Moral Quandary - Should it be OK to pirate Discontinued or De-listed software?

Should it be OK to pirate Discontinued or De-listed software?

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for modern games, at least support the damn dev if you want to emulate their games
 
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Fess said:
The word "delisted" to me signals that we're talking about a fairly new game, removed from storefronts because of expired licenses.
Like Forza Horizon 4 which was delisted in 2024.

I'm not familiar with the word "discontinued" in this space. Is that simply not mass produced anymore? Seems like that filter would result in a huge number of games.
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In a digital context I'm not sure anything can really be "discontinued", barring an inability to run it on any operating system currently available. Certainly physical only games can be discontinued (from manufacture) and pulled from shelves.

Delisting is an odd thing, is it permanently gone, just pulled temporarily to drive interest in the newer version or to fix a critical bug? There is no fixed time for when a game becomes "fair game" but if MS pulls a game folks still want to play and still CAN play on current hardware, then they are at least partially complicit in driving piracy. Perhaps they have no choice due to expiring music licenses but come on, they are a massive company, they can't task some new hire to slap in free music at least? If the effort to do that is too low for the return, then it's very likely that the game has a diminutive audience anyway.
 
pqueue said:
no. it is not moral however you want to try to redefine and make yourself feel better.

you have no right to something because it is unavailable for purchase.

just admit it is theft, and you are okay with that and move on.
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You're not wrong, the law is the law. But on the other hand the industry is bending so far backwards that they turn into human origami just to ensure we don't own our digital games. So from a moral standpoint it's a wash in my honest opinion.

That there hasn't been some firm worldwide legislation when it comes to digital ownership, with the consumer in mind, is wild to me. Governmental oversight isnt't ideal, but corporations has proven they can't be trusted not to put greed above all.
 
If you have no means of buying it (or title is out of print and is being re-sold for absurd pricing) then it's ok in my book as long as you actually buy it when it's back on sale.
 
grvg said:
No it does not, but a physical location with physical products that are limited in quantity is different than digital data which can be infinitely reproduced at no loss to the original.
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I don't even think my analogy was that bad, but it's going over a few heads. I'm fully aware that physical and digital goods behave differently, and that's not really the point I'm making. What I'm talking about is the legal principle involved.

Unauthorised access to someone's property doesn't suddenly become acceptable just because the owner stops selling it. Whether we're talking about a physical item or copyrighted digital content, unauthorised access is still unauthorised. The quantity available doesn't change that, nor does it override the rights of the owner.
 
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The US law probably says it is not ok. Because somewhere there is rights holder to that piece of software even if they do not know it.
 
near said:
I don't even think my analogy was that bad, but it's going over a few heads. I'm fully aware that physical and digital goods behave differently, and that's not really the point I'm making. What I'm talking about is the legal principle involved.

Unauthorised access to someone's property doesn't suddenly become acceptable just because the owner stops selling it. Whether we're talking about a physical item or copyrighted digital content, unauthorised access is still unauthorised. The quantity available doesn't change that, nor does it override the rights of the owner.
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The thread is about the "moral quandary" not the legality.
 
AJUMP23 said:
The US law probably says it is not ok. Because somewhere there is rights holder to that piece of software even if they do not know it.
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When US law is applied equally and fairly across the board I may start to give a shit.

Sometimes in life you have to make your own bonuses.
 
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jason10mm said:
There is no fixed time for when a game becomes "fair game" but if MS pulls a game folks still want to play and still CAN play on current hardware, then they are at least partially complicit in driving piracy. Perhaps they have no choice due to expiring music licenses but come on, they are a massive company, they can't task some new hire to slap in free music at least?
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For Forza I believe it's licenses for cars. But it could honestly just be a sneaky way to get some extra sales… And it works. I always buy them before they go away. They're usually dirt cheap by then though so it's okay I think.
 
Of course and people should always own the games they buy. DRM has always been retarded and stupid and something that shouldn't have happen in the first place. I understand online only games because you can't force devs to keep a online server going if the game isn't making money anymore. But any game with a non multiplayer version should always have a DRM free version without requiring online and should always be owned.
 
near said:
Sure, but if something is unambiguously illegal, it is strange to pretend there's a deep moral dilemma. You can personally feel justified in piracy, but that does make the act morally ambiguous.
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Not everyone has the same moral compass, being illegal doesn't necessarily make something morally wrong.
 
near said:
Sure, but if something is unambiguously illegal, it is strange to pretend there's a deep moral dilemma. You can personally feel justified in piracy, but that does make the act morally ambiguous.
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"If something is illegal then it must also be immoral."

That's really your argument? Come on, I'm not going to even bother with a counter argument. Go sit in a corner until you think of some counter examples.
 
CrimsonTide said:
Many older games are up in limbo, owned by once defunct companies who's been sold and traded a dozen time over 35 years.

Will anyone remake or remaster Captain Planet on NES? course not. Who even owns it at this point? I say go for it, it's not taking money from anyone. If someone did release it, which they won't, I would support it.
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well I mean they might just look at this.
 
I dont even understand why you would ever delist a game. Discontinuing (not supporting it anymore) is one thing...but why not just keeping it available?
 
DonkeyPunchJr said:
"If something is illegal then it must also be immoral."

That's really your argument? Come on, I'm not going to even bother with a counter argument. Go sit in a corner until you think of some counter examples.
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Reminds me of those "weird laws that still exist" deals

Single women are not allowed to parachute on Sunday in Florida lol illegal yes. immoral? nah
 
Need for Speed Most Wanted PC (2005) - Can't buy anymore. Download it. Publishers and Developers do NOT care about their older titles and dont bother to preserve it save for some compilations.

Download away. Not like they see a cent of the money from products they can't profit from anyway.
 
CrimsonTide said:
Looks cool and Sunsoft was pushing bangers. But that def ain't Captain Planet and the Planeteers lol

I am a huge supporter of Devs though, if I can support them, I do.
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that was just point out that at any time they could do a remaster for Captain Planet for the NES
 
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TheUnicornGuy said:
Not everyone has the same moral compass, being illegal doesn't necessarily make something morally wrong.
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People justify a lot of illegal things, that doesn't mean those actions were made around a built-in moral conflict. It just means people disagree about to what level they care about the law.

DonkeyPunchJr said:
"If something is illegal then it must also be immoral."

That's really your argument? Come on, I'm not going to even bother with a counter argument. Go sit in a corner until you think of some counter examples.
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That's not what I said at all. I said if an act is clearly illegal and violates someone's property rights, it's not a deep moral dilemma. You can personally justify or rationalise piracy, but that doesn't make it morally ambiguous.
 
Crackers are doing much more for games preservation than anyone else.
That's the sad truth, corporations doesn't give a single shit about you and "your" games

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Work Monday GIF
 
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pudel said:
I dont even understand why you would ever delist a game. Discontinuing (not supporting it anymore) is one thing...but why not just keeping it available?
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These days, it's usually licensing issues. You put licensed music in your game, and you have to keep renewing that contract every so often. Or you used an engine that has unfavorable per-sale license terms, and eventually the cost of keeping it for sale exceeds what you owe. Those same licenses probably also prevent you from just simply giving the game away for free.

But the majority of the games being discussed here were exclusive to a now-dead platform. Like, you can't officially make new Game Boy games (or even 3DS games) anymore, and the overwhelming majority of games for those systems are no longer available for sale in any capacity except second hand (where the original devs make no money anyway).
 
jshackles said:
These days, it's usually licensing issues. You put licensed music in your game, and you have to keep renewing that contract every so often. Or you used an engine that has unfavorable per-sale license terms, and eventually the cost of keeping it for sale exceeds what you owe. Those same licenses probably also prevent you from just simply giving the game away for free.

But the majority of the games being discussed here were exclusive to a now-dead platform. Like, you can't officially make new Game Boy games (or even 3DS games) anymore, and the overwhelming majority of games for those systems are no longer available for sale in any capacity except second hand (where the original devs make no money anyway).
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licenses...kill games! ;)
 
If a dev/publisher is no longer selling a game I don't really see any problem with pirating it.
There's obviously the argument that "just because it's not being sold doesn't mean you are entitled to it", which is true. But ultimately who really cares?
 
CrimsonTide said:
Oh, well you are good then. If they don't offer a game to "borrow" on NSO, download it to your retro handheld. I would not feel bad about that at all. Cause you can't BUY gameboy games on Switch.
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And of course there are advantages in running in modern emulators vs NSO (have that as well).
 
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