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[mèx]

240 FPS.
The right combo of low resolution and CRT filter to look nostalgic enough.

Pure bliss.

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

They would never spend time and money to rewrite their engine just for us, europe the least important region for video games sales.

Yeah, Europe was far from a priority for Nintendo then.
It's really surprising how they course corrected and offered well-adapted 50Hz games and a bit later, 50/60Hz options for most of their games on GC, much earlier than Sony did with PS2 games. Metroid Prime 2 was 60Hz-only even in Europe, like Nintendo suddenly realized that was the way games were intended to be played.

The low frame rate just adds to the kind of dreamy soft focus atmosphere of the original.

Nobody I knew was particularly bothered at the time. It's not built around twitch gameplay.

A huge part of this is that Nintendo actually built the gameplay around the tech's limitations. Too many games, even today, are built around the concept of "fuck it, it should play like this even if the system can't keep up with what we want", so they play and feel bad because the frame rate can't keep up with the action and players' inputs.

On a CRT 20fps was much better than 20fps on LCD.

I still play it on my Trinitron and it's really better than say a 30fps game on LCD. Low resolution also helps.

And screen size. These games are still somewhat playable on a small LCD computer monitor, but I tried the NSO version of Majora's Mask on my 43" TV and I just can't. It's too jittery.

But I'm glad this thing exists: for the younger generations to be able to experience one of the best games ever as better as possible, and for the old dudes that never had an N64 or just never played it before.

I wonder how it feels to experience the textures in Jabu-Jabu's belly for the first time in glorious HD. It was an eyesore seeing them blurry as hell on a 20" CRT. In HD, it should come with warnings.

The N64 game was too low resolution, but 4k/60 is too high. The best way to play it is probably locked 30 at 720.

It would be interesting to see a comparison video with these two settings.
It's a bit strange to see the game run smoothly when it's associated with the original framerate in your memory.

 

[Breakfast at Noon]

What I find odd is the fact it actually seems fine in 20fps.. am I just too old now?

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

What I find odd is the fact it actually seems fine in 20fps.. am I just too old now?

It is, as long as it's in a small gif.
Blow it up on your daily gaming screen and it won't be fine at all.

 

[TintoConCasera]

It is, as long as it's in a small gif.
Blow it up on your daily gaming screen and it won't be fine at all.

Hard disagree there man. I played both OOT and MM on a N64 plugged to a big CRT not that long ago and I had a really good time.

What I find odd is the fact it actually seems fine in 20fps.. am I just too old now?

Games back then were designed with that in mind imo. It's like how in Goldeneye and Perfect Dark the enemies have those super long, drawn-out animations while aiming before firing their guns. They are slow games, no twitch reflexes or fast inputs required, and they feel nice to play.

 

[rodrigolfp]

Nintendo fans finally know what 60 fps feels like.

Only took 30 years.

Eh?? Makes more sense Nintendo fans to know how 60fps feels since way before (NES and SNES) almost all other fans like Sony, SEGA and MS fans.

 

[corgiix3]

This game is so fucking good bro. Old nintendo had that sauce

 

[Gaiff]

If I ever decide to get into Zelda, at least for the first time, I will play with original framerate.

Don't get me wrong, usually I will always choose the option to play with 60fps if possible, not to mention that I am glad all these recompilations are happening, and I am also not someone who likes the whole "30fps cinematic experience" thing, but...

There just seems something classic, and epic about the low framerate, and overall slowness of the motion, at least in the case of OoC - something that I would like to experience at least once.

I love my games running smooth, yet at the same time, and at least to my eyes, OoC just looks weird.

That's just idiotic.

This thread has some of the dumbest posts I've ever read on Gaf and that's saying something.

"20fps was the intended experience."

What about those in PAL regions who played at like 15fps? Did they not experience the "real experience?"


"Low frame rate adds to the experience"

Lol it fucking does not. I played MM and OOT countless times on the original N64 at low frame rates and the experience on the recompiled roms is comically superior. The artwork pops more, the gameplay feels much better, and it's far more pleasant and immersive without massive slowdowns at random points.


"No one cared about the fact that it was 20fps back then."

And no one cared that 4-player Perfect Dark fps dropped to the single digits. We put up with the limitations. Why would we have cared when there was no standard and nothing could be done about it.


It's fine if you enjoyed the game at 20fps back in the day. I did too, but some of y'all takes are just beyond moronic, trying to justify hardware limitations as some form of artistic integrity or intent when they weren't. The hardware was shit and the devs had to work with it. There's no deeper reason.

 

[diffusionx]

looks soulless

 

[nkarafo]

The N64 game was too low resolution, but 4k/60 is too high. The best way to play it is probably locked 30 at 720.

720p is also too high.

The best resolution for N64 games was 480p on a CRT, like the original Wii Service provided. That and the OOT bonus disc on Wind Waker.

If you don't have a CRT then In emulation, using 2x rendering resolution with Parallel RDP provides the best experience IMO even without a shader. The resolution is just as high as it needs to and because Parallel RDP emulates the VI, there's just about enough softness for the N64 feel, but not too much. It's the perfect N64 image this way. Just make sure you use the Parallel RDP. Ares and Gopher also provide that.

Edit: Here's a screenshot with RetroArch Mupen + Parallel RDP at 2X rendering resolution and a nice Guest Advanced shader with rolling scanlines.

Even the 2D elements are perfect, despite the upscaling factor thanks to Parallel RDP. You can also make it a bit sharper in the shader settings but i like it this way.

It's very close to the real N64 but just about improved enough so it's not as distractingly blurry/low res.

 

[Senua]

That's just idiotic.

This thread has some of the dumbest posts I've ever read on Gaf and that's saying something.

"20fps was the intended experience."

What about those in PAL regions who played at like 15fps? Did they not experience the "real experience?"


"Low frame rate adds to the experience"

Lol it fucking does not. I played MM and OOT countless times on the original N64 at low frame rates and the experience on the recompiled roms is comically superior. The artwork pops more, the gameplay feels much better, and it's far more pleasant and immersive without massive slowdowns at random points.


"No one cared about the fact that it was 20fps back then."

And no one cared that 4-player Perfect Dark fps dropped to the single digits. We put up with the limitations. Why would we have cared when there was no standard and nothing could be done about it.


It's fine if you enjoyed the game at 20fps back in the day. I did too, but some of y'all takes are just beyond moronic, trying to justify hardware limitations as some form of artistic integrity or intent when they weren't. The hardware was shit and the devs had to work with it. There's no deeper reason.

We're in bizzaro world mate lmao

 

[Gaiff]

We're in bizzaro world mate lmao

Wouldn't be so bad if so many bozos didn't act like 20fps was superior. The hell it's not lol. It was fine back in the day and if you wanna put up with it on original hardware, it's still fine now, but if you want the best experience, play the recomp. Those massive frame rate drops are not artistic vision.

 

[TintoConCasera]

That's just idiotic.

This thread has some of the dumbest posts I've ever read on Gaf and that's saying something.

"Everything I don't agree with is dumb!"

 

[Gaiff]

"Everything I don't agree with is dumb!"

Quit this nonsense. I perfectly explained why this shit is dumb. It's fine to put up with 20fps, we all did, but coming in and saying it was artistic intent is stupid, because it's factually incorrect.

 

[bighugeguns]

looks soulless

Bingo.

 

[nkarafo]

Wouldn't be so bad if so many bozos didn't act like 20fps was superior. The hell it's not lol. It was fine back in the day and if you wanna put up with it on original hardware, it's still fine now, but if you want the best experience, play the recomp. Those massive frame rate drops are not artistic vision.

OOT didn't have massive frame rate drops, it barely had any drops. It was 20fps but pretty stable.

 

[TintoConCasera]

Quit this nonsense. I perfectly explained why this shit is dumb. It's fine to put up with 20fps, we all did, but coming in and saying it was artistic intent is stupid, because it's factually incorrect.

Yeah but there's nothing wrong in wanting to experience the classics as they were on release, then maybe up the framerate and textures on a replay.

Try to be more comprehensive with others dude, no need to insult everyone who disagrees with you and it's not like you either.

 

[adamsapple]

Fun fact.

Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker is also capped at 20fps on PSP.

The HD Collection's 720p/60fps port feels smooth as butter by comparison.

 

[Gaiff]

Yeah but there's nothing wrong in wanting to experience the classics as they were on release, then maybe up the framerate and textures on a replay.

You mean like I said there?

"It was fine back in the day and if you wanna put up with it on original hardware, it's still fine now,"

Try to be more comprehensive with others dude, no need to insult everyone who disagrees with you and it's not like you either.

It's exactly like me. Some of those posters are literally making shit up. Hardware limitations do the exact opposite of allowing an artistic vision to flourish. Those beautiful textures you drew? That magnificent music you composed? Yeah, we have to compress them, because they can't fit inside the cartridge, we don't have enough RAM, or the CPU is far too slow. Therefore, your work will be kind of butchered. This is not artistic intent.

OOT didn't have massive frame rate drops, it barely had any drops. It was 20fps but pretty stable.

No, it did have massive slowdowns and I perfectly recall them. When Ganondorf does his super-charged attack, the frame rate completely tanks. Go near fire keeses (the bats), and the frame rate drops when they go anywhere near the screen. Hell, even transitioning between some areas saw the frame rate drop. The game is mired by numerous frame rate issues. It does not stick to 20fps at all.

 

[Azelover]

The 20 fps makes it feel more cinematic.

 

[Hadoukens]

I set this up in 2023. I think the site I downloaded the 3ds texture mod had other texture packs. That's all I can say.

I found a good mod site for them, gamebanana.com. It doesn't have just individual mods, but also mod packs.

 

[Liopleurodon]

That's just idiotic.

This thread has some of the dumbest posts I've ever read on Gaf and that's saying something.

"20fps was the intended experience."

What about those in PAL regions who played at like 15fps? Did they not experience the "real experience?"


"Low frame rate adds to the experience"

Lol it fucking does not. I played MM and OOT countless times on the original N64 at low frame rates and the experience on the recompiled roms is comically superior. The artwork pops more, the gameplay feels much better, and it's far more pleasant and immersive without massive slowdowns at random points.


"No one cared about the fact that it was 20fps back then."

And no one cared that 4-player Perfect Dark fps dropped to the single digits. We put up with the limitations. Why would we have cared when there was no standard and nothing could be done about it.


It's fine if you enjoyed the game at 20fps back in the day. I did too, but some of y'all takes are just beyond moronic, trying to justify hardware limitations as some form of artistic integrity or intent when they weren't. The hardware was shit and the devs had to work with it. There's no deeper reason.

I just wrote how I felt about Ocarina of Time in particular, and I barely even played it - if you can call spending a few minutes to test emulator playing.

Btw, someone in the meantime posted about MGS: Peace Walker; this is exactly one of the games I have in mind when it comes to talks about framerate.

I only played HD version on PS3, spent countless hours on it, 60fps, and I do know that original PSP version has very low framerate, and yet I still consider HD to be definitive version, so it really depends on the game.

Who knows, maybe I will change my mind, and actually play OoC at 60fps, but right now, my overall impression is that decompiled both better than original motionwise, but at the same time weird, cheap, wrong, and plasticky.

It's hard to describe it, but it's kinda like those Final Fantasy 7 mods where usual chibi models are replaced by more realistic ones.

 

[BlackTron]

720p is also too high.

The best resolution for N64 games was 480p on a CRT, like the original Wii Service provided. That and the OOT bonus disc on Wind Waker.

If you don't have a CRT then In emulation, using 2x rendering resolution with Parallel RDP provides the best experience IMO even without a shader. The resolution is just as high as it needs to and because Parallel RDP emulates the VI, there's just about enough softness for the N64 feel, but not too much. It's the perfect N64 image this way. Just make sure you use the Parallel RDP. Ares and Gopher also provide that.

Edit: Here's a screenshot with RetroArch Mupen + Parallel RDP at 2X rendering resolution and a nice Guest Advanced shader with rolling scanlines.



Even the 2D elements are perfect, despite the upscaling factor thanks to Parallel RDP. You can also make it a bit sharper in the shader settings but i like it this way.

It's very close to the real N64 but just about improved enough so it's not as distractingly blurry/low res.

This stands to reason. The game looks about right with all those settings. I've never tried it at 720, but went with something minimal yet widescreen.

Visually, my favorite version is the GC bonus disc, because it's really just N64 with brighter colors and higher res...but not TOO high. In practice, I only played it for Master Quest. The original cart with the intended controller and no patches is still good enough for me.

 

[kevboard]

Dudes be watching 60fps anime and movies and think it's an improvement.

anyone who compares video games to movies or TV shows is not a gamer. just a tourist that has no idea what he's talking about.

 

[kevboard]

They would never spend time and money to rewrite their engine just for us, europe the least important region for video games sales.

they did adjust gameplay speed and physics in their games before that.

did you know for example that Super Mario World actually plays slightly faster in PAL than in NTSC? the reason behind that is that they tried to adjust Mario's movement to feel the same as in the NTSC version, but they slightly overcorrected, making the game feel ever so slightly faster in the PAL version.

as for OoT, there's probably not much they could have done. but they could have tried running the game with a 25fps cap, with similar game logic adjustments done to their older games... this time of course slowing it down slightly instead of speeding it up.

even if it would have resulted in more slowdown than on NTSC, I think it would have been preferable to the 17fps PAL got.

 

[nkarafo]

No, it did have massive slowdowns and I perfectly recall them. When Ganondorf does his super-charged attack, the frame rate completely tanks. Go near fire keeses (the bats), and the frame rate drops when they go anywhere near the screen. Hell, even transitioning between some areas saw the frame rate drop. The game is mired by numerous frame rate issues. It does not stick to 20fps at all.

Ok but this is a massive, 50+ hour game. For 99% of it's play time it was stable. It's not like some games by RARE.

I also had the PAL version, so maybe the slowdowns you mention were less noticeable there as the game run at 17fps here.

 

[Werewolf Jones]

anyone who compares video games to movies or TV shows is not a gamer. just a tourist that has no idea what he's talking about.

I actually play games and don't boot them up to look at their performance then close them. But you do you.

 

[Signalis]

It shows what a difference framerates can do. It feels like a much better game.

(Yes it's my channel, but it's a hobby channel, not commercial.)

60fps better than 20fps? Imagine my shock

 

[kevboard]

I actually play games and don't boot them up to look at their performance then close them. But you do you.

what does that have to do with anything you or I said? did you have an aneurysm? should we call an ambulance?

 

[Gaiff]

Ok but this is a massive, 50+ hour game. For 99% of it's play time it was stable. It's not like some games by RARE.

I also had the PAL version, so maybe the slowdowns you mention were less noticeable there as the game run at 17fps here.

I mean, yeah, 17 is already much lower than 20, so dipping to 16 isn't as noticeable as dropping from 20 to 16.

 

[Senua]

I also had the PAL version, so maybe the slowdowns you mention were less noticeable there as the game run at 17fps here.

 

[iidesuyo]

Just 60?

Try 240.

Does Youtube even support that?

My screen only does 100Hz anyway.

 

[Dorfdad]

How would one achieve this level of beauty and frames for my testbed 5090?

 

[iidesuyo]

How would one achieve this level of beauty and frames for my testbed 5090?

Ship of Harkinian.

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

Hard disagree there man. I played both OOT and MM on a N64 plugged to a big CRT not that long ago and I had a really good time.

Well yeah, I thought this was obvious, but I was talking about seeing these games run on a big, modern, fixed-resolution TV.
Sample and hold at 4K+ that framerate is quite literally unplayable. Maybe they're still acceptable on a 720p screen.

 

[simpatico]

Uncanny valley. It ain't OoT if it ain't 15fps.

I'm inclined to agree, but then I realize the last time I played it was launch…. Idk if the 60fps would make me want to replay it less or more, but I lean more.

 

[iidesuyo]

I'm inclined to agree, but then I realize the last time I played it was launch…. Idk if the 60fps would make me want to replay it less or more, but I lean more.

Like people said before, this wasn't a design choice. The game HAD to be 17/20fps because the N64 couldn't deliver more.

Just like Rayman 2 on Dreamcast ran much smoother than the N64 version. Or Banjo Tooie running much better on XBox360.

 

[Trogdor1123]

I'd be ok if all games looked like this but had a 60+fps

 

[simpatico]

Like people said before, this wasn't a design choice. The game HAD to be 17/20fps because the N64 couldn't deliver more.

Just like Rayman 2 on Dreamcast ran much smoother than the N64 version. Or Banjo Tooie running much better on XBox360.

Agreed. I just have to figure out where I come down on the N64 CRT question. I'll probably start replaying games on the system this fall. Slowly working my way through the ages.

 

[iidesuyo]

I'd be ok if all games looked like this but had a 60+fps

Fast forward the video to 2:16, I had no problem if the game looked like this.

High framerate > high resolution.

F-Zero X is still awesome. Extreme-G, no thanks, and to me, it has a lot to do with the framerate.

 

[iidesuyo]

This is the final boss plus the ending in 3440x1440 (21:9) at 60 fps, in case anyone is interested.

SPOILERS, obviously.




Personally, I prefer 16:9.

 

[evanft]

Fun fact.

Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker is also capped at 20fps on PSP.

The HD Collection's 720p/60fps port feels smooth as butter by comparison.

Bro dug up screenshots that were buried in a tomb in ancient Egypt.

 

[Ozzie666]

A true 10/10 game that withstands the test of time, even with the frame rate. It manages to hold up against modern games, controller and all. It's an amazing creation. Playing on the Analogue 3D is great with improved performance and HDMI., makes it even better, so an 11/10.

My younger self just took he game for granted and never fully understood the amazing spectical.

 

[iidesuyo]

A true 10/10 game that withstands the test of time, even with the frame rate. It manages to hold up against modern games, controller and all. It's an amazing creation. Playing on the Analogue 3D is great with improved performance and HDMI., makes it even better, so an 11/10.

My younger self just took he game for granted and never fully understood the amazing spectical.

I don't know, Hyrule Field always felt empty to me. It was no fun exploring it.

 

[adamsapple]

Bro dug up screenshots that were buried in a tomb in ancient Egypt.

The only digital foundry video that had these was 240p only, lol.

 

[rodrigolfp]

Personally, I prefer 16:9.

See less of the game is better??

 

[iidesuyo]

See less of the game is better??

In that case, I agree.

 

[MMaRsu]

Im trying to play OoT again for the first time in a lotta years, Im using SoH, but I cant get the 'enable alternate assets' checkbox to pop up anywhere, so the game looks like shit.

The 3ds models itself seem to be working but the textures and everything is just n64 style :<

who can help me out