pudel
Member
What are "live elements"?
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The Industry Runs on GaaS
- Thread starter Instant_Classic
- Start date
Instant_Classic
Member
That all statistics indicate multiplayer games, are what most people care about.
https://steamdb.info/charts
These results are consistent across platforms.
I work on data not feelings.
Instant_Classic
Member
Daily challenges, special events, seasons, etc.
The game basically being dynamic from the initial point of purchase, with it's ability to change over time.
That's what "live" specifies.
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clarky
Gold Member
Don't know why they didn't hand over Factions to one of the GAAS studios they had. It was either really bad and they could make it work or they really are fucking stupid.
pudel
Member
Okay....so just updates/dlc's...which can be implemented in SP games as well. Keeping yr game fresh is not a "GaaS"-only thing.
Humdinger
Member
Yeah, we know. It's why all the corporations are chasing GaaS.
It's not different from posting a Top Ten music list and saying, "This is why everyone wants to be like these artists [who mostly suck] -- because look at how popular they are, and how much money they make!"
Ok... so? What's the argument? Are you saying that producing GaaS games is a good thing, because it's popular and lucrative (sometimes)? Are you saying we should stop complaining about it and instead applaud it, because it produces "hits" that make lots of money? I'm not sure what the takeaway here is supposed to be.
It's not different from posting a Top Ten music list and saying, "This is why everyone wants to be like these artists [who mostly suck] -- because look at how popular they are, and how much money they make!"
Ok... so? What's the argument? Are you saying that producing GaaS games is a good thing, because it's popular and lucrative (sometimes)? Are you saying we should stop complaining about it and instead applaud it, because it produces "hits" that make lots of money? I'm not sure what the takeaway here is supposed to be.
bitbydeath
Member
What data though?
There's no break-up of SP vs MP popularity when on the same game.
I bet most people who have bought GTAV play it for the SP. Minecraft is also HUGE for SP.
Sports games are also big SP games.
Instant_Classic
Member
GTAV is over a decade old, nobody is still playing it in these high numbers for the SP.
Shark cards generate an insane amount of money for Rockstar, to the point where releasing a SP DLC wasn't worth it.
You're crazy, MP/Live features is the main draw of all these games.
Instant_Classic
Member
You fail to realize, people are social creatures.
They PREFER playing with friends or others.
bitbydeath
Member
I disagree and you have no data to back that claim.
GTAV hasn't stopped selling, it's continually going out to new people all the time, and the majority of those new people would play the SP, likely more so than they would touch the MP.
pudel
Member
You fail to realize that you dont need "GaaS" to have a multiplayer experience. Just give the game and local servers...et voila!
Instant_Classic
Member
"GTA 5 Online active player count has approximately 18.3 million monthly active users globally, making it one of the most enduring games in the industry. The GTA 5 daily player count consistently reaches 4.2 million daily active users across all platforms. PC platform leads Steam charts with consistent engagement, while console platforms maintain strong player bases on PlayStation and Xbox systems.
The current GTA 5 player count shows remarkable stability more than a decade after its initial release. With the enhanced edition release in March 2025, the GTA 5 current player count 2025 has seen significant growth, particularly on PC platforms.".
We're done here.
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Instant_Classic
Member
There is no takeaway, it's about learning why the industry is moving towards GaaS.
There's much to win, and a lot to lose if you don't.
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Instant_Classic
Member
The days where we people just play to play, are over.You fail to realize that you dont need "GaaS" to have a multiplayer experience. Just give the game and local servers...et voila!
Players want progression factored in their game time, otherwise it's not worth it.
That's why traditional multiplayer games without those elements, are gone.
bitbydeath
Member
GTAV has sold over 225M copies, sounds like SP far outweighs MP.
Instant_Classic
Member
One game (the biggest in the industry), that has generated Rockstar so much money is your example for why SP games are viable.
All the while, everyone knows GTA V online is continued sustainable money maker and main component, for the game after all these years.
GTA V's campaign isn't even regarded all that favorably, anyways.
GTA VI will take this (online component) to the next level and allow Rockstar to wait, 20 years before GTAVII.
All data points to multiplayer and live service games being the main draw, of player's time in the current day.
This isn't even arguable.
Go check Steam, Xbox Live, or PSN.
The industry with all their analytics knows this, and are going all in.
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Instant_Classic
Member
Not everyone is going to succeed, in any venture.
Sony publicly stated they could release 10 single player games, and maybe 2 would return any profit.
Topher
Identifies as young
Sony made those games knowing they wouldn't necessarily be profitable. They were building a library for the PS platform, not trying to create the next big cash cow like gaas games try to be.
bitbydeath
Member
I listed five other games as well, you chose to focus on GTAV.
It shows we don't know the differences involved when it comes to SP & MP in the same game because those stats don't get released.
18M players online when the game sells 18M copies every 3-6 months? You would expect a lot higher if it were a strong MP over SP game right?
calico
Member
The Top 10 makes it look like the seats are already taken. The sports games (licensing), CoD, GTA, Roblox, Fortnite are basically locked in.
It's an amazing group to be in, if you're already in it.
pudel
Member
Yeah, ofc you always want a carrot to chase....in most games. Still dont see how GaaS is a necessity for it. And Minecraft is basically the opposite of what you are telling me here. Kids just hop together on their own server and doing whatever they want to do there. There is no GaaS progression or something involved...there is just the normal game progression or a modded one...and that seems to be enough already.
KimDongHwan
Member
The list is like those articles "Look at what the top 10 billionaires do in their daily routine" - it doesn't paint at all how the entire wealth in games is distributed among so many verticals. But to the CEOs that didn't come to gaming industry for the games but for the money, of course they will chase - same as how back then they were chasing for the "mobile market" or at some point they were chasing the "Wiimote" market, when other newcomers are laughing all the way to the bank by filling the gap left by the big companies (until they become the big company to repeat the cycle).
rm082e
Gold Member
Sure. This is why my PS5 sits unplayed for months at a time. I can't imagine buying a PS6 at this point given their output, and almost all of their games coming to Steam.
They are losing me as a customer because they're letting their brand identity fade away. It's the same thing Xbox did last generation.
Humdinger
Member
Oh, ok. Well, most people here have known that for a long time.
clarky
Gold Member
The reason GTAV still sells is for the shark cards. Its cheaper to buy the full game with the card than it is to buy the card on its own.
It still sells because of GTA online, not the SP campaign.
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clarky
Gold Member
There are loads of seats in the back row available. Again loads of smaller live games turn a decent profit, you don't need to be in the top ten. Look at stuff like Hunt or Warframe for reference.
Same shit as single player games. you don't need to be a top ten seller of the year to turn a profit.
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bitbydeath
Member
18M online vs 225 total sales.
That's around 200M people choosing SP and not even bothering touching the MP.
We can be lenient and say 150M to account for people who tried the MP and moved on but it's incredibly unlikely to be that low.
clarky
Gold Member
lol thats not how it works. You think they have zero churn in online players over the last 12 years?
HRK69
Member
Why not just make the entire OP bold while you're at it? lolTop 10 Most Played PS5 Games list.
Note: This list is essentially the same on the Xbox side.
Every single game on the list is a live serice, type game.
PS5 Ships 92.2 Million Units as of December 2025 - Sales
PS5 did not reach 92 million units by the lack of a single player games it has.
Heck, PS5 has OUTSOLD the PS3 which had COUNTLESS more SINGLE PLAYER and EXCLUSIVE games.
Why spend 5 - 7 years developing a one and done single player game (many won't beat), when we (Sony) can have reoccuring revenue for many years?
People don't understand, this man was right.
Gaming is a business, and Jim Ryan knew where things were heading.
Eiher get in, or get out.
Topher
Identifies as young
Needs all caps for me to take it seriously
bitbydeath
Member
You're suggesting they turn over everyone every few months? The numbers are astronomically bad in comparison to sales.
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HRK69
Member
I just discovered BBCode and now everything must be IMPORTANT
calico
Member
David_Android
Neo Member
wait until you discover how much mobile games dominate
pudel
Member
clarky
Gold Member
No I'm suggesting that the majority of sales these days are because of the shark card pack in. People buy multiple copies of the game because its cheaper than buying a card on its own. If you shop around.
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Instant_Classic
Member
He's right, why spend 100 of millions on high effort and high budget non-reoccuring revenue single player games when you don't have to...?
Dont give him ideas.
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clarky
Gold Member
Not sure why you are quoting me?
Instant_Classic
Member
The idea he believes that people are playing GTA V in 2026 for the single player, is hilarious.
How out of touch can someone be?
clarky
Gold Member
GTA online is enormous. Whats it make like 700 million a year? Ain't nobody playing the single player anymore. Anyone who wanted to has long since done so.
Also the reason GTA 6 has taken so long, no reason to kneecap your biggest money maker until the cow slows on producing cash.
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Instant_Classic
Member
Do you have data to back up GTA V's 225 million sales were for the single player?
Because the overwhelming majority love to play GTA Online with their friends.
Felessan
Member
So out of touch with realityThis is you
AA is more riskier investement - lack of visibility due to limited marketing budget disproportionally reduces sales. And getting "niche but loyal playerbase" is a feat that 90% of AA will not achieve. A lot of AA gaas games would like to have such niche playerbase, it would sustain them even better than SP game,, and couldn't get one
The current sweet spot seems to be 50-100m where you can get quality and marketing enough to have a good quality and visibility to ensure at least some sales.
Those are the same games
Instant_Classic
Member
Exactly, GTA V is not maintaining active high player accounts over a decade since release to a mixed reaction single player.
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
The difference is even if a SP game don't sell you can still play it and enjoy even 10 years after it comes out but GaaS games if it fails that's it the game dies and you have no way of accessing it.
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bitbydeath
Member
They'd have to be physical copies right?
Because you cannot rebuy digital copies without creating a new account each time, AFAIK.
pudel
Member
Nope. If you were born when GTAV released...you are now more or less able to play the game for the first time and who wouldnt experience one of the best games ever made. You forget that every day new "gamers" are born.
However I agree that GTA online does seem to play a big role as well to keep people in the game for a very long time.
amigastar
Member
That what Samuel L. Jackson said about his role in Pulp Fiction. Every day new fans get to see Pulp Fiction and like it.
bitbydeath
Member
Yeah, you provided it above with the 18M figure in a month.
Fortnite though, they've had nearly 50M in a day.
That should be where GTA is if it was as popular as you're thinking.