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[clarky]

No one wants them to play Halo. Its the same with Battlefield, Battlefield sells when it caters to its audience and not COD audience.

You could have fooled me. Go check out the amount of post on Reddit and on this board complaining that they CODified Battlefield 6, yet that game is doing gangbusters.

 

[Bernkastel]

Its players migrated to "modern gameplay" anyway via other games. Halo needed to pioneer its own "modern gameplay" to be relevant, but obviously they didn't have it in them, thus it was always fated for a massive decline.


You think that excuse is gonna hold up at Nuremberg?

If Halo releases with a good campaign like Reach, a feature rich free to play multiplayer and gameplay like Reach (instead of being too modern like 4/5), it can bring back the old school Halo fans. It should be under a competent studio ofcourse.

You could have fooled me. Go check out the amount of post on Reddit and on this board complaining that they CODified Battlefield 6, yet that game is doing gangbusters.

Old school Halo fans are not as easy to please like Battlefield fans.

 

[Bernkastel]

Erm, to be successful your game has to appeal to all - not the stragglers that still hanker for a 20 year old game. Halo CE Mp gameplay would appeal to very few people these days. It is painfully slow and limited, and has been done better by most since.

And I say this as a Halo fan.

I am not saying go back to Halo CE. Halo Reach will be fine.

I also didn't say Infinites campaign was as good as CE, 2, 3 and reach (my personal favourite). I said they were serviceable, and nowhere near as bad as what some would have you believe.

Infinite Campaign couldn't being in the old Halo fans as the story was not good enough.

For the record, my favourite MP was Halo 5. I battered that for a year. It also had the worst campaign out of them all. Still a net positive in my eyes.

I completely skipped over 5. Even when I was in my Xbox days in GAF, I was not defending Halo 5. Halo 5 does not play like Halo.

The Halo CE will be interesting.

No

 

[Bernkastel]

I never argued 343i Halo over Bungie Halo. I always stated the game has stood the test of time gameplay wise despite what most people say.

There's also this, since you're deciding to rewrite history:

Xbox Live's Top 10: 2/4-2/10 - IGN

The top 10 most played Xbox 360 titles remains largely unchanged from last week. In fact, the top five remains the same. And that means Halo 3 is once again looking at the backside of Call of Duty 4. Could it be time to coronate a new king of Xbox Live?

www.ign.com

Who said Halo needs the COD audience?

 

[clarky]

If Halo releases with a good campaign like Reach, a feature rich free to play multiplayer and gameplay like Reach (instead of being too modern like 4/5), it can bring back the old school Halo fans. It should be under a competent studio ofcourse.

Old school Halo fans are not as easy to please like Battlefield fans.

Halo Reach's multiplayer was the start of the decline. Jetpacks, armour locks etc that game was worse than previous entries.

Campaign was decent though.

 

[Bernkastel]

Halo Reach's multiplayer was the start of the decline. Jetpacks, armour locks etc that game was worse than previous entries.

Campaign was decent though.

Thats the thing, Halo Reach had a good campaign. If the campaign is as good as Halo Reach, many old school Halo fans will still com back even if the multiplayer was like Reach. 343i made the multiplayer worse than Reach and failed to make a good campaign.

 

[Avid Reading Horse]

If Halo releases with a good campaign like Reach, a feature rich free to play multiplayer and gameplay like Reach (instead of being too modern like 4/5), it can bring back the old school Halo fans. It should be under a competent studio ofcourse.

Old school Halo fans are not as easy to please like Battlefield fans.

Old school Halo fans. Old school Halo fans. Bro, being a Halo fan doesn't make you some kind of ascended gamer with the most refined taste.

You're imagining that everyone who was into Halo in its heyday is champing at the bit to come back. But sadly for you, most have moved on. The small percentage of old school Halo fans like you would come back to the new old school Halo game and most of even them would get super bored of old school Halo game and even the true blue old school Halo fans will put in maybe 25% of the time they would have in their youths because they have to pay the rent and they're balding and they just want to sleep.

 

[clarky]

Thats the thing, Halo Reach had a good campaign. If the campaign is as good as Halo Reach, many old school Halo fans will still com back even if the multiplayer was like Reach. 343i made the multiplayer worse than Reach and failed to make a good campaign.

I liked the MP in 5 to be honest. Its played very well, if flawed in some areas. The campaign was fucking dire though. Infinite's core MP gameplay is also solid, shame everything surrounding it was severely lacking. Hated everything about 4.

343 have never been able to delver a complete product. How they are still around is beyond me.

 

[STARSBarry]

Remember when Halo Infinite won GAF GotY?

Yeah, im so glad people realise how insane that is now, that a 5-6/10 game from a series that gave us some of the best shooters ever was voted winner based on nothing but brand loyalty. Its why I roll my eyes whenever anyone brings up "SonyGAF" when the Xbox players here pulled off that deluded BS.

Everything Microsoft touches these days just seems to go to shit, outside of the Forza Horizon stuff, that shit is excellent.

I honestly cant suggest where they go with this series, because anything intresting they do (Halo Wars 2) is just left to die in service to whatever average main entry they want to fart out and try to make a live service esport. Stop doing that maybe?

 

[Bernkastel]

I liked the MP in 5 to be honest. Its played very well, if flawed in some areas. The campaign was fucking dire though. Infinite's core MP gameplay is also solid, shame everything surrounding it was severely lacking. Hated everything about 4.

343 have never been able to delver a complete product. How they are still around is beyond me.

The MP played nothing like Halo. Why tag it Halo? Everyone hated it.

 

[Bernkastel]

Old school Halo fans. Old school Halo fans. Bro, being a Halo fan doesn't make you some kind of ascended gamer with the most refined taste.

You're imagining that everyone who was into Halo in its heyday is champing at the bit to come back. But sadly for you, most have moved on. The small percentage of old school Halo fans like you would come back to the new old school Halo game and most of even them would get super bored of old school Halo game and even the true blue old school Halo fans will put in maybe 25% of the time they would have in their youths because they have to pay the rent and they're balding and they just want to sleep.

Dude if they made an actual good campaign it will draw in many players. Do you think everyone who played CE bought Reach?

 

[clarky]

The MP played nothing like Halo. Why tag it Halo? Everyone hated it.

Never said it did, I said I liked it. Never struggled to get a game.

Edit: The Warzone mode was also pretty good.

Lots of enjoyers in this thread:

Thread 'How much has Halo 5 MP changed since release?'

Jul 1, 2016

I'm sure there are miles worth of patch notes I could find to read through, but I'd prefer to hear what the big changes have been and how everyone feels about them.

About to jump back in.

• MAX PAYMENT
• Replies: 44
• Forum: Gaming Discussion

So it seems your "everyone hated it" isn't quite true. Like I said it was a decent MP game.

 

[JimmyRustler]

Honestly I think it was just finished and even them doing a better job would not have changed it a lot. Halo 3 was perfect the way it was. I finished the story. Halo was done. Such continuations never work well. See Star Wars, Indiana Jones, etc.

If a story is finished, move on to something else - or don't finish it like that.

 

[Bernkastel]

Never said it did, I said I liked it. Never struggled to get a game.

Edit: The Warzone mode was also pretty good.

Lots of enjoyers in this thread:

Thread 'How much has Halo 5 MP changed since release?'

Jul 1, 2016

I'm sure there are miles worth of patch notes I could find to read through, but I'd prefer to hear what the big changes have been and how everyone feels about them.

About to jump back in.

• MAX PAYMENT
• Replies: 44
• Forum: Gaming Discussion

So it seems your "everyone hated it" isn't quite true. Like I said it was a decent MP game.

It bought in new players who liked it. Not Halo fans.

 

[clarky]

It bought in new players who liked it. Not Halo fans.

Not sure what your point is. I just said liked it. And unless you have data on the player base and their playing habbits then you just pulled that out of your arse.

I for one have played every Halo since the launch of the OG xbox.

 

[Radical_3d]

Where do I start...

 

[Bernkastel]

Not sure what your point is. I just said liked it. And unless you have data on the player base and their playing habbits then you just pulled that out of your arse.

I for one have played every Halo since the launch of the OG xbox.

The data is that 343i has been hated by the OG fans since Halo 4.

 

[Artistic]

Who said Halo needs the COD audience?

No one did, I never said it did. The argument you made was that Halo lost player base once the gameplay was changed. I'm showing you that isn't true.

 

[Artistic]

The data is that 343i has been hated by the OG fans since Halo 4.

Can you post this said data please?

 

[Bernkastel]

No one did, I never said it did. The argument you made was that Halo lost player base once the gameplay was changed. I'm showing you that isn't true.

How is COD having more players means Halo 3 lost players? Halo 3 sold more than Halo 2 and CE.

 

[evolve]

All I know is that 343i is one flop away from becoming a COD support studio.

 

[Bernkastel]

Can you post this said data please?

Talking like a true AI. Nothing better expected from someone who supports Microsoft. Its a known fact that the fandom hated 343i since Halo 4.

 

[Artistic]

How is COD having more players means Halo 3 lost players? Halo 3 sold more than Halo 2 and CE.

Halo 3 back on top as most played Live title

Terminator tops TV downloads chart

www.gamesindustry.biz

This is why.

 

[Artistic]

Talking like a true AI. Nothing better expected from someone who supports Microsoft. Its a known fact that the fandom hated 343i since Halo 4.

No I just want you to post the said data you're speaking of...otherwise it's a baseless claim.

 

[clarky]

The data is that 343i has been hated by the OG fans since Halo 4.

Wait, your that poster from earlier in the thread. I'm out, silly me for trying to have a serious discussion.

 

[Drell]

One word, it starts with Micro and ends with soft.

 

[Bernkastel]

Halo 3 back on top as most played Live title

Terminator tops TV downloads chart

www.gamesindustry.biz

This is why.

So how does that prove that Halo 3 lost players. By lost players I mean like Halo 4, where people abandoned 343i Halo. Not going to check a new game and coming back.

No I just want you to post the said data you're speaking of...otherwise it's a baseless claim.

No sane person (except for those shilling a trillion dollar corpo) will say Halo 4 didn't piss off the original fans. 343i won't backtrack on a lot of things they did and try to bring back the art style of old Halo games if that did not happen. Your data is the fact that 343i got rid of their own art style and tried to follow Bungie's in Halo Infinite.

Wait, your that poster from earlier in the thread. I'm out, silly me for trying to have a serious discussion.

So saying the many original Halo fans did not like 343i's Halo is "silly"?

 

[RoboFu]

It's easy. Halo 1-3 were made by the same team who had that initial vision of a great fps. Then the big corporation stepped in and turned a vision into a spread sheet, brought in outside consultants, said " what are OTHER popular games doing? , and just threw money at it because to business people more people and more money always makes it better.

 

[Artistic]

So how does that prove that Halo 3 lost players. By lost players I mean like Halo 4, where people abandoned 343i Halo. Not going to check a new game and coming back.

No sane person (except for those shilling a trillion dollar corpo) will say Halo 4 didn't piss off the original fans. 343i won't backtrack on a lot of things they did and try to bring back the art style of old Halo games if that did not happen. Your data is the fact that 343i got rid of their own art style and tried to follow Bungie's in Halo Infinite.

Do you have actually data to prove this? Not your word, data.

Halo 4 top Xbox LIVE chart - VideoGamer

343 Industries' blockbuster shooter is more popular than Modern Warfare 3 and Minecraft.

www.videogamer.com

LIVE Activity for week of November 7th - Xbox Wire

Xbox 360 Top LIVE Titles (based on UU’s) 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3 Call of Duty: Black Ops Battlefield 3 Modern Warfare 2 Gears of War 3 FIFA 12 Skyrim Halo: Reach Madden NFL […]

news.xbox.com

Do you have anything to disprove the top two links?

 

[Freelance Yakuza]

Well, after Bungie bought their independence from Microsoft, Xbox was ready to retire Halo. Bonnie Ross stepped in to take over, and insisted "I want to be George Lucas" with absolute control of the franchise. Her direction was evidently simple: make Halo into Star Wars. Buckle up.

Halo: Combat Evolved Anniversary started the downward spiral, reimagining the original entry as borderline fanciful high-concept sci-fi, instead of the sci-fi military shooter with a twinge of the grandiose that Bungie had originally created.
Halo 4 was a soft re-boot, cannonising the shift towards their Star Wars ambitions: genetic destiny, special powers, terrible naming conventions. The gameplay suffered as 343i struggled to COD-ify Bungie's "30 seconds of fun", leaving the gameplay in terrible shape, earning the moniker: "Lightrifle: The Game".
The Master Chief Collection was their attempt to package the series up and propel it to new heights. It stands as one of the worst video game releases of all time. That something this broken was ever released to the public will forever be a black eye on Halo. After literally years without a single update, 343i eventually brought on help for a PC port - which was also fucked beyond belief - and their support studios worked for years fixing 343i's fuck ups one by one. Today, it's a decent purchase - but it's horrendous launch and 343i abandoning it will never be forgotten.
Halo 5 was a hard re-boot and the culmination of Ross' vision: multi-media Power Rangers in Space. The reception was nothing short of disastrous. The ensuing backlash was so intense, so universal, so un-ending, that it resulted in the series going on hiatus as 343i attempted to reboot Halo. Again. The gameplay was transformed into "Titanfall Lite" with a focus on mobility. If it weren't called Halo, it might have found a niche.
Halo Infinite was another soft re-boot, attempting to basically undo an entire decade of 343i's incompetence. They wound back their art style, their story, their gameplay changes, and their Star Wars aspirations. The covenant are back, Chief's armour is back, Cortana is back, Bungie's sci-fi military shooter is back. Unfortunately, with zero idea of how to evolve Halo, 343i stuck it into a bland and pointless open world and hoped for the best. The result is a complete mess. It started with the gameplay reveal - who's visuals was so universally unimpressive that Microsoft delayed the game an entire year and elected to launch their next-gen console without a game. When it released, the turned out that moment-to-moment gameplay is actually outstanding - but that's about it. The story is garbage, the presentation is lackluster, the pacing is atrocious, and the missions are almost entirely boring filler trash. The GAAS F2P multiplayer stands as one of the worst managed live services in history, currently enjoying fewer players than the decades old games of the disaster-redeemed MCC collection.
And that's where we are today.

Bonnie Ross ran Halo into the ground because she didn't understand it. That's how 343i fucked it up so badly: she tried to force it to be something it simply wasn't. The result is the biggest fall in the history of gaming. At a time, Halo was the biggest franchise in the world. Today, it's a fucking joke. The damage she did to Microsoft's core franchise is unimaginable and uncountable. Who knows where Xbox would be today if it had a star franchise that continued to deliver the hits that the platform so badly needed.

After Halo Infinite blew its $500 billion dollar budget on a wet fart, Bonnie Ross was fired from her position as 343i's CEO. Xbox appointed three new executives in her place - one of which was the man responsible for ultimately getting the MCC collection into the great shape it's in today. They have since re-branded as Halo Studios in order to put as much distance between themselves and 343i's legacy of failure as possible. Their first project is over-seeing a complete, ground-up remake of Halo: Combat Evolved in Unreal Engine 5. We're hearing mixed reports on it's progress, with the early footage they released having a questionable take on Halo's art style. But what we know for certain is that Halo Studios has lost senior staff who still weren't very happy with the studio and its management. Who knows where we go from here.

People absolutely forgets how bad The Master Chief Collection was at launch and how many years 343i spent just ignoring the game. If I recall correctly, they came back to fix the game because Xbox was about to launch One X.

 

[Liopleurodon]

...

So, is Halo now the worst thing ever to happen in gaming?

 

[Sintoid]

Unironically I never understood Halo franchise
Master Chief is the common Space armour that you saw infinite times in PC FPS
Story is weak and banal
The only reasons I see to its success are being the first online FPS on console and being exclusive

By the way I played everyone till Halo Reach wich was my "Enough, i quit" game

 

[Freelance Yakuza]

You could have fooled me. Go check out the amount of post on Reddit and on this board complaining that they CODified Battlefield 6, yet that game is doing gangbusters.

To be fair, if you spend some time reading the comments, you'll get the impression that the game is unplayable and/or that the game is so CODfied that it requires the lightning-fast reflexes of a teenager who drinks Monster Energy instead of water.

 

[Artistic]

People absolutely forgets how bad The Master Chief Collection was at launch and how many years 343i spent just ignoring the game. If I recall correctly, they came back to fix the game because Xbox was about to launch One X.

While they did try to cover it up, I think it was fixed(matchmaking) well before Project Scorpio.

 

[missiles]

Women. It's that simple.

 

[clarky]

To be fair, if you spend some time reading the comments, you'll get the impression that the game is unplayable and/or that the game is so CODfied that it requires the lightning-fast reflexes of a teenager who drinks Monster Energy instead of water.

I personally don't think it play much like COD at all, but you can see in some of the design decisions that they are going after that market.

 

[SatansReverence]

You could have fooled me. Go check out the amount of post on Reddit and on this board complaining that they CODified Battlefield 6, yet that game is doing gangbusters.

Listening to the retards of reddit was your first mistake.

CoD lives rent free in the heads of dumbass battlefield "vets" since time immemorial. They've always been crying about Battlefield trying to be cod.

Not only has battlefield always been closer to cod than the dumbasses would try to gaslight you into believing but BF6 is no closer nor further from cod than previous games.

 

[bbeach123]

Halo multiplayer's kinda old and boring by today's standards (not sorry). It's mainly for the old people(sorry!) who don't want change. But if they keep the same old multiplayer gameplay, new players don't care ,and if they change it, it'll upset the old fans .

lose/lose situation , the franchise's kinda doomed.

 

[Artistic]

Halo multiplayer's kinda old and boring by today's standards (not sorry). It's mainly for the old people(sorry!) who don't want change. But if they keep the same old multiplayer gameplay, new players don't care ,and if they change it, it'll upset the old fans .

lose/lose situation , the franchise's kinda doomed.

Does this apply to something like Counter-Strike?

 

[N30RYU]

In general... when you casualize your game to please gamers that aren't your fans... you end up pleasing none and losing allmost then all... and the only ones remaining are the ones just pleased to see the brand videgome name on the tittle not realizing that if it was named differenty they wouldn't give a shit about it

 

[clarky]

Listening to the retards of reddit was your first mistake.

CoD lives rent free in the heads of dumbass battlefield "vets" since time immemorial. They've always been crying about Battlefield trying to be cod.

Not only has battlefield always been closer to cod than the dumbasses would try to gaslight you into believing but BF6 is no closer nor further from cod than previous games.

Reddit was just an example. Just read the OT on here. If I had $1 for every time somebody mentioned COD I could retire.

I do agree broadly though with what you said.

 

[bbeach123]

Does this apply to something like Counter-Strike?

To an extent , I think ? Steam managed to keep it alive somehow with online , esports and loot boxes . I dont think there are many new players in that game .

 

[Toots]

While they did try to cover it up, I think it was fixed(matchmaking) well before Project Scorpio.

343 industries doesn't care about Halo fans

If someone is supposed to know it is you.

 

[Xion_Stellar]

Once the original developers forcefully bought themselves out of Microsoft's clutches it was over for the franchise.

The only reasons I see to its success are being the first online FPS on console

People often forget that the Dreamcast had an online service huh? Quake Arena III in October 2000 and Unreal Tournament in March 2001 were FPS with Online modes on the Dreamcast months before Halo 1 came out in November 2001.

 

[Bernkastel]

Do you have actually data to prove this? Not your word, data.

Halo 4 top Xbox LIVE chart - VideoGamer

343 Industries' blockbuster shooter is more popular than Modern Warfare 3 and Minecraft.

www.videogamer.com

LIVE Activity for week of November 7th - Xbox Wire

Xbox 360 Top LIVE Titles (based on UU’s) 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3 Call of Duty: Black Ops Battlefield 3 Modern Warfare 2 Gears of War 3 FIFA 12 Skyrim Halo: Reach Madden NFL […]

news.xbox.com

Do you have anything to disprove the top two links?

Imagine showing day 1 stats.

Top Games of 2012 - Xbox Wire

After many days of number crunching, here are the top games for 2012 based on average Unique Users per day connected to Xbox LIVE or full versions purchased between January 1, 2012 and December 31, 2012. Xbox 360 Top LIVE Titles (based on average UU’s per day) 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 […]

news.xbox.com

Halo 4 lost to Black Ops II. And unlike Halo 3, it never recovered.

You are really talking like a bot now showing Day 1 stats.

 

[Sintoid]

Once the original developers forcefully bought themselves out of Microsoft's clutches it was over for the franchise.


People often forget that the Dreamcast had an online service huh? Quake Arena III in October 2000 and Unreal Tournament in March 2001 were FPS with Online modes on the Dreamcast months before Halo 1 came out in November 2001.

"People" hardly know about Dreamcast, sorry

 

[Bernkastel]

...

So, is Halo now the worst thing ever to happen in gaming?

The People at 343i hate Halo and its creators.

 

[DryvBy]

A corporation with all different players who just relies heavily on the brand. They had no idea how to continue it or make it grow. Doom—ignoring the awful new one—has figured out you can have similar gameplay with bigger and better weapons. Halo feels like it's still heavily relying on the same weapons from 2001 with the same enemies. And when they do make something new, it's kind of lame.

COD is the same gameplay almost every year and it's fine. If you like COD, you enjoy what it is. Some of the new Halo multiplayer modes they focused on were so sloppy and awful.

The couldn't even get Infinite to launch with a staple like co-op. They added sponge boss battles.

Basically, top brass like Phil, they're idiots when it comes to what gamers want.

 

[corgiix3]

been wondering this myself for over a decade

 

[Three]

They fucked it up by being bean counters, by trying to cash in on a franchise rather than foster the creativity in that franchise. When Bungie split from MS and moved on they did a "we don't need you anyway" and created a poor self-made studio in the hope that they sell new games on the Halo brand alone. The brand wasn't as lucrative as they thought it was. Bungie went on to have success with Destiny and Halo mostly flopped from 5 onwards.

It's the same with FromSoftware. If somebody else were to create a souls branded game it probably wouldn't really be that popular but From can go from Demons to Dark to Bloodborne to Elden ring and the actual brand of the franchise wouldn't matter as much as the creativity of the studio.