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🏈 NFL 2025
- Thread starter 12Goblins
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Nydius
Gold Member
I couldn't stand the Patriots during their dominance, but not putting Belichick in on first ballot is insane. I dislike the whole "carried by Brady!" argument because we could make that argument for so many coaches.
Was Chuck Noll carried by Bradshaw? After all, Noll won four Super Bowls with Bradshaw, then didn't win another. Noll's record with Bradshaw: 113-65-1. Without Bradshaw? 80-83-1.
Like Bradshaw, Brady wasn't the only guy on the team. Mel Blount and the Steel Curtain helped lead Noll to four championships; Belichick had guys like Tedy Bruschi, Vince Wilfork, Matt Light, and Devin McCourty on the defensive side of the ball.
If Noll was a first ballot HOF coach, Belichick damn well is too. And I say that as someone who can't stand the man.
Was Chuck Noll carried by Bradshaw? After all, Noll won four Super Bowls with Bradshaw, then didn't win another. Noll's record with Bradshaw: 113-65-1. Without Bradshaw? 80-83-1.
Like Bradshaw, Brady wasn't the only guy on the team. Mel Blount and the Steel Curtain helped lead Noll to four championships; Belichick had guys like Tedy Bruschi, Vince Wilfork, Matt Light, and Devin McCourty on the defensive side of the ball.
If Noll was a first ballot HOF coach, Belichick damn well is too. And I say that as someone who can't stand the man.
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Gekikara
Neo Member
This has got to be about either a) residual salt from Spygate/Deflategate or b) goofy Polian getting his revenge by influencing the other voters Palpatine-style. Maybe a combination of both. It's ridiculous either way.
And I don't buy the whole "it was all Brady" theory. The first half of the Pats' SB wins was mostly about their defense and ST. As coach and de facto GM of those teams BB should get extra credit imo.
And I don't buy the whole "it was all Brady" theory. The first half of the Pats' SB wins was mostly about their defense and ST. As coach and de facto GM of those teams BB should get extra credit imo.
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
I will lead off saying I think he should be in
That said are we having this conversation if he didn't have Brady
When you look at his numbers with and without Brady they don't scream HOF
Smiggs
Gold Member
He also won 11 games in 2008 with Matt Cassel. That was no easy feat.I will lead off saying I think he should be in
That said are we having this conversation if he didn't have Brady
When you look at his numbers with and without Brady they don't scream HOF
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
As a diehard Colts fan as well, it pains me to say he deserves to be in, just don't know we have this conversation if Drew Bledsoe doesn't almost die on the field
Smiggs
Gold Member
I hear you man, I was a professional Pats hater for years and years. And you're right, it would be very interesting to see what would have happened if Bledsoe hadn't gone down that year.
Gekikara
Neo Member
You're not wrong, his Cleveland stint wasn't great and he horribly fumbled his roster decisions in NE at the end, too. All of that definitely takes some shine off his resume. But there's also his time with the Giants to consider, though again some will probably just point to LT first.
I just think he deserves way more credit for his success WITH Brady than he's been getting recently, especially after Brady won one with the Bucs.
I rooted against the Pats during his entire tenure and always hated how smart and well-coached they were as a team, particularly in the playoffs. Come on man, you're a Colts fan, right? Do you remember Brady stomping your team in the 04 playoffs or was it the Pats defense and running game? 2 years in a row actually. Not to take anything away from Brady, he's the obvious GOAT. But he definitely had the luxury of rarely ever being buried by the rest of his team, unlike many other great QBs. And I attribute much of that to Belichick.
Boo Who?
Gold Member
Cleveland going to continue to be Cleveland.
AJUMP23
Parody of actual AJUMP23
I will lead off saying I think he should be in
That said are we having this conversation if he didn't have Brady
Do you think Phil Jackson would be as successful without Jordan? He then leaves after Jordan and finds Kobe and Shaq. I think he knew how to manage egos. Bellichick seemed to know how to record the other team and plan accordingly. He won and was he did it a lot. He also knew when to trade a player and bring in a player. He knew what he had with Brady and built the team around him so that Brady was able to succeed. I don't know that Miami ever gave Marino a good RB or a great line to play behind.
He is a first ballot HoF by any measure of stats. Kind of crazy he didn't get it. I think it has to do with the Girlfriend, I also think him coaching in NC will hurt his overall reputation. There also seemed to be some fallout with he a Kraft they may have hurt.
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
I agree he should be in, I just posed the question would we be having this conversation without him having Brady
As far as Phil Jackson goes, yes he inherited great players as well but if memory serves me correctly he inherited those players because previous coaches couldn't win the chip with them and he did
AJUMP23
Parody of actual AJUMP23
I think that brings up the same question. Did Brady and Belicheck make each other great or would they have been great without each other. I think Jordan is great no matter what, but 6 rings and the elevation of everyone around him without Jackson, probably not. I think the same with Brady, he had the drive to be great, but without the management of Bill probably not as many superbowls. In team sports no athlete is really an island. The relationship worked and I think if you asked either of them they will contribute their success to what was around them.
Here is my joke:
People that know nothing about pro sports shouldn't talk about it. Especially
HeisenbergFX4
. I have watched enough sports to know what I am talking about.
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
Oh I am in noy way trying to dispute anything, just bringing up random thoughtsI think that brings up the same question. Did Brady and Belicheck make each other great or would they have been great without each other. I think Jordan is great no matter what, but 6 rings and the elevation of everyone around him without Jackson, probably not. I think the same with Brady, he had the drive to be great, but without the management of Bill probably not as many superbowls. In team sports no athlete is really an island. The relationship worked and I think if you asked either of them they will contribute their success to what was around them.
Here is my joke:
People that know nothing about pro sports shouldn't talk about it. Especially
Like staying in my wheelhouse, lets take someone like Joe Torre who I know extremely well and admire greatly.
Is he a great coach or just manage great teams with the Yankees
His record breakdown before and after getting the Yankees gig
- New York Mets (1977–1981): 286–420 (.405)
- Atlanta Braves (1982–1984): 244–241 (.503)
- St. Louis Cardinals (1990–1995): 351–354 (.498)
- Los Angeles Dodgers (2008–2010): 259–227 (.533)
Yet many consider him a great coach and he was mere mediocre without the Yankees
AJUMP23
Parody of actual AJUMP23
I appreciate your contrary nature.
What were the values of those Rosters. And Stienbrenner hiring someone always seemed to know what he was doing.
I guess what you need to ask is do you have a team that needs a great coach or strategist, or do you have a team that needs a great manager executive. Does your team need encouragement or discipline.
I mean UF hired Charlie Wies from the Patriots as an OC and we thought we were going to be amazing because he was sold as the guy that made Brady. turns out it was Brady that made him because our offense Sucked and we made jokes because he sat on a cooler and not the bench because of his size. But his Son seems to be great at Offense at LSU now and just was the OC at Ol Miss.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
Bills went from the greatest red headed coach in sports history to a red head with chin strap facial hair. We used to be a society...
At least the Sabres are unbeatable now!
At least the Sabres are unbeatable now!
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reinking
Gold Member
touchfuzzy
Gold Member
We often hear about the coaching change bump, but Sabres might be the first team in history to have turn things around immediately when a GM gets replaced (like, before the new GM even does anything). Absolutely bizarre. Enjoying the ride though!
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
My whole family is now like "Should we start watching the Sabres?" We haven't watched them since Brett Hull cheated us in The Finals. Crazy story with how good they've been.
Nydius
Gold Member
Hey Oklahoma City… want to keep collecting Seattle's sports franchises like Pokémon?
Seattle SuperSonics -> Oklahoma City Thunder
Seattle Seahawks -> Oklahoma City Scissortails
Let's do it!
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
Boo Who?
Gold Member
The LeFleur family is destroying the NFL from the inside. Two organizations now toast.