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[JohnnyFootball]

I've been in the category of considering Intel not just down, but likely OUT of being a serious competitor.

Turns out that my thinking might have been premature.

AMD has put little effort into making their handheld chips better and gave Intel a wide opening. Not to mention not using RDNA might end up coming back to haunt them.

AMD needs to start feeling some pressure. FSR4 still being poorly implemented and NOT AVAILABLE ON VULKAN. Redstone being lackluster.

AMD is starting to act like they're nvidia. Right now AMD is the nice guy who finally got some love from the ladies, but is now behaving like their the ladies man.

Panther Lake handheld thoroughly curbstomped the Z2 Extreme. In some games with 30-50% more performance at the same TDP.

Leonidas can come out of hiding.

Well done Intel...now what's the price?

 

[rodrigolfp]

Are Intel video drivers good now??

 

[Magic Carpet]

These have decent integrated graphics? I'll have to watch this if so.

 

[kevboard]

AMD refusing to use RDNA4 in their mobile chips is giving Intel a huge advantage.

but, I would still be worried about game compatibility on Intel tbh. not sure how good their current drivers are.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Amd is focused on Rdna 5 and next gen consoles. Thats when their advancements will hit the market.

But pretty happy about panther lake. Likely their upscaling is pretty good as well.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Are Intel video drivers good now??

They are ok, and XeSS implementation on the hardware level is very good and gives you extra juice. The problem is many more games use FSR, and also there are some artifacts in some games when running on Intel chips, although that is mostly getting patched. Still AMD gives you better compatibility.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

These have decent integrated graphics? I'll have to watch this if so.

Beats apple M5 in battery life while offering similar performance, if I remember correctly.

Should be good in a handheld.

 

[BennyBlanco]

Yeah that MSI handheld is certainly interesting. If it gets really cheap ill get one.

 

[TrebleShot]

If its anything like the MSI 8AI+ it will wipe the floor with the rest. Lunar Lake is better than Z2E ai even now after the drivers were updated a few times.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Yeah that MSI handheld is certainly interesting. If it gets really cheap ill get one.

It has 32GB of RAM so…

 

[OverHeat]

Leonidas lol

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Leonidas lol

He's been MIA lately. This is definitely a reason for him to speak.

 

[simpatico]

I'm long af on Intel right now. Been on sale for a while now.

 

[Zathalus]

I got myself the MSI Claw 8 AI+ over Christmas. Absolutely fantastic handheld. The performance matches the Z2E but runs quieter, performance better at lower wattages, has the XMX version of XeSS, and slightly better RT performance. Heck it outperforms my Switch 2 in docked mode. And it still has good battery life on top of all that.

And that was the previous generation, a Panther Lake handheld would be impressive, although RAM prices will make the pricing silly.

 

[The Mad Draklor]

He's been MIA lately. This is definitely a reason for him to speak.

I guess it's not CPU-related enough for him to come back lol.

But in all seriousness, Intel deserves props for offering good iGPU performance.

 

[LavitzSlambert]

Is it that AMD is asleep at the wheel, or that their success is tied 100% to Jim Keller's contributions and they have fuck all on the CPU front after his initial Zen design and pipeline?

 

[SpokkX]

hope valve looks at this for steam deck 2,...

 

[Magic Carpet]

hope valve looks at this for steam deck 2,...

I don't think this is it. Watching Horizon Forbidden West tank performance.
Maybe the next, next chip.

 

[SpokkX]

Oh damn… AMD sadly has mostly bad choices for Steam 2 - AMD needs RDNA 4 in their mobile chips with actual not shitty upscaling

 

[vaibhavpisal]

hope valve looks at this for steam deck 2,...

Can they use this?

I think they use linux, and have to stick with amd cause their drivers are good for that.

 

[simpatico]

Is it that AMD is asleep at the wheel, or that their success is tied 100% to Jim Keller's contributions and they have fuck all on the CPU front after his initial Zen design and pipeline?

That's kinda how the chip world goes. Look at how long intel looked like stable geniuses off Sandy Bridge and it's million revisions.

 

[wipeout364]

AMD has a knack of seizing defeat from the jaws of victory.

 

[Xion_Stellar]

AMD refusing to use RDNA4 in their mobile chips is giving Intel a huge advantage.

but, I would still be worried about game compatibility on Intel tbh. not sure how good their current drivers are.

Amd is focused on Rdna 5 and next gen consoles. Thats when their advancements will hit the market.

But pretty happy about panther lake. Likely their upscaling is pretty good as well.

Oh damn… AMD sadly has mostly bad choices for Steam 2 - AMD needs RDNA 4 in their mobile chips with actual not shitty upscaling

Unfortunately the recent AMD leaks confirm that AMD intents to keep RDNA 3.5 until 2029 and even then in when they release the RDNA 5 APUs they are going to exclusively reserve them towards their "Premium APUs" so those chips are going to go towards Handheld PCs that will cost $1200+ on release

This is probably why Sony came up with their own Dynamic Technology because that PlayStation Handheld that's coming out in 2027 is still going to be RDNA 3.5

 

[paolo11]

Isn't the AMD Ryzen Strix Halo 395 run faster than Panther Lake (per Digital Foundry video)?

 

[Topher]

Handhelds vs a laptop? Thermals obviously favor the laptop.

 

[hardwood007]

Yeah that MSI handheld is certainly interesting. If it gets really cheap ill get one.

It's a shame out of all the mainstream handheld makers, only MSI seems to put out handhelds with intel. I hope with Panther Lake and upcoming Nova lake, more manufacturers go with intel.

AMD is sleeping at the wheel

 

[hardwood007]

Unfortunately the recent AMD leaks confirm that AMD intents to keep RDNA 3.5 until 2029 and even then in when they release the RDNA 5 APUs they are going to exclusively reserve them towards their "Premium APUs" so those chips are going to go towards Handheld PCs that will cost $1200+ on release

This is probably why Sony came up with their own Dynamic Technology because that PlayStation Handheld that's coming out in 2027 is still going to be RDNA 3.5

Ps6 handheld confirmed to be rdna5/udna per Kepler

 

[Xion_Stellar]

Ps6 handheld confirmed to be rdna5/udna per Kepler

WTF? So AMD is giving Sony an exception but the rest of the consumer base has to wait another 3 years?

Intel is going to eat AMD's lunch in the PC Handheld space at this rate.

 

[yet_another_alt]

Isn't the AMD Ryzen Strix Halo 395 run faster than Panther Lake (per Digital Foundry video)?

Those are really, really expensive.

WTF? So AMD is giving Sony an exception but the rest of the consumer base has to wait another 3 years?

Intel is going to eat AMD's lunch in the PC Handheld space at this rate.

Judging by the Portal sales, it might be a wise decision. I'm still in disbelief at how many people actually seem happy with it.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

When prices are sub 1k comfortably and Linux support is there, I'll give one of the handhelds serious consideration.

 

[Xion_Stellar]

Those are really, really expensive.

Not to mention those are on paper stats realistically nobody with a GPD Win 5 is actively pushing over 4Ow to the APU their battery would last less than 2 hours if they do that.

Judging by the Portal sales, it might be a wise decision. I'm still in disbelief at how many people actually seem happy with it.

I don't have any particular dislike towards Intel themselves but I don't like Windows 11 on PC Handhelds and unfortunately Bazzite isn't compatible with Intel chips out of the box so mid range handhelds moving towards Intel chips isn't all sunshine and rainbows in my opinion.

 

[Gitaroo]

I thought AMD is also lunching new APU with RDNA5, they are going to have a low end RDNA 3.5 line up and high end RDNA5. If RDNA 3.5 support int 8 for FSR4 and other ML task, I don't think it is too bad.

 

[hardwood007]

WTF? So AMD is giving Sony an exception but the rest of the consumer base has to wait another 3 years?

Intel is going to eat AMD's lunch in the PC Handheld space at this rate.

Yeah, think I saw him say that the next gen AMD chip that AMD will put out for pc handhelds is Medusa point or Medusa premium with rdna 5, in 2028/2029. And that's also a big maybe.

I might be wrong on above, my memory isn't perfect.

 

[Shogmaster]

Only saving grace for AMD is that Panther Lakes with B390 are not cheap. That X9 388H laptop would be over $2000. That's Strix Halo 385 32GB territory.

The handheld version will not have 16 CPU Cores (4P, 8E, 4LP) and 12 Xe³ GPU cores as in X9 388H. If I had to guess, the handheld APU would be something like 2P, 4E, 2LP CPU and 10 Xe³ GPU (a.k.a. B370), but Z2E would prolly still come in slightly cheaper.

AMD is prolly anxiously betting that handheld Panther Lake APU won't hit until 3Q and about 9 month later they would have Madusa Halo Mini ready to ship in PC handhelds. Madusa Halo Mini is rumored as 14 Zen 6 CPU cores (4x Z6, 8x Z6c, 2x Z6 LP) and 24 CU RDNA 5 GPU on 128 bit bus. That should be in similar zipcode to Strix Halo 385 in raster and much better in RT.

 

[hardwood007]

Only saving grace for AMD is that Panther Lakes with B390 are not cheap. That X9 388H laptop would be over $2000. That's Strix Halo 385 32GB territory.

The handheld version will not have 16 CPU Cores (4P, 8E, 4LP) and 12 Xe³ GPU cores as in X9 388H. If I had to guess, the handheld APU would be something like 2P, 4E, 2LP CPU and 10 Xe³ GPU (a.k.a. B370), but Z2E would prolly still come in slightly cheaper.

AMD is prolly anxiously betting that handheld Panther Lake APU won't hit until 3Q and about 9 month later they would have Madusa Halo Mini ready to ship in PC handhelds. Madusa Halo Mini is rumored as 14 Zen 6 CPU cores (4x Z6, 8x Z6c, 2x Z6 LP) and 24 CU RDNA 5 GPU on 128 bit bus. That should be in similar zipcode to Strix Halo 385 in raster and much better in RT.

That Medusa Halo mini chip still has too many cpu cores if they are gonna put it in a handheld. That many cpu cores eats up power that could be used by the gpu

That is also why you see the Z1E and Z2E not being as efficient as the Van gough in the steam deck, those chips have too many cpu cores, because they are repurposed laptop chips.

We really need something that's custom tailored to handhelds.

 

[Shogmaster]

That Medusa Halo mini chip still has too many cpu cores if they are gonna put it in a handheld. That many cpu cores eats up power that could be used by the gpu

That is also why you see the Z1E and Z2E not being as efficient as the Van gough in the steam deck, those chips have too many cpu cores, because they are repurposed laptop chips.

We really need something that's custom tailored to handhelds.

Believe it or not, Strix Halo does pretty good job at gating CPU cores. Testing by Phawx showed not much difference between 16 core 395 and 8 core 385 in CPU draw because 395 gated 8 cores when not needed. I can see Madusa Halo getting more granular with gating CPU core fir even more efficiency.

And I suppose AMD can keep the Z line going with RDNA 5 by taking the 24 CU AT4 chiplet and marrying that to 8 core Zen 6 chiplet (3+5 like Z2E). Z3E I guess. The key is the AT4 chiplet in any case. That will be ready by Q3 2027 for sure if not sooner.

 

[KeplerL2]

Unfortunately the recent AMD leaks confirm that AMD intents to keep RDNA 3.5 until 2029 and even then in when they release the RDNA 5 APUs they are going to exclusively reserve them towards their "Premium APUs" so those chips are going to go towards Handheld PCs that will cost $1200+ on release

This is probably why Sony came up with their own Dynamic Technology because that PlayStation Handheld that's coming out in 2027 is still going to be RDNA 3.5

PS Handheld is RDNA5

Judging by the Portal sales, it might be a wise decision. I'm still in disbelief at how many people actually seem happy with it.

Yeah seems to be a success, they're even doing another version this year

Only saving grace for AMD is that Panther Lakes with B390 are not cheap. That X9 388H laptop would be over $2000. That's Strix Halo 385 32GB territory.

The handheld version will not have 16 CPU Cores (4P, 8E, 4LP) and 12 Xe³ GPU cores as in X9 388H. If I had to guess, the handheld APU would be something like 2P, 4E, 2LP CPU and 10 Xe³ GPU (a.k.a. B370), but Z2E would prolly still come in slightly cheaper.

AMD is prolly anxiously betting that handheld Panther Lake APU won't hit until 3Q and about 9 month later they would have Madusa Halo Mini ready to ship in PC handhelds. Madusa Halo Mini is rumored as 14 Zen 6 CPU cores (4x Z6, 8x Z6c, 2x Z6 LP) and 24 CU RDNA 5 GPU on 128 bit bus. That should be in similar zipcode to Strix Halo 385 in raster and much better in RT.

Medusa Premium is more aimed at laptops than handhelds, it's also gonna be quite pricey relative to Z1/Z2 lineup.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Intel on the comeback story of a generation!

 

[Soodanim]

Reminder: RDNA 3 can enable FSR4 on Linux through certain Proton builds. The potential is there, it just isn't fully realised for one reason or another.

 

[hardwood007]

I got myself the MSI Claw 8 AI+ over Christmas. Absolutely fantastic handheld. The performance matches the Z2E but runs quieter, performance better at lower wattages, has the XMX version of XeSS, and slightly better RT performance. Heck it outperforms my Switch 2 in docked mode. And it still has good battery life on top of all that.

And that was the previous generation, a Panther Lake handheld would be impressive, although RAM prices will make the pricing silly.

Any compatibility issues? Considering getting a used Claw.

When you say performs better at lower wattages, what wattage range are you talking about?

Have a legion go 2 right now, not really happy about the thermals, fan noise and battery life

 

[hardwood007]

PS Handheld is RDNA5

Yeah seems to be a success, they're even doing another version this year

Medusa Premium is more aimed at laptops than handhelds, it's also gonna be quite pricey relative to Z1/Z2 lineup.

Is Valve still planning a successor to Steam Deck? What APU can they realistically use?

 

[Puscifer]

I've been in the category of considering Intel not just down, but likely OUT of being a serious competitor.

Turns out that my thinking might have been premature.

AMD has put little effort into making their handheld chips better and gave Intel a wide opening. Not to mention not using RDNA might end up coming back to haunt them.

AMD needs to start feeling some pressure. FSR4 still being poorly implemented and NOT AVAILABLE ON VULKAN. Redstone being lackluster.

AMD is starting to act like they're nvidia. Right now AMD is the nice guy who finally got some love from the ladies, but is now behaving like their the ladies man.

Panther Lake handheld thoroughly curbstomped the Z2 Extreme. In some games with 30-50% more performance at the same TDP.

Leonidas can come out of hiding.

Well done Intel...now what's the price?

Ryzen AI Max though? Intel finally caught up and I'm proud of them after getting curb stomped for nearly 10 years.

 

[Zathalus]

Any compatibility issues? Considering getting a used Claw.

When you say performs better at lower wattages, what wattage range are you talking about?

Have a legion go 2 right now, not really happy about the thermals, fan noise and battery life

Dropping to 15w and even 8w, and it beats the Z2E. Gaming at 15w is surprisingly fine for a huge amount of titles, and gives you a correspondingly big boost to battery life.

As for compatibility, some AAA titles I've tested:

Cyberpunk 2077
Hogwarts Legacy
Star Wars Outlaws (very heavy this one, need to use frame gen)
AC Shadows
Starfield
Elden Ring
BG3

All work fine. Cyberpunk 2077 is a revelation coming from the Steam Deck.

Tons of indies I've tested work fine as well. Intel has been really proactive with drivers these days. For handhelds and budget gaming, I would have no issues recommending them. Only issue is you need to stick to Windows. But with the fingerprint sensor, logging on is as simple as touching the power button. It's not that bad, especially with Xbox Full screen, or Steam Big Picture.

 

[dgrdsv]

Fighting for scraps.

 

[mrMUR_96]

Is it that AMD is asleep at the wheel, or that their success is tied 100% to Jim Keller's contributions and they have fuck all on the CPU front after his initial Zen design and pipeline?

CPU advancements are still decent for AMD, it's their gpu architecture that's more of an issue imo. Especially as they're staying on older generations for so long on the mobile platforms.

 

[winjer]

AMD refusing to use RDNA4 in their mobile chips is giving Intel a huge advantage.

but, I would still be worried about game compatibility on Intel tbh. not sure how good their current drivers are.

Now consider that RDNA4 was released a year ago, we still have no APUs with it.
And AMD is still planning APUs with RDNA 3.5. All the while they have abandoned RDNA3, giving it no support for AI applications and no support for FSR4.
Who ever is in charge of the Radeon group is a complete moron.
While AMD is delivering the best gaming CPUs and chipsets on PC, the Radeon group is constantly screwing up.
Even when they finally manage to get a good GPU architecture out, they somehow manage to fuck up.

 

[KeplerL2]

Now consider that RDNA4 was released a year ago, we still have no APUs with it.
And AMD is still planning APUs with RDNA 3.5. All the while they have abandoned RDNA3, giving it no support for AI applications and no support for FSR4.
Who ever is in charge of the Radeon group is a complete moron.
While AMD is delivering the best gaming CPUs and chipsets on PC, the Radeon group is constantly screwing up.
Even when they finally manage to get a good GPU architecture out, they somehow manage to fuck up.

Blame Lisa for giving Radeon group a shoestring budget

 

[winjer]

Blame Lisa for giving Radeon group a shoestring budget

Partly true. The Radeon Group has also made a ton of stupid mistakes, especially the marketing department.

 

[KungFucius]

WTF? So AMD is giving Sony an exception but the rest of the consumer base has to wait another 3 years?

Intel is going to eat AMD's lunch in the PC Handheld space at this rate.

Huh? PlayStation sell 10s of millions of units per year and collaborate on design. The other handheld PCs might have sold that much total since the Steam Deck launched and are basically asking for something off the shelf. Why wouldn't AMD do what Sony asks for when they will buy at least 5x of the same chips for 7+ years?

 

[KeplerL2]

Partly true. The Radeon Group has also made a ton of stupid mistakes, especially the marketing department.

AMD in general has terrible marketing. But not porting RDNA4 to APUs, using RDNA 3.5 for 5 years and the slow progress on software features all fall on Lisa.