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[Crayon]

Heeeeyyyy weight be off the upgrade treadmill get a good PC or a PS5 pro of a switch 2. Get what you want now and you might be able to ride it for a long long time. Hella people going to be stuck with those 3060's and 4060's for a long ass time. So leapfrog the baseline now and take good care of your hardware.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

pretty soon people will be buying the ps6 to play the exact same looking and feeling games with zero innovation outside some pretty lights/reflexes and 120 fake fps.

Then the game companies will tell you how PS5 was holding them back and now they can render pubic hair so much better!

 

[Crayon]

You are combining quotes from different points in time, when we didn't have full details. Now that the specs are practically finalized, according to K KeplerL2 , and his speculation is $599 for Orion and $1199 for Magnus AT2.

The price points I came up with were based on the number of CUs and the prospective power of the devices.

Canis being 15 CU, Orion being 52 CU, Magnus AT2 being 68 CU.

So IF MS were to do a 40 CU Magnus AT3 S tier console, please explain to me why it would cost more than Orion?

PS5 cost $200 less to make than xsx and the performance is the same. So engineering could cause that.

 

[nikos]

The memory I bought over a year ago is over double the price now. So much for adding more.

 

[draliko]

Something gonna change for sure, HW wise we are on the brink of collapse, we gamers are not the only (nor the biggest) consumers of memory chips, and what happened with GPU tend to happen cyclically with all the main parts, production isn't infinite and the top players are fighting for it. What scares me is that with GPU craze with got over it with better dedicated HW for mining, but a memory chip is a memory chip, it's used everywhere and it's the building block of a fuckton of components. I'm personally good for some years (just updated pc in June), but still I think we're going to see a shift in generations and game consumption in the next years, this is already the first generation with increasing prices during it's lifetime, the first time where being an early adopter was cheaper than waiting for a refresh

 

[Critical Hit]

Get a PS5, they'll discount them for Black Friday.

I have 4080S. The problem lies in next upgrades and next-gen.

and live service games are now even more popular and games take even longer to be made.

So popular that Sony canceled almost all of theirs, and they were made instead of singles, which inflated the development time even more.

This doesn't mean that its successor will be delayed.

My logic was that price hikes would make next consoles too expensive for the mass market, so it would be better to keep this generation going for a few more years.

 

[Aressa]

Actually going PC + Steam Deck combo, this is actually the lowest I've spent on gaming/games for years.

 

[Aressa]

Gaming stopped improving a long time ago.

Graphics kept improving but systems, AI, and core mechanics mostly froze. That's why so many modern games feel like prettier versions of ideas we figured out in the PS360 gen. The industry got better at packaging games and not evolving them.

 

[Seomel]

Yeah, im happy with my pc still. Cant imagine any game coming out in near future to warrant upgrade. AM5/DDR5 platform is still expensive and you dont have any good price/perf alternatives to 5800x3D yet

 

[yurinka]

So popular that Sony canceled almost all of theirs, and they were made instead of singles, which inflated the development time even more.

This isn't true, they cancelled 3 or 4 and still will release the GaaS of a 12 IPs as planned but will take a little longer. Other than this, some pitches weren't greenlighted, but that isn't a cancelled game because they aren't in production.

And to cancel games is somethign very common and normal in games. To don't greenlight pitches even more.

My logic was that price hikes would make next consoles too expensive for the mass market, so it would be better to keep this generation going for a few more years.

Sony will manage a way to make next gen consoles affordables. They keep increasing the average user spent to record numbers, as I remember the most recent number was that on average a PS5 owner spends over $800 on the console not counting the hardware.

Their first party games generate more money than ever, around twice than the previous gen, mostly thanks to their GaaS (with generate 40% of their first party revenue) and their expansion to PC.

They'll continue releasing more GaaS, some of which like Marvel Tokon and Marathon very likely will be very successful. They'll also continue expanding on PC, mobile, cloud and off-gaming adaptations (plus apparently portables too). On top of that they plan to continue acquiring, so pretty likely with all this combined they will continue expanding their first party revenue, which means would increase their profitaiblity, which would further give them more room to subsidize more the console if needed.

This generation they have been achieving great sales numbers even if had to increase the price instead of cutting it, partly due to component prices rising over time instead of decreasing over time. So pretty likely to release PS5 at let's say $499 or even $599 subsidizing maybe up to $200-300 if needed in specific cases like Black Fridays wouldn't be an issue for them.

Other than this, over time AI training servers and electric cars will start using dedicated chips and memory optimized for them, that would use different enough technology made in dedicated factories different than the one used in consumer PCs and game consoles. So I think as tech specializes the components overlap will reduce, meaning the prices will be less impacted because of that.

 

[Critical Hit]

And to cancel games is somethign very common and normal in games.

It's not common to force studios that make single-player games to develop multiplayer games. It usually ends in failure.

Sony will manage a way to make next gen consoles affordables.

Is this the same Sony that has increased the price a few months ago?

 

[Physiognomonics]

PS5 cost $200 less to make than xsx and the performance is the same. So engineering could cause that.

Currently PS5 is probably costing about the same as XSS to manufacture. This is how bad MS is at engineering compared to Sony.

 

[Sintoid]

My money are still the same ammount so...

 

[CentralScrutinizer]

Governments need to subsidize the expansion of the chip manufacturing industry because this will soon become a national defense / military issue as well. We need more economic competition in this space.

 

[MrAlwaysRight]

Any1 still think PS6 Orion will be $599? Lol

Yes, maybe cheaper, Sony can afford to buy at such volumes because they know they will sell through a minimum of 80million consoles, PS6 will be £450 max in the UK, wouldn't surprise me if they go for $499 in the US, but they will be digital only with a disc drive available separately.

 

[demigod]

My thinking is the following:

Magnus S - $599 (40-44 CUs based on AT3 die)
Magnus X - $999 (68 CUs AT2 and 36 GB ram and 1 terabyte storage)

Third party OEM Magnus X - $1199 (68 CUs, higher clocks 48 gb ram, 2 Terabyte storage)

Then OEMs will build Xbox PCs in the $1500-$2000 range with AT2, and AT1 dies. So 5080 and 5090 tier.

And they get rid of Online Paywall and PC Gamepass.

MS always likes releasing an S and X tier, black and white models. Magnus AT3 could easily be a midrange S Console. 40-44 CUs, roughly 20-25% weaker than the PS6, while Magnus AT2 is 30-35% more powerful than the PS6.

$599 S, $999 X, similar price points as the Xbox Ally models.

PS6 would slot in the middle at $699 without disc drive or vertical stand. Dockable Handheld targets the masses at $499.

You are combining quotes from different points in time, when we didn't have full details. Now that the specs are practically finalized, according to K KeplerL2 , and his speculation is $599 for Orion and $1199 for Magnus AT2.

The price points I came up with were based on the number of CUs and the prospective power of the devices.

Canis being 15 CU, Orion being 52 CU, Magnus AT2 being 68 CU.

So IF MS were to do a 40 CU Magnus AT3 S tier console, please explain to me why it would cost more than Orion?

You have 2 other posts that thinks Magnus is under $1k even though Kepler came out to say its north of $1k. He even hinted this before he even said that.

Still going to make more excuses? Goodluck if you think Magnus will be under $1k

 

[nkarafo]

I'm generally optimistic. Humanity is on the eve of many groundbreaking inventions that can make investors richer, including in gaming.

 

[Tobimacoss]

You have 2 other posts that thinks Magnus is under $1k even though Kepler came out to say its north of $1k. He even hinted this before he even said that.

Still going to make more excuses? Goodluck if you think Magnus will be under $1k

And he just stated in this thread that it could be $800-900 if they subsidize.

I just wanna know the actual BOM costs. If tariffs go away due to the supreme court, I still see them doing $599 and $999 tiers just like the Xbox Ally handhelds. With the PS6 coming in at $699, and the PS6 handheld at $499.

Orion is NOT the entry point console for Sony, Canis is. MLID said that he read documentation that Sony wants to get the remaining PS4 users to upgrade and the only way they could do that is with Canis, he speculated that they would do a TV only version of the handheld internals. Like they did for PSTV.

Regardless of whatever the final pricing is, you still haven't explained why a hypothetical 40 CU console would be more expensive than a 52 CU console?

 

[RoadHazard]

The device will be more powerful than a Series S, I think they can get the TV variant down to $349 and mandate 2 SKU support.

More powerful than Series S doesn't say much, that hardware is trash. It was trash in 2020. I certainly wouldn't want the PS6 to be held back by something like that.

 

[jm89]

if they subsidize.

That's a big if.

This is a company that is aiming for 30% profit margins.

 

[Tobimacoss]

More powerful than Series S doesn't say much, that hardware is trash. It was trash in 2020. I certainly wouldn't want the PS6 to be held back by something like that.

Good enough for 1080/60 though, with or without the aid of upscaling tech. Should have 24 GB LPDDR5X ram.

That's a big if.

This is a company that is aiming for 30% profit margins.

Perhaps, but we don't know if that 30% is for hardware too or the overall gaming division. Not subsidizing means not selling at loss, they could sell at cost.

And like I said earlier, Totoki doesn't want to subsidize PlayStation hardware either. No companies want to do that anymore because they all realize they don't need to. It just cuts into profit margins.

 

[RoadHazard]

Good enough for 1080/60 though, with or without the aid of upscaling tech. Should have 24 GB LPDDR5X ram.

Good enough for 1080p60 now, perhaps. But we're not talking about now, we're talking about next gen, which will hopefully bring next gen games (with a lot more RT etc).

 

[vkbest]

That's risky though. PS6 game support for Canis would certainly have to be mandated then(at least for docked mode). Otherwise a lot of consumers would be left hanging between a device that doesn't get all next gen games or a $700 device. I don't see Sony putting themselves in that position.

They are going the same Xbox did with Series S. The PS6 games will target 60fps and 120fps, making 30fps and 60fps doable in this machine. The problem developers have with Series S is the split pool memory. Sony is not doing that with their consoles

 

[GoldenEye98]

They are going the same Xbox did with Series S. The PS6 games will target 60fps and 120fps, making 30fps and 60fps doable in this machine. The problem developers have with Series S is the split pool memory. Sony is not doing that with their consoles

Canis is not going to have the same relative power at the same cost as Series S did. Trying to dual tier specs using mobile hardware as your base spec is just going to be harder than the Series S approach which still had a ~75W TDP. Docked mode at max is probably only going to be half that.

The only way you make it work imo is by dialing back the PS6 itself. I guess if PS6 is mostly a RT upgrade then it might be feasible..but still difficult.

 

[jm89]

And like I said earlier, Totoki doesn't want to subsidize PlayStation hardware either. No companies want to do that anymore because they all realize they don't need to. It just cuts into profit margins.

Totoki is not completley against subsidising. They have done a permanent reduction in japan and the price discrepancy between a ps5 and xbox series x is huge in the USA, that should tell you who is not going to give any leaway to subsidies.

Not only that sony produces ps5s in other countries outside china and produce on a much larger scale so will get better discounts on parts and avoid bigger tariffs. So they are in a much better position then ms to price their hardware as somewhat affordable ms won't

 

[Critical Hit]

Sony can afford to buy at such volumes

It doesn't matter, prices have risen (and will continue to rise) for everyone.

 

[Lokaum D+]

i m fine playing the old classics on my PC for the rest of my life

 

[midnightAI]

Any1 still think PS6 Orion will be $599? Lol

Yes? don't forget, predictions are based on what it would sell for today, no-one can predict with 100% accuracy the market in 24-36 months so all guesses are based on current pricing. That's why really it's a bit early to guess, but I think SOny will do their best to keep the prices down, they mentioned many times the mistakes they made with the PS3 and the main major problem

 

[Gripsx]

my 99$ 32gb cl30 6000 ram bought in july is now 220$

 

[Aenima]

my 99$ 32gb cl30 6000 ram bought in july is now 220$

The 32GB Ram modules from GSkill i bought in April for 120€ costs now 420€ on the same store. There are still other brands selling it for around 170€, but overall the ram prices skyrocketed. Its crazy to see such a huge jump in price.

 

[OuterLimits]

Yeah, if you look at how pretty much everything has sky rocketed since 2021, I think we're screwed.

Most world governments loving lockdowns and printing trillions of dollars resulted in negative consequences.

Plus many small businesses got obliterated during the Covid response while big corporations that donate big cash to politicians of course benefitted.

 

[Branded]

Can I get one of those new consoles with private lease?

 

[Gamer79]

Will not be more expensive for me. Will Just stick to my back catalog

 

[MacReady13]

We're heading for another financial crisis. Just a question of when.

Pretty much already there my friend. Times are tough. They will get much tougher but it is bleak now.

I can only speak for myself but here in Australia (Melbourne), I went to Costco on Sunday just passed. I purchased 2 bags worth of stuff (meat, chicken, tomatoes, eggs, milk etc...) plus a slab of Pepsi Max and a large 60-odd bundle of toilet paper. Got to the register and it came to a total of just over $320!!! I couldn't believe it! That even extends to grocery shopping. The prices have gone insane and it is becoming very hard to live with these prices. Factor in rates for the house, registration for the cars, bills on top of bills and yet wages stagnate- companies "can't afford" to pay much more... Yet house prices are at record high levels. Make it make sense please!!!

 

[Physiognomonics]

Not with all my games I own from my oldies (NES -> Dreamcast). Plenty of very old games are still very much playable today.

 

[IDKFA]

Pretty much already there my friend. Times are tough. They will get much tougher but it is bleak now.

I can only speak for myself but here in Australia (Melbourne), I went to Costco on Sunday just passed. I purchased 2 bags worth of stuff (meat, chicken, tomatoes, eggs, milk etc...) plus a slab of Pepsi Max and a large 60-odd bundle of toilet paper. Got to the register and it came to a total of just over $320!!! I couldn't believe it! That even extends to grocery shopping. The prices have gone insane and it is becoming very hard to live with these prices. Factor in rates for the house, registration for the cars, bills on top of bills and

Food prices are out of control.

320 AU is around £158. Depending on how big the bags were, that would be a similar price here in the UK. Like you said, that's on top of everything else.

yet wages stagnate- companies "can't afford" to pay much more... Yet house prices are at record high levels. Make it make sense please!!!

Late stage capitalism. I should stress that I am not a socialist of communist. Far from it. However, I think we need to come up with a fairer system than this.

 

[Roman Empire]

Any1 still think PS6 Orion will be $599? Lol

By the time PS6 comes out an Oreo will be $599 lol

 

[Crayon]

Will not be more expensive for me. Will Just stick to my back catalog

Not with all my games I own from my oldies (NES -> Dreamcast). Plenty of very old games are still very much playable today.

For real. I haven't played a game newer than 30 years old in almost a month. And even then, my pc should be good till PS7.

Late stage capitalism. I should stress that I am not a socialist of communist. Far from it. However, I think we need to come up with a fairer system than this.

Ooohhh I'm afraid it's a little late for that lol. We'll all be on basic income welfare with tracker chips in our necks. How's that for a new system?

 

[MacReady13]

Food prices are out of control.

320 AU is around £158. Depending on how big the bags were, that would be a similar price here in the UK. Like you said, that's on top of everything else.




Late stage capitalism. I should stress that I am not a socialist of communist. Far from it. However, I think we need to come up with a fairer system than this.

Capitalism is as good as you will get unfortunately BUT, you are correct in that we need something fairer.

In terms of gaming, we need to just slow things down a bit. I know it's not a hugely popular opinion on here but Nintendo sort of going back a bit in terms of power is more of what we need in this industry, as is what Valve is doing with the Steam box. Too much power almost forces companies to strive for graphics that most of the time are not needed for a deep, gameplay-immersive experience. Gameplay is king, yet focusing on ray tracing and such shit is not helping anything. It's insane that a $2000 graphics card cannot do 4k in some games today without dlss activated.

 

[IDKFA]

In terms of gaming, we need to just slow things down a bit. I know it's not a hugely popular opinion on here but Nintendo sort of going back a bit in terms of power is more of what we need in this industry, as is what Valve is doing with the Steam box. Too much power almost forces companies to strive for graphics that most of the time are not needed for a deep, gameplay-immersive experience. Gameplay is king, yet focusing on ray tracing and such shit is not helping anything. It's insane that a $2000 graphics card cannot do 4k in some games today without dlss activated.

This.

If the Steam Machine is cheap, then I'll be buying it as it'll be cheaper than building a PC. It'll be perfect for the titles I want to play.

I don't care about 120fps, 8K path tracing etc.

 

[MacReady13]

I don't care about 120fps, 8K path tracing etc.

The VAST majority don't, yet gaming seems to try force us all down this road, bringing up way higher costs of game production which in turn means we are paying more for games.

 

[LavitzSlambert]

Governments need to subsidize the expansion of the chip manufacturing industry because this will soon become a national defense / military issue as well. We need more economic competition in this space.

Government HAVE been subsidizing chip manufacturing as a matter of national security - it's how TSMC became the giant it is today. The US government has been moving to do this with Intel and other chip fabs as well, but they are late to the game and not nearly competitive enough. And I'm sure there are plenty of other government sponsored computational projects happening, whether or not we'll ever hear about it is another story.

Food prices are out of control.

320 AU is around £158. Depending on how big the bags were, that would be a similar price here in the UK. Like you said, that's on top of everything else.




Late stage capitalism. I should stress that I am not a socialist of communist. Far from it. However, I think we need to come up with a fairer system than this.

Capitalism is a pretty good and fair system, even if flawed. It works really well when supported with government enforcement of some basic ground rules to maintain a competitive environment. The problems we are seeing are due to regulatory capture, wealth inequality, and a slowing velocity of money. Some would argue globalization is driving these problems too, which is probably true in part. The big problem we have right now is the inability (or refusal) of the government to balance the playing field.

 

[Montauk]

Yes, RAM/NAND prices are going up because Samsung/SK Hynix/Micron are all betting the AI bubble will pop soon and aren't building more capacity.

Completely wrong. The AI commentary on GAF is horrendously bad.

 

[Danjin44]

I would still say gaming much cheaper compare to other hobbies out there.

 

[AmuroChan]

I still have a very difficult time believing that the PS6 will be close to a PS5 price-wise and cheaper than the PS5 Pro.

It won't be close in real dollars. Maybe adjusted for inflation it will be close to what the PS5 costs in 2020.

 

[KeplerL2]

Completely wrong. The AI commentary on GAF is horrendously bad.

Go look at their Capex then

 

[MiguelItUp]

I'll just continue to be more and more selective about my purchasing, as well as patient. Gone are the days of multiple day 1 titles, now you have to really think about the price, the content/staying power it provides, if it's WORTH the price, etc.

 

[Montauk]

Go look at their Capex then

What, total sector capex spend up 14% YOY?

Seems about 14% higher than nothing. How did you confuse 14% with nothing?

 

[KeplerL2]

What, total sector capex spend up 14% YOY?

Seems about 14% higher than nothing. How did you confuse 14% with nothing?

14% is nothing. NVIDIA DC sales have grown over 1000% in the last 3 years. If Samsung/SK Hynix/Micron believed this was long term sustainable their Capex would be going through the roof right now.

 

[Montauk]

14% is nothing.

It's a fascinating new definition of nothing, i'll give you that.