Support NeoGAF

[EternalSunshine1976]

Uber Held Liable, Ordered to Pay $8.5 Million in Driver Rape Suit

"Last year, the New York Times reported that Uber received over 400,000 sexual assault and misconduct reports between 2017 and 2022, which was far more than the company had disclosed. In a report last August, Uber said serious sexual assault on the platform had fallen by 44%."

I just read the article about Uber being held liable and ordered to pay $8.5M in a driver rape case. It sounds like this was meant to be a bellwether, and if that's true, it could have pretty serious ripple effects for Uber going forward. There are so many other cases in line, and this case establishes an enormous precedent to find Uber liable in many of those other cases.

I mean, it's "good" they've been able to lower "serious sexual assault" by 44%, but that means there is still 66% still happening? In what world is that a good result?

If courts and juries are increasingly willing to hold the platform responsible for what happens during rides, that's a big shift from the "independent contractor" shield Uber has relied on for years. Even if Uber appeals, the risk profile alone could start to change how investors, insurers, and regulators look at the business.

It also makes me think about autonomous vehicles. This kind of liability is essential sent to 0% if you remove the human driver entirely. That's where companies like Tesla and Waymo benefit. If safety and legal exposure become bigger concerns for ride-hailing, fully autonomous fleets could start to look a lot more attractive, even if the tech isn't perfect yet.

Not saying this flips the switch overnight, but decisions like this seem like they could quietly accelerate the move toward autonomous ride services over time.

 

[Grildon Tundy]

In a report last August, Uber said serious sexual assault on the platform had fallen by 44%."

Talk about a depressing stat. That it happens at all. That stating some sexual assault is "serious" implies the existence of "non-serious" sexual assault. That Uber, presumably, is using its decrease as positive PR. That (again, presumably) they chose to separate it from "non-serious" sexual assaults to make the numbers look better.

 

[thefool]

We're getting to a point where women shouldn't be using uber

 

[Avid Reading Horse]

It also makes me think about autonomous vehicles. This kind of liability is essential sent to 0% if you remove the human driver entirely. That's where companies like Tesla and Waymo benefit. If safety and legal exposure become bigger concerns for ride-hailing, fully autonomous fleets could start to look a lot more attractive, even if the tech isn't perfect yet.

You make it sound like Elon won't be remote puppeting Optimus bots hidden in Robotaxis to sexually assault drunk chicks.

 

[BlackTron]

Talk about a depressing stat. That it happens at all. That stating some sexual assault is "serious" implies the existence of "non-serious" sexual assault. That Uber, presumably, is using its decrease as positive PR. That (again, presumably) they chose to separate it from "non-serious" sexual assaults to make the numbers look better.

They didn't even say sexual assault was 44% lower, they said serious sexual assault. So, is there another tier of SA that is not included in this statistic?

 

[Grildon Tundy]

They didn't even say sexual assault was 44% lower, they said serious sexual assault. So, is there another tier of SA that is not included in this statistic?

That's the implication.

Hey, Uber, since the stat is for "serious" SA, here are synonyms for "not serious":

forgivable excusable pardonable condonable allowable permissible understandable justifiable defensible venial remissible minor remittable slight trivial insignificant tolerable unimportant all right within accepted bounds defendable passable

What is another word for "not serious"?

Synonyms for not serious include forgivable, excusable, pardonable, condonable, allowable, permissible, understandable, justifiable, defensible and venial. Find more similar words at wordhippo.com!

www.wordhippo.com

 

[jason10mm]

We're getting to a point where women shouldn't be using uber

yeah, and sadly a female uber driver would likely be targeted for assault as well.

I think the real takeaway is that being drunk off your ass and taking an uber to get home is a high risk option. Also need to vet your driver selection. I've certainly been places where the uber driver pool is.....suspect and I'm not sure I'd want my daughter or wife taking them alone or in a compromised state.

 

[Hari Seldon]

Yeah getting into a stranger's car when you are blackout drunk at 2am is likely a bad idea, Uber or not.

 

[Aesius]

It's amazing how the perception of Uber and Lyft has tanked in the past 6-7 years.

From 2013-2017 or so, getting into a rideshare vehicle was almost always a good experience. New, clean cars with attentive, friendly drivers. Now, it's a total crapshoot, and most of the time, the vehicles are old, beat-up, dirty, and driven by weirdos.

I used to think nothing of calling one. Now I hesitate and explore other options. It just always feels like a roll of the dice as to whether it will be a tolerable at best or awful experience at worst.

 

[EternalSunshine1976]

You make it sound like Elon won't be remote puppeting Optimus bots hidden in Robotaxis to sexually assault drunk chicks.

Not sure what to say to your comment other than that I think this is a serious issue, and women have been irreparably harmed for life. I'm a little perturbed, honestly, that you decided to joke about sexual assault. Ha ha?

I feel like the Internet has made people immune to previously common traits like empathy and decency sometimes.

 

[EternalSunshine1976]

It's amazing how the perception of Uber and Lyft has tanked in the past 6-7 years.

From 2013-2017 or so, getting into a rideshare vehicle was almost always a good experience. New, clean cars with attentive, friendly drivers. Now, it's a total crapshoot, and most of the time, the vehicles are old, beat-up, dirty, and driven by weirdos.

I used to think nothing of calling one. Now I hesitate and explore other options. It just always feels like a roll of the dice as to whether it will be a tolerable at best or awful experience at worst.

I used to use them for work all the time. I haven't ever had a bad experience personally, and about 80% of the drivers I've interacted with were cool people. 20% were not to be talked to, which is fine. I don't think less of them in any way, but also don't have any ability to get a read of who they are if no speaking is involved.

All that said, I'm nearly six foot tall, and a guy. I've also only taken Ubers during working hours, and never been inebriated during a ride... not that I would feel that I was compromised or exposed even if I was... Solo women though, and even a couple of women, drunk or not, are pretty vulnerable. Obviously there have likely been a billion or more rides, so 99% of drivers are decent people. Unfortunately, Uber haven't been able to weed out that 1%... what do they say? A rotten apple spoils the bunch?

 

[Avid Reading Horse]

Not sure what to say to your comment other than that I think this is a serious issue, and women have been irreparably harmed for life. I'm a little perturbed, honestly,

Hey man, thank you for your honesty. Great, it's a serious issue. And you're going to solve it by... raising awareness on... NeoGAF?

that you decided to joke about sexual assault. Ha ha?

The joke is more aimed at my boy Elon, who I do like, but is admittedly a little creepy. Granted I'm not stand-up comedian professional or otherwise, but I feel it falls within generally accepted rules of comedy. It's okay to joke about serious issues.

I feel like the Internet has made people immune to previously common traits like empathy and decency sometimes.

I'd make the same joke to my RL friends and my current set of coworkers no problem. But yeah, I'm totally sure you're morally superior to an Internet hobgoblin such as myself because you don't make such jokes.

 

[jason10mm]

You make it sound like Elon won't be remote puppeting Optimus bots hidden in Robotaxis to sexually assault drunk chicks.

How many films have the robotaxi getting hacked and driving the passenger to a bad place?

Cause I bet that is DEFINITELY gonna happen.

 

[EternalSunshine1976]

Hey man, thank you for your honesty. Great, it's a serious issue. And you're going to solve it by... raising awareness on... NeoGAF?

The joke is more aimed at my boy Elon, who I do like, but is admittedly a little creepy. Granted I'm not stand-up comedian professional or otherwise, but I feel it falls within generally accepted rules of comedy. It's okay to joke about serious issues.

I'd make the same joke to my RL friends and my current set of coworkers no problem. But yeah, I'm totally sure you're morally superior to an Internet hobgoblin such as myself because you don't make such jokes.

Are you for real? You're saying that because I posted this on NeoGAF that I'm not serious about the topic, or made some error? That I'm trying to "solve" the problem by posting this here?

Morally superior? Well YEAH. I am in this case. No question.

 

[rkofan87]

Yeah getting into a stranger's car when you are blackout drunk at 2am is likely a bad idea, Uber or not.

I agree with you 100% but Playing devil's advocate what's the point of uber then was that not a selling point?

 

[Avid Reading Horse]

Are you for real? You're saying that because I posted this on NeoGAF that I'm in error? I'm trying to "solve" the problem by posting this here?

Morally superior? Well YEAH. I am in this case. No question.

Well, if your post isn't going to solve the problem, then my joke isn't going to interfere with that. Look man, you're the best of us, morally. So you should step up to the plate and drive for Uber. Every ride you take is a ride an Uber Racist can't take. I would consider taking up the post but I'm a bad person and probably a rapist-to-be so it falls to you, good sir!

 

[rkofan87]

How many films have the robotaxi getting hacked and driving the passenger to a bad place?

Cause I bet that is DEFINITELY gonna happen.

you say that.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6237268/

 

[EternalSunshine1976]

Well, if your post isn't going to solve the problem, then my joke isn't going to interfere with that. Look man, you're the best of us, morally. So you should step up to the plate and drive for Uber. Every ride you take is a ride an Uber Racist can't take. I would consider taking up the post but I'm a bad person and probably a rapist-to-be so it falls to you, good sir!

Look, I'm not trying to call you a bad person. I'm sure you're a great guy. I do feel that it takes a certain detachment to make such a joke about such a topic. It both trivializes the issue and buries the real victims. That detachment is a concern to me, because people don't treat others like neighbors or even "people" anymore, it seems.

As I said, I was perturbed by your post and perhaps I over-reacted. Joke away I guess if that is your thing.

Regarding "solving a problem," do you really think that that was my intent? To solve a problem by making a post for discussion?

Also, I never called uber drivers "racist"... not sure where you got that.

 

[Faltherion]

I used to use them for work all the time. I haven't ever had a bad experience personally, and about 80% of the drivers I've interacted with were cool people. 20% were not to be talked to, which is fine. I don't think less of them in any way, but also don't have any ability to get a read of who they are if no speaking is involved.

All that said, I'm nearly six foot tall, and a guy. I've also only taken Ubers during working hours, and never been inebriated during a ride... not that I would feel that I was compromised or exposed even if I was... Solo women though, and even a couple of women, drunk or not, are pretty vulnerable. Obviously there have likely been a billion or more rides, so 99% of drivers are decent people. Unfortunately, Uber haven't been able to weed out that 1%... what do they say? A rotten apple spoils the bunch?

I'll never understand why people use their height as an excuse to whatever the situation is. Just because someone is tall doesn't mean they are strong and vice versa. And on top that, where I live most people have guns. So I will never understand why people think that their height is some sort of unstoppable force and will protect you from the crazies.

Please elaborate? Are you saying that because you are somewhat tall that people don't mess with you? I guess that would also depent on if you are actually physically built or not or just a twig.

I am not a big dude by any means, but I always carry shit with me and so do some of my friends who are above 6 foot and higher. If someone is gonna attack you they gonna do it anyway and chances are they also have weapons. That will overcome whatever height someone is.

 

[Avid Reading Horse]

Also, I never called uber drivers "racist"... not sure where you got that.

Typo, I meant Uber Rapist. Hey friend we all make mistakes. I wasn't going to draw attention to 66%+44%=110% in your OP for example.

 

[EternalSunshine1976]

I'll never understand why people use their height as an excuse to whatever the situation is. Just because someone is tall doesn't mean they are strong and vice versa. And on top that, where I live most people have guns. So I will never understand why people think that their height is some sort of unstoppable force and will protect you from the crazies.

Please elaborate? Are you saying that because you are somewhat tall that people don't mess with you? I guess that would also depent on if you are actually physically built or not or just a twig.

I am not a big dude by any means, but I always carry shit with me and so do some of my friends who are above 6 foot and higher. If someone is gonna attack you they gonna do it anyway and chances are they also have weapons. That will overcome whatever height someone is.

I see what you're saying. Obviously weapons and guns are great equalizers..... BUT are you saying that the size of the person means nothing? I think it does, especially to someone that is considering assaulting the other person or taking advantage of them. Even with guns, if you aren't surprised, someone with better reach can disarm someone easier than someone with a shorter reach. Also, I don't think my words ever made it seem that I was an unstoppable force... I am under no illusions that being 5'11" is some great thing. It doesn't even mean I'm even taller than most. Since you asked, no, I'm definitely not a twig. So there is some girth to go with the average height.

However, to say height / size doesn't matter seems to be going against human nature and history. Are you saying in boxing, weight classes, measurements of height and reach are worthless? I play basketball a lot, and people only two inches taller than me are generally advantaged, if they have a similar level of skill.

Oh, and I carry nothing with me, nor do any of my friends. We live in suburbs of Southern California (i.e., the San Fernando Valley), and it is pretty unusual to be carrying weapons. I have my phone, keys, elbows and knees as my only weapons. Good thing, I've never been physically challenged.

 

[Moondoggy]

It's insane to me they weren't able to be held liable from the start, these people are representing Uber as an employee when they show up to transport someone from one destination to the next, it's the whole reason people even get in the car in the first place, the moment anything like this happens while that employee is "on the clock" so to speak, both the employee and the company should be liable for.

 

[GateofD]

been out of the legal loop. are the drivers legally count as employed by uber or 'independently contracting themselves to uber'

 

[EternalSunshine1976]

It's insane to me they weren't able to be held liable from the start, these people are representing Uber as an employee when they show up to transport someone from one destination to the next, it's the whole reason people even get in the car in the first place, the moment anything like this happens while that employee is "on the clock" so to speak, both the employee and the company should be liable for.

That is actually Uber's arguments, that the drivers are not their "employees" but "independent contractors" who they have little control over. . . Obviously this argument is much more effective when they tried to avoid paying payroll taxes and not give Uber drivers health insurance...

I'm glad that the federal jury saw right through it, and gave them the liability. How many billions of dollars are they making from these people they have no control over? How many reports of sexual assault do they need until they do much more to address the problem? I hear Lyft allows people to choose drivers of a certain gender, and while that won't solve the problem completely, it certain is doing something.

 

[Faltherion]

I see what you're saying. Obviously weapons and guns are great equalizers..... BUT are you saying that the size of the person means nothing? I think it does, especially to someone that is considering assaulting the other person or taking advantage of them. Even with guns, if you aren't surprised, someone with better reach can disarm someone easier than someone with a shorter reach. Also, I don't think my words ever made it seem that I was an unstoppable force... I am under no illusions that being 5'11" is some great thing. It doesn't even mean I'm even taller than most. Since you asked, no, I'm definitely not a twig. So there is some girth to go with the average height.

However, to say height / size doesn't seems to be going against human nature and history. Are you saying in boxing, weight classes, measurements of height and reach are worthless? I play basketball a lot, and people only two inches taller than me are generally advantaged, if they have a similar level of skill.

Oh, and I carry nothing with me, nor do any of my friends. We live in suburbs of Southern California (i.e., the San Fernando Valley), and it is unusual to be carrying weapons. I have my phone, keys, elbows and knees as my only weapons. Good thing, I've never been physically challenged.

I never said that height/size doesn't matter in any aspect of human life or sports for that matter, those are obvious things lol. And I am not saying that YOU specifically assumed that you are are "unstoppable force of nature" due to your height. I was making a asking a general question about people who say something about their height etc and just asking if people really trust that so much because your post reminded me of that. Speaking of Basketball, do not forget that Muggsy Bogues was in the NBA at 5 foot 3. The dude was tiny, but due to his small size he would just run in between peoples legs and I guess had insane dunk and jump height that gave him the advantage that most regular tall basketball players did not, he played as a Point Guard position mainly - here is a link if you are curious - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muggsy_Bogues

Also fun fact, the best height for body building is considered to be between 5"7 to 5"10 you will get the best balance between your muscle mass, density, and proportion, enabling athletes to fill out their frames effectively. You will also lean out quicker than someone over 6 feet tall because your limbs are shorter so the muscles look bigger and fuller. It's kind of crazy sometimes how biology and the human body works on a scientific level.

It's unusual for you to carry weapons because you live in a liberal state that's why and they have much stricter gun rules despite them being legal in California. I am in Florida near Miami, it 's IRL Grant Theft Auto out here. The last thing you want is to get into a road rage with someone and then get shot. I can go into any gun store and buy whatever at any time (assuming that I have a legal concealed gun carry permit) I can literally walk into a bar with a fully loaded gun and if someone tries to fuck with me they will run whether I am 3 foot 5 or 7 foot 11. You get the gist here? lol. We also have a full right to shoot someone on sight if they are trespassing into our private property. No questions will be asked if you shoot them.

 

[EternalSunshine1976]

been out of the legal loop. are the drivers legally count as employed by uber or 'independently contracting themselves to uber'

In California, at least, Uber drivers are not employees, but independent contractors. California voters actually voted for gig-workers to be excepted from the regular criteria / tests to determine if independent contractor status was appropriate.

So, at least in California, there is a legal fiction that Uber drivers are independent contractors.

I had thought this was mostly because Uber didn't want to pay payroll taxes, and also didn't want to give their "workers" health insurance, or worker's compensation coverage... all of this really sucked in my view... but now I realize they were also trying to avoid sexual assault and even rape liability... In California, their business would be toast if they were found liable for those crimes...

From this legal precedent, Uber is now extremely exposed and vulnerable to future law suits and sanctions from state authorities. Can't say I really feel bad for Uber here, as "Uber said serious sexual assault on the platform had fallen by 44%." Seriously that is a tone deaf statement.

 

[EternalSunshine1976]

I never said that height/size doesn't matter in any aspect of human life or sports for that matter, those are obvious things lol. And I am not saying that YOU specifically assumed that you are are "unstoppable force of nature" due to your height. I was making a asking a general question about people who say something about their height etc and just asking if people really trust that so much because your post reminded me of that. Speaking of Basketball, do not forget that Muggsy Bogues was in the NBA at 5 foot 3. The dude was tiny, but due to his small size he would just run in between peoples legs and I guess had insane dunk and jump height that gave him the advantage that most regular tall basketball players did not, he played as a Point Guard position mainly - here is a link if you are curious - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muggsy_Bogues

Also fun fact, the best height for body building is considered to be between 5"7 to 5"10 you will get the best balance between your muscle mass, density, and proportion, enabling athletes to fill out their frames effectively. You will also lean out quicker than someone over 6 feet tall because your limbs are shorter so the muscles look bigger and fuller. It's kind of crazy sometimes how biology and the human body works on a scientific level.

It's unusual for you to carry weapons because you live in a liberal state that's why and they have much stricter gun rules despite them being legal in California. I am in Florida near Miami, it 's IRL Grant Theft Auto out here. The last thing you want is to get into a road rage with someone and then get shot. I can go into any gun store and buy whatever at any time (assuming that I have a legal concealed gun carry permit) I can literally walk into a bar with a fully loaded gun and if someone tries to fuck with me they will run whether I am 3 foot 5 or 7 foot 11. You get the gist here? lol. We also have a full right to shoot someone on sight if they are trespassing into our private property. No questions will be asked if you shoot them.

I see. You were asking about general circumstances. I was mistaken that you were directly asking me.

I loved Muggsy Bogues, loved his iconic dunk championship.. He was an incredible athlete for sure. He was also a freak of nature who could jump almost 5 feet in the air. Muggsy would never be considered one of the best of the best players in NBA history though. That said, he clearly is one of the most unforgettable players, and I would rather pay to see him play than most 6'9" players (not named Magic Johnson or Lebron James).

Regarding body building, I had no idea that 5'10" was the optimal height. I think Arnold was 6'2" and towered over all others (other than Lou Ferrigno) both physically and figurative, so I'm probably biased by my multiple viewings of Pumping Iron. That said, Franco Columbu was awesome.

Lastly, goodness does Florida sounds like a scary place. I feel that the extra money I have to spend to live in Southern Cali was well spent. I also avoid physical confrontation at all costs, never been in a bar fight LOL... I'm taller than you, but I don't think I've ever intimidated anyone, or ever felt the need to. I get the "gist" of what you are saying, and it scares me that that is the environment over there. Even if I was armed, revealing this fact would be the last of my options, much less make overt threats. Escalating situations is not my inclination in any scenario.