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[simpatico]

I'm critiquing the mainstream American right from the right. Not blue-red stuff. They leave a little too much up to chance for my tastes. Days like today just highlight how high the stakes really are. My son is a big Charlie Kirk fan. I thought he was a good man, if a little politically mild for my tastes.

Despite living here, I've always viewed American politics from a slightly outsider perspective. My parents were immigrants from a country saw an ugly collapse, and I got a lot of "it can happen anywhere! it can happen tomorrow!" Around the dinner table when I was a kid. I don't have nearly as much stake as most of the American posters here, and I've got somewhere I can always bail to if things get too crazy. But I do feel bad for the locals here. I think they're getting a raw deal.

 

[JohnnyPhats]

Because we feel like discussing the event.

Hey, there's a novel idea.

 

[ProtoByte]

That's not what I said.

I just wanted to confirm that this was the same guy who advocated a few people being killed as long as the 2nd amendment was safe.

Advocated? No.

Every policy or legal right has trade offs. 2A is no different. Pointing out that Charlie was shot while arguing in favour of 2A is a cheap attempt at grasping at irony. What's more ironic is that someone from the wing of people who want "gun control" shot him in part for not wanting "gun control".

 

[GudOlRub]

As an outsider this is absurd, hilarious and tragic all at the same time.

Feel for the kid who basically won't even get to know his father.

 

[MayauMiao]

Ethan is a father and probably felt heartbroken knowing Charlie also has kids.

 

[RedC]

See, the UK dystopian police should be after these kind of people and not the other way around.

Serious question for anyone that knows : in America, are these sites monitored by any kind of government agencies ? What about blue sky ? Surely cheering on someone's death has got to have some kind of repecursion ?

Free speech is free speech in America.

The government can't do anything about somebody cheering on someone's death.

 

[Thanati]

Because you didn't understand that 70% of those deaths are suicide

80% of the remainder are due to gang violence

A small number are accidental

After you remove all of those, then and only then do you have an actual number of violent gun related acts including the assassination of Charlie Kirk

And what you don't understand is that having access to guns so readily is a contributing factor. I mean, you can see this, right?

Are Americans more suicidal by nature than other, civilized countries? Or is it because we have so easy access to guns and limited access to health and education?

Number of gun-related deaths in Japan for 2024 - 10
UK - 22
France - 0.23 per 100,000

School mass shootings in the US - There were at least 83 incidents in 2024, but 2022 was one of the deadliest years, with 47 fatalities

Why is it that in this country, the moment anyone mentions things such as sensible gun control, the populace goes crazy and says, "no way! You can't take my guns".

Why do people not do the same thing about education or healthcare, for example?

What "freedom" is being taken from us that we have to defend it with violence? Last I looked, we could go anywhere and do anything we wanted. So?

 

[Kacho]

Ethan is a father and probably felt heartbroken knowing Charlie also has kids.

My read was more how long until some pro-Palestine nutjob targets him when he's in public if this is where we're headed.

Which is exactly how I would feel too if I was in his shoes, or any politician/political commentator.

 

[Thanati]

Advocated? No.

Every policy or legal right has trade offs. 2A is no different. Pointing out that Charlie was shot while arguing in favour of 2A is a cheap attempt at grasping at irony. What's more ironic is that someone from the wing of people who want "gun control" shot him in part for not wanting "gun control".

Interesting. You know for a fact who the shooter was, then? When nobody actually know who it was at the moment.

 

[Senua]

As an outsider this is absurd, hilarious and tragic all at the same time.

Feel for the kid who basically won't even get to know his father.

How is this hilarious?

 

[RedC]

Advocated? No.

Every policy or legal right has trade offs. 2A is no different. Pointing out that Charlie was shot while arguing in favour of 2A is a cheap attempt at grasping at irony. What's more ironic is that someone from the wing of people who want "gun control" shot him in part for not wanting "gun control".

You're filling in the blanks without having any information to confirm it yet.

You're likely right, but not definitively right until then.

 

[Singular7]

Free speech is free speech in America.

The government can't do anything about somebody cheering on someone's death.

I didn't really watch much Charlie Kirk, but just having caught up, this was a real man, a real father, a good person in a general sense.

The idea of freedom of speech means that someone can say he deserved it. The upstanding good man can be mocked. That is freedom of speech.

Calling vaccines a scam is freedom of speech. Calling people who are skeptical of big pharma "loons" is freedom of speech.

They are terrible evil psychotic low IQ people to mock a good man and father... but I'll defend their right to say it.

 

[Lokaum D+]

Ethan is a father and probably felt heartbroken knowing Charlie also has kids.

100%, the moment i saw the video i got sick and looked to my daughter, dude didn't deserve to go like this, i cant even imagine the amount of question his kids are asking to their mom about daddy not coming home, its just too sad.

 

[calico]

As an outsider this is absurd, hilarious and tragic all at the same time.

Feel for the kid who basically won't even get to know his father.

Which part is 'hilarious' to you?

 

[OLED_Gamer]

Apparently so. Quite ironic.

Gruesome footage. America is a mess.

America will always be a mess so long as there are only two real political parties, easy access to weapons of mass murder, and the continued decline of educational quality and employment opportunities for the masses.

Not the biggest fan of Kisin, but I felt what he is getting at here especially about some invisible line being crossed.

Ironically, that line was also crossed with the Capitol (Jan 6th) invasion.

Because you didn't understand that 70% of those deaths are suicide

80% of the remainder are due to gang violence

A small number are accidental

After you remove all of those, then and only then do you have an actual number of violent gun related acts including the assassination of Charlie Kirk

The problem is the impacts of the remainders. One school shooting is one too many.

 

[rm082e]

Society is dangerously fractured and it needs both parties to sit down and reflect on what has brought us here.

But we know that's not going to happen. It wouldn't happen even if another dozen famous political commentators from each side of the isle were shot over the next few weeks. No meaningful change is going to come about as a result of this event. It's just sad and shitty.

Actually, maybe people will be less likely to hold public speaking events outside in the future? That's about the only change I could see resulting from this.

 

[GudOlRub]

How is this hilarious?

Dude who said it's worth to have gun deaths in order to have the second amendement gets shot while having a discussion about gun violence?
Man lived and died by his words.
Can't help but laugh at the irony of it all.

 

[RedC]

I didn't really watch much Charlie Kirk, but just having caught up, this was a real man, a real father, a good person in a general sense.

The idea of freedom of speech means that someone can say he deserved it. The upstanding good man can be mocked. That is freedom of speech.

Calling vaccines a scam is freedom of speech. Calling people who are skeptical of big pharma as loons is freedom of speech.

They are terrible evil psychotic low IQ people to mock a good man and father... but I'll defend their right to say it.

I thought it was weird seeing people cheer when Osama Bin Laden was killed, but maybe that's just me.

Death is coming for us all, and whether I like, dislike, love, or hate somebody, all that negative emotion leaves me when they cease to exist.

 

[Thanati]

30,000? Pray tell what is "sensible" in your mind, or do you just not have any clue what the circumstances for most gun deaths are?

Follow Canadian or New Zealand gun laws for example.

In New Zealand, you can own a gun but;

To apply for a firearms licence, you must:

• be aged 16 or over
• not have had a firearms licence revoked in the last 5 years
• not be a disqualified person from having a firearms licence.

For your application to be successful, the police must find that:

• you are a fit and proper person to possess and use firearms
• you have secure storage at your home addresses to store firearms and ammunition
• no one that you live with has had a firearms licence revoked, been disqualified from having a firearms licence, or been found not fit and proper to have and use firearms has access to your firearms and ammunition.

So they make sure you are mentally sound to own a gun in the first place.

A lot of people here say that the shooter was "mentally unstable". So, why give them a gun in the first place?

I'm all for people having guns. It's in the constitution and I respect that document. But what's wrong with being sensible about it? Reagan, for example, supported the assault rifle ban enacted in 1994 . Also, did you know that 77% of Americans actually supported the ban.

 

[Porcile]

It's weird how there is so much violence and death depicted in movies and games, and how we're used to seeing it portrayed like that but when you see actual death it's genuinely feels just so bizarre and any humanity in that individual gone in an instant. Dude was talking then a millisecond later he's limp with blood spurting out his neck. It's so spooky in a way that is hard to explain.

I imagine this is going to be a pretty traumatic event. I don't even go into big crowds ever since that Korean crowd crush a few years back and all the videos I saw of that.

 

[Thanati]

If someone decides to murder someone else, they don't need a gun to do it.
Being able to protect yourself and your family and being able to do so with a firearm is a right in the US.
I'm English, we don't have that right here, we don't even have free speech.

What aspect of "Free speech" has been taken away in the UK?

I'll give you a hint, absolutely nothing at all.

 

[Senua]

Dude who said it's worth to have gun deaths in order to have the second amendement gets shot while having a discussion about gun violence?
Man lived and died by his words.
Can't help but laugh at the irony of it all.

Strange to laugh mate, shows a lack of empathy, especially after seeing the video. It was absolutely appalling

 

[Gexxy1]

And what you don't understand is that having access to guns so readily is a contributing factor. I mean, you can see this, right?

Are Americans more suicidal by nature than other, civilized countries? Or is it because we have so easy access to guns and limited access to health and education?

Number of gun-related deaths in Japan for 2024 - 10
UK - 22
France - 0.23 per 100,000

School mass shootings in the US - There were at least 83 incidents in 2024, but 2022 was one of the deadliest years, with 47 fatalities

Why is it that in this country, the moment anyone mentions things such as sensible gun control, the populace goes crazy and says, "no way! You can't take my guns".

Why do people not do the same thing about education or healthcare, for example?

What "freedom" is being taken from us that we have to defend it with violence? Last I looked, we could go anywhere and do anything we wanted. So?

Do you know what the gun death rate was in the UK prior to banning firearms, and how that compared to the USA? Also why do so many sub-groups with less firearms in the USA commit higher rates of murder than those who possess more firearms?

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Society is dangerously fractured and it needs both parties to sit down and reflect on what has brought us here.

And things are not going to improve anytime soon

Case in point what happened on the House Floor today when someone asked for a prayer for Charlie and they were shouted at by the other side

We have to stop this shit

 

[Scrawnton]

Ironically, that line was also crossed with the Capitol invasion.

No it wasn't. That is just an old delusional man pumping his chest to feel good about himself. This is a blatant political assassination and an entire segment of the left being exposed for the monster they really are and how blood is what they want. Let's be fucking real here, do you think lunatics on resetera have the balls to back up their rhetoric?

We definitely crossed the line now where the far left showed their real views of their fellow Americans and the people on the far right are taking note. I'll just fly my American flag and hope people leave me the fuck out of what's to come.

EDIT: correction. When you said "capital invasion" I thought you meant Trump deploying the national guard, but now I realize you meant Jan 6th (which is what it's typically referred to as which is why I was confused). Keeping my original post in tact because I think my views on what happened today still stand.

 

[DownLikeBCPowder]

Why is it that in this country, the moment anyone mentions things such as sensible gun control, the populace goes crazy and says, "no way! You can't take my guns".

What is "sensible" in your mind? Sounds a whole lot like "firearms for authorities only" from your posts, but I hate to put a word in your mouth, which is why I ask.

What "freedom" is being taken from us that we have to defend it with violence? Last I looked, we could go anywhere and do anything we wanted. So?

Just because it isn't happening today doesn't mean it won't tomorrow. This is naive.

 

[EviLore]

Knew the risks, did it anyway to keep a dialogue open. The lady scoffed at the idea that he was in danger, of course…

 

[Giallo Corsa]

Dude who said it's worth to have gun deaths in order to have the second amendement gets shot while having a discussion about gun violence?
Man lived and died by his words.
Can't help but laugh at the irony of it all.

I can't quite understand whether some people in here are just that insensitive, tone deaf or are just plain trolling...or all of the above.

Read the friggin' room, have some human decency, it shouldn't be that hard.

"Hilarious" the guy says...

 

[Thanati]

I still want you to define "sensible."
Do you know what the gun death rate was in the UK prior to banning firearms, and how that compared to the USA? Also why do so many sub-groups with less firearms in the USA commit higher rates of murder than those who possess more firearms?

I know that our gun-related deaths was far, far higher than what it is now.

And i defined what "sensible" meant.

We have sensible ways to own and drive a car, for example. Why not follow the same approach with guns?

 

[MayauMiao]

Dude who said it's worth to have gun deaths in order to have the second amendement gets shot while having a discussion about gun violence?
Man lived and died by his words.
Can't help but laugh at the irony of it all.

I'm not sure the irony here. This was a targeted assassination. It could be knife attack, or poison, bombs, as long as they can shut him up.

 

[Senua]

What aspect of "Free speech" has been taken away in the UK?

I'll give you a hint, absolutely nothing at all.

What about people getting arrested for tweets? It's especially bad in Scotland

 

[jason10mm]

It seems like CK had a huge following, does one of them do something crazy in response? Who knows but an escalation after this seems likely. This is not the end.

I think there is a near 100% chance of some sort of retaliation killing, probably of a rando person who isn't even involved with whatever cult ideology the shooter ends up being from (if any). There are a lot of nihilistic young folk and despondent old folk out there right now, on both sides, with basically no fucks to give and social media infamy awaiting them.

 

[Mr Moose]

What aspect of "Free speech" has been taken away in the UK?

I'll give you a hint, absolutely nothing at all.

You can be arrested if someone finds what you say offensive.

Dude who said it's worth to have gun deaths in order to have the second amendement gets shot while having a discussion about gun violence?
Man lived and died by his words.
Can't help but laugh at the irony of it all.

 

[RedC]

And things are not going to improve anytime soon

Case in point what happened on the House Floor today when someone asked for a prayer for Charlie and they were shouted at by the other side

We have to stop this shit

I agree, but we made it through the 60s and 70s, and I think people have forgotten how turbulent those decades were.

 

[Gexxy1]

Follow Canadian or New Zealand gun laws for example.

In New Zealand, you can own a gun but;

To apply for a firearms licence, you must:

• be aged 16 or over
• not have had a firearms licence revoked in the last 5 years
• not be a disqualified person from having a firearms licence.

For your application to be successful, the police must find that:

• you are a fit and proper person to possess and use firearms
• you have secure storage at your home addresses to store firearms and ammunition
• no one that you live with has had a firearms licence revoked, been disqualified from having a firearms licence, or been found not fit and proper to have and use firearms has access to your firearms and ammunition.

I mean I agree with most of these but you are very naive if you think this would cut gun death by 30,000 per year.

The only thing I'd caution is police/government deciding arbitrarily who is "proper and fit enough" to own a gun.

 

[pudel]

What aspect of "Free speech" has been taken away in the UK?

I'll give you a hint, absolutely nothing at all.

 

[Singular7]

Follow Canadian or New Zealand gun laws for example.

In New Zealand, you can own a gun but;

To apply for a firearms licence, you must:

• be aged 16 or over
• not have had a firearms licence revoked in the last 5 years
• not be a disqualified person from having a firearms licence.

For your application to be successful, the police must find that:

• you are a fit and proper person to possess and use firearms
• you have secure storage at your home addresses to store firearms and ammunition
• no one that you live with has had a firearms licence revoked, been disqualified from having a firearms licence, or been found not fit and proper to have and use firearms has access to your firearms and ammunition.

So they make sure you are mentally sound to own a gun in the first place.

A lot of people here say that the shooter was "mentally unstable". So, why give them a gun in the first place?

I'm all for people having guns. It's in the constitution and I respect that document. But what's wrong with being sensible about it? Reagan, for example, supported the assault rifle ban enacted in 1994 . Also, did you know that 77% of Americans actually supported the ban.

I follow you and respect the notion -- the problem is that when (not if) a nation goes bananas (has any nation not gone bananas?), there needs to be a significant opposition to their banana

The state "verifying" that people are mentally sound enough to own to the key thing that can oppose them is like a slaver making sure he can trust his slaves with the weapons to oppose him before giving it to them (hint: he won't)

2nd Amendment is one of the most high IQ concepts in world history.

Without the 2nd amendment: welcome to middle ages UK where the lord of the land can rape your wife legally

 

[Thanati]

What about people getting arrested for tweets? It's especially bad in Scotland

You mean the tweets that are hate-speech related?

Hate Crime and Public Order (Scotland) Act 2021:

This legislation introduced new protections for various characteristics, making it illegal to stir up hatred against these groups through threatening or abusive communication

Freedom of Expression Defence:
.
The law includes a provision that allows for freedom of expression, so the expression must be genuinely threatening or abusive, not merely offensive.

Police Interpretation:
Police determine if the legal test for causing fear and alarm is met by assessing if a reasonable person would perceive the communication as threatening or abusive, while also considering the context and intent of the post.

 

[Ursus Vindicant]

Because we feel like discussing the event.

I've lurked for for a long time. Never said anything. This week has just been too much. First Iryna, then I saw this news and couldn't believe it. This week honestly feels like a tipping point we won't come back from.

Im extremely grateful that we have somewhere rational and reasonable to process it all. Thank you.

 

[cyberheater]

What about people getting arrested for tweets? It's especially bad in Scotland

Two tier policing.

 

[Wimbledon]

I didn't really watch much Charlie Kirk, but just having caught up, this was a real man, a real father, a good person in a general sense.

The idea of freedom of speech means that someone can say he deserved it. The upstanding good man can be mocked. That is freedom of speech.

Calling vaccines a scam is freedom of speech. Calling people who are skeptical of big pharma as loons is freedom of speech.

They are terrible evil psychotic low IQ people to mock a good man and father... but I'll defend their right to say it.

Free speech is also a double edged sword. Had this convo a few weeks ago in regards to discernment and divisive influences.

Free speech doesn't mean free from criticism or consequence from the things you say or do. Trying to walk that line as a public figure is tough especially in the political sphere.

Obviously this situation is worst case scenario but i still think highlights that what you say and or do can get people on your side and against you.....or worst case want to kill you.

 

[Thanati]

I follow you and respect the notion -- the problem is that when (not if) a nation goes bananas, there needs to be a significant opposition to their banana

The state "verifying" people are mentally sound enough own the only thing that can oppose them is like a slaver making sure he can trust his slaves with the weapons to oppose him.

Nope.

No, the process is thorough and makes complete sense.

Essentially, imagine having a test to make sure you're mentally sound to own a weapon that can be used to kill a huge amount of people.

 

[DreamcastSkies]

 

[FoxMcChief]

And things are not going to improve anytime soon

Case in point what happened on the House Floor today when someone asked for a prayer for Charlie and they were shouted at by the other side

We have to stop this shit

Everyone hates everyone. Right hates left, left hates right, center hates both, etc.

 

[Thanati]

I follow you and respect the notion -- the problem is that when (not if) a nation goes bananas (has any nation not gone bananas?), there needs to be a significant opposition to their banana

The state "verifying" people are mentally sound enough own the only thing that can oppose them is like a slaver making sure he can trust his slaves with the weapons to oppose him before giving it to them (hint: he won't)

2nd Amendment is one of the most high IQ concepts in world history.

Without the 2nd amendment: welcome to middle ages UK where the lord of the land can rape your wife legally

What is so important about the 2nd amendment though is the first sentence, "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State.."

That's a beautifully crafted piece of text but is often overlooked and ignored.

 

[Draugoth]

It's weird how there is so much violence and death depicted in movies and games, and how we're used to seeing it portrayed like that but when you see actual death it's genuinely feels just so bizarre and any humanity in that individual gone in an instant. Dude was talking then a millisecond later he's limp with blood spurting out his neck. It's so spooky in a way that is hard to explain.

I imagine this is going to be a pretty traumatic event. I don't even go into big crowds ever since that Korean crowd crush a few years back and all the videos I saw of that.

There's a scene on Black Lagoon that struck with me about how gun works 'It's not like in the movies, when you get shot and die, you fall like a cloth doll, let me show you' after seeing videos like the one from today, I can see totally dead, at one moment you are alive, and the other it's over.

 

[calico]

What "freedom" is being taken from us that we have to defend it with violence? Last I looked, we could go anywhere and do anything we wanted. So?

Short sighted. UK already lost free speech as the state knows it has a monopoly on violence. The state turned a blind eye to the rape of British children on an industrial scale because it knows there is nothing an unarmed citizenry can do about it anyway. This is also why successive governments have felt free to ignore the clearly expressed wishes of the people on immigration for decades, until in a generation or two the only choice Brits will have left is whether they want to convert or die.

An unarmed citizenry has to take whatever is forced upon them. The state -correctly- considers itself untouchable.

 

[Senua]

You mean the tweets that are hate-speech related?

Hate Crime and Public Order (Scotland) Act 2021:

This legislation introduced new protections for various characteristics, making it illegal to stir up hatred against these groups through threatening or abusive communication

Freedom of Expression Defence:
.
The law includes a provision that allows for freedom of expression, so the expression must be genuinely threatening or abusive, not merely offensive.

Police Interpretation:
Police determine if the legal test for causing fear and alarm is met by assessing if a reasonable person would perceive the communication as threatening or abusive, while also considering the context and intent of the post.

So not free then, when they can say anything they deem mean as "hate speech"

 

[Singular7]

No, the process is thorough and makes complete sense.

Essentially, imagine having a test to make sure you're mentally sound to own a weapon that can be used to kill a huge amount of people.

I definitely understand the counter-point.

The problem is the majority of human history (and frankly our lived experience in current time) shows that trusting 'the power' to determine if you should 'have power' is a major problem of incentive.

The government is by far, not even close, the biggest killer of man. "democide", death by government. Nobody kills more than government.

Serial killers are a drop in the bucket. government is the ONLY and consistent serial killer. There is no argument against this, nominally.

Communist and socialist governments killed 200+ million people in the 1900s

 

[OLED_Gamer]

No it wasn't. That is just an old delusional man pumping his chest to feel good about himself. This is a blatant political assassination and an entire segment of the left being exposed for the monster they really are and how blood is what they want. Let's be fucking real here, do you think lunatics on resetera have the balls to back up their rhetoric?

We definitely crossed the line now where the far left showed their real views of their fellow Americans and the people on the far right are taking note. I'll just fly my American flag and hope people leave me the fuck out of what's to come.

EDIT: correction. When you said "capital invasion" I thought you meant Trump deploying the national guard, but now I realize you meant Jan 6th (which is what it's typically referred to as which is why I was confused). Keeping my original post in tact because I think my views on what happened today still stand.

Yeah I was referring to the Jan 6th incident.

Why is resetera being brought up? I've never gone there before.