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[kazuyamishima]

IMHO, Joel always wanted Ellie to have love and connection with people and not ending alone like she always feared.

Killing Abby would have not achieved anything for her and when she was drowning Abby it was the first time in weeks (or months) that she was able to see him happy and not in Agony and pain.

I thought leaving Dina and the baby in the farm was a stupid decision, but she was still in pain, not killing Abby decreased her PTSD symptoms quite a bit.

I also didn't like the path that Tommy chose and how he ended but revenge is a never ending cycle and most of the characters were killed because of that, pissing off a lot of players.

The most stupid thing that Druckmann can do is not making a Part III for a proper conclusion, Ellie needs to sacrifice herself for humanity.

 

[Hugare]

Hope you don't mind me commenting on some of your thoughts.

Ellie in Part I was smart, funny, compassionate, and full of empathy. She cared about others. She wanted to save the world. She was the light in an incredibly grim universe.

In Part II, she is cruel, has zero empathy and is dumb as hell. She literally drop her map at the scene where she just murdered Abby's boyfriend and the pregnant lady. Seriously? And before anyone says "but she lost Joel": I get it. Trauma does not turn you into an idiot with no moral compass, specially when she already went through so many traumatic shit in Part 1 that somehow didn't affect her.

I believe trauma does in fact turn you into an idiot with no moral compass

Joel, for example. Killed innocent people in order to survive and keep Tommy safe. Loosing Sarah severely changed his personality and moral compass.

We have so many real life examples of good people that went batshit insane for revenge

And wdym by saying Part I didn't affect Ellie? Ellie never recovered from Winter. She had glimpses of hope with the giraffe scene, but from that moment to the end (and flashbacks in Part II) she was never the same.

Ellie's biggest fear is being alone. So she is very protective of her loved ones, even more than Joel. She is also short-tempered, as shown in Part I and Left Behind. It's not crazy to think she would go completely insane on her vengeance after Joel's death.

About dropping the map: she was shocked for killing a pregnant woman. So much so that you hear no sound during this scene, just a "bzzzz" sound to show how traumatized she was at that moment. She couldn't even speak properly with Tommy, imagine thinking on getting the map from the ground.

First time I played, I felt the same as you, thinking that Ellie wasn't the same Ellie from Part I. But the last cutscene opened my eyes.

She was mad 'cause she was only ok with reconciling with Joel the night before he was murdered. Abby took that away from her. That's an information that no one had, only Ellie, until that last cutscene with Joel on the porch where we finally get it.

Killing Joel was one thing, but killing Joel when they have finally reconciled after years of unresolved issues is something else.

PS: This is why the TV series showing this cutscene at the middle of Part II storyline is such bullshit. Mazin has no idea what made Part II work. Fucking stupid.

 

[Nintendo's Witch]

Is a very damm fine video game that's for sure

 

[Spooky Scary Skeleton]

With this much people hating on TLOU 2 and won't shut up about how they much they hate the game and characters, I'm actually inclined to get the game and play it myself to personally experience this.

 

[DenchDeckard]

I just finally finished The Last of Us Part II for the first time, and my feelings are very mixed. It's gonna be long, sorry bout that.

Part I is one of my favorite games of all time. Between the PS3 version, the PS4 Remaster, and the PC Remake, I have probably finished it 7 or 8 times. I love that game.

Let's get this out of the way first. Part II is technically incredible. The graphics, world building, animations, attention to detail, everything is insanely well done. I remember playing Uncharted 4 and thinking "holy shit, this looks amazing," and somehow Naughty Dog still managed to push things even further here. I lost count of how many times I stopped just to admire the environments. The combat, animations, and music are all top tier as well.

My issue is the story.

I do not mind Joel being killed. I love the character, but narratively it made sense. He had it coming, and I was not shocked or offended by that choice.

I also did not hate Abby. I actually liked her personality, and her story was okay overall. Some moments worked, some did not. I do not mind a buff female character, but those arms, God Damn! More importantly, her character arc felt rushed and sometimes unbelievable. She is part of a group that actively enjoys killing the Seraphites, yet within what feels like 30 seconds of meeting those kids, she completely flips, goes rogue, and becomes a good person. That is a massive shortcut. Still, Abby herself was fine, and I did not hate playing her.

Ellie's story though is where everything completely fell apart for me. By the end of the game, all I could think about was that South Park episode where the kids are traumatized after watching Kingdom of the Crystal Skull and have PTSD flashbacks of Spielberg and Lucas abusing Indiana Jones.

What the hell did they do to Ellie, and why?

She is angry about Joel's murder. Fine. She wants revenge. Fine. But why did they completely erase who she was in Part I and turn her into someone so selfish and unbelievably stupid. When she killed the girl playing the Vita, I was already done with her. Then she kills the pregnant woman, feels bad about it for about 20 seconds until Abby finds her and somehow spares her again. At that point I thought, alright, lesson learned, right?

Nope.

She abandons her girlfriend and child to go back on another brainless revenge campaign, gets completely destroyed, loses two fingers, which honestly made me laugh when she later tried to play the guitar, and only then realizes that maybe what she is doing is wrong.

Ellie in Part I was smart, funny, compassionate, and full of empathy. She cared about others. She wanted to save the world. She was the light in an incredibly grim universe.

In Part II, she is cruel, has zero empathy and is dumb as hell. She literally drop her map at the scene where she just murdered Abby's boyfriend and the pregnant lady. Seriously? And before anyone says "but she lost Joel": I get it. Trauma does not turn you into an idiot with no moral compass, specially when she already went through so many traumatic shit in Part 1 that somehow didn't affect her.

Ellie was a beloved character, and it feels like Neil Druckmann decided to completely tear her down just to make a point. And that point is what ? Revenge and violence are bad and lead nowhere? No shit.

The only hope I still have is that if there is a Part III, they somehow turn it into a redemption arc for Ellie and finally address the massive elephant in the room that this game completely ignored: Ellie is immune!

She potentially holds the key to a cure that could stop people from turning. Not that it would magically fix this insane, broken world, but it still matters. It mattered in Part I. It was the entire point of her character and the reason her life had meaning beyond just surviving. Instead, Part II completely sidelines that idea and turns Ellie into nothing more than a vehicle for misery, violence, and shock value.

That said, I am not very optimistic. If Part III happens, I fully expect it to be another story about "look at these badass women surviving and kicking ass," with a weak and forced attempt at delivering a deep message, rather than actually engaging with what made it special in the first place.

This game could have been a 10 out of 10 for me like the first one. Because of the story, it is a 7 at best.

End of rant.

You literally nailed EVERYTHING I hated about what they did to Ellie in part 2. What a great write up. It pisses me off to this day.

Abbie and Lev are awesome but they turn this once greatly written character into an insufferable dick head. There is nothing to like about Ellie in part two. The guitar bit was where I was just like....are you fucking kidding me. She literally has nothing, a complete pointless shell of a person. Lost everything.

They made Ellie unlikeable in part 2 and that's a the worst thing you can do to a loved / lead character, imo. Each to their own if others like it though...

 

[EDMIX]

RDR2 having a horrid story? You deserve my tag.

That story is such a dumb video game story that it's kind of hilarious.

Arthur's character tries to question the morality of others while being an outlaw which makes the rest of the scenes even more hilarious when you're fucking playing the game shooting and killing people, They then try to make it seem as if he is just this person with a heart of gold in that it's really Dutch that's getting them involved in these situations and we're supposed to just disregard the shootout where they killed 50 people lol

This is all in a fucking game that gives you the free agency to be good or bad to the point of even having an entire meter for it only to then ignore it by making a story in which they're just telling you the direction they wish for you to go...

So to be clear the story is bad because of how they created the rest of the world because it does not reinforce the ideas of the story they're trying to create, If this was a game about a person that was trying to stop a bad guy and let's say he was some police officer lone sheriff ranger type individual then I agree with how good the story could be, But you cannot have something where the person is supposedly a bad guy but also a good guy but also a bad guy, but really good, but sometimes kills 50 people and it's really Dutch's fault with his bad ideas aka "i have a plan" lol

That story is fucking hilarious bad to the point where it literally feels like several people were all struggling to write his character with how much the entire idea contradicts itself....


But hey that's a good story if you just like dumb video game stories... go fucking tell that story to an adult like you're trying to make a show or film and see how much they start laughing at you when they realize the structure those missions as you kill 50 people lol be like "omg Dutch killed him in COLD BLOOD"

 

[The Cockatrice]

They then try to make it seem as if he is just this person with a heart of gold

They do not, like at all. Arthur is never a hero in any given moment. He's literally the anti-hero and you can choose to remain an asshole the entire game, or you can slightly redeem yourself which makes the story excellent. You completely missed the point, considering all your nonsense. I recommend you play it again and paying more attention.

 

[Midn1ght]

Hope you don't mind me commenting on some of your thoughts.


I believe trauma does in fact turn you into an idiot with no moral compass

Joel, for example. Killed innocent people in order to survive and keep Tommy safe. Loosing Sarah severely changed his personality and moral compass.

We have so many real life examples of good people that went batshit insane for revenge

And wdym by saying Part I didn't affect Ellie? Ellie never recovered from Winter. She had glimpses of hope with the giraffe scene, but from that moment to the end (and flashbacks in Part II) she was never the same.

Ellie's biggest fear is being alone. So she is very protective of her loved ones, even more than Joel. She is also short-tempered, as shown in Part I and Left Behind. It's not crazy to think she would go completely insane on her vengeance after Joel's death.

About dropping the map: she was shocked for killing a pregnant woman. So much so that you hear no sound during this scene, just a "bzzzz" sound to show how traumatized she was at that moment. She couldn't even speak properly with Tommy, imagine thinking on getting the map from the ground.

First time I played, I felt the same as you, thinking that Ellie wasn't the same Ellie from Part I. But the last cutscene opened my eyes.

She was mad 'cause she was only ok with reconciling with Joel the night before he was murdered. Abby took that away from her. That's an information that no one had, only Ellie, until that last cutscene with Joel on the porch where we finally get it.

Killing Joel was one thing, but killing Joel when they have finally reconciled after years of unresolved issues is something else.

PS: This is why the TV series showing this cutscene at the middle of Part II storyline is such bullshit. Mazin has no idea what made Part II work. Fucking stupid.

I don't mind at all, and thanks for taking the time to write this out.

You make some good points, and I took some time to think more about Joel and Ellie's relationship after rewatching their final conversation. In that scene, Ellie tells Joel that she does not forgive him, but that she would like to try. From my perspective, that is not the worst possible last conversation to have with him. There is still pain there, but also the beginning of healing. Of course, people can interpret it differently and use it to further justify her actions, but it didn't for me.

Earlier, there is the scene where Ellie dances and kisses Dina, then gets angry at Joel and tells him to leave her alone. At first, I thought that was the last thing she ever said to him, thinking, "Okay, if that's what happened the last time they saw each other, that makes a little more sense as to why she is completely broken." But it turns out that it wasn't their final conversation.

I agree that trauma can change someone, and you are right that Ellie is never the same after Winter. That experience clearly breaks a part of her. However, the museum scene shows that the Ellie from pre-Winter Part I is still very much there. She is curious, joyful, and deeply connected to Joel. That moment feels genuine, not like a mask.

That is where my issue really lies. I did not hate the story on paper. Joel dying, Ellie wanting revenge, all of that works. What bothered me throughout the game is that the characters often lack the gradual development and nuance they had in Part I. In Ellie's case especially, the story shows her breakdown, but it doesn't come across convincingly and her transformation doesn't feel realistic. Most of the time, it just felt like a shallow murder simulator with no depth. Joel's dead, so why not just go kill everyone?

I've read comments from people saying that playing the game in chronological order makes it better, so I'll definitely try that at some point.

Regardless, I still feel like they went the extra mile too far in tearing Ellie down as a character, leaving her, as DenchDecker said, as a completely pointless shell of a person with nothing left.

 

[laynelane]

I believe trauma does in fact turn you into an idiot with no moral compass

Joel, for example. Killed innocent people in order to survive and keep Tommy safe. Loosing Sarah severely changed his personality and moral compass.

...

One thing I noticed about Joel was that even before losing Sarah - he was, for lack of a better way to put it, a bit of a hard ass. When the three of them are in the car trying to escape, there's a family by the side of the road. Tommy and Sarah want to give a ride to that family, but Joel shoots down the idea. I don't think trauma made Joel into a ruthless person - he was always that way. That temperament was just able to have free rein once civilization and law broke down, but it was always there. That's one of the things I really liked about Joel. He's in no sense a 'good guy', but his actions are understandable too.

 

[Sethbacca]

With this much people hating on TLOU 2 and won't shut up about how they much they hate the game and characters, I'm actually inclined to get the game and play it myself to personally experience this.

You definitely should. The pacing is a bit iffy and it overstays its welcome toward the end, but it's still an absolutely top tier experience.

 

[viveks86]

With this much people hating on TLOU 2 and won't shut up about how they much they hate the game and characters, I'm actually inclined to get the game and play it myself to personally experience this.

And when you are done, this thread would still be going. Or make a new one. Game seems to live rent free in our minds anyways

 

[EDMIX]

They do not, like at all. Arthur is never a hero in any given moment. He's literally the anti-hero

Nah lol

We literally have a fucking scene where they are robbing a train and he is like "nobody needs to die here" etc

He saves Edith Downes and her son after driving them poor lol

Strauss is kicked out of the camp because Author's feelings on loansharking lol None of that makes sense for an "outlaw" sir, maybe in some fucking Disney specials about an outlaw

Be like

I recommend you play it again and paying more attention.

I have well over 100 plus hours in the game sir, I get the story, I simply don't like it and its character is fake as shit..

Stop with this fucking shit of making it sound like someone needs the fucking play the game to agree with your damn view point, it's okay to have a difference of opinion but stop with this arrogant bullshit that playing the game must by default mean someone will agree with you....

Thats like me telling you to play The Last Of Us 2 again and "derr pay more attention" and you'll LOVE IT just like me, maybe you didn't get it, maybe you need to play it again and THAT will get you to agree /s

Orrrrrr...hear me out, its ok to disagree on things, but respect that someone's view point is their own and based on what they played of that game, this isn't some seeing is believing type shit lol I get you dislike The Last Of Us 2, however you've yet to see me arrogantly make it sound like you need to play it again or pay attention to force some view point to agree with me.

Stop this weird shit, its fine we disagree, but this odd thing of acting as if it MUST BE cause one of is didn't pay attention to the game is silly. I made these fucking points at the time of RDR2's release and I made my points clear at the time of CP2077's release too. I'm not hard to find on here to act as if I'm suddenly saying this or something, this has been what I felt about this title since it released...but you must play it to come to that conclusion and this is merely how I feel about that game's story. Playing it a dozen times isn't going to change that lol 100 hours is more then enough sir.


edit. and they should have never had an outlaw meter if they were not prepared to allow a person to be a complete evil person. This man can't sleep with prostitutes lol You can do this in GTA and its has no "outlaw" meter..

 

[The Cockatrice]

Nah lol

We literally have a fucking scene where they are robbing a train and he is like "nobody needs to die here" etc

He saves Edith Downes and her son after driving them poor lol

Strauss is kicked out of the camp because Author's feelings on loansharking lol None of that makes sense for an "outlaw" sir, maybe in some fucking Disney specials about an outlaw

Be like

I have well over 100 plus hours in the game sir, I get the story, I simply don't like it and its character is fake as shit..

Stop with this fucking shit of making it sound like someone needs the fucking play the game to agree with your damn view point, it's okay to have a difference of opinion but stop with this arrogant bullshit that playing the game must by default mean someone will agree with you....

Thats like me telling you to play The Last Of Us 2 again and "derr pay more attention" and you'll LOVE IT just like me, maybe you didn't get it, maybe you need to play it again and THAT will get you to agree /s

Orrrrrr...hear me out, its ok to disagree on things, but respect that someone's view point is their own and based on what they played of that game, this isn't some seeing is believing type shit lol I get you dislike The Last Of Us 2, however you've yet to see me arrogantly make it sound like you need to play it again or pay attention to force some view point to agree with me.

Stop this weird shit, its fine we disagree, but this odd thing of acting as if it MUST BE cause one of is didn't pay attention to the game is silly. I made these fucking points at the time of RDR2's release and I made my points clear at the time of CP2077's release too. I'm not hard to find on here to act as if I'm suddenly saying this or something, this has been what I felt about this title since it released...but you must play it to come to that conclusion and this is merely how I feel about that game's story. Playing it a dozen times isn't going to change that lol 100 hours is more then enough sir.

 

[EDMIX]

I would never classify myself as a boomer but as an old school gamer I expected a level of free agency that allowed you to do specific things in that game. Those mission fails forcing it to be played 1 way killed a lot of that.

If we were not going to allow you to go down that path of choice they should have just made it a bit more linear in regards to the structure of the story instead of even wasting the time to allow you to even have any choice

I think if that was done maybe they could focus Arthur's story a bit more instead of it being all over the place.

Free agency may have gotten in the way of the story they were trying to tell..

 

[cinnamonandgravy]

polished game with solid core combat
story was whatever but presentation quality was rare for a video game

not much interest in replaying it though

 

[A.Romero]

Amazing game, its only sin is the pacing.

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

Play more games

I have been a gamer for decades...

 

[An Corp]

I have been a gamer for decades...

Doesn't mean anything. It could have been decades of bad games.

 

[CowboyLou]

Every time I see this thread pop back up I laugh a little. Best "piece of content" I've ever "consumed". What kind of ghoulish consoomer thinks in these terms, man

 

[Seomel]

With this much people hating on TLOU 2 and won't shut up about how they much they hate the game and characters, I'm actually inclined to get the game and play it myself to personally experience this.

Welcome to internet. Most who always bitch havent even played it

 

[Dirk Benedict]

This game delivered on tech, graphics, sound and even..somewhat story... if only it wasn't a continuation of the first. It could have been... Great.
Bruce Straley is the true Naughty God. *drops mic*

 

[Dacvak]

Never saw this thread before somehow, but this game is incredible. Best game ever? Nah. But it had a very hard-to-swallow story, with exceptional gameplay and world building.

I don't think I've ever gotten as mad at a game as I did this one, which is something pretty notable. I don't even want to replay it because of how uncomfortable it made me feel, and I can't think of a single other game that has made me feel that way.

The game is truly something impressive. Same with the first game. Actually, especially with the first game.

 

[Critical Hit]

question the morality of others

You weren't paying attention and didn't understand why Redemption is Arthur's arc. And it doesn't matter how many hours you've spent playing the game.

In that scene, Ellie tells Joel that she does not forgive him, but that she would like to try. From my perspective, that is not the worst possible last conversation to have with him. There is still pain there, but also the beginning of healing.

That conversation was hope. Abby took her hope away. ND added a new chronological mode to the game, and I think that if you play through the game a second time in this mode, a lot of things should become clearer.

 

[An Corp]

This game delivered on tech, graphics, sound and even..somewhat story... if only it wasn't a continuation of the first. It could have been... Great.
Bruce Straley is the true Naughty God. *drops mic*

Bruce and Amy Hennig. Curious how the quality of their games dropped once they were forced out.

Also, what game(s) has NG released since they both left?

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

Bruce and Amy Hennig. Curious how the quality of their games dropped once they were forced out.

Also, what game(s) has NG released since they both left?

Uncharted The Lost Legacy and The Last of Us Part 2. Both did great both critically and commercially.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

The most stupid thing that Druckmann can do is not making a Part III for a proper conclusion, Ellie needs to sacrifice herself for humanity.

The conclusion is Ellie starting fresh a new life from scratch. The "saving humanity" plot device was always bullshit. Humanity is gone, curing the virus would barely make any difference in a world without a global society, with no logistics or means of mass production. Her sacrifice would be pointless.

A third game should feature a whole new set of characters many years into the future so we see if society really evolved or it's still a bunch of isolated communities fighting one another, ala Mad Max. I would let the IP rest, because a good new story line demands better writers than Druckmann.

 

[An Corp]

Uncharted The Lost Legacy and The Last of Us Part 2. Both did great both critically and commercially.

TLOU2 is critically acclaimed with who though? IGN, Gamespot, Eurogamer?

Totally different story to the ones who really matter. Us.

Everywhere you look, real people have lots of issues with TLOU2. That matter more than what a paid media site that staff no gamers says.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

TLOU2 is critically acclaimed with who though? IGN, Gamespot, Eurogamer?

Totally different story to the ones who really matter. Us.

Everywhere you look, real people have lots of issues with TLOU2. That matter more than what a paid media site that staff no gamers says.

I have no idea what you are talking about?
I just checked the game's rating on PS Store and...

Also checked Steam and 90% of all reviews are positive.

Seems like the people that actually buy the game and are only allowed to rate it once they buy it, give it mostly perfect scores or close to that.

Any platform i might be missing?

Seems like "real people" outside of journalists love the game.

 

[Critical Hit]

curing the virus would barely make any difference in a world without a global society

Her sacrifice would be pointless.

The vaccine against the virus should become a unifying factor - humanity must unite and exterminate the zombies for future prosperity.

Also checked Steam and 90% of all reviews are positive.

howlongtobeat - 86%
I do have issues with it. Still, I gave it an 85%.

 

[Froggo]

I've read comments from people saying that playing the game in chronological order makes it better, so I'll definitely try that at some point.

It does make it a little better. Cutting the story up and rearranging everything out of order was just dumb. Peak pretentious film student behaviour.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Can I just say.

You can feel whatever you want about Last of us 2 but I genuinely feel that game was so expensive and such a colossal fuck up on release due to the leaks and the story direction that it literally made Sony look at Gaas to try and get more of a return from their investments.

last of us 2 was clearly one of the most expensive games ever made and it's why we don't hear people talk about the budget and sales / return

It wasn't even out a year and it was 9.99 on game in the UK. Just think about that. That's bargain bin prices within 6 months.

The game was so decisive it hurt the product, and I feel the majority doesn't like that they killed Joel. Just look at the drop off on the TV viewership for season 2. It highlights the weak writing.

Combat is great though.

 

[Ulysses 31]

The vaccine against the virus should become a unifying factor - humanity must unite and exterminate the zombies for future prosperity.

Really remains to be seen if factions like the WLF and Scars would put away their differences for the vaccine. In TLUO2 the zombies take a back seat and other human factions pose more of a threat.

And we're assuming the FF would hand out the vaccine "fairly" instead of trying to leverage it for their own gains...

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

Can I just say.

You can feel whatever you want about Last of us 2 but I genuinely feel that game was so expensive and such a colossal fuck up on release due to the leaks and the story direction that it literally made Sony look at Gaas to try and get more of a return from their investments.

No one can tell me otherwise but last of us 2 was clearly one of the most expensive games ever made and it's why we don't hear people talk about the budget and sales / return

It wasn't even out a year and it was 9.99 on game in the UK. Just think about that. That's bargain bin prices within 6 months.

The game was so decisive it hurt the product, and I feel the majority doesn't like that they killed Joel. Just look at the drop off on the TV viewership for season 2. It highlights the weak writing.

Combat is great though.

The bolded part is wrong at least from Sony's part. The game as we speak on PS Store is at 40 bucks. If any store decided to make the game 10 bucks its on them lol. But Sony never had the game at that price a year after release.

The game sold 4M copies in like 3 days. That's 4M copies sold at full price, including the special editions released around that time. That's $280M in revenue from those sales alone (counting as if all copies sold were at the same as the standard edition which they weren't). Even if Sony doesn't get 100% from the physical sales i fail to see how the game wasn't breaking even after that alone. We know the game sold over 10M by early 2022...so less than 2 years after release and before the PS5 release and PC as well.

The idea that this release was a flop will always be a mistery to me lol.

 

[Critical Hit]

Really remains to be seen if factions like the WLF and Scars would put away their differences for the vaccine.

They don't have to. In Part 2, we already saw the WLF join forces with another faction against the Scars. By "unified humanity," I obviously didn't mean any kind of peaceful democracy, it would have to be a successful dictatorship that subjugates everyone else. It transforms into something more liberal after defeating the zombies.

 

[Steve Holt]

Can I just say.

You can feel whatever you want about Last of us 2 but I genuinely feel that game was so expensive and such a colossal fuck up on release due to the leaks and the story direction that it literally made Sony look at Gaas to try and get more of a return from their investments.

last of us 2 was clearly one of the most expensive games ever made and it's why we don't hear people talk about the budget and sales / return

It wasn't even out a year and it was 9.99 on game in the UK. Just think about that. That's bargain bin prices within 6 months.

The game was so decisive it hurt the product, and I feel the majority doesn't like that they killed Joel. Just look at the drop off on the TV viewership for season 2. It highlights the weak writing.

Combat is great though.

Sold 4 million copies on it's release weekend. I'm sure Sony were absolutely fine with that

 

[Sethbacca]

I've read comments from people saying that playing the game in chronological order makes it better, so I'll definitely try that at some point.

I haven't done a second playthrough of Part 2 since my initial playthrough on release. I may have to try this since I didn't even know it was a thing.

 

[DenchDeckard]

The bolded part is wrong at least from Sony's part. The game as we speak on PS Store is at 40 bucks. If any store decided to make the game 10 bucks its on them lol. But Sony never had the game at that price a year after release.

The game sold 4M copies in like 3 days. That's 4M copies sold at full price, including the special editions released around that time. That's $280M in revenue from those sales alone (counting as if all copies sold were at the same as the standard edition which they weren't). Even if Sony doesn't get 100% from the physical sales i fail to see how the game wasn't breaking even after that alone. We know the game sold over 10M by early 2022...so less than 2 years after release and before the PS5 release and PC as well.

The idea that this release was a flop will always be a mistery to me lol.

Yes, it was disk copies of the game and a few places sold it for super cheap too so there must have been either an SOA from Sony and support from the retailer to drop their pants on the games price or, the sales were that bad and they bought so many copies that they had no option but to take a bath on the stock. Either way it's not great.

Maybe it sold 4 million then stumbled to 10 with the majority of sales being at highly discounted prices?

Sony may have ended up having to pay to assist retailers in selling the stock. We will never know but I know how things work in retail.

Edit. Just to add tears of the kingdom sold over 10 million copies in it's launch weekend. The last of us 2 was the most hyped product from Sony I've ever seen. Maybe god of war Ragnarok was close? I honestly think that Sony will have expected considerably better performance than 4 million units.

 

[Banjo64]

 

[RafterXL]

Lame ass trope that infected gaming. The idea that it would harm Ellie or make her life worse to kill Abby is idiotic. She literally killed hundreds of people over multiple years, but somehow killing the main target of her anger and trauma would destroy her. It's retarded logic. They did the same shit in Yotei. Yes, let's kills hundreds of minions but as soon as you've defeated the person who killed people you care about you let them live...it's so fucking dumb.

The whole "revenge is bad" thing doesn't work when you spend dozens of hours plowing through thousands of enemies only to let the main antagonists live in the end. It has nothing to do with reality and everything to do with shitty game writers wishing they were shitty Hollywood writers instead. Nothing would have been lost had Ellie put a shotgun to Abby's head, pulled the trigger, and then the game went to a black screen and rolled the credits. She wouldn't be any more traumatized, she'd be the exact same person, the world wouldn't have been worse off, and no one would have given a fuck. Instead we got this middle school bullshit where Ellie mowed through countless people, in various gruesome ways, only to let the person responsible for it all just walk away because "revenge is bad". Absolutely stupid.

Imagine John Wick letting Viggo Tarasov go at the end of the first movie and then people on the internet pretending like that was a better ending than what we got...lol. That's the discussion we have with these video games.

 

[Ellery]

Lame ass trope that infected gaming. The idea that it would harm Ellie or make her life worse to kill Abby is idiotic. She literally killed hundreds of people over multiple years, but somehow killing the main target of her anger and trauma would destroy her. It's retarded logic. They did the same shit in Yotei. Yes, let's kills hundreds of minions but as soon as you've defeated the person who killed people you care about you let them live...it's so fucking dumb.

The whole "revenge is bad" thing doesn't work when you spend dozens of hours plowing through thousands of enemies only to let the main antagonists live in the end. It has nothing to do with reality and everything to do with shitty game writers wishing they were shitty Hollywood writers instead. Nothing would have been lost had Ellie put a shotgun to Abby's head, pulled the trigger, and then the game went to a black screen and rolled the credits. She wouldn't be any more traumatized, she'd be the exact same person, the world wouldn't have been worse off, and no one would have given a fuck. Instead we got this middle school bullshit where Ellie mowed through countless people, in various gruesome ways, only to let the person responsible for it all just walk away because "revenge is bad". Absolutely stupid.

Imagine John Wick letting Viggo Tarasov go at the end of the first movie and then people on the internet pretending like that was a better ending than what we got...lol. That's the discussion we have with these video games.

It is about breaking the cycle and finally letting go of it. Having killed a thousand people before reaching Abby and having the position of power over her (also like the imagery suggest where Abby is a former shell of herself) makes it all the more powerful and not less.

The game is not the exact story that some people would've loved to be mouthfed and seen a thousand times before just to trigger their happy "it is exactly what I hoped it to be" feelings in the same vein that MGS2 and Spec Ops The Line aren't.

The genius of games like Silent Hill 2, Metal Gear Solid V and a few more including TLOU2 is eternal and can't be undermined by far right internet commentary on a few isolated places where a minority of people screech so loud because those games fly over their heads or perceived ideological internet war grounds being fought over.
Overanalyzing a game under a microscope but not applying the same measure to everything else does not make someone "see it clearly" but rather look silly.

Many elements of psychology, religion, birth and death are included and especially human nature and it takes place in a universe none of us can actually comprehend to have actually lived in.

Even though I liked watching the John Wick movies for the most part I am glad TLOU2 is a much grander thing. Un unmatched gaming masterpiece.

 

[sncvsrtoip]

Lame ass trope that infected gaming. The idea that it would harm Ellie or make her life worse to kill Abby is idiotic. She literally killed hundreds of people over multiple years, but somehow killing the main target of her anger and trauma would destroy her. It's retarded logic. They did the same shit in Yotei. Yes, let's kills hundreds of minions but as soon as you've defeated the person who killed people you care about you let them live...it's so fucking dumb.

Context matter ? Abby didnt want to fight, was is terrible state + Lev needed care + Abby in quite similar situation left Ellie alive. Tought for sure it would be better if player has a choice but still make canonical Ellie left Abby alive. About Yotei wtf ? Did I watch different ending ? :d

Spoiler

Lord Saito is dead, killed by Atsu

 

[itshutton]

It is a quality game, but overstays its welcome by 20-30 hours. I wish games stopped doing this! Why not save yourself a few million and make games a reasonable length

 

[RafterXL]

It is about breaking the cycle and finally letting go of it. Having killed a thousand people before reaching Abby and having the position of power over her (also like the imagery suggest where Abby is a former shell of herself) makes it all the more powerful and not less.

The game is not the exact story that some people would've loved to be mouthfed and seen a thousand times before just to trigger their happy "it is exactly what I hoped it to be" feelings in the same vein that MGS2 and Spec Ops The Line aren't.

The genius of games like Silent Hill 2, Metal Gear Solid V and a few more including TLOU2 is eternal and can't be undermined by far right internet commentary on a few isolated places where a minority of people screech so loud because those games fly over their heads or perceived ideological internet war grounds being fought over.
Overanalyzing a game under a microscope but not applying the same measure to everything else does not make someone "see it clearly" but rather look silly.

Many elements of psychology, religion, birth and death are included and especially human nature and it takes place in a universe none of us can actually comprehend to have actually lived in.

Even though I liked watching the John Wick movies for the most part I am glad TLOU2 is a much grander thing. Un unmatched gaming masterpiece.

Yes, it's about breaking the cycle and that always conveniently has to break the exact moment the primary target is in reach. It's stupid and the fact you had to drag in right wing commentary shows how far up it's ass the game and it's fans are about this game. Who the fuck mentioned politics? But, hey, keep banging the drum that it's a masterpiece, when most people clearly see it as inferior to the first game and it's probably the reason a third will never get made.

And, brother, the game 100% rips the incomprehensible "universe" from a million other stories over the past 100 years, so the average person can comprehend it just fine, just as the writers had to do so in order to write it in the first place. This is just another example of people like you elevating it to a level it doesn't deserve. It's literally the fucking Walking Dead, which aired 10 full years before this game came out and was vastly more impactful than TLoU2. Copy+Paste "The Walking Dead" = unmatched masterpiece.

Context matter ? Abby didnt want to fight, was is terrible state + Lev needed care + Abby in quite similar situation left Ellie alive. Tought for sure it would be better if player has a choice but still make canonical Ellie left Abby alive. About Yotei wtf ? Did I watch different ending ? :d

Spoiler

Lord Saito is dead, killed by Atsu

Atsu spares multiple people who are responsible for the terrible things that happened in the story, all because of this trite "break the cycle" trope that game developers love to use so much these days.

It is a quality game, but overstays its welcome by 20-30 hours. I wish games stopped doing this! Why not save yourself a few million and make games a reasonable length

The gameplay is great, but it's definitely at least 10 hours to long. 30 hours would be almost the entire game...lol.

 

[TacoSavage]

i played this game in two sessions, first was with ellie up until switch to abby and then another session starting with abby chapters all way to end.

its the only game that made me sit and think about what i just played during the credits and i this game was so far and beyond anything else on the market even to this day and that was five years ago, it was just an unmatched experience. yes the trans shit and killing off joel was bad but the overall experience was one big mind fuck that has yet to be topped by any other game probably until intergalactic

i remember during the late rainy chapters with abby how drained i felt, the game was so realistic and masterfully crafted, i connected with all the characters unlike any other video game. their writers and mo cap and animators and environment design all combine to create a truly special game. i completed the game 5x since, each time going up a notch in difficulty and i'll never forget the first time playing through it, nothing else like it on the market to this day, period.

 

[TacoSavage]

that was a truly powerful moment for me, when the camera zooms in on ellie as abby is about to be drowned and then lets her go. it may not be for everyone but god damn that shit hit hard, the vicious cycle of violence and ellie losing it all at the end. i always find most games and their writing so cheesy but this game hit me like a ton of bricks, its really well done imo

 

[Sand Dan Glokta]

Game is an embodiment of r/Im14andthisisdeep

 

[Minsc]

If he's dead and you're alive how can you become just like him? Fucking kill him, no questions, no regrets, no remorse. Pussy footing bullshit conscious MCs get the fuck out of my game.

 

[ZehDon]

... The idea that this release was a flop will always be a mistery to me lol.

I think it comes from underperformance being re-written as a flop to fit a culture war narrative, frankly. The first entry shifted something like 25 million units and cost approximately USD$80m. That's an insane ROI. TLOUP2 has sold 10m at last count, but cost USD$220m. You don't triple the budget and expect 40% of the sales. It's clearly a very profitable endeavor for Sony, but it also clearly underperformed. However, most developers would kill for 10m sales for their AAA titles, so the idea that TLOUP2 is a flop is, and continues to be, fucking stupid.

 

[Markio128]

Everything else aside, the combat is the best in its class by a landslide. It's brutal, intense, challenging, and has fantastically designed encounters with multiple ways to progress. I get the focus on some of the other stuff, but ultimately, if gameplay is king, then this game sure wears the crown.

 

[Three]

I think it comes from underperformance being re-written as a flop to fit a culture war narrative, frankly. The first entry shifted something like 25 million units and cost approximately USD$80m. That's an insane ROI. TLOUP2 has sold 10m at last count, but cost USD$220m. You don't triple the budget and expect 40% of the sales. It's clearly a very profitable endeavor for Sony, but it also clearly underperformed. However, most developers would kill for 10m sales for their AAA titles, so the idea that TLOUP2 is a flop is, and continues to be, fucking stupid.

It's worth pointing out that as far as I know TLOU2 had higher revenue than TLOU1 according to the leaks. TLOU1 had more unit sales when you include the remaster and original but they were at a lower pricepoint. So it wasn't really 40% of the sales when trying to calculate ROI. According to the Sony title revenue leaks TLOU2 was their 3rd highest revenue title, only behind GoW Ragnarok and Spiderman 1. TLOU Remastered was 11th, TLOU remake was 24th and TLOU PS3 was something like 37th in revenue. This was even before TLOU2 remastered on PS5 too.
You can't use total unit sales for revenue/ROI because the older games sell more units for less dollars, being old and on the market for so long.