Solarstrike
Member
Half the fukcing USA is in a deep freeze. Ain't nobody taking the Switch 2 anywhere but the sh!tter and to bed
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[Polygon] Final Fantasy 7 Remake director says porting to ‘lower-end’ Switch 2 is a challenge (Many publishers struggling to get games to run well)
- Thread starter memoryman3
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Half the fukcing USA is in a deep freeze. Ain't nobody taking the Switch 2 anywhere but the sh!tter and to bed
I don't think it's bandwidth related:
"Compared to the first title, the world map is a lot larger, so there is no doubt that it's a more challenging production process"
the world map wouldn't be constrained by memory bandwidth. It is either memory size or game size related. Judging by the Y:K3 screenshots I'm going to guess game size as studios try to push asset reuse.
LordCBH
Member
To be fair, Elden Ring runs like trash on almost everything.
And Borderlands 4 runs on Unreal Trash 5, which also runs like absolute garbage on almost everything.
videogamedude
Member
ladies and gentlemen, meet your new target platform
asdasdasdbb
Member
Late? It's just getting started.
Robb
Gold Member
NextBox/Ps6 are rumored to be out in ~1-2 years, so I wouldn't say Ps5/XBS are just getting started.
asdasdasdbb
Member
But the generation is.
mayham2199
Member
People with no game dev experience love shitting on experts. Remember all the people shitting on devs who dared speak up about the series s?
Robb
Gold Member
Depends on what you mean I guess. My point is that Switch 2 is getting new games released by the end of these systems lifespan. Which I personally didn't expect.
With the Switch you'd get something like RE9 released on all other platforms and then maybe a Switch port a year later. And you'd be lucky if it wasn't a shitty cloud version.
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videogamedude
Member
sony are still begging users to upgrade from ps4
not sure what difference a handful of ps6 are going to make
Robb
Gold Member
I'm just thinking that, assuming it's a major step up in hardware capabilities compared to Ps5, porting games to Switch 2 will only become more difficult. Just like how Switch could handle a lot of PS4 ports, but not Ps5.
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videogamedude
Member
imo companies may target high adoption S2, playstation gets performance 60fps mode, and PC hobbyists mod pathtracing in to everything... everyone is happy
i dunno how another low adoption rate machine is going to influence a company one way or the other
CentralScrutinizer
Banned
Us Nintendo fans and Switch gamers knew exactly what to expect from Switch 2 and what it'd be capable of. We aren't surprised by FF7R's performance and won't be surprised by Rebirth. It's the concern trolls that spread the fud.
Robb
Gold Member
That could be the case, games are definitely more scaleable than ever and there seems to be quite a lot of support studios today that specialize on specifically creating lower-end versions of major titles.
Will be interesting to see how it goes.
memoryman3
Member
RE9 is a game that could work on the PS4 and Xbox One. A PS4 release was rumored at some point.
Robb
Gold Member
But it's not on PS4. Either way, 007 First Light and Pragmata are day and date as well. And we've already seen stuff like StarWars Outlaws etc. Take your pick.
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LordOcidax
Member
The same people in every thread… This sh*t is not going to stop 
.
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LordOcidax
Member
What about SW Outlaws?
It really just depends how much work that the developers wants to put in. cronos removed all lumen from the switch 2 version and probably had a special low setting made for it. if ps4 and switch 2 were still moving software you bet there would be a version that used baked lighting.
CentralScrutinizer
Banned
Weaker than PS5 and XSX|S meaning it requires the most work and optimization to run it.
Thank you very much for the explanation.
CentralScrutinizer
Banned
You're welcome. This will be a narrative all generation regarding Switch 2. I fully expect most PS5 targeted games to be just like Hogwarts Legacy, Cyberpunk, and FF7R: 1080p 30fps with DLSS artifacts.
Games that target Switch 1 as a low end, such as DQ1-3 and 7, Octopath, and (most likely DQ12) will have higher expectations for performance on Switch 2 in comparison to games that skip Switch 1 all together.
LordOcidax
Member
Outlaws don't have backed lighting. The Lighting system of the game was built around RT, to make Outlaws run on PS4 they have to rebuild the whole game basically.
LordOcidax
Member
I still don't get what's news here… Obvious the Switch 2 is the low end of the spectrum of the actual consoles. What people expect to hear?
BlackTron
Member
It shouldn't be surprising that a game that ran like shit on PS5 needs attention to work on Switch's 2's 20 watt undocked profile.
I'm sure it would be much easier if the lowest denominator was docked, which triples the wattage and opens up much more processing power.
Yes, you have to make a portable profile with weaker graphics as a "development challenge"
I'm sure it would be much easier if the lowest denominator was docked, which triples the wattage and opens up much more processing power.
Yes, you have to make a portable profile with weaker graphics as a "development challenge"
There is nothing "low adoption" about the PS5 though. Just because there are 70M more PS4 users in addition to the 90M PS5s doesn't make the PS5 low adoption. If anything SW2 is the low adoption machine right now.
Switch 2 will have less influence on companies especially as third party sales of some of the biggest games are not Switch majority.
naw they would just have to add baked lighting instead of just turning RT on, not rebuild the whole game, basically what 99% of game do these days.
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LordOcidax
Member
asdasdasdbb
Member
The end of the PS5's lifespan is going to be like 2035.
Developers dumping the PS4/Bone has more to do with the platter drive (and perhaps lack of sales potential) than anything else.
I do think you will start seeing 30 fps only PS5/Series games once the next gen consoles out. Which those will be very tough if not impossible to put on Switch 2.
You also have to take into account that Rebirth is very large. I'm not sure if they think that will be a problem with the Switch 2's small space.
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kevboard
Member
Obviously you have zero ideas how things works
in the case of Outlaws it would probably actually work ok.
they already have a probe based fallback that is used for distant lighting (or not so distant in the case of the Series S and Switch 2)
would it look good? nope... but neither does it currently on Switch 2 with RT, so
LordOcidax
Member
If it was that easy than probably they would have taken that path, it's not that simple, is a open world game designed around RT, the amount of pre calculated data would take a lot of space and optimization. Also the RT on Outlaws SW2 looks really good considering the hardware, and something better than the Series S version due to more reflections.in the case of Outlaws it would probably actually work ok.
they already have a probe based fallback that is used for distant lighting (or not so distant in the case of the Series S and Switch 2)
would it look good? nope... but neither does it currently on Switch 2 with RT, so
kevboard
Member
the issue is that their current probe based system actually runs on the RT cores. that's the actual issue right there for porting it to PS4.
they do have a fully software based fallback for when you play it on a PC card with no RT acceleration, but it's probably not very fast.
there's no precalculated data, it's just GI probes like what Crytek's SVOGI does, just not as good looking, because it's low quality by design as it's only used for distant lights not close up ones.
I bet they could modify that tho if they really wanted.
and the game looks ok on Switch 2, but in many scenes the RT completely breaks apart due to how low the raycount is.
the differences in the reflections is simply a difference in the material settings. they probably overcorrected in the Series S version because they couldn't be bothered to actually optimise for it in a granual way.
the reflection resolution is far higher on Series S tho, due to the higher ray count.
LordOcidax
Member
You are giving me the reason then, to run on PS4 they have to pre calculate almost everything
. That would mean more work and they probably have to re do everything when it comes to lighting.
LordOcidax
Member
Some people just can't accept the fact that the Switch 2 can run games that the PS4 can't, when they predicted a console less powerful than the PS4. Sad that my crow serving thread was locked.
kevboard
Member
You are giving me the reason then, to run on PS4 they have to pre calculate almost everything
they wouldn't need to precalculate anything, they have a real-time probe based GI system. they simply didn't make it look good in its current form because it's not used for closup lighting.
they could probably modify it to be closer in quality to Cryengine's SVOGI, and thereby get an ok looking GI solution without any prebaking.
but they also could bake some of the more important lights in indoor areas as well. that's not a big deal to do, at least if their engine is somewhat decent (which it is, based on previous releases).
like in UE5 you can just use your Lumen setup to bake the lighting. meaning it will look exactly the way you saw it in the editor.
the guy who made the fan remake of Toy Story 2 in UE5 did that. he used Lumen before, but it looked bad and ran like ass, so in the last step he baked the Lumen GI, making the game look far better and I think increasing the framerate by like 3x~4x or something.
so if your GI is already set up the way the artists wanted it to be, baking it when needed shouldn't be an issue.
again, they wouldn't need to do it for every light in the game, just for the important indoor parts, and then just use their probe based GI for the rest of the game.
honestly, this is how I hope the rumored Expedition 33 port does it. that would honestly be amazing.
like, no joke, if they bake the GI in the Switch 2 port it could turn out to be the best version of the game
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videogamedude
Member
sure, hence my 60fps comment... i was referring to the low adoption rate of a new machine... whenever it's even released
There are many games skipping ps4 that are not technically demanding is its not surprising developers don't wanna do a difficult port. 2 of the biggest game franchises like dragonball and MK0 came on switch and skipped ps4. That argument is pretty weak.
As doe the RT the series has much higher resolution reflections everywhere so just cause switch 2 in a few more places doesn't make it better lol.
Not to mention the reflections are much higher resolution on series s so not sure how that looks better.
FoxMcChief
Gold Member
Words am hard.
LordOcidax
Member
You still giving me the reasonthey wouldn't need to precalculate anything, they have a real-time probe based GI system. they simply didn't make it look good in its current form because it's not used for closup lighting.
they could probably modify it to be closer in quality to Cryengine's SVOGI, and thereby get an ok looking GI solution without any prebaking.
but they also could bake some of the more important lights in indoor areas as well. that's not a big deal to do, at least if their engine is somewhat decent (which it is, based on previous releases).
like in UE5 you can just use your Lumen setup to bake the lighting. meaning it will look exactly the way you saw it in the editor.
the guy who made the fan remake of Toy Story 2 in UE5 did that. he used Lumen before, but it looked bad and ran like ass, so in the last step he baked the Lumen GI, making the game look far better and I think increasing the framerate by like 3x~4x or something.
so if your GI is already set up the way the artists wanted it to be, baking it when needed shouldn't be an issue.
again, they wouldn't need to do it for every light in the game, just for the important indoor parts, and then just use their probe based GI for the rest of the game.
honestly, this is how I hope the rumored Expedition 33 port does it. that would honestly be amazing.
like, no joke, if they bake the GI in the Switch 2 port it could turn out to be the best version of the game
. What do you think is more easy… Porting down a game from PS5 to Switch 2 or Porting down to PS4? Simple.Fake edit: Good look using Jaguar cores to calculate lighting in real time in a open world game and the HDD to stream assets.
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kevboard
Member
You still giving me the reason
it's of course easier to just lower the settings, as done on Switch 2.
but that doesn't mean they couldn't make an RT-less version if they wanted to.
they honestly should have done that already on Switch 2 if they cared about good visuals.
again, their engine can probably do that without much issue.
cramming raytracing onto low-end hardware instead of properly adapting the game is not a good thing actually.
if Expedition 33 for example releases on Switch 2 without baked GI and with realtime Lumen instead, it will look like complete dogshit, and it will run like ass.
just because the Switch 2 allows them to do it, doesn't mean they should. (although Lumen would of course also run on PS4 if they sacrifice enough fidelity as seen in the Switch 2 port of Layers of Fear, which is fully software based and insanely low quality)
LordOcidax
Member
I never said they can't… I said that it would take a lot of work and resources… Everything is posible with money. Still, i think that a PS4 version to look and runs good in the lighting department needs a complete rework and the use of a baked system (Which is not in place at this moment), and also the fact that the game relies on fast storage which is another problem for the PS4.
kevboard
Member
they absolutely have a system in place to bake the lighting they already set up. if they don't then they need to fire their engine devs.
the storage speed is probably a far bigger issue than the baking of the lighting.
but the fact that the game needs fast storage on its own is kinda laughable tho tbh.
LordOcidax
Member
Some players have turned off RT in PC and the game looks like shit… The game relies on RT to work properly. Like i said before, it needs a ton of work to look good without RT. Also i am pretty sure that real devs knows more than some random guys in a gaming forum about game development… Saying that is kinda laughable the use of fast storage is not smart.