Unironically how did they manage to fuck up a franchise this badly? Halo
- Thread starter havoc00
- Start date
Artistic
Member
Why is that?
Jinzo Prime
Member
For years they had people who were in top positions for reasons other than their talent and quality of work. Just like the Xbox division they are apart of.
vodka-bull
Member
You mean Xbox. And that's easy to answer with just two words: Don Mattrick.
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RPS37
Member
Got bored. No co op at launch…I dunno. Can't be arsed.
kevboard
Member
because all they do is trendchase without any consideration given if it actually fits the series.
Sprint and Clamber are the most talked about symptoms of this brain-dead trend chasing, but other elements over the years were just as bad or worse.
first the complete copy/paste of CoD in Halo 4. where they added sprint as a permanent mechanic, replaced the arena shooter design with a loadout shooter design, complete with unlockable weapons and even killstreaks, and where they made the campaign missions more linear, narrow and smaller in scope, with less interesting sandboxes to play around with.
then in Halo 5 they made the whole thing about eSports. and of course copied the newest trend, jetpacks... by trying to add as many jetpack based movement abilities as possible, they made the controls insanely cumbersome, while none of the abilities actually felt good to use. clamber also slowed map traversal down at an insane level.
the campaign forced you play with NPC teams too... -_-
Infinite launched completely unfinished, and the GaaS concept meant everything was dripfed and felt soulless. it didn't even have coop at launch! and having Halo without coop is like baking pizza without the fucking bread!
Sprint and Clamber are the most talked about symptoms of this brain-dead trend chasing, but other elements over the years were just as bad or worse.
first the complete copy/paste of CoD in Halo 4. where they added sprint as a permanent mechanic, replaced the arena shooter design with a loadout shooter design, complete with unlockable weapons and even killstreaks, and where they made the campaign missions more linear, narrow and smaller in scope, with less interesting sandboxes to play around with.
then in Halo 5 they made the whole thing about eSports. and of course copied the newest trend, jetpacks... by trying to add as many jetpack based movement abilities as possible, they made the controls insanely cumbersome, while none of the abilities actually felt good to use. clamber also slowed map traversal down at an insane level.
the campaign forced you play with NPC teams too... -_-
Infinite launched completely unfinished, and the GaaS concept meant everything was dripfed and felt soulless. it didn't even have coop at launch! and having Halo without coop is like baking pizza without the fucking bread!
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Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
From the outside it looks like a heaping spoonful of hubris along with a dash of unaccountability.
SatansReverence
Hipster Princess
Hire people who hate Halo to make Halo.
Halo goes to shit.
Halo goes to shit.
StreetsofBeige
Member
They didnt. Shooter tastes changed. Everyone playing Unreal and Quake bailed too.
Here's the real killer. And then he called over all his killer buddies to join in every year like MW2, BO, MW3 etc....
Here's the real killer. And then he called over all his killer buddies to join in every year like MW2, BO, MW3 etc....
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ZehDon
Member
Well, after Bungie bought their independence from Microsoft, Xbox was ready to retire Halo. Bonnie Ross stepped in to take over, and insisted "I want to be George Lucas" with absolute control of the franchise. Her direction was evidently simple: make Halo into Star Wars. Buckle up.
Halo: Combat Evolved Anniversary started the downward spiral, reimagining the original entry as borderline fanciful high-concept sci-fi, instead of the sci-fi military shooter with a twinge of the grandiose that Bungie had originally created.
Halo 4 was a soft re-boot, cannonising the shift towards their Star Wars ambitions: genetic destiny, special powers, terrible naming conventions. The gameplay suffered as 343i struggled to COD-ify Bungie's "30 seconds of fun", leaving the gameplay in terrible shape, earning the moniker: "Lightrifle: The Game".
The Master Chief Collection was their attempt to package the series up and propel it to new heights. It stands as one of the worst video game releases of all time. That something this broken was ever released to the public will forever be a black eye on Halo. After literally years without a single update, 343i eventually brought on help for a PC port - which was also fucked beyond belief - and their support studios worked for years fixing 343i's fuck ups one by one. Today, it's a decent purchase - but it's horrendous launch and 343i abandoning it will never be forgotten.
Halo 5 was a hard re-boot and the culmination of Ross' vision: multi-media Power Rangers in Space. The reception was nothing short of disastrous. The ensuing backlash was so intense, so universal, so un-ending, that it resulted in the series going on hiatus as 343i attempted to reboot Halo. Again. The gameplay was transformed into "Titanfall Lite" with a focus on mobility. If it weren't called Halo, it might have found a niche.
Halo Infinite was another soft re-boot, attempting to basically undo an entire decade of 343i's incompetence. They wound back their art style, their story, their gameplay changes, and their Star Wars aspirations. The covenant are back, Chief's armour is back, Cortana is back, Bungie's sci-fi military shooter is back. Unfortunately, with zero idea of how to evolve Halo, 343i stuck it into a bland and pointless open world and hoped for the best. The result is a complete mess. It started with the gameplay reveal - who's visuals was so universally unimpressive that Microsoft delayed the game an entire year and elected to launch their next-gen console without a game. When it released, the turned out that moment-to-moment gameplay is actually outstanding - but that's about it. The story is garbage, the presentation is lackluster, the pacing is atrocious, and the missions are almost entirely boring filler trash. The GAAS F2P multiplayer stands as one of the worst managed live services in history, currently enjoying fewer players than the decades old games of the disaster-redeemed MCC collection.
And that's where we are today.
Bonnie Ross ran Halo into the ground because she didn't understand it. That's how 343i fucked it up so badly: she tried to force it to be something it simply wasn't. The result is the biggest fall in the history of gaming. At a time, Halo was the biggest franchise in the world. Today, it's a fucking joke. The damage she did to Microsoft's core franchise is unimaginable and uncountable. Who knows where Xbox would be today if it had a star franchise that continued to deliver the hits that the platform so badly needed.
After Halo Infinite blew its $500 billion dollar budget on a wet fart, Bonnie Ross was fired from her position as 343i's CEO. Xbox appointed three new executives in her place - one of which was the man responsible for ultimately getting the MCC collection into the great shape it's in today. They have since re-branded as Halo Studios in order to put as much distance between themselves and 343i's legacy of failure as possible. Their first project is over-seeing a complete, ground-up remake of Halo: Combat Evolved in Unreal Engine 5. We're hearing mixed reports on it's progress, with the early footage they released having a questionable take on Halo's art style. But what we know for certain is that Halo Studios has lost senior staff who still weren't very happy with the studio and its management. Who knows where we go from here.
Halo: Combat Evolved Anniversary started the downward spiral, reimagining the original entry as borderline fanciful high-concept sci-fi, instead of the sci-fi military shooter with a twinge of the grandiose that Bungie had originally created.
Halo 4 was a soft re-boot, cannonising the shift towards their Star Wars ambitions: genetic destiny, special powers, terrible naming conventions. The gameplay suffered as 343i struggled to COD-ify Bungie's "30 seconds of fun", leaving the gameplay in terrible shape, earning the moniker: "Lightrifle: The Game".
The Master Chief Collection was their attempt to package the series up and propel it to new heights. It stands as one of the worst video game releases of all time. That something this broken was ever released to the public will forever be a black eye on Halo. After literally years without a single update, 343i eventually brought on help for a PC port - which was also fucked beyond belief - and their support studios worked for years fixing 343i's fuck ups one by one. Today, it's a decent purchase - but it's horrendous launch and 343i abandoning it will never be forgotten.
Halo 5 was a hard re-boot and the culmination of Ross' vision: multi-media Power Rangers in Space. The reception was nothing short of disastrous. The ensuing backlash was so intense, so universal, so un-ending, that it resulted in the series going on hiatus as 343i attempted to reboot Halo. Again. The gameplay was transformed into "Titanfall Lite" with a focus on mobility. If it weren't called Halo, it might have found a niche.
Halo Infinite was another soft re-boot, attempting to basically undo an entire decade of 343i's incompetence. They wound back their art style, their story, their gameplay changes, and their Star Wars aspirations. The covenant are back, Chief's armour is back, Cortana is back, Bungie's sci-fi military shooter is back. Unfortunately, with zero idea of how to evolve Halo, 343i stuck it into a bland and pointless open world and hoped for the best. The result is a complete mess. It started with the gameplay reveal - who's visuals was so universally unimpressive that Microsoft delayed the game an entire year and elected to launch their next-gen console without a game. When it released, the turned out that moment-to-moment gameplay is actually outstanding - but that's about it. The story is garbage, the presentation is lackluster, the pacing is atrocious, and the missions are almost entirely boring filler trash. The GAAS F2P multiplayer stands as one of the worst managed live services in history, currently enjoying fewer players than the decades old games of the disaster-redeemed MCC collection.
And that's where we are today.
Bonnie Ross ran Halo into the ground because she didn't understand it. That's how 343i fucked it up so badly: she tried to force it to be something it simply wasn't. The result is the biggest fall in the history of gaming. At a time, Halo was the biggest franchise in the world. Today, it's a fucking joke. The damage she did to Microsoft's core franchise is unimaginable and uncountable. Who knows where Xbox would be today if it had a star franchise that continued to deliver the hits that the platform so badly needed.
After Halo Infinite blew its $500 billion dollar budget on a wet fart, Bonnie Ross was fired from her position as 343i's CEO. Xbox appointed three new executives in her place - one of which was the man responsible for ultimately getting the MCC collection into the great shape it's in today. They have since re-branded as Halo Studios in order to put as much distance between themselves and 343i's legacy of failure as possible. Their first project is over-seeing a complete, ground-up remake of Halo: Combat Evolved in Unreal Engine 5. We're hearing mixed reports on it's progress, with the early footage they released having a questionable take on Halo's art style. But what we know for certain is that Halo Studios has lost senior staff who still weren't very happy with the studio and its management. Who knows where we go from here.
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Heimdall_Xtreme
Hermen Hulst Fanclub's #1 Member
They needed to evolve their gameplay. COD came to harm many games, including Halo.
And I played Halo... And what I loved the most was its universe, Weapons, Vehicles and its Cooperative mode.
And I played Halo... And what I loved the most was its universe, Weapons, Vehicles and its Cooperative mode.
bender
What time is it?
Forming a new studio to take on Halo was always a risky proposition. We've worked on or are fans of Halo isn't much of an identity and what they developed ended up feeling more like an imitation. That's not to say that an established studio with their own background and identity couldn't have fucked it up as well, but I'd rather see an Inspiration with a unique fingerprint on it than someone trying to ape the whole concept.
PlayStaytion
Member
I'd say %50 because it's a first party studio, remember when Bungie used to be a third party studio? I wouldn't say it's entirely Microsoft's fault if other major publishers would end up making the same decisions relatively speaking.
StreetsofBeige
Member
For me, I never played Halo 1 or 2 as I never had Xbox OG. So on Xbox 360 I played COD 2/3 and Gears leading up to Halo 3/COD 4.
Halo 3 comes out and it's a big floaty jumping game where enemies take forever to kill, you got regen shields, and I'm shooting little lizard grunts who sound like 5 year olds and jackal or goat guys. And these big brute guys with a hammer try to kill me with a big jumping swing with the same move every time. For all the hype about Halo, I'll be honest.... this is kind of gay.
Game didnt even look that great. Only cool part I remember playing about half the SP was in the first level youre going through that forest and suddenly an alien ship comes down unloading enemies. I actually thought the main menu screen was better than the game itself. Didnt play a lot of MP, but didnt think it was anything special. But this red vs blue arena kind of thing is really tacky after coming from playing COD 2/3 and Gears.
COD 4 comes out a few months later and the SP is 10x better. Back then I'd play the SP first, then jump into MP. I didnt even bother finishing Halo 3 SP, but I beat COD 4 SP and loved it. Very rare I beat any game's SP campaign twice, but I actually did with COD 4 (not in a row, as I beat it a second time later on). Then jump onto MP and holy shit this is way better and grittier than Halo. And at 60 fps. And it's not a skill thing because I never even played COD 2/3 MP except for maybe 2 COD 2 matches. I got my ass handed to me in COD 4. I even remember I had 800 kills and 1,200 deaths at the start with a shitty W/L below 1.00. Didnt matter, this game is awesome. Couldnt believe how much better it was than COD 2/3 and Halo 3.
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Artistic
Member
I believe this is the reason, and not sprint/clamber.They didnt. Shooter tastes changed. Everyone playing Unreal and Quake bailed too.
Here's the real killer. And then he called over all his killer buddies to join in every year like MW2, BO, MW3 etc....
MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
Sign every single letter of it.
Still play Halo MCC from time to time. Halo 3 online or modding Halo 1-3 or Reach is still awesome.
havoc00
Member
I agree in a way, but Halo was once a series that had people lining up outside at times square, mountain dew partnerships when it was new etc.... It was a HUGE franchise. Not to say fallout isn't big but...Oh, but there is. And it hurts.
nush
Member
I remember sitting in a meeting as that company I was working for was making branded Halo 4 merch. It came up in the sales pitch that "we want to make Halo a cultural touchstone like Star Wars and Harry Potter"
I just nodded along and kept quiet but I instantly saw the issue with this direction (this was before Halo 4 launched BTW). SW and HP have ensemble casts, which means for a wide audience there's a good chance they can identify with one or more of the characters. Halo only has faceless space marine and sexy hologram Smurf.
Artistic
Member
Why didn't you speak up?
Bernkastel
Ask me about my fanboy energy!
I hope Sony buys the Halo IP and makes a new studio with ex Bungie devs like Joseph Staten, Michael Salvatori and others, and make a sequel to Halo 3. They even have the Bungie trademark.
Remember these are the people defending 343i's Halo. People who would prefer whatever we have over Bungie's Halo.
Why would someone who liked Bungie's Halo play the modern abomination.
ZehDon
Member
Thanks for sharing. Sad that this was so clear even before the game launched. No idea how 343i didn't clue into that painfully evident fact.
Artistic
Member
Give it a rest.
Kenneth Haight
Gold Member
Bernkastel
Ask me about my fanboy energy!
No.
Alan Wake
Member
I've had fun with basically every Halo campaign since Combat Evolved. I liked it in Infinite too. But it's obvious Halo is not what it once was. Back then a great FPS on a console was something of a novelty. That's a long time ago.
Somehow Nintendo keep Mario interesting for both old and new generations. Microsoft just deosn't know how to take care of and manage its IP's. It's sad to see, and I expect every former Xbox IP to go the same way.
Somehow Nintendo keep Mario interesting for both old and new generations. Microsoft just deosn't know how to take care of and manage its IP's. It's sad to see, and I expect every former Xbox IP to go the same way.
nush
Member
I didn't work for Microsoft or 343i, I was just there to sign the licence to slap Halo 4 onto bags and phone cases.
BigLee74
Member
I have a wee chuckle that some think mechanics like sprint and clamber ruined Halo. They are nothing but small movement tweaks that try to bring a bit of pace to otherwise plodding gameplay. Inconsequential.
I love Halo, but the gameplay (MP specifically) was from its time. Get any COD loving youngster to try the original Halo MP and they will laugh at you and think you are having a joke.
None of the modern Halos are bad games on their own. They all have serviceable single player campaigns and decent multiplayer (especially the last two). Times and tastes change, and unfortunately Halo has just been left behind by the majority.
It could be big again if done properly and released on all platforms simultaneously…
I love Halo, but the gameplay (MP specifically) was from its time. Get any COD loving youngster to try the original Halo MP and they will laugh at you and think you are having a joke.
None of the modern Halos are bad games on their own. They all have serviceable single player campaigns and decent multiplayer (especially the last two). Times and tastes change, and unfortunately Halo has just been left behind by the majority.
It could be big again if done properly and released on all platforms simultaneously…
Bernkastel
Ask me about my fanboy energy!
No one wants them to play Halo. Its the same with Battlefield, Battlefield sells when it caters to its audience and not COD audience.
No. Compare Halo Infinite's campaign with Reach, 2 and CE. Its not good.
MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
I was thinking more in terms of the scale of how the franchise was massacred, not the number of copies it sold.
Artistic
Member
Gamers gravitate to what's trending/popular. It's just kind of human nature.
There's really no telling if Bungie/343i didn't fundamentally change the original trilogy core gameplay formula if Halo would still be as highly revered as it once was.
Also have to play Reach campaign again as well, but I thought it wasn't good the one time I sped run through it.
bighugeguns
Gold Member
Woke cronyism.
Bernkastel
Ask me about my fanboy energy!
These are the people arguing with us that 343i Halo is better than Bungie Halo.
Halo started losing the original playerbase the moment it changed its gameplay. But big corporation (and their supporters) always want "modern gameplay".
Avid Reading Horse
Member
Its players migrated to "modern gameplay" anyway via other games. Halo needed to pioneer its own "modern gameplay" to be relevant, but obviously they didn't have it in them, thus it was always fated for a massive decline.
You think that excuse is gonna hold up at Nuremberg?
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Artistic
Member
I never argued 343i Halo over Bungie Halo. I always stated the game has stood the test of time gameplay wise despite what most people say.
There's also this, since you're deciding to rewrite history:
Xbox Live's Top 10: 2/4-2/10 - IGN
The top 10 most played Xbox 360 titles remains largely unchanged from last week. In fact, the top five remains the same. And that means Halo 3 is once again looking at the backside of Call of Duty 4. Could it be time to coronate a new king of Xbox Live?
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StreetsofBeige
Member
Also varied settings.
Halo is Halo. Sci-fi red vs blue kind of MP. Same kind of soldiers, enemies and bright bloomy sci fi settings. If youre a Halo or sci fi fan who likes old school arena style gameplay and sci fi settings, you probably like it. Even moreso if you really value a big budget plot too. If you dont like this or care about SP story, you'll probably never care for Halo. It's a very pigeon holed kind of IP.
COD simply took over. Not just because of the gameplay (60 fps on console which I believe got a lot of gamers hooked as opposed to 30 fps shooters), but Activision was smart enough to go multi setting. You got WWII, modern, cold war, and futuristic BO. They even had that space age Infinite Warfare. So even though it's an annual release, a COD gamer doesnt have to buy and play every one. I didnt. I dont play COD really at all anymore, but when I used to play a ton even I skipped playing Ghosts, AW and IW. Then BO 3 is out and I'm back in. And then I totally got back to playing when WWII and Cold War came out.
And COD even jumped into the BR scene with Warzone for all the gamers who like that mode. Where's Halo's BR mode?
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vaibhavpisal
Member
I think its fine, can definitely get worse. They may stop making Halo games altogether.
That said, I would like them to go all in on modern live service type of model. Leave behind core fanbase if they cant evolve.
Offer only 3 game modes at a time with good progression and FOMO factor. Make them very deep so one can spend 30-40 hrs in them per season.
If they try to please both, old fanbase and new players, it will again be a Infinite type of situation.
That said, I would like them to go all in on modern live service type of model. Leave behind core fanbase if they cant evolve.
Offer only 3 game modes at a time with good progression and FOMO factor. Make them very deep so one can spend 30-40 hrs in them per season.
If they try to please both, old fanbase and new players, it will again be a Infinite type of situation.
BigLee74
Member
Erm, to be successful your game has to appeal to all - not the stragglers that still hanker for a 20 year old game. Halo CE Mp gameplay would appeal to very few people these days. It is painfully slow and limited, and has been done better by most since.
And I say this as a Halo fan.
I also didn't say Infinites campaign was as good as CE, 2, 3 and reach (my personal favourite). I said they were serviceable, and nowhere near as bad as what some would have you believe.
For the record, my favourite MP was Halo 5. I battered that for a year. It also had the worst campaign out of them all. Still a net positive in my eyes.
The Halo CE will be interesting.
cireza
Member
Do you have a link about this ? I don't remember seeing anything. Thanks. And great post as usual.
ZehDon
Member
Leakers revealed that this the remake, and what they're aiming for.
The key concerns are the lack of the blue and purple present in Halo's original art style - especially on the Halo ring. They're going for "generic UE5 realism" instead of trying to adapt CE's art style.
As always, I'll reserve judgement for the final game - but 343i lost the benefit of the doubt years ago.
clarky
Gold Member
Solid post. I don't think anyone could argue with that.