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[Pete the Ferret]

So, I went to Poland for 10 days over Christmas, had a fantastic time. I know a (very) few basic phrases which I've picked up over the last few years from Polish friends etc but not much more than saying Good Afternoon, Thank you etc.

Since school, I was never any good at learning and retaining a second language (I'm British). French did not stick, German did not stick. I've tried Duolingo, I've sat and listened to my friends many conversations in Polish (and ran Google Translate at the same time), watched many Polish movies (with English subs) and other Polish tv programmes and...I still suck!

Even when I was there, I would have the phrases ready in my head and when it came to the moment, half the time they'd disappear in a cloud of embarrassed, shy silence!

Is there anyway, as an old fart of a man I can improve this situation...quickly, or at least quicker!?

I'm looking to visit Krakow and/or Warsaw in the summer and I'd like to be better prepared!

Some people I know seem to pick up a 2nd language (or 3rd, 4th) easily, how are their brains working differently to mine!?

Admittedly, Polish is a bloody difficult language to learn Help me 2nd language expert GAF!

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

conversation is important, if you can't have conversations, watch media in the language you want to learn.

 

[winjer]

How old are you?
It's much easier to learn new languages when we are young.

 

[Pete the Ferret]

How old are you?
It's much easier to learn new languages when we are young.

That's just one of my problems, I'm 53. I know as many Polish words/phrases as I do French and I was school age when I learnt that. I just have always struggled to retain it.

 

[jshackles]

Are you otherwise shy? I was in Japan last year (after spending the last five years learning the language) but I'm also quite shy around strangers. This is looked upon favorably in Japan, but it took a while to get past the "I have this phrase ready in my head but when the time comes I'm clueless" and was finally able to just talk to people. Well, as was appropriate, since talking to strangers there like we do in America is kind of a big social no-no.

Best advice I can give you is to find a language group, either locally or online. Local is best if there's one in your area. Get together with other people learning Polish and native speakers, and just have conversations with them. Sounds like you have some Polish friends, so that's where I'd start.

That's just one of my problems, I'm 53.

Trust me, it's never too late. It'll be harder, but it's 100% possible if you're willing to put in the effort.

Also, skip Duolingo it's downright terrible for actually learning a language.

 

[jufonuk]

Any free good language apps ?

 

[nush]

So, I went to Poland for 10 days over Christmas, had a fantastic time.

You're still dating her?

 

[Pete the Ferret]

You're still dating her?

Mostly . We stayed with her Mum for 10 days in her home city of Ełk, genuinely had a really good time and got to meet the rest of her family (I've met one sister and one brother that live in the UK already, so it was the other brother and other sister this time plus Mum).

 

[Pete the Ferret]

Are you otherwise shy? I was in Japan last year (after spending the last five years learning the language) but I'm also quite shy around strangers. This is looked upon favorably in Japan, but it took a while to get past the "I have this phrase ready in my head but when the time comes I'm clueless" and was finally able to just talk to people. Well, as was appropriate, since talking to strangers there like we do in America is kind of a big social no-no.

Best advice I can give you is to find a language group, either locally or online. Local is best if there's one in your area. Get together with other people learning Polish and native speakers, and just have conversations with them. Sounds like you have some Polish friends, so that's where I'd start.


Trust me, it's never too late. It'll be harder, but it's 100% possible if you're willing to put in the effort.

Also, skip Duolingo it's downright terrible for actually learning a language.

I'm actually a fairly confident guy usually (I work in business development so it's kinda necessary lol), however I can confidently talk about the business I work for, what we do etc.

Bizarrely I can retain all that business information plus a ridiculous amount of frankly useless stuff too, just not language's. I thought I'd be better at French due to many of the same or similar words but nope.

 

[jshackles]

I'm actually a fairly confident guy usually (I work in business development so it's kinda necessary lol), however I can confidently talk about the business I work for, what we do etc.

Bizarrely I can retain all that business information plus a ridiculous amount of frankly useless stuff too, just not language's. I thought I'd be better at French due to many of the same or similar words but nope.

Understandable, but I assure you it's completely different parts of the brain that are used for language than used for memorizing facts.

Backstory: I'm close to your age. When I was a kid (about 8 years old) my family moved to Mexico for several years and I naturally picked up Spanish. I moved back to the US when I was 12, and had a total of four years of formalized Spanish language classes in junior high and high school. I'd say I was very close to fluent. When I was 16 I got in a car accident and spent a few weeks in the hospital before waking up. Major head trauma - and when I finally went back to school I found that I had lost 100% of my Spanish-speaking skills. It literally reverted my brain to the language sounding gibberish. Cue me almost failing high school Spanish lol. I never picked it back up again after that.

Anyway, fast-forward to 2020 when I was in my mid-40s and decided I wanted to learn Japanese. At this point I'd worked in IT for over 25 years and have a great talent for remembering even the tiniest technical detail about something. Still, learning a second language made me feel like I was trying to swim with one arm tied behind my back. My brain wanted to learn it the same way I learn other / technical things, and it just doesn't work like that. Unlike learning facts, most people's brains don't "absorb" language unless you're actually using it to convey ideas to others (this is called the Interaction Hypothesis). Essentially, you have to negotiate misunderstandings with other speakers and use that feedback to help further your own understanding. In some ways, it's kind of like training at the gym - you can learn everything there is to know about how to lift weights, but it doesn't do you any good until you actually do it.

What's weird for me personally and my own language journey is that even though it'd been 30 years since I spoke Spanish, as I was learning Japanese the Spanish kind of came flying back at me. Guess I finally tapped into that part of my brain after all this time. The sensation felt a lot like Neo in the first Matrix movie like "whoa, I know kung fu" like it had just been downloaded into my brain.

Sorry for the wall of text - I just wanted to say don't give up hope and just keep at it. Practice, repetition, and persistence is key.

 

[nush]

Understandable, but I assure you it's completely different parts of the brain that are used for language than used for memorizing facts.

That's what I found learning Chinese that it's in a different part of your brain. Also and I don't know if this applies to you, numbers go in a different part of my brain. Even the Chinese numbers.

Like you said about Neo also rings true. Once you understand the foreign words and they are in the right place you stop translating into your own language and just "know" what the word means. Then it's half the work to learn and recall.

I used to practice in my head without speaking as I was walking. "I am walking to the shop" "that is a bus" "It's 10:30" that sort of stuff helped me recall on the spot a lot of stuff.

 

[kruis]

Mostly . We stayed with her Mum for 10 days in her home city of Ełk, genuinely had a really good time and got to meet the rest of her family (I've met one sister and one brother that live in the UK already, so it was the other brother and other sister this time plus Mum).

If you've got a Polish girlfriend then it's easy: practice speaking Polish with her as much as you can. It's going to be a struggle in the beginning, because fluent conversations come to a screeching halt when you're constantly struggling for words, but it's the only way to get another language drilled down into your brain. It just takes a lot of time to become fluent at a language when you're getting older.

 

[nkarafo]

I learned English by reading gaming magazines and then trying to do posts in forums when i started using the internet. My speaking probably sucks because there's nobody to speak English with.

 

[Porcile]

People who get good at second languages are people who are really into the culture of the country's language they are trying to learn. No one gets good at language just with boring small talk and you can see those those Level 99 Duolinguists a mile away compared to someone that can read a newspaper or watch a movie in a second language.

Do you like any Polish writers? What kind of Polish TV or movies do you watch? Do you even have any interest in Polish outside of just wanting to be the cool guy that can speak Polish?

 

[GateofD]

its like, i barely pass at speaking english as it is. and then trying a 2nd language on top? sorry my tongue won't cooperate.

 

[bitbydeath]

Cunt'ven mast3r tis 1

 

[Sticks]

Play the Witcher and Cyberpunk in Polish

 

[Dioica]

Language learning is so hard. I've been learning Vietnamese for years and I'm reasonably competent in conversations but I seem to have been stuck at the same level for ages.

Duolingo is useless. I really like using textbooks to learn the basics, because you have everything right there and you have something to work through to motivate you. (I taught myself to read and write and have basic conversations in Arabic using a textbook.) I also have online Vietnamese classes twice weekly, this is very helpful. Make time to study daily, and be consistent - that is so important. Make it a habit, do it at the same time every day. 30 mins to an hour. Write and read.

 

[Artoris]

First you have to ask your self if you want to learn The language or just some usable phrases
learning a language typically takes two years of hard work

 

[p_xavier]

Can't even learn my first so yeah.

 

[Gp1]

Bro you are trying to learn one of the most difficult languages in Europe at 53. It is hard.

I took 2.5 years of German when i was 35-38, which much simpler than Polish, just to understand what my Swiss girlfriend's Family was talking about (me).

I can't remember most of the vocabulary as I don't use it frequently but I still can get something by context. (Even though a background in a germanic language and fluency in a Latin one helps because there are many cognate shortcuts, which is probably true in Polish too, I think...)

If I remember correctly Polish has 6 or 7 cases, perfect and imperfect verbs, animate and inanimate gender, etc. It's a complete clusterfuck that can be in some points harder than even Russian.

Get the basics just to not starve in Warsaw, don't put too much pressure on yourself and work it from there.

 

[Pete the Ferret]

People who get good at second languages are people who are really into the culture of the country's language they are trying to learn. No one gets good at language just with boring small talk and you can see those those Level 99 Duolinguists a mile away compared to someone that can read a newspaper or watch a movie in a second language.

Do you like any Polish writers? What kind of Polish TV or movies do you watch? Do you even have any interest in Polish outside of just wanting to be the cool guy that can speak Polish?

I've watched a bunch of Polish films, some of the comedies I enjoy as I find strangely those generally easier to understand.

I also have watched a bunch of cookery type programmes (their version of Gordon Ramsay Kitchen Nightmares with that Magda lady), their versions of Come Dine With Me etc.

I do have an interest in speaking Polish, not necessarily fluently but enough...other than visiting Poland again and getting by, I really do have a lot of Polish friends here. Whilst they all of course speak excellent English I'd like to be able to communicate/understand conversations in their own language too. Not to be the 'cool' guy, just to be a nice guy really and be able to do something I've always struggled with.

I think I'm gonna enrol in some one to one tuition from a qualified teacher, seems the best starting point (along with consuming more media).

 

[Baemono]

It's like you only know racing simulations and all of a sudden you need to master a JRPG. You need to understand how the language works, and then go to details, and then it starts to become easier over time.

Unfortunately Polish is very different from English so you'll have to learn the structure first.

Like as all germanic languages work the same way, you'd have less trouble learning German/Dutch/Sweedish than Polish

 

[Sakura]

If you want to learn a language then you need to actually use it. Watching Polish movies with English subs isn't going to help you learn the language, because your brain is just going to end up relying on the subtitles.
When I was learning a second language I would read lots in that language. Every time I would come up to a word, or phrasing, or whatever that I didn't understand, I would go look it up and find out what it means. Obviously this would happen pretty often in the beginning. The more times I would encounter the same thing, the more I would retain that information.
I would also try translating stuff. I worked on some fan translations, and it really improved my understanding trying to render the meaning of something from one language to another.
Of course, communication is important too, otherwise you might understand it but not be able to speak it. Watch Polish stuff, and try to emulate the way they are pronouncing things. Find other resources on pronunciation. Try speaking things in Polish, even if just to yourself. Try writing in Polish.

A lot of the things you are trying just sound like passive learning, which isn't really going to result in much.

 

[GymWolf]

I basically learned english from tv series and videogames

 

[Bojji]

I learned English by reading gaming magazines and then trying to do posts in forums when i started using the internet. My speaking probably sucks because there's nobody to speak English with.

Yep. I learned English by video games (PSX, PS2) when I was ~10, 11. When I started to have mandatory English lessons two years later I knew shit ton of words and got near perfect scores without even trying. What English in school taught me: grammar and all that past/present/future stuff (and I make mistakes with that sometimes, 100%).

And same as you, I have no one to talk to in English...

I basically learned english from tv series and videogames

MGS 1/2 and FFX were my main teachers, lol.

I've watched a bunch of Polish films, some of the comedies I enjoy as I find strangely those generally easier to understand.

I also have watched a bunch of cookery type programmes (their version of Gordon Ramsay Kitchen Nightmares with that Magda lady), their versions of Come Dine With Me etc.

I do have an interest in speaking Polish, not necessarily fluently but enough...other than visiting Poland again and getting by, I really do have a lot of Polish friends here. Whilst they all of course speak excellent English I'd like to be able to communicate/understand conversations in their own language too. Not to be the 'cool' guy, just to be a nice guy really and be able to do something I've always struggled with.

I think I'm gonna enrol in some one to one tuition from a qualified teacher, seems the best starting point (along with consuming more media).

Keep it up! Play The Witcher 3 in PL version.

I can't tell you how to learn polish because this is my native language, it's hard for foreigners (even many Poles are bad in it) but not impossible:

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

You basically want to git gud at Dark Souls after years of playing games on "I'm just here for the story" difficulty. Polish is hard.
What's harder in Europe, maybe Hungarian and Finnish?

The good thing about being English is that most of Europe can speak your language competently, except Italians (most of whom don't see the point) and Frenchies (most of whom can, but they'll be dead before they give you that satisfaction).

A problem with languages, and with learning in general, is that as you age, you've become accustomed to communicating in a certain way and you try to cut corners everywhere you can. You've learned that delivering a message is possible even if it's not impeccable on a formal level. With this mentality, it's hard to learn the rules and the intricacies of another language. After all, each of us tries to simplify their language more and more as they master the basics. We all abbreviate names, disregard verb tenses, use slang for stuff that has a perfectly usable name, etc etc.

 

[AJUMP23]

You have to practice. You can do it.

I only worry about the language of the world, English.

 

[Sand Dan Glokta]

Hello! I speak four languages fluently, and am good enough with a fifth to get by in daily life without issues.

Here's the trick: There is no real shortcut--not in the beginning at least. You need to write up/translate the most important sentences that you might need, and their typical responses, then you need to memorize each and everyone of them in all four language skills: Reading, Writing, Speaking and Listening. You have to practice frequently and over a long period for the new language to settle into your mind. You can do it by talking to your self and writing/reading exercises to yourself. Never mind the grammar part for the first few hundred words/sentences you learn; you'll start picking it up naturally eventually, and when something confuses you then look up the grammar of that sentence specifically, that way you'll comprehend something with context, making it stick more.

Also don't be afraid to sound silly or even stupid. You're a foreigner, you're not supposed to sound fluent. Just roll with it.

 

[nush]

Also don't be afraid to sound silly or even stupid. You're a foreigner, you're not supposed to sound fluent. Just roll with it.

To get over this I remember hearing that foreigners actually always appreciate you at least trying. Makes a big difference.

 

[Nydius]

This is a timely thread, personally, because I've been pondering the same. Ich habe in der oberschule drei Jahre lang Deutsch gelernt, and that's about all I remember from 30+ years ago (that and some swear words and phrases). Why did I take German? Because all the Spanish classes were full, Latin seemed pointless, and I didn't want to take French - those were the only four options available. But it was a dumb move because there was no German community where I lived at the time so the only time I got to practice or use it was within the classroom itself.

Now I'm really interested in learning Spanish but I'm struggling. I haven't found apps like Duolingo to be particularly helpful. I have an old ass disk version of Rosetta Stone Spanish (Latin American) modules 1-5 sitting around here somewhere but I also seem to have issues with retaining language that way as well. I would probably do well with textbook instruction but there's no community college nearby that teaches it.

 

[kpopSuperstar]

Forgot apps, they are useless, most internet resources is clickbait and counter intutive.

Active learning is the way to go. Look around your room, find things you see and use on a daily bssis, and write an easy short sentence about it, "I open the door", "This is a shelf", "I like that painting", "I need to brush my teeth", "I want to eat dinner".

Write down those sentences in polish under the english version, just use google translate or whatever, listen to the pronunciation. And then spend 5 to 10 minutes every day walking around your house, saying those sentences in polish out loud. Try to do it without looking at your sentence glossary each day, see what you can remember.

This worked for me at least, I spent 5 to 10 minutes each day after work. After 2-3 months you can speak many sentences, and you associate everyday items and activities with polish. Incorporate everyday words "need, want, ok, working, playing" etc.. into your sentences.

Most important is to learn in a way you enjoy, forcing yourself with apps is a good way to quit. You are not gonna stick with it if it's boring and forced, and in truth, language learning can be really boring, so I always do short sessions. But always do a little everyday, that's really the key. Take days off and it's gonna take way way way longer. "To consume a whale you have to take one bite at a time". Circle back each day and take another bite, and come summer you can speak basic polish gibberish.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

That's just one of my problems, I'm 53. I know as many Polish words/phrases as I do French and I was school age when I learnt that. I just have always struggled to retain it.

I'm Polish, it's a hard language to learn and even use. Don't worry, when I read articles online on Onet.pl I facepalm on all the typos and blatant English words transplanted into Polish (kooperacja kurwa że co?). Polish people are mostly pretty shit at Polish, same as me being fluent in French and understanding 50% of what is spoken on the street in Paris.

 

[StueyDuck]

The only way really to learn is to be dropped in the shit and forced to learn, youll be surprised how quick you can pick it up when you have to.

Thats why this "its been 10 years and i still havent learnt the mother tongue" is absolute hogwash

 

[Days like these...]

You don't learn languages you acquire them. Spanish, English and very basic Russian (thanks to my ex). I know the Cyrillic alphabet and can read it but don't know what most things mean.

 

[ForAcademicPurposes]

You should watch your favorite movies in a different language. The ones that you know like the back of your hand.

 

[Bark]

You should watch your favorite movies in a different language. The ones that you know like the back of your hand.

That is pretty much how i learned English. Disney movies in the 90s were Greek dubbed here in Greece. so i just found the dvds of the ones i liked and put them in English, turned off the subtitles and listened to what they spoke. It also helped me learn Italian in the past 4 years and i am in my late 30s

 

[Ar¢tos]

Polish is not an easy language to learn and having English as a native language only makes it harder, since English is a very basic language (phonetics and grammar).
There isn't an (considerably) easier language similar to Polish (Czech is slightly easier, but learning it as a bridge to Polish would be a waste of time) you just have to keep trying to learn it.

 

[Topher]

I'm still on my first. These things take time

 

[Bojji]

I'm still on my first. These things take time

 

[Trilobit]

I grew up in Sweden with Finnish parents so I got those free and then learned English in school and online and from movies. I've been interested in learning Spanish too as I really enjoy the "shape" of it. I also find Spanish-speaking people (Spaniards and hispanics both) very enjoyable. They have a much more fun energy about them compared to Nordics, who almost always need alcohol to loosen up.

My advice is to keep at it and not give up. Try to remember why you want to learn Polish. That will help to keep the motivation alive even if it takes time. Perhaps you can also read some easier books aimed at younger people written in Polish. That way you can immerse yourself better.

 

[IDKFA]

So, I went to Poland for 10 days over Christmas, had a fantastic time. I know a (very) few basic phrases which I've picked up over the last few years from Polish friends etc but not much more than saying Good Afternoon, Thank you etc.

Since school, I was never any good at learning and retaining a second language (I'm British). French did not stick, German did not stick. I've tried Duolingo, I've sat and listened to my friends many conversations in Polish (and ran Google Translate at the same time), watched many Polish movies (with English subs) and other Polish tv programmes and...I still suck!

Even when I was there, I would have the phrases ready in my head and when it came to the moment, half the time they'd disappear in a cloud of embarrassed, shy silence!

Is there anyway, as an old fart of a man I can improve this situation...quickly, or at least quicker!?

I'm looking to visit Krakow and/or Warsaw in the summer and I'd like to be better prepared!

Some people I know seem to pick up a 2nd language (or 3rd, 4th) easily, how are their brains working differently to mine!?

Admittedly, Polish is a bloody difficult language to learn Help me 2nd language expert GAF!

Hi.

I'm English and speak fluent Polish, but I only learned because my wife is Polish because as you said, it's very, very hard.

Anyway, I'd probably suggest learning an easier language first. Something like French, Italian or German. Both my wife and I speak Italian and we both agree it's an easy language to start with.

However, if you must learn Polish then I'd recommend first learning the 100 most spoken words. Don't worry about grammar or pronunciation yet because that'll put you off. Just focus on the top 100 words.

Then immerse yourself in the language. It's so easy these days to this. You can listen to Polish radio, watch Polish shows/films on Netflix with English subtitles, play games in Polish with English subs (Witcher 3 is great in Polish)

Once you feel comfortable with the language, then start stringing sentences together and learning the grammar rules.

It really helps if you have somebody to talk to in Polish. Maybe a friend you met in Poland for example. Don't worry about butchering the language to start off with. It's all about practice. Lots of practice.

You can use apps like Duolingo if you want, but don't expect to learn to speak a language through them. Those apps are okay to just supplement your learning, but don't base your learning just on a app.

Wszystkiego najlepszego!

 

[Brakum]

Exposure.

I speak 5 languages fluently, guess how many i actually studied? Zero

I can speak another language, not fluently, but i understand it quite well, but i dont talk well, THAT one was the only one i studied with no additional exposure.

I just grew in to it. I'm portuguese but live in switzerland and always have. So portuguese is my native tongue but we didnt have portuguese tv as a kid, and my parents didnt speak german so they would watch italian tv which is pretty easy to pick up if you speak portuguese, so i grew up learning italian by watching tv. Then i went to school and obviously had to learn german, yeah i studied it i guess but im not counting it, by the time we had german classes i already knew german from 2 years of kindergarden, i wasn't having german classes to learn how to speak german, i was having german classes for the same reason the swiss kids did, to learn grammar and shit, basically the stuff i couldn't tell you know how it works anyway, just know it intuitively. I picked up english through video games and other media later on, which is pretty easy if you speak romance languages and german on top of it, every english word has roots in a word you already know from another language. And then there is spanish which shares 95% of it's vocabulary with portuguese, but by working 15 years with spanish, argentinian and guatemalan people, i became fluent in it too, but yeah that one was barely an effort, i understood the language by default, just had to pick up the few words that are different.

And since well.. switzerland, i speak the local dialect too.

 

[kevboard]

to learn it you have to be constantly surrounded by it.
I only started speaking decent English once I constantly went on English forums and websites, and played games online with people chatting in English.

I had English in school for 5 years before that and barely was able to hold a simple conversation from what I learned in those classes, even tho I had a perfect score in nearly every test.
so just "learning" it from time to time without actually using the language is almost impossible.

my brother who went through basically the same English classes in school as I have, but isn't really on English websites or forums, and doesn't use English almost ever, can barely understand basic sentences in English, and nothing past that...

 

[AJUMP23]

Mod please change thread title to "I'm useless".

 

[pachura]

One of the first words you usually learn when taking up a new language is "hello"/"hi" - and in Polish it's almost impossible to pronounce correctly for a foreigner, as you have to make three different hissy sounds. "Cześć" -> something like "tsheshch"

Still, nothing compared to tonal languages (e.g. Vietnamese) where extremely subtle tone changes could transform one word into 8 completely different ones...

 

[Tams]

I'm also British and it's partly the bane of English being the lingua franca and so much of media being in English.

It means there's much less incentive to learn another language, less material to learn from that may interest you, and fewer people to practice with.

This all culminates in many of us Brits not being exposed to another language at young ages. If you are, you tend to pick up other languages more readily.

At the end of the day, as others have said, it's about using it.

I've forgotten all my French and Latin, and suck at Spanish and German.

Even after over a decade, I'm still at a low conversational level of Japanese.

 

[Nydius]

I'm still on my first. These things take time

Topher is Corbin Dallas, confirmed .