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[Sohurmk833]

I will agree the content creators have gotten worse, especially over the past few years. It feels like everything is click and rage bait. Everyone is regurgitating the same nonsensical takes to their own "community" and folks just take it and run with it.

As said already, the whole negativity is a direct reaction to the bullshit the gaming industry has been putting us through all these years. People weren´t that pissed 15 or 20 years ago and that certainly isn´t the fault of some youtube clowns.

 

[ByWatterson]

A thought experiment:

If this game were the exact same, but any of the following:

- More satisyingly violent
- Darker color scheme
- More medieval/high fantasy looking
- More futuristic looking

it would have been better received. But they're too insulated and culturally feminine to understand the average chud gamer. Instead, they made a game with an aesthetic that screams LA, South Florida, night clubs, and TikTok. It just *looks* awful and NO ONE there ever even considered it.

 

[MiguelItUp]

Well he's not wrong. Some times its just cool to hate on a game so people piled on. It happens every year, it happened to Death Stranding when it came out.


"At launch, we received over 14k review bombs from users with less than an hour of playtime. Many didn't even finish the required tutorial."

I mean, I will agree that there's some bizarre trend/fad to just overly hate (if not almost obsessively) on games while not even caring about the game in the first place. But I firmly believe a good/great game can dismiss any nonsense that comes its way. There are plenty of games over the past decades that came out, were both loved and bashed by their community, but proceeded to receive awards and positive feedback. The biggest difference nowadays is that more and more people have access to the internet, and more & more people have a say in anything and everything.

As said already, the whole negativity is a direct reaction to the bullshit the gaming industry has been putting us through all these years. People weren´t that pissed 15 or 20 years ago and that certainly isn´t the fault of some youtube clowns.

Personally, I think there's a bit more to it than that. There are definitely those that have been around for awhile that haven't liked the current state of games for a long while now. But it's not EVERYONE. Well, it didn't seem they were that pissed 15-20 years ago, but we also didn't have the same amount and number of interactions as we do today with the internet becoming more and more accessible. Along with the growth of social platforms.

Peering into a Twitch chat or YouTube comments doesn't always invoke positive feeling when the person can almost say "THING BAD" about anything and you see a flood of comments immediately agreeing.

 

[Moondoggy]

Let's be honest, he definitely did.

 

[Moondoggy]

Meanwhile the Concord devs are standing off to the side during the interview going

 

[keefged4]

What a little bitch.

Take the L, learn from it and move on.

By throwing your toys out the pram you have effectively decimated any credibility you have as a developer.

 

[Kacho]

But they're too insulated and culturally feminine to understand the average chud gamer.

Nailed it

 

[Hemingwayoffbase]

Success has many parents but failure is an orphan.

 

[Varteras]

It was dead on arrival because you made multiple bad decisions and most of them were obvious before the game even launched. You didn't lose 90% of your players in less time than a good night's sleep because of internet trolls. You lost them that fast because your game was ass and even the critics couldn't run cover for you.

Just admit that you thought you were gonna pull an Apex Legends and instead you pulled a Concord. Because you allowed yourself to be in an echo chamber that reinforced a misguided belief that you had something great on your hands and no precautions were necessary.

You stepped into the ring with juggernauts where the rules today are merciless with nothing more than a positive attitude that you're a somebody. No one but you and Geoff Keighley are shocked that you're just another stain on the mat.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

"the team believed they had something special."

This is the problem, right here.

Western devs are completely out of touch with what gamers actually want.

 

[mckmas8808]

My guy, there is money in them there hills.

Money, moolah, profit, growth, line go up, returns, cash, bling etc.

Things will never be simple when so much money is on a table.

YouTube says it has paid creators more than $100 billion over last 4 years

The company also announced new artificial intelligence tools for YouTube Shorts, its short-form vertical video product.

www.cnbc.com

Oh gotcha! Yeah you right man.......I just hate that it has to be like this.

 

[Plague Doctor]

The autism claim in his profile checks out.

 

[Last Hearth]

The peak 97K concurrent players means actually total number who tried it on steam is probably 1 to 1.5 million.

That's enough players who wanted to give it a chance that if the game was any good it would have held on to a player base.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

Developers these days lack...reflection on themselves.

 

[panda-zebra]

Josh Sobel should make use of this newly found free time he has on his hands and put aside a day to watch all the content Laura Fryer has put up to YouTube over the past 2 years. 8 hours and job done. Highlights below. Then he might learn where they've gone wrong so that history doesn't repeat itself half a decade from now as she predicted it would in the past.

And make no mistake - refusal to acknowledge failings and reconnect with the gaming public (rather than an imagined fluffed-up pink & baby blue all-boxes-ticked imagined version of it) absolutely means it's certain to happen all over again and again.

"From The Creators Of..."
Testing with the target audience.
"Game makers are passionate. They love the game they're making and that means it's very difficult for them to have an objective view of the state of their team and the project."


Studio Culture is a Killer.
"You have to make the game while paying attention to what is going on around you because gaming evolves. What players like changes. You need a studio culture that has a healthy feedback loop." instead of having your peers and chums blow "you caught lightning in a bottle" smoke up your arse.


Games Industry Bubble.
Listen to gamers, don't lecture them.
"One would think these failures would create a moment of crisis, a moment of self-reflection in the industry. That Studios would realize that instead of lecturing gamers about what they should want, they would listen and understand their fans - you know, the people who want to be entertained who want to pay to play their games."


A message To Game Developers.
How to respond to criticism, take it on board and use it instead of burning bridges, reacting, fingers-in-ears blaming content creators for your own failings.


The Industry's Unlearned Lessons.
"They had plenty of people trying the game. And when you have that many people trying and then leaving, it's not a marketing problem. It's the game. The issues within the game were bad enough that people left and didn't come back."
Marketing. Content creators. Gamers. Blame whomever gives you the most likes on twitter I guess. But the problem is always the game. People will stick around if the game's great. 97k to sub-1K in under a fortnite - it's the game.


She predicted it and Wildlight fulfilled it. Why Highguard looks like another cautionary tale. Yep, you proved all the above. Well done.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Zero accountability and toxic positivity culture stays alive and kicking.

Have some humility and humbleness, FFS.

 

[Darchaos]

Nope, a ccu on steam said 97k. If the game was good people would have stayed! Not couse some got damn creator said otherwise.

Shitgame is always shitgame, that is where a dev looses players.

 

[DeepEnigma]

They're supposed to be investigators and mere news reporters not the gatekeepers.

And they wonder why "gamergate" was a thing. Bunch of frauds.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

They're supposed to be investigators and mere news reporters not the gatekeepers.

And they wonder why "gamergate" was a thing. Bunch of frauds.

I hate that they're still around. I want a proper PC news outlet that isn't run by nutters.

 

[Alan Silvestro]

It's not your shitty game, it's YouTube and twitch

 

[Svalr93]

Literally the only thing I've ever seen or heard of about this game has been memes about it being bad lol

 

[vindafarna]

It sounds like the studio's morale was toast after the justified poor reception of its reveal.

I wasn't paying much attention to the Game Awards and have just checked out its debut trailer. Everything about it is mediocre.

 

[Dorfdad]

There are lots of games that have overcome "negative content creators" so I think it's bullshit to blame other people. Cyberpunk and No Man's Sky had sort of an uphill battle and passed with flying colors eventually because of the efforts made by the teams.

So listen and fix it. No mans sky was ripped to shreds and they buckled down and fixed and improved the game to become a monster hit. If the bones are good it can be worked on. I get it cost money but before you start this journey ensure you have enough funding to last at least a year and address issues. The segment is filled with half ass attempts.

 

[lughnasadh123]

There's some truth to what he's saying. Negative engagement farming is lucrative. People openly wanted this game to die over giving it a chance solely for having the audacity to be the closing game at the TGAs. Some people just want anything GAAS to burn. People wanted another Concord for the lawls. You still see some of this crap surrounding the lead in for Marathon.

 

[PeteBull]

There's some truth to what he's saying. Negative engagement farming is lucrative. People openly wanted this game to die over giving it a chance solely for having the audacity to be the closing game at the TGAs. Some people just want anything GAAS to burn. People wanted another Concord for the lawls. You still see some of this crap surrounding the lead in for Marathon.

Ppl hate on all the games, including bestselling juggernauts like mk8 (now mk world) or even gta5(that sold over 220m copies).
If game is solid and is beloved by community/its playerbase it doesnt matter if even tens of milions other ppl on the net hate on it.

 

[MiguelItUp]

Literally the only thing I've ever seen or heard of about this game has been memes about it being bad lol

While subjective, from what I gathered the game wasn't bad per se. Much like Concord. But they were both incredibly average, and with the types of games they are/were, they NEED to be better than that.

Josh Sobel should make use of this newly found free time he has on his hands and put aside a day to watch all the content Laura Fryer has put up to YouTube over the past 2 years. 8 hours and job done. Highlights below. Then he might learn where they've gone wrong so that history doesn't repeat itself half a decade from now as she predicted it would in the past.

And make no mistake - refusal to acknowledge failings and reconnect with the gaming public (rather than an imagined fluffed-up pink & baby blue all-boxes-ticked imagined version of it) absolutely means it's certain to happen all over again and again.

"From The Creators Of..."
Testing with the target audience.
"Game makers are passionate. They love the game they're making and that means it's very difficult for them to have an objective view of the state of their team and the project."


Studio Culture is a Killer.
"You have to make the game while paying attention to what is going on around you because gaming evolves. What players like changes. You need a studio culture that has a healthy feedback loop." instead of having your peers and chums blow "you caught lightning in a bottle" smoke up your arse.


Games Industry Bubble.
Listen to gamers, don't lecture them.
"One would think these failures would create a moment of crisis, a moment of self-reflection in the industry. That Studios would realize that instead of lecturing gamers about what they should want, they would listen and understand their fans - you know, the people who want to be entertained who want to pay to play their games."


A message To Game Developers.
How to respond to criticism, take it on board and use it instead of burning bridges, reacting, fingers-in-ears blaming content creators for your own failings.


The Industry's Unlearned Lessons.
"They had plenty of people trying the game. And when you have that many people trying and then leaving, it's not a marketing problem. It's the game. The issues within the game were bad enough that people left and didn't come back."
Marketing. Content creators. Gamers. Blame whomever gives you the most likes on twitter I guess. But the problem is always the game. People will stick around if the game's great. 97k to sub-1K in under a fortnite - it's the game.


She predicted it and Wildlight fulfilled it. Why Highguard looks like another cautionary tale. Yep, you proved all the above. Well done.

I love when people reference her as opposed to the loud obnoxious grifting ragebait content creators. She's worked in the industry for decades, and is clearly in the know.

 

[Arsic]

GAF won't even read what he wrote but I did and he's spot on. He takes blame but also points to what didn't help from the gamers side/creators side with facts and data.

I completely agree that if a game auto gets deemed "concord like" now by grifters like Asmon who doesn't even play games now, you're fucked. People just echo his shit brained opinion.

Even without him, you saw players play less than a hour not complete tutorial and review bomb it. Steam reviews are some of the most toxic and dumb shit akin to meta critic at this point. Both are worthless and shouldn't exist or have some massive restructuring to provide more validity.

I'd love to see steam reviews work like this for a shooter f2p title:
-Must play 20 matches
-If the game has server issues you can check a box at any point to raise a red flag to say "as of xxx date this game has xxx users saying this has server issues"
-Same for performance issues

That way if the game has function issues you can warn others right away but if you want to give a review you need to engage with the game for several hours first.

 

[lughnasadh123]

Ppl hate on all the games, including bestselling juggernauts like mk8 (now mk world) or even gta5(that sold over 220m copies).
If game is solid and is beloved by community/its playerbase it doesnt matter if even tens of milions other ppl on the net hate on it.

Not all games nor equally. I'm not laying the devs failure solely at the feet of gamers as they made the product, but just that sometimes you see a wave of arbitrary negative sentiment based on petty stuff that's incredibly hard to overcome.

 

[HRK69]

Let's be honest, he definitely did.

I'd cry too if my design didn't go any further than a level littered with chests containing the same three identical items.

It's honestly one of the most uninspired games I've seen in a while

 

[Fake]

How is the kid controlling that account?

 

[Neon Xenon]

There was actually a point where PC Gamer had actual value and didn't post worthless, Twitter-infested, clickbait shit like this, but seeing them getting corrected through the community notes (one of the very few GOOD things about that fuckass platform) here is funny.

 

[Aressa]

Haven't most people here predicted its failure since it was revealed?

 

[PeteBull]

Haven't most people here predicted its failure since it was revealed?

Every1 beside devs and its most loyal zealots knew game gonna bomb, blame toxic positivity for that- aka u arent allowed to give honest feadback coz imediately u are called all kinds of names, same thing gonna happen with horizon 600lbs life gaas too

 

[Aressa]

Every1 beside devs and its most loyal zealots knew game gonna bomb, blame toxic positivity for that- aka u arent allowed to give honest feadback coz imediately u are called all kinds of names, same thing gonna happen with horizon 600lbs life gaas too

I'd argue that even the bad "gamer culture" brought more exposure to the game which makes its failure even worse.

 

[schaft0620]

Irrelevant. Almost 100k people gave it a shot. Take away 14k and it's still a good start. They didn't retain players.

Every year thousands of games come out and there are a few where it just becomes cool to shit on them.

Every year there are a few bad ones and they somehow manage to becomes cool.

Marvel Rivals is a Korean mod of Overwatch and its like the most popular game on the planet right now.

 

[Mr Reasonable]

I kinda think he's right, tbh.

People make a snap decision on it and a hate campaign kicks off practically immediately. There's no "the trailer didn't do it for me, but I'll wait and see what the reviews say" it's just an undending cascade of shit posting from the first reaction onwards.

I'm surprised so many enlightened gamers are so quick to jump on these hate bandwagons.

 

[mitch1971]

Internal feedback was positive.

From this guy...?

 

[jason10mm]

We're one step away from california commie devs labeling everyone who doesn't buy/play their slop a chud/right wing hatemonger and an enemy of the people.

oh, we are well past that. Just look at the press junket for Star Trek Academy, they were calling out the haters before the pilot aired!

They know they are making shit, they took at ESG score loan and ran with it.

 

[SomeNorseGuy]

So when a game succeeds gamers and content creators has ZERO influence.

But when a game fails gamers and content creators have ALL the influence.

Wow, interesting how that works.

 

[Shadowstar39]

I don't know the game, flew totally under my radar, don't know much feedback either.
The explanation sounds a bit weird, but while some devs really create their own bubble and can't fathom that someone that goes in blind might just not get whatever genius idea they had, there is also some truth to gamers hate as some sort of sport.

eg Brutal Legend was imho an awesome game, but the game undeniable confused people and many did not get it at all.
Concord is probably not even a terrible game, not a total failure as the almost immediate shutdown suggests, but just not something the market wanted (right now). Certainly no Gollum like unfinished desaster, but being a major Sony release, it got much more (negative) attention and was just hammered and laughed at.
Online is pretty hostile now I think. Back4Blood or Evolve got some negative feedback back then, but were not destroyed, APB or Hellgate London were both flops, but somehow got revived. Somewhen after Avengers people kinda got into trashing everything that is not super great. Any dev or publisher wants some Gaas pie, but average stuff absolutely gets hated if not perceived as great. I am not much of an MP guy, so Arc Raiders, Marathon, Concord, Payday, Fairgames look practically all the same to me. Repetitive loops. But the mp crowd is just brutal in picking their favorites.

Hellgate london got revived? when? All I see is a korean version from 2018 and the reviews say its slapped together shit.

I bought Hellgate at launch and I had fun with it. I know, unpopular opinion. The graphics weren't great and the levels very linear but it had diablo like loot before borderlands was even out. I enjoyed it, while I played it. It could of been so much more though, and was really lacking.

 

[Plague Doctor]

The logic behind "It's terrible practice to voice disapproval when something is revealed without playing it (and most cases spending money on it)" is funny because not a single person in the pubs, devs, and press seemed all too concerned with blind and loud hype on reveals with no first hand experience.

So apparently, the issue isn't "how can you judge something without trying it first." The issue is if it will hurt the product and service, right? Blind love on a trailer is totes cool but if you don't like it, shut up and wait for "professrional" reviewers. People who understand games better than you give their opinion. And even after that, quietly disapprove.

The ole... "if you don't have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all, " right?

Just consume. Buy. Don't hurt sales. Shut the fuck up with your negative opnions.

It's a cute little hustle to shout down "the haters" and "The hatewagon".

 

[Arsic]

Every1 beside devs and its most loyal zealots knew game gonna bomb, blame toxic positivity for that- aka u arent allowed to give honest feadback coz imediately u are called all kinds of names, same thing gonna happen with horizon 600lbs life gaas too

And yet that didn't happen. Devs have taken various blames, players also admit the core issues and offered feedback.

The internet simply does not want this game to exist or have a comeback story. Simple as that.

People scream why isn't this 5v5? They add it a few days later. Folks say where the fuck is ranked, stats, and these guns need changes, the loot, and more—- devs do that within a week.

The damage was already done because:
-It pissed off everyone it was the last game of the game awards. Shouldn't have been. Plus Geoff tripling down and talking shit on social media made it worse.
-Secondly devs massively fucked up by not having several betas or calling this early access first. They needed feedback for 6 months and they needed real marketing showing off classes etc.

There was no timeline where this game had a chance once the hate train started.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

Every year thousands of games come out and there are a few where it just becomes cool to shit on them.

Every year there are a few bad ones and they somehow manage to becomes cool.

Marvel Rivals is a Korean mod of Overwatch and its like the most popular game on the planet right now.

Very bad example, since people shitted on Marvel Rivals in the beginning. But guess what. It's actually a great game that now players love. It's what happens when you make a genuine product that people like.

And it's Chinese, not Korean.

Highguard was a game made by narcissistic devs who forgot they needed an audience to survive.

 

[PeteBull]

I kinda think he's right, tbh.

People make a snap decision on it and a hate campaign kicks off practically immediately. There's no "the trailer didn't do it for me, but I'll wait and see what the reviews say" it's just an undending cascade of shit posting from the first reaction onwards.

I'm surprised so many enlightened gamers are so quick to jump on these hate bandwagons.

Completely diseagree, 95%+ audience for this genre are teenage boys/young men, aka not angsty teenage girls who gotta follow trends and need to check on social media if what they do/think is "right".
Back in the 80s and 90s every1 told us gamers that our beloved form of entertainment is for kids, nerds and losers, and we didnt give a flying fuck.
Sole proof there was tons of ppl interested in the game is day1 numbers it did- 97249 peak ccu- they all checked it out, realised it sux and left.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Who knew a tech artist dude whose worked at Wildlight for 2.5 years knew so much about business, marketing and how customers should think. Someone promote him to CEO at his next company please! lol

 

[Trilobit]

No there really hasn't been a lot of games that have overcome it, not to this extent, and those two aren't good examples for a number of reasons. NMS came out 10 years ago — this influencer ragebait culture wasn't as prevalent, TikTok didn't even exist back then. CP77 was a massive game that sold like 10 million right off the bat, the situations were different.

My brother in tights, were you not there when NMS released? It was basically the Battle of Thermopylae with every corner of the internet up in arms against the game and studio. They navigated a shitstorm of epic proportions and eventually updated the game into the beloved game we see today.

They did it through humility and sheer effort.

 

[PeteBull]

And yet that didn't happen. Devs have taken various blames, players also admit the core issues and offered feedback.

The internet simply does not want this game to exist or have a comeback story. Simple as that.

People scream why isn't this 5v5? They add it a few days later. Folks say where the fuck is ranked, stats, and these guns need changes, the loot, and more—- devs do that within a week.

The damage was already done because:
-It pissed off everyone it was the last game of the game awards. Shouldn't have been. Plus Geoff tripling down and talking shit on social media made it worse.
-Secondly devs massively fucked up by not having several betas or calling this early access first. They needed feedback for 6 months and they needed real marketing showing off classes etc.

There was no timeline where this game had a chance once the hate train started.

Tons of ppl tested game for themselfs, they just didnt like it, accept the truth bro.
Its not the rain, some1 is spitting in ur face simply, no need to be delulu about it, or u end up like woke GAAS devteams- totally clueless and jobless
Dont listen to sellout journos or "industry icons" like geof, colin or even shu, listen to ppl who actually have to play it, aka ur customer base- those hate it.

The sooner developers realise this simple rule the higher chance there is their product succeds and they dont end up on the streets/working as a barista

 

[StreetsofBeige]

My brother in tights, were you not there when NMS released? It was basically the Battle of Thermopylae with every corner of the internet up in arms against the game and studio. They navigated a shitstorm of epic proportions and eventually updated the game into the beloved game we see today.

They did it through humility and sheer effort.

Yup.

Never cared for NMS and that Murray guy scammed lots of gamers with his misleading claims about the game saying Yes to everything but the kitchen sink. But over time, they still improved the game, added tons of content and even now still keep working on it. So got to give credit.

A key reason is they made some sales on it to help keep the coffers alive and when it launched the studio I think only had 10-20 people. NMS had a lot of hype as it was a cool concept with nice sci fi art. So way easier to float the studio while Wildlight had 100 promoting a hero shooter nobody wanted made worse being a content deprived MOBA shooter on giant maps.

 

[lifa-cobex]

Yes, yes,
It's ever bodies else's fault.

 

[Arsic]

Tons of ppl tested game for themselfs, they just didnt like it, accept the truth bro.
Its not the rain, some1 is spitting in ur face simply, no need to be delulu about it, or u end up like woke GAAS devteams- totally clueless and jobless
Dont listen to sellout journos or "industry icons" like geof, colin or even shu, listen to ppl who actually have to play it, aka ur customer base- those hate it.

The sooner developers realise this simple rule the higher chance there is their product succeds and they dont end up on the streets/working as a barista

Right. So the majority who didn't even complete a tutorial that's 5 minutes long are the voice of reason here?

I have 40 hours played. The game is good, but needs more fleshing out. Hence why it should've been early access.

It also for me unfortunately was always a stop gap game until marathon releases.

To which your point would be - how could the game be good enough to retain and keep bringing players back when so many others are fighting for players time? Their roadmap wasn't the one it needs to create a sustainable player base but one if a sustainable one already existed.

The hate is way overdone on this title compared to say concord, which I also played, and that really was a bag of dicks lol.