Charlie Kirk assassinated at Utah campus event

Jsisto said:
Charlie Kirk was a MAJOR political figure and had significant influence. While it's hard to keep track nowadays as culture is so fragmented, we're not talking about some random unknown conservative influencer. He ran one of the most influential conservative political groups in the country.
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Fair enough. I should have done more research before I made comment. I'm not from the US but I was somewhat aware of him, have seen him pop up on YouTube a few times. Didn't think he was as significant as you are alluding to.

But still, feels particularly senseless.
 
Jsisto said:
Charlie Kirk was a MAJOR political figure and had significant influence. While it's hard to keep track nowadays as culture is so fragmented, we're not talking about some random unknown conservative influencer. He ran one of the most influential conservative political groups in the country.
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He was literally parodied on South Park

Dude was very well known even outside political circles
 
The loony left playbook. Resort to the name calling and ad hominem attacks, then intimidation and when that doesn't work, violence.

Regardless of your political views, having open debate about things is free speech at its finest and he was murdered for it, because the cowards didn't like what he had to say.
 
This is just wildly horrible and I think it's a true testament to how divided this country actually is, looking at all the stuff I've read across social media.

I wasn't a fan of him, I must say. Much of what he said I usually disagreed with, but he was willing to debate anyone freely and didn't possess any fear about it, even if he did swing a bit too malicious in some ways(imo). He was usually quite articulate as well.

No person should meet their end this way, especially a father. Those girls have no father anymore and I truly hope they weren't there. The video I saw was nightmarish.

Whoever the shooter was, if it's to be believed they were indeed 200 yards away, that's not an amateur imo. Hopefully he is caught(or maybe they have him, hard to say)
 
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Thanati said:
Well, that's a load of nonsense right there.

Why is it that only in America our "freedom"is defended in violence?
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They still teach history in schools? Do you know that the United States won it's independence by fighting a war of rebellion against the British Empire?

Furthermore do you know that the freedom of the slaves was won by fighting the American Civil War which is actually the bloodiest war the US ever fought with more casualties than even the US participation in World War II?
 
Welp, hope it is not the torch that finally lights up the powderkeg, just waiting for the US to blow up. So much hatred on all sides, usually doesn't go well, according to history.

Literarly, it seems everyone in the US hate each other, with a severe passion, over political blocks, it is nuts to read the responses in this thread. It reads like a prior to WW1 communicete'.
 
hououinkyouma00 said:
Maybe open a world history book once in awhile.

Nobody is saying it's a good thing, but freedom has always been paid for in blood.
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As I mentioned, I have studied history and unfortunately been caught up in violence in the past (IRA bombings and survived the Manchester IRA bombing).

Now, what freedom is being so curtailed that little children are senselessly killed by gun violence. I would like you to point out exactly how keeping the 2nd amendment helps their freedom.

Also, how does his death help his "cause"?

And, by now, we should have outgrown the need to engage in violence to defend one's "Freedom" because, what "freedom" is being taken away from us, exactly?
 
Neff said:
You're not wrong, but as someone who historically appreciates left values, and will always judge people based on individual humanitarian merit regardless of identity, ideology or culture, I really can't say I see much good coming from the left these days. It's become a poisonous, hostile movement which now operates at the behest of the self rather than the selfless, and frequently harbours genuinely malicious intent despite endless self-righteous rhetoric.
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you can literally copy paste your post and replace left with right and you'd have just as many arguments for it.
it's not left vs right. it's extremists vs moderates. moderates in western nations largely have the same values, otherwise every election would have the same results wouldn't it? meanwhile left wing extremists hate "liberals" more than the moderate right does. the word liberal of course being devoid of any meaning these days as well... because if you're not liberal, that means you're authoritarian... so like a communist would be... because Communists aren't liberals, I think some need to be reminded of that fact. a Communist is just as much a Liberal as a Nazi is.

also what an American calls left, some Europeans would call right... what some Europeans call left, some Americans would call right. it's all nonsensical buzzword slinging and tribalism. there's a German political party, the BSW, that would literally be called right wing by many in the US. Meanwhile in actuality it's a left wing conservative party.
A more extreme example would be, if the Chinese communist party would exist in the US, they would be called far right extremists... say hello to horseshoe theory...

I think people don't even know what left and right means anymore, especially when it comes to American politics due to the 2 party system over there leading to all sorts of completely opposite views being bundled into a single party, and then there's some semi-arbitrary line drawn where the other party starts...
 
Donald mac Ronald said:
The loony left playbook. Resort to the name calling and ad hominem attacks, then intimidation and when that doesn't work, violence.

Regardless of your political views, having open debate about things is free speech at its finest and he was murdered for it, because the cowards didn't like what he had to say.
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I agree with everything but that "loony left" shit. there are a lot of reasonable people around the world we make the mistake of tossing into categories, which naturally leads to simplification/marginalization. Kirk was killed because of that kinda shit.
 
Unknown Soldier said:
They still teach history in schools? Do you know that the United States won it's independence by fighting a war of rebellion against the British Empire?

Furthermore do you know that the freedom of the slaves was won by fighting the American Civil War which is actually the bloodiest war the US ever fought with more casualties than even the US participation in World War II?
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Do you know that was 250 years ago?
Did you also know the civil war ended in 1865.

Did you know schoolkids were critically injured in a Colorado High school a few hours ago through gun violence?
 
Thanati said:
As I mentioned, I have studied history and unfortunately been caught up in violence in the past (IRA bombings and survived the Manchester IRA bombing).

Now, what freedom is being so curtailed that little children are senselessly killed by gun violence. I would like you to point out exactly how keeping the 2nd amendment helps their freedom.

Also, how does his death help his "cause"?

And, by now, we should have outgrown the need to engage in violence to defend one's "Freedom" because, what "freedom" is being taken away from us, exactly?
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The 2nd amendment prevents what is happening right now in the UK and EU for starters
 
And people ask me why I don't get out and do much. Here in the States when we go out to grocery shop, praise our religion, events, etc, we literally have to take precautions. So looking for emergency exits at places, how to handle a firearm, and knowing where to run and hide is the norm here.

It shouldn't be like this at all. When my son's mom moved to Hawaii to live there after court and custody reasons, I was kinda upset and felt betrayed but ultimately knew that I wouldn't have to worry about him dealing with the problems that we do in the mainland.

I didn't agree with Kirk on most things, but he definitely didn't deserve this. Especially not in front of his family and other spectators.
 
Moridianae said:
This is just wildly horrible and I think it's a true testament to how divided this country actually is, looking at all the stuff I've read across social media.

I wasn't a fan of him, I must say. Much of what he said I usually disagreed with, but he was willing to debate anyone freely and didn't possess any fear about it, even if he did swing a bit too malicious in some ways(imo). He was usually quite articulate as well.

No person should meet their end this way, especially a father. Those girls have no father anymore and I truly hope they weren't there. The video I saw was nightmarish.

Whoever the shooter was, if it's to be believed they were indeed 200 yards away, that's not an amateur imo. Hopefully he is caught(or maybe they have him, hard to say)
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What i'm afraid of is if this sets a dangerous precedent going forward. It just feel like because of how trible-istic the extreme sides are i wouldn't be surprised at retaliation.

But it also speaks to how unsettling politics has become for both sides of the aisle and that people will resort to physical violence , we've seen enough of cases of the george floyd riots, Jan 6 etc. But this is just whole new level of insanity.
 
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Unknown Soldier said:
The 2nd amendment prevents what is happening right now in the UK and EU for starters
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One other thing.

Gun related deaths in 2024 was 30,100 (including 69 school children).
Gun related deaths in 2023 was 46,728 (including 30 school children)

How exactly did the 2nd amendment help here? I'm genuinely curious
 
ResilientBanana said:
Extreme Right-Wings storm the capital and try to kill people but couldn't find them, extreme Left-Wings assassinate a republican speaker. You're not a good guy if you lean too far either way. Violence is violence and at this point all the worlds gone mad.
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Eh they didn't storm it or try to kill people there, do you get all of your info from mainstream slop?

Your point is still very valid though.
 
Donald mac Ronald said:
The loony left playbook. Resort to the name calling and ad hominem attacks, then intimidation and when that doesn't work, violence.

Regardless of your political views, having open debate about things is free speech at its finest and he was murdered for it, because the cowards didn't like what he had to say.
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And they say they are the party of love and tolerance.
 
simpatico said:
I asked my libertarian buddy just last weekend something. "When the mob is going door to door on your street, and you're hiding in the basement with your kids, will you whisper: at least we didn't use authoritarian means to prevent this" I wonder if our talk would go differently after this.
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Stupid take.
 
Wimbledon said:
What i'm afraid of is if this sets a dangerous precedent going forward. It just feel like because of how trible-istic the extreme sides are i wouldn't be surprised at retaliation.

But it also speaks to how unsettling politics has become for both sides of the aisle and that people will resort to physical violence , we've seen enough of cases of the george floyd riots, Jan 6 etc. But this is just whole new level of insanity.
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Retaliation is a fear, but trepidation is another. How brave can one be, on *any* side(left or right) of a debate, really, anymore?

Maybe their views are polarizing, starkly divisive as most tend to be these days on both sides, both in politics or generalized discussions on any myriad of topics.

It becomes a question of how passionate are you willing to be, how much will you tread lightly or swallow your take on your views when someone could take you down in a second for them?

Strip your wife of a husband, children of a father in an instant from 2(or more) football fields away because they didn't like your stance.
 
Moridianae said:
Strip your wife of a husband, children of a father in an instant from 2(or more) football fields away because they didn't like your stance.
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www.ctvnews.ca

Here’s a look at the long history of U.S. political shootings

Right-wing activist Charlie Kirk was fatally shot at a university in Utah on Wednesday, becoming the latest in a long string of victims of U.S. political violence.
www.ctvnews.ca www.ctvnews.ca

There's not a single excusable one. "didn't like your stance" is basically the foundation of every political shootings.
 
Caught a ban from another site because I said I was a life long democrat and said we shouldn't be acting this way by celebrating. Nothing good can come from it. So that's another site to avoid I guess.
 
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