Just to follow up on this because we got sidetracked - it's curious to me how both of us can be presented with the same data and then come to very different conclusions about what the data means and how that should guide us forward as a society.
I'm not sure why you seem so convinced that the stable 50+ year poverty stabilization is a point in favor towards your point of view, because to me, that shows that the program is working to do what it is intended to do - reduce poverty and the negative outcomes of being poor. Like any analysis of a population, there will be a baseline rate. Do you expect the rate to keep going until it reaches zero? Is that your measurement of success? Because that is very unrealistic and unreasonable. How much lower should the baseline rate be for you to consider it to be successful? In my opinion, the little money (relatively speaking) that we put into the program does a lot of heavy lifting towards keeping the poverty rate at that lower baseline rate makes it a great bang for the buck.
You would agree with me that getting rid of SNAP would increase the poverty rate, and increase hunger and malnourishment amongst the population, right? If that's the case, why should we get rid of an efficient and effective program? Just because a minority of users become dependent on it? That does not invalidate the majority of users who become independent thanks to SNAP. Your disproportional distaste for impoverished who might be abusing the system is misplaced.
I'm going to reply in a more holistic way when it comes to social assistance (not just food programs).
But I think for a lot of hard working taxpayers grinding it out paying a lot of money into the government tax pool, a lot of people dont get much or anything out of it because they are self sufficient.
But when money goes towards good causes or poor people, thy just want it used efficiently. Not wasted on dumb shit. And it's impossible to control that for the most part because nobody can see or control how people spend money whether it's gov help or rent controls. All it takes is someone on the dole to be always spending the help on weird shit keeping themselves in a forever hole or not working even trying to get a McDonalds job, and it makes the majority of people pissy good money is being spent on junky purchases. If you want to do it, get your own job and buy it yourself.
There's a big difference IMO with someone in the hole and spending help money well on survival things like good food or rent. But when you see some people just slacking it on welfare or using money on smokes or booze or lottery tickets, yet claiming they dont got enough for food and rent that's a fuck off kind of thing. If I want my tax money spent on that, I'd rather blow the money on myself and buy a case of beer and scratch tickets.
I say holistic because it can also include non-social assistance stuff like when you hear about gov wasting millions or billions on some 10 year project for whatever and it's a money sink. No taxpayer is getting that money back. Gov just takes your tax money and does whatever.
I treat my nephews and nieces to whatever they want at Xmas because I'm the fun uncle. And because I got no kids of my own I'll buy them what they want. I've done the merry go round with my list going from store to store at the mall buying shit. But if I spent my time and money buying you the shoes you wanted at Zumiez which I've done (some teen shop), and then after Xmas you told me you refunded and took the money to buy overpriced food on Uber Eats, ya it costed me the same money, but it gets weird. I thought you really needed new shoes. Next time, are you going to ask me for the shoes again? Or would I be the junk food gifter and now you'll ask someone else for shoes double dipping?
Let's say a fam member got into money trouble and asked us for mortgage help. Ya, we'd all pitch in. But if it turned out he took the money and lost it on stocks or blowing it eating out or buying new furniture, we'd all be WTF dude? That $5000 was supposed to help cover your mortgage for a bit. And were all family, so at least we know each other. But if shit loads of people are getting grilled on taxes and they have no idea where it goes or how random people theyve never known use it for dumb shit, then it becomes a guessing game and frustration. At least with a messy family situation, you might get back together and pay each other back. But for any money taxed away and spent on stupid stuff, how is any person going claw that money back? You cant.