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[FoxMcChief]

I thought statesmen were people with dignity, but now all we have is politics erasing humanity.

I personally don't care if people pray or not. Could this be because he wasn't an elected official? I guess I never thought about what he was. A YouTuber? Maybe there was some disdain for that by some?

 

[jason10mm]

Tell that to the families of slain children at schools in china. The only thing stopping someone from killing others is their creativity, but the fastest way to stop them from doing it is a bullet.

If the government were handing out guns and organizing militias, I'd almost agree with you

Called The Army, bro. It's fun (at times), recommend you join!

 

[Mr Moose]

Y'all can just pretend he was a palestinian child. You'll get over it quicker

 

[Mistake]

China murder rate is 0.50 per 100,000

Someone was murdered next door while I was living there. Their numbers are as honest as ours

J jason10mm Militias are supposed to be more local, but I get where you're going. In the old days basically it was anyone who owned a gun that could form a group and protect the town

 

[Punished Miku]

Personally I feel its a cheap political stunt. Not everyone wants to pray, or be seen on TV specifically praying for a top partisan operative. I doubt you'd get all the Republicans to just go along with praying for gay people shot at the pulse night club or a slain abortion doctor. Prayer is really supposed to just be for yourself if you actually mean it, but of course its a stunt. And then immediately someone actually accuses democratic elected officials of being responsible for his death on the house floor which is about 1 billion times worse. But nobody cares. Just make them pray and then lie that they're killers. Totally cool.

 

[ProtoByte]

Interesting. You know for a fact who the shooter was, then? When nobody actually know who it was at the moment.

You're filling in the blanks without having any information to confirm it yet.

You're likely right, but not definitively right until then.

Okay, so I should be more precise:

The people celebrating him being shot and going "haha, ironic" like they learned the word last night are happy he's dead in part because of his support of 2A. That's not up for debate. I just thought it would be fair to assume that whoever did this did it because of Charlie Kirk's views in aggregate. Probably is the case.

The idea that people in America who support 2A should be afraid or consciously "sign themselves up" for death by gunshot at a university debate when the country was founded in the right to arms and is already regulated with varying degrees of gun control is beyond ridiculous.

 

[Senua]

Uppercut into purple land. He had the "y'all" in there too. He'll fit in so well over there

 

[Gexxy1]

Oh, absolutely and the fact that it's coming down IS a great thing. Why wouldn't it be? In fact, there were 18,000 fewer gun-related deaths in 2024 compared to 2023, for example. But having 30,000 gun related deaths, including kids in schools, is still not great, even though it's trending down.

What happens when it goes up again?

I'm not sure what your point is. Do you think the UK's murder rate is going to continue to go down forever and ever? Some years will be higher than others.

And yes, I know their murder rate is way lower than ours, but as I pointed out, this was true long before they banned guns.

 

[analog_future]

I thought statesmen were people with dignity, but now all we have is politics erasing humanity.

Why would you think statesmen were people with dignity? Have you seen the president?

 

[Singular7]

Free speech is also a double edged sword. Had this convo a few weeks ago in regards to discernment and divisive influences.

Free speech doesn't mean free from criticism or consequence from the things you say or do. Trying to walk that line as a public figure is tough especially in the political sphere.

Obviously this situation is worst case scenario but i still think highlights that what you say and or do can get people on your side and against you.....or worst case want to kill you.

Therefore, we conclude that freedom of speech is better than centralized thought-control systems.

(if you don't agree with free ideas, then you necessarily agree with controlled ideas, and control == threats of violence)

Cults of ~10 people on a government committee with a military backing tend to kill way more people than the "offensive" freedom of speech crowd.

The alternative to the government death camps is hearing your neighbor say something you disagree with.

I'll take that neighbor any day! Government regulated speech leads to mass death every time its tried. Sometimes people agree with the mass death group! (resettera)

We might be close to something like a government led mass death moment.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Why would you think statesmen were people with dignity? Have you seen the president?

president(s)

 

[Kacho]

You Win

 

[Thanati]

I'm not sure what your point is. Do you think the UK's murder rate is going to continue to go down forever and ever? Some years will be higher than others.

And yes, I know their murder rate is way lower than ours, but as I pointed out, this was true long before they banned guns.

Yes, I know. So I'm, not entirely sure what you're really getting at.

People brought up the UK here and I was responding.

 

[Draugoth]

Yet, it turned out to be a gun. Guns are effective for killing and (at least in America) not particularly hard to get access to; hence why they are a 'go to' for the very purpose of killing, threatening to kill or as many like to argue to for their right own one, as a means of self defence.


I mean you can kill someone with nothing but your fists, but given a choice, I doubt anyone would be willing to throw fists at a gun fight.......

I find very interesting how different cultures view firearms, I concur that firearms were literally designed to making killing easier and better than bows, spears and swords. I believe shootings wouldn't be an issue in America if mental health was cheap and accessible, but that's hard to find it anywhere honestly. Even if guns disappeared for some reason, humans would find other ways to kill each other.

Anyway considering the shooter did this with intent of not getting caught, that tells you he's been planning this for a while.

Post on Facebook?

Where exactly have you been? You're either trolling the shit out of everybody or you're naive as fuck

It's for shit like this you use a VPN, but old people really don't know how to use the internet. This happens all the time in China btw.

 

[Thanati]

Post on Facebook?

Where exactly have you been? You're either trolling the shit out of everybody or you're naive as fuck

Ok. And what "freedom" has been taken away?

Because we can agree that hate-speech is bad, right?

 

[falconhoof]

I remember back in about 2016 when the Punch a Nazi thing picked up steam. I talked to a friend about how I didn't like it because it created a slippy slope of the definition of Nazi. As we're well into 2025 we now know that Nazi == Person I'm not too keen on.

Hate speech goes the same way. In principle the words are fine and we all have an idea of what something hateful sounds like, but then we hop on that slippery slope of redefining the word hate.

Laws need to be strongly defined, it helps people understand what they are and if they're being correctly enforced.

Hate being based on self-determined values does not work.

 

[Thanati]

Okay, so I should be more precise:

The people celebrating him being shot and going "haha, ironic" like they learned the word last night are happy he's dead in part because of his support of 2A. That's not up for debate. I just thought it would be fair to assume that whoever did this did it because of Charlie Kirk's views in aggregate. Probably is the case.

The idea that people in America who support 2A should be afraid or consciously "sign themselves up" for death gunshot at a university debate when the country was founded in the right to arms and is already regulated with varying degrees of gun control is beyond ridiculous.

And why are people not up in arms (no pun intended) about the three high school children also shot today?

 

[p_xavier]

I shed a tear, for Charlie Kirk of all people. What a fucked up World.

 

[Dr.Morris79]

Ok. And what "freedom" has been taken away?

Because we can agree that hate-speech is bad, right?

You're not really getting it are you

Police review Borehamwood couple's arrest in school WhatsApp row

A county's Police and Crime Commissioner says the case "shouldn’t have become a police matter".

www.bbc.com

 

[Thanati]

The "Well-regulated militia" though is drawn from the citizenry. Therefore the citizen must be armed FIRST, then the militia, whatever the needs are, are drawn from them. This is why the complete amendment says

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

So THE PEOPLE (i.e. all the citizens) need free access to firearms, such that the militia, whoever it maybe, can pull folks in who are already equipped and ready to be trained.

Kinda hard to honor the Constitution if you require folks to be trained first, only then to be 'allowed' to buy/possess firearms. That leads to gatekeeping of an elite "militia" who can then oppress the unarmed populace, which we see in COUNTLESS countries throughout time.

And the 2nd amendment was written when we had muskets which, at best, could fire three shots a minute.

Don't you think things should change when you can have rifles firing substantially more than that?

 

[DownLikeBCPowder]

Ok. And what "freedom" has been taken away?

Because we can agree that hate-speech is bad, right?

Who is the decider, the arbiter of what qualifies as such? Therein lies my eternal problem with what you're continually suggesting in regard to speech. It's not workable, IMO.

 

[JusticeForAll]

The left does nothing but dehumanize their opponents and portray them as the greatest evil on earth. They don't know debate, because anyone who disagrees with them is labeled a so-called fascist. That's the case in the U.S., but also in Western Europe, with the support of the media. This is the result of that. Deeply sad. It may be time for normal people to start countering their narrative more actively, because this cannot go on any longer.

 

[Thanati]

You're not really getting it are you

Police review Borehamwood couple's arrest in school WhatsApp row

A county's Police and Crime Commissioner says the case "shouldn’t have become a police matter".

www.bbc.com

And in that article it clearly states, "but there was "insufficient evidence" to take any action."

So, once again, what "freedom" has been taken away? Can people no longer travel? Can they no longer worship who they want to worship? Can they no longer go to school or for a meal?

What "freedom" has been taken away?

 

[ProtoByte]

And why are people not up in arms (no pun intended) about the three high school children also shot today?

I don't place deaths or people on hierarchies, but Kirk's assassination will draw more eyes than another school shooting so soon after the last one. Both happening in states with significantly stricter than average gun laws btw.

That said, I'm sure both with get significant enough coverage in the mainstream media.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

And the 2nd amendment was written when we had muskets which, at best, could fire three shots a minute.

Don't you think things should change when you can have rifles firing substantially more than that?

Not a chance in order to secure a free State

 

[RedC]

The left does nothing but dehumanize their opponents and portray them as the greatest evil on earth. They don't know debate, because anyone who disagrees with them is labeled a so-called fascist. That's the case in the U.S., but also in Western Europe, with the support of the media. This is the result of that. Deeply sad. It may be time for normal people to start countering their narrative more actively, because this cannot go on any longer.

Nonsense.

This is the problem.

This idea that one tribe isn't as susceptible or guilty of an act as another tribe.

Also, I question your knowledge of the history of America.

 

[12Goblins]

this is crazy.

Crazy this guy is the head of the FBI

 

[Senua]

And in that article it clearly states, "but there was "insufficient evidence" to take any action."

So, once again, what "freedom" has been taken away? Can people no longer travel? Can they no longer worship who they want to worship? Can they no longer go to school or for a meal?

What "freedom" has been taken away?

Freedom of expression with bullshit grey area "hate-speech" laws, but you already know this.

 

[DragoonKain]

Is it official that the shot came from a long distance away? Or are these just claims? Anything concrete?

 

[jason10mm]

Someone was murdered next door while I was living there. Their numbers are as honest as ours

J jason10mm Militias are supposed to be more local, but I get where you're going. In the old days basically it was anyone who owned a gun that could form a group and protect the town

More importantly the militia meant that the governments (state of fed) didn't need to spend the money (raised from taxes) or have the POWER to get the US tied up in foreign wars without the Peoples consent......whoops we see how that went.

 

[Kiwicha]

Fucking purple site.

 

[Beretta]

This is my issue: you don't have to like someone's views to stand up for them when they're killed over those views. Charlie Kirk didn't lose his life because he brought violence to anyone; he was targeted for speaking. In any decent civic culture, there's a baseline respect owed to the messenger, the town crier who brings the message to the square, even when we hate the message. The shooter denied him that, and that should offend all of us when it happens to the least and the greatest of us, ops to us or allies to us.

Yep but sadly what we witnessed today is society.

I DON'T AGREE WITH THEIR OPINION SO FUCK THEM!

So I guess any time we disagree with someone's opinion, we should kill them?

It's just wild how some people think. He opened the floor for people to come together and debate. No one should die for any of this. He challenged people using words and of course some asshole with a low IQ had to take enough offence to it to shoot a man.

Social media has really escalated the hate, people are so comfortable saying over the top, vile bullshit and then close their screen and go to bed without a care in the world. It's such a habit for so many people and they think nothing of it because they're posting from the safety of their home. These same people wouldn't dare talk the way they do online to anyone in person.

 

[simpatico]

And the 2nd amendment was written when we had muskets which, at best, could fire three shots a minute.

Don't you think things should change when you can have rifles firing substantially more than that?

I own a musket for home defense, since that's what the founding fathers intended. *Four ruffians break into my house. *"What the devil?" as I grab my powdered wig and Kentucky rifle. *Blow a golf ball sized hole
through the first man, he's dead on the spot. *Draw my pistol on the second man, misses him entirely because it's smoothbore and nails the neighbor's dog. * have to resort to the cannon mounted at the top of the stairs loaded with grape shot. *"Tally ho lads" the grape shot shreds two men in the blast, the sound and extra shrapnel set off car alarms. *Fix bayonet and charge the last terrified rapscallion. *Bleeds out waiting on the police to arrive since triangular bayonet wounds are impossible to stitch up. Just as the founding fathers intended.

 

[Kacho]

I shed a tear, for Charlie Kirk of all people. What a fucked up World.

The graphic video makes it hit a lot harder IMO.

It's been a bizarre week with the video of the Ukranian woman and Charlie Kirk. That's a lot to process.

 

[Ursus Vindicant]

The so called hate speech laws are applied arbitrarily and inconsistently. They are vague, far too wide reaching and have had an utterly chilling effect on free speech in this country (UK). Particularly for anyone on the right side of the political spectrum.

 

[dope4goldrope]

The state of humanity: man shot for expressing his views, people cannot agree that it shouldn't have happened and was a travesty because they're playing moral relativism and pseudo-intellectuals prayer shaming/questioning instead of connecting on a raw human level and understanding it's a gesture of empathy.

Sometimes I think we deserve a nice big meteor.

 

[Dr.Morris79]

And in that article it clearly states, "but there was "insufficient evidence" to take any action."

So, once again, what "freedom" has been taken away? Can people no longer travel? Can they no longer worship who they want to worship? Can they no longer go to school or for a meal?

What "freedom" has been taken away?

They was arrested you flannel, they had their freedom taken away..

When you get arrested, you're not free.

Or are you implying it's perfectly fine for people to just come round whilst your eating your dinner, take you away for six hours, then bring you back like you've had some friendly kidnap and a laugh for six hours?

What the fuck are you on about..

Stop talking shit.

 

[Mistake]

Probably need to wait at least a few days on who the killer is. If that's true about the bullet bouncing off charlie's vest, that is wild. Like dying from your seatbelt in a car accident

 

[Draugoth]

I own a musket for home defense, since that's what the founding fathers intended. *Four ruffians break into my house. *"What the devil?" as I grab my powdered wig and Kentucky rifle.

Don't forget to welcome the intruder with a pirate accent.

 

[Caffeine]

Bro got shot for freedom of speech that's fucked.

 

[P:axMagellanic]

hasan had an event lined up with charlie in 2 weeks

He must be sweating, because he knows full well for the past couple of years his twitch chat is the kind of place kids go to get radicalised.

 

[Kacho]

Think of all the random people in attendance permanently fucked up by this. So many lives forever changed. PTSD forever at live events.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

 

[jason10mm]

Is it official that the shot came from a long distance away? Or are these just claims? Anything concrete?

I've debating trying to analyse the impact versus the sound of the report but with just cell phone video/audio and over twitter, too hard to make any kind of determination. And for 100 meters or so I'm not sure the difference is discernable anyway, it's like 0.3 seconds.

For someone to hit him with a pistol from that crowd would be a damned good shot. Maybe just (un)lucky. Charlie was leaning back and forth a lot as well, this shows just how close Trump came to the same fate, that cruel cruel mistress.

 

[calico]

There is provision in the Constitution which allows it to be changed if necessary, as it has been many times before.

As it is, the text of the Second Amendment is clear and those who pretend they suddenly forgot how to read whenever they look at it are being disingenuous.

 

[Ursus Vindicant]

I listened to the campus debates a lot in the background whilst doing other things. Didn't always agree with what Charlie said and rarely agreed with anything the students said but both were by and large respectful in how they engaged with each other.

This hits so hard because I feel like Charlie was a bridge, he was one of the few people really having that open dialogue. Now hes gone and so has that bridge. I dont know what comes next.

 

[OLED_Gamer]

What happened in Minnesota? Or is the world pretending only one side is evil?

 

[AJUMP23]

Thanks Yankees.

 

[Solarstrike]

Sad what has humanity become. I'm afraid it's far too gone to save, again. Bring on the asteroid.

 

[dope4goldrope]

it has been made official the original man arrested was not the shooter, the university also released (alongside the videos that hit social media) the detail that the shooter was confirmed from the rooftop, and the FBI has since announced the rooftop shooter is apparently in custody