyond a res scale is lacklustre. There's shots in the DF video where some distant stuff looks to have noticeably low quality lods too, could they not even tweak the lod/draw-in distance?

$599 console overpriced to $699 and Sony can't even get a top PS Studios-published title to make meaningful use of their system.

If your quality mode is practically indistinguishable from your performance mode then you've misspent your frame time budget.
 
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I pretty much predicted that 1440p on base PS5 in one of my posts, haha. Original was running in 1800p in performance mode on PS5 and 4k native in quality mode in 60fps with some drops.
 
Ds2 is close we are gonna see soon enough how much yt compression killed the graphic of this game, FINALLY a game to try this fucking ps5 pro.

I saw some shit pics officially released by sony in 4k so i'm still skeptic.
pro is not getting nearly enough use and love. Feels almost like sony abandoned it.
That's my problem with these mid gen refreshes
Tell me about it... i bought this shit, played dragon age on it and thats it. Collecting dust since i moved back to PC gaming.
lol yeah, DS2 will be the first new game i will be playing on the PS5 since FF7 came out last year. i guess Astro bot too but i only played it for a few hours trading controllers with my kids.

i still go back to it to try HFW, Spiderman 2, and Ratchet every now and then, but then again, i used to do that with the base PS5 too. Those games look stunning and sometimes when im in the mood, i just boot up those games and fly to my favorite areas just to appreciate the fidelity.

i know FeelsLikeIm42 thinks its a waste of money, but i like that they added new graphics enhancements to both HFW and Spiderman 2. Yes, they are subtle, but PS4 to ps4 pro was basically a resolution upgrade so its nice to get some graphics enhancements this time around. I am excited to see what Kojipro adds to the Pro version. Even if the game lacks RTGI or nanite, i think the game has the potential to impress on the Pro if they add those same visual upgrades to HFW's Pro version. I typically only played the native 4k version of HFW so it was kinda insane to see the performance mode on the Pro look even better.


Looks like DS2 is yet another game that isn't seeing much improvement on PS5 Pro:


There are only minor differences in terms of image quality and graphics settings between the two machines, with the performance mode on PS5 using a 1440p internal resolution and slightly higher than this on PS5 Pro. On the base PS5, fine details often exhibit extra pixel break-up, while the Pro produces slightly cleaner results. You'll also spot some additional distant detail on PS5 Pro, for a more refined presentation overall.


I'm really starting to feel like Sony has more-or-less abandoned this hardware.
 
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Looks like DS2 is yet another game that isn't seeing much improvement on PS5 Pro:





I'm really starting to feel like Sony has more-or-less abandoned this hardware.
Me too what a fucking joke their treatment of their most hard-core user base is. Seriously fuck them. If Sony can't rise to the occasion for a game like DS2 then we're screwed.

My good friend just bought the Pro for this game and GT6. He's going to be so pissed when he realizes the lack of meaningful upgrades for this game.
 
Me too what a fucking joke their treatment of their most hard-core user base is. Seriously fuck them. If Sony can't rise to the occasion for a game like DS2 then we're screwed.

My good friend just bought the Pro for this game and GT6. He's going to be so pissed when he realizes the lack of meaningful upgrades for this game.

Performance mode is still visibly better but yeah, differences aren't great.
 

1440p 60 fps like most other sony exclusives this gen. Called it the moment i realized that the graphics leap wasnt generational. Watch GoT and Intergallactic be the same.

Imagine literally not using half of the GPU or its ray tracing or mesh shader features just to appease some 60 fps nutjobs and then have the gal to complain that the jump from PS4 to PC wasnt large enough.
 
1440p 60 fps like most other sony exclusives this gen. Called it the moment i realized that the graphics leap wasnt generational. Watch GoT and Intergallactic be the same.

Imagine literally not using half of the GPU or its ray tracing or mesh shader features just to appease some 60 fps nutjobs and then have the gal to complain that the jump from PS4 to PC wasnt large enough.

I don't think 60fps is the issue here. We have games with mesh shaders and/or RTGI running in 60fps.

I love how Sony devs (and partners like Kojima) have access to Mesh shaders/primitive shaders and hardware accelerated RT for 5 years now and they just fucking don't use it (outside of Insomniac and PD).
 
So the game doesn't even have a quality mode at 40-60 frames?

Just a bit better performance mode?

What are the improvement in quzlity mode for pro?

What a fucking joke this console is...

John words about quality mode on Pro vs. Performance is that there is not much difference and it's not worth using.
 
This game exposes the limits of rasterization. The game isn't even ugly but the screen space shadows they are using simply cannot cover everything (see Sam's finer details in gameplay), the reflections are sometimes noisy since it's SSR mixed with some sort of fallback and the geometry density cannot stay consistent through the game, as it's lacking virtual geometry. This is a last gen videogame at its finest.
 
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I don't think 60fps is the issue here. We have games with mesh shaders and/or RTGI running in 60fps.

I love how Sony devs (and partners like Kojima) have access to Mesh shaders/primitive shaders and hardware accelerated RT for 5 years now and they just fucking don't use it (outside of Insomniac and PD).
60 fps isnt the issue. 1440p 60 fps is the issue.

Most other games drop to 864p with dynamic res going all the way down to 720p at times. Sony games stay around 1440p.
 
So the game doesn't even have a quality mode at 40-60 frames?

Just a bit better performance mode?

What are the improvement in quzlity mode for pro?

What a fucking joke this console is...
there is a quality mode on both consoles. likely native 4k.

Pro has better draw distance. thats it.
 
1440p 60 fps like most other sony exclusives this gen. Called it the moment i realized that the graphics leap wasnt generational. Watch GoT and Intergallactic be the same.

Imagine literally not using half of the GPU or its ray tracing or mesh shader features just to appease some 60 fps nutjobs and then have the gal to complain that the jump from PS4 to PC wasnt large enough.
I mean... it looks way better than the first game.
And got the best ever character rendering we've ever seen.

Was kojima to make realistic people look more realistic lol?
He made what he wanted to make. If he wanted to make this looking like ue5 cgi cutscene, he would've.
Thank god they spent all those years making the game and not the tech alone
 
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This game exposes the limits of rasterization. The game isn't even ugly but the screen space shadows they are using simply cannot cover everything (see Sam's finer details in gameplay), the reflections are sometimes noisy since it's SSR mixed with some sort of fallback and the geometry density cannot stay consistent through the game, as it's lacking virtual geometry. This is a last gen videogame at its finest.
yep. this is a good exercise for people like kevboard who despise realtime GI to compare against last gen baking and SSR tech over RT and/or software GI and reflections.

You do get a higher resolution because well, the GPU isnt really being utilized here, which makes the 60 fps experience slightly better because you arent playing sub 1080p 60 fps modes but it comes at the expense of the game looking last gen even on a $700 console.

I have now paid almost a $1000 on next gen consoles and i would personally want to see next gen tech being used. But kevboard and his crew would like to have us stuck in the past jerking off to last gen games instead.
 
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60 fps isnt the issue. 1440p 60 fps is the issue.

Most other games drop to 864p with dynamic res going all the way down to 720p at times. Sony games stay around 1440p.
Ha even a rtx2070 equivalent gpu can achieve 1440p 60 fps on a 2025 "triple A" title? My dude considering there are pc games in 2019 push hardware harder than this thing...
 
This game exposes the limits of rasterization. The game isn't even ugly but the screen space shadows they are using simply cannot cover everything (see Sam's finer details in gameplay), the reflections are sometimes noisy since it's SSR mixed with some sort of fallback and the geometry density cannot stay consistent through the game, as it's lacking virtual geometry. This is a last gen videogame at its finest.
In an perfect world i would gift you a month of gold to post this exact post in all the ds2 topics just to read the absolute shitstorm from fanboys :lollipop_squinting:

But this is a world where bella ramsey get acting jobs so...
 
1440p counts upscaled to 4K, 60 FPS locked. This game isn't using the hardware for shit.
Well, everyone was giving e-blowjobs to Kojima long before the game first appearance, just because it's him and "because Decima".

I've never found Horizon to be that impressive; it looks really good, but both games show their cross-gen (read: old) origins.

DS2 seems to have improved a lot for characters (which in DS1 aren't that impressive anymore, today), not so much for the rest?

Either way, cutscenes are going to look exceptionally good. But it's no UE5.

I can't wait to see it for myself (even though I'd prefer playing it on pc...).
 
In DF's death stranding 2 video when he shows parts of the into cutscenes, it looked amazing on my TV with HDR. The characters look bonker in this. Visual fidelity takes a huge hit during gameplay though it seems.

I wish I could get excited with the gameplay though although many reviews point out they added more MGS like action and less Purolator.
 
At this rate if GTA6 doesn't get a worthwhile ps5 pro patch I brought this machine for nothing.
You guys learn nothing. These pro machines are almost useless, it was the same with PS4 pro. You just get slightly better visuals/performance, it's definitely not worth the price. Sony doesn't care about Pro users, they're a minority anyway.
 
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Well, everyone was giving e-blowjobs to Kojima long before the game first appearance, just because it's him and "because Decima".

I've never found Horizon to be that impressive; it looks really good, but both games show their cross-gen (read: old) origins.

DS2 seems to have improved a lot for characters (which in DS1 aren't that impressive anymore, today), not so much for the rest?

Either way, cutscenes are going to look exceptionally good. But it's no UE5.

I can't wait to see it for myself (even though I'd prefer playing it on pc...).
The character renderings could be attributed to improvements in the motion capture equipment rather than the engine, which seems to be the case. The LOD issues Decima had seem to have been mostly mitigated, but other than that not much.
 
Told you baboons, DS2 doesn't look all that outside of cutscenes. It doesn't look much better in gameplay than so many cross gen games we've seen. Stop smelling Kojima farts and smell the coffee.
 
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Told you baboons, DS2 doesn't look all that outside of cutscenes. It doesn't look much better in gameplay than so many cross gen games we've seen. Stop smelling Kojima farts and smell the coffee.

what-huh.gif
 
I would like to take a moment to point out some hilarious inconsistences in John's DS2 review:

- Right at the start of the video, he bemoans this generation's cross gen focus.
- Literally a minute later, compares DS2 to HFW and says its not as big of a leap as HFW was to HZD. HFW was cross gen...
- Compares rock detail to Nanite.
- ten minutes later, points out how details are low res for objects not directly in front of you, and doesnt look great. i mean isnt the entire point of nanite is to handle LODs more gracefully? anyone can push detail right in front of you.

Overall, its a good review pointing out the strengths and weaknesses of this game, but as always he refuses to compare these games to other games this gen that have produced far better visuals choosing instead to compare it to the previous entry. Thats fine for a review, but an incomplete assessment of the game's technical shortcomings.
 
I would like to take a moment to point out some hilarious inconsistences in John's DS2 review:

- Right at the start of the video, he bemoans this generation's cross gen focus.
- Literally a minute later, compares DS2 to HFW and says its not as big of a leap as HFW was to HZD. HFW was cross gen...
- Compares rock detail to Nanite.
- ten minutes later, points out how details are low res for objects not directly in front of you, and doesnt look great. i mean isnt the entire point of nanite is to handle LODs more gracefully? anyone can push detail right in front of you.

Overall, its a good review pointing out the strengths and weaknesses of this game, but as always he refuses to compare these games to other games this gen that have produced far better visuals choosing instead to compare it to the previous entry. Thats fine for a review, but an incomplete assessment of the game's technical shortcomings.
Just means the graphics are good now and were already good on ps4.
There is barely anything to talk about because everything looks good nowadays....

For me, graphics of the year so far are AC SHADOWS ps5 pro 40fps mode. But DS2 will probably beat it no sweat
 
Just means the graphics are good now and were already good on ps4.
There is barely anything to talk about because everything looks good nowadays....

For me, graphics of the year so far are AC SHADOWS ps5 pro 40fps mode. But DS2 will probably beat it no sweat

You're really in the graphical fidelity thread trying to claim that PS4 graphics are good enough?
 
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You guys learn nothing. These pro machines are almost useless, it was the same with PS4 pro. You just get slightly better visuals/performance, it's definitely not worth the price. Sony doesn't care about Pro users, they're a minority anyway.
PS4 Pro was fantastic. You get at a minimum a 2x increase in pixels plus checkerboarding which allowed them to give us a 4k image on a 4k screen. It was absolutely mind blowing going from 1080p to 4k at the time.

The 45% gpu increase here leaves them very little room to do anything other than increase some settings graphically. Actually only around 10-20% sometimes because PSSR is so goddamn expensive.

That said, you are basically getting quality mode in 60 fps (kind of weird for him to not give any pixel counts but we can wait for brazilpixel) which is what cerny promised on the pro. you are not sacrificing visuals for framerate.
 
Just means the graphics are good now and were already good on ps4.
There is barely anything to talk about because everything looks good nowadays....

For me, graphics of the year so far are AC SHADOWS ps5 pro 40fps mode. But DS2 will probably beat it no sweat
he uses good enough several times, and it irked me. Just like your post will irk a bunch of thread regulars here.

I dont think good enough is the way to go. As a first party game (and while he might not be a first party dev, this is a first party game), you have an obligation to push the console's tech because third parties with their mandates typically dont. So just being good enough is not good enough.
 
Just means the graphics are good now and were already good on ps4.
There is barely anything to talk about because everything looks good nowadays....

For me, graphics of the year so far are AC SHADOWS ps5 pro 40fps mode. But DS2 will probably beat it no sweat
That's the thing, the graphics are good but there is no usage here whatsoever of any modern rendering paradigm. It's like looking at the culmination of all those old techniques when art'd by a competent team but... That's that.
 
You guys learn nothing. These pro machines are almost useless, it was the same with PS4 pro. You just get slightly better visuals/performance, it's definitely not worth the price. Sony doesn't care about Pro users, they're a minority anyway.
PS4 Pro was fantastic. You get at a minimum a 2x increase in pixels plus checkerboarding which allowed them to give us a 4k image on a 4k screen. It was absolutely mind blowing going from 1080p to 4k at the time.

The 45% gpu increase here leaves them very little room to do anything other than increase some settings graphically. Actually only around 10-20% sometimes because PSSR is so goddamn expensive.

That said, you are basically getting quality mode in 60 fps (kind of weird for him to not give any pixel counts but we can wait for brazilpixel) which is what cerny promised on the pro. you are not sacrificing visuals for framerate.
We need console-SLI support.

Remember GT5-6 and Forza Motorsport on 360?

Both supported triple screen setup by simply connecting the 3 consoles in a local network.

Let us buy two consoles and link them up to have the best of both worlds (those setup scaled perfectly, you got the game running at 3x its res while keeping the framerate to 60).

I'd buy two consoles in a heartbeat. And they don't even have to compromize for a single console: just keep the quality mode and the subpar performance mode. And let us scale up.

That would be "pro enhanced".
 
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That's the thing, the graphics are good but there is no usage here whatsoever of any modern rendering paradigm. It's like looking at the culmination of all those old techniques when art'd by a competent team but... That's that.
Yeah, i mean its clear from his capture that the game looks really good. But its also clear that it wouldve looked even better had they used the GPU for more than just rendering pixels. Lack of RT, mesh shaders, and CPU related physics effects despite getting a generational boost in CPU power is kinda lame.

At least they have gone all in on volumetric effects which ive always been a big fan of, but there is so much more they couldve done here. Improve foliage quality, rock quality, hero lighting on characters during gameplay, better looking rain and sandstorm effects, etc Really not sure why they would target such high resolutions.
 
That's the thing, the graphics are good but there is no usage here whatsoever of any modern rendering paradigm. It's like looking at the culmination of all those old techniques when art'd by a competent team but... That's that.
that's because lack of exclusives.
Yes, DS2 is exclusive but it's using decima. A tech made for ps4.... because studio that made this engine have not yet made a ps5 game... because every game takes 17 years to make.
he uses good enough several times, and it irked me. Just like your post will irk a bunch of thread regulars here.

I dont think good enough is the way to go. As a first party game (and while he might not be a first party dev, this is a first party game), you have an obligation to push the console's tech because third parties with their mandates typically dont. So just being good enough is not good enough.
good enough is perfect... Why reinvent the graphics wheel with every new game?
Do we really need games looking better than uc4? because this looks better than uc4 already (maybe... no... a bit?)
If all they can do is take Decima and spend all the time on USING the tools that exist and making a game? perfect.
The game still took almost 6 years to make. It's a failure in my opinion under that front.
It's using the same tech, adjusted to more ps5 power and still took 6 years. Without r&d and reinventing graphics we always blame for long dev times.
So either Kojima stalled or he really put a lot of other stuff in this game.

Spending 2 more years to ultramodernize the graphics etc is a fools errand.
Slimy, I love you but you've gotten really obsessive in last year or two. You were always more positive.
Now you became very demanding and impossible to impress. maybe it's time for break?
I know you feel obligated to be THE GUY in this thread or on gaf, to push graphics but I think you are loosing the plot.

I actually don't want all games looking like ue5 renders... even if it's objectively way better looking.
Game slike og re4, remake re4, ff16, death stranding, horizon etc etc - have a distinc visual and technical feel. These still feel like games.
We are going to loose that soon. I replayed og re4 and it's so genius how well they use the hardware for most primitive tricks lol. It adds another layer of appreciation....

THAT SAID - I WOULDNT MIND 40FPS MODE WITH THAT SWEET AC SHADOWS RTGI hoooooly that fucking game.
SORRY I HAVE TO POST AC SHOTS ITS SO GOOD LOOKING. Not a bad game too. So yes. I am very eager to see if DS2 impresses me even a bit like ac shadows graphically
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that's because lack of exclusives.
Yes, DS2 is exclusive but it's using decima. A tech made for ps4.... because studio that made this engine have not yet made a ps5 game... because every game takes 17 years to make.

good enough is perfect... Why reinvent the graphics wheel with every new game?
Do we really need games looking better than uc4? because this looks better than uc4 already (maybe... no... a bit?)
If all they can do is take Decima and spend all the time on USING the tools that exist and making a game? perfect.
The game still took almost 6 years to make. It's a failure in my opinion under that front.
It's using the same tech, adjusted to more ps5 power and still took 6 years. Without r&d and reinventing graphics we always blame for long dev times.
So either Kojima stalled or he really put a lot of other stuff in this game.

Spending 2 more years to ultramodernize the graphics etc is a fools errand.
Slimy, I love you but you've gotten really obsessive in last year or two. You were always more positive.
Now you became very demanding and impossible to impress. maybe it's time for break?
I know you feel obligated to be THE GUY in this thread or on gaf, to push graphics but I think you are loosing the plot.

I actually don't want all games looking like ue5 renders... even if it's objectively way better looking.
Game slike og re4, remake re4, ff16, death stranding, horizon etc etc - have a distinc visual and technical feel. These still feel like games.
We are going to loose that soon. I replayed og re4 and it's so genius how well they use the hardware for most primitive tricks lol. It adds another layer of appreciation....

THAT SAID - I WOULDNT MIND 40FPS MODE WITH THAT SWEET AC SHADOWS RTGI hoooooly that fucking game.
SORRY I HAVE TO POST AC SHOTS ITS SO GOOD LOOKING. Not a bad game too. So yes. I am very eager to see if DS2 impresses me even a bit like ac shadows graphically
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Turn off RTGI and RT reflections, and those AC screens dont look nearly as impressive. And thats the whole point, RT elevated that game from being good enough to, and im going to quote your own words, holy fucking shit that game!

I will always praise good looking game. I have zero issues praising stuff like FF16, Spiderman 2, Kingdom Come 2, and other games that dont push RT or mesh shaders. But yes, i do think we have to hold big AAA studios that take 6 years to a higher standard. You can do both, praise a game for its successes and criticize it for its shortcomings. Especially when those shortcomings should never have occurred due to them spending 6 years making this game without bothering to upgrade the engine.

AC Shadows, Avatar, Wukong, and virtually every stunning looking game this gen took the same amount of time. And yet the managed to bring next gen elements to it. KojiPro had access to GG engineers so essentially two teams of graphics programmers and chose to make it around the limitations of last gen tech. That is inexcusable to me because other devs have shown the opposite.
 
Turn off RTGI and RT reflections, and those AC screens dont look nearly as impressive. And thats the whole point, RT elevated that game from being good enough to, and im going to quote your own words, holy fucking shit that game!

I will always praise good looking game. I have zero issues praising stuff like FF16, Spiderman 2, Kingdom Come 2, and other games that dont push RT or mesh shaders. But yes, i do think we have to hold big AAA studios that take 6 years to a higher standard. You can do both, praise a game for its successes and criticize it for its shortcomings. Especially when those shortcomings should never have occurred due to them spending 6 years making this game without bothering to upgrade the engine.

AC Shadows, Avatar, Wukong, and virtually every stunning looking game this gen took the same amount of time. And yet the managed to bring next gen elements to it. KojiPro had access to GG engineers so essentially two teams of graphics programmers and chose to make it around the limitations of last gen tech. That is inexcusable to me because other devs have shown the opposite.
ac shadows got bad fallback with no rt.
Decima always looked good and they added more probes this time around... that's like... almost rt... almost
 
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