hardwood007
Member
running x86 games through translation layer/emulation on the latest Qualcomm chip still does not match Steam deck in performance and stability
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Youtuber thinks Steam Deck 2 won’t be on ARM
- Thread starter hardwood007
- Start date
running x86 games through translation layer/emulation on the latest Qualcomm chip still does not match Steam deck in performance and stability
The_hunter
Member
The title change 
bender
What time is it?
I was a bit confused too and thought I'd overlooked or missed some ARM rumors.
hardwood007
Member
There's some who pointed to the steam frame and speculated that valve will be using arm for steam deck 2. Even before steam frame was announced, there was some speculation that they might be going arm
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
The Phawx isn't just some random youtuber. He has a deep understanding of handhelds. Maybe the best channel when it comes to that type of stuff. He chosen by Valve for early review of the Deck for this reason.
existensmaximum
Member
Because it's been proven to give you more clicks, unfortunately.What even is that thumbnail. Why does he look like he's chewing on a carrot?
Why do Youtubers always have to be like this:
The only advantage ARM brings is battery life, and Valve can easily ensure the Deck 2 has great battery life on x86 by using a big 80Wh battery like the Ally X.
hardwood007
Member
Some one changed the title. That wasn't the title I typed when I posted it. Yeah, I do like his channel, he goes quite in depth with his reviews
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hardwood007
Member
Some one changed the title. I do think he makes good points in the video, and shared it cos I keep seeing online how many think ARM is the future of playing x86 games handheld
diffusionx
Gold Member
Guardian Monkey
Member
Mods in the bad here, let's change Bloomberg to Schreier from now on so all credibility lost.
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AeonGaidenRaiden
Member
I think SD2 is so far off, I mean the current one does so well in many areas. They will focus on the Steam Machine which is essentially a SD2 upgrade.
Kacho
Gold Member
Yeah Phawx is a good channel.
UniformDeliverance
Member
Hate the game, not the player. Watched some videos on this, it has a direct positive impact on video impressions.
Comandr
Member
Came to post this. Title massively undersells his expertise.
Durin
Member
Yeah, I never thought they would either, because the compatibility for ARM is still in the early stages, and performance on the best chips is still weaker than x86 APUs for a handheld-sized device.
The ideal would be for the Steam Deck 2 to use a more custom chip with AMD that offers a decent generational uplift, and on release have it benefit from improved Proton compatibility rather than adding another layer of complexity going to ARM.
They should after the Steam Deck 2 I think try a Steam Deck 2 Mini the size of a PSVita, and market that for older + lower fidelity games (emulation too).
The ideal would be for the Steam Deck 2 to use a more custom chip with AMD that offers a decent generational uplift, and on release have it benefit from improved Proton compatibility rather than adding another layer of complexity going to ARM.
They should after the Steam Deck 2 I think try a Steam Deck 2 Mini the size of a PSVita, and market that for older + lower fidelity games (emulation too).
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
Yep, if you're not into stuff like this, then it would just seem like some random dude. Here's Geminis description of The Phawx:
/butthurt rant
Would love to have Cary/Phawx as part of our community like Kepler has done for us lately.
I think that this video is just getting ahead of future speculation. Especially since, as previously mentioned, the steam VR headset will be able to play games right from the same SD card that the steam deck uses so there will be an emulation layer for arm. That might beg the question, could they use the same chipset for a handheld? Steam Deck Lite?
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Why would anyone expect it to be if Steam Deck isn't? Surely you'd expect a similar soc, just later iteration and like Valve said when you can get at least double the power for it, unless otherwise hinted by Valve itself or new developments in socs.
What's next, random youtuber thinks Steam Deck 2 will run Steam OS!
What's next, random youtuber thinks Steam Deck 2 will run Steam OS!
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It's the cuck face they make I think to get exactly this kind of reaction, it supposedly works for their social media engagement or some retarded shit like thatWhat even is that thumbnail. Why does he look like he's chewing on a carrot?
Why do Youtubers always have to be like this:
riko
Member
Extremely unlikely. The lift to good enough x86 emulation like Apple has with Rosetta 2 would be a massive undertaking for a company of Valve's scale, and the opensource just isn't performant enough.
I saw various arguments and they usually would work but I think that ton of people are missing something crucial that is staring directly onto you and somehow everyone misses this elephant in the room.
1. If valve was interested in providing best value or best performance they would choose Windows 11. Instead for Steam Deck 1 they choose linux with all it's problems. They clearly aren't interested in making money on the device itself (even if there is profit involved). They are interested in moving PC gaming from Windows 11.
2. With recent Frame announcement we got to discover that Valve build whole emulation layer for ARM chips to play PC games and wrote their SteamOS to natively support it. This is MAJOR engineering feat.
3. Valve already publicly spoke about their unease with Microsoft and the threat of locking down OS. Remember UWP ? That never went away and rumors go that MS plans to lock Windows behind online accounts for real this time, that's short way from forcing their store since you already have online account ala apple.
4. While there isn't any full scale hardware to make pc like Steam Machine out of ARM chips, proper chips from qualcom are amazing for handhelds, you trade issues for amazing battery life.
Overall I think Valve will use ARM for Steam Deck 2. Their whole mojo is to move Steam out of Windows to system they can fully control and players with it. So they can no longer be threatened by Microsoft. Much like they used Steam Deck to as battering ram to force milions of users to play on linux they will use Steam Deck 2 (and FRAME) to force users to play on ARM.
With those millions of users developers themselves will start to optimize games for that hardware much like they did for steam deck. That's the real goal for Valve. They already make insane amount of money with their store, they don't need trouble with hardware to make money.
And imo that seems to be working. Just 5 years ago i never considered linux for gaming. But after Steam Deck released, community and developers build support over years where now most of the games work on Steam Deck. Now for me personally it is still meh, but MEH is a lot better than NEVER.
Imagine next 10 years with steam deck 2/frame/steam machine after community/valve/devs will build support. Suddenly installing windows won't be "REQUIREMENT" to pay games. Instead marely a option.
Once gaming moves on from Windows, then Valve will be free from threat. That's their real goal.
1. If valve was interested in providing best value or best performance they would choose Windows 11. Instead for Steam Deck 1 they choose linux with all it's problems. They clearly aren't interested in making money on the device itself (even if there is profit involved). They are interested in moving PC gaming from Windows 11.
2. With recent Frame announcement we got to discover that Valve build whole emulation layer for ARM chips to play PC games and wrote their SteamOS to natively support it. This is MAJOR engineering feat.
3. Valve already publicly spoke about their unease with Microsoft and the threat of locking down OS. Remember UWP ? That never went away and rumors go that MS plans to lock Windows behind online accounts for real this time, that's short way from forcing their store since you already have online account ala apple.
4. While there isn't any full scale hardware to make pc like Steam Machine out of ARM chips, proper chips from qualcom are amazing for handhelds, you trade issues for amazing battery life.
Overall I think Valve will use ARM for Steam Deck 2. Their whole mojo is to move Steam out of Windows to system they can fully control and players with it. So they can no longer be threatened by Microsoft. Much like they used Steam Deck to as battering ram to force milions of users to play on linux they will use Steam Deck 2 (and FRAME) to force users to play on ARM.
With those millions of users developers themselves will start to optimize games for that hardware much like they did for steam deck. That's the real goal for Valve. They already make insane amount of money with their store, they don't need trouble with hardware to make money.
And imo that seems to be working. Just 5 years ago i never considered linux for gaming. But after Steam Deck released, community and developers build support over years where now most of the games work on Steam Deck. Now for me personally it is still meh, but MEH is a lot better than NEVER.
Imagine next 10 years with steam deck 2/frame/steam machine after community/valve/devs will build support. Suddenly installing windows won't be "REQUIREMENT" to pay games. Instead marely a option.
Once gaming moves on from Windows, then Valve will be free from threat. That's their real goal.
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Tobimacoss
Banned
Random Neogaf poster thinks there won't be a Steam Deck 2.Why would anyone expect it to be if Steam Deck isn't? Surely you'd expect a similar soc, just later iteration and like Valve said when you can get at least double the power for it, unless otherwise hinted by Valve itself or new developments in socs.
What's next, random youtuber thinks Steam Deck 2 will run Steam OS!
MrCunningham
Member
That's what I was wondering to.. Where did the ARM rumour even start?
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MrCunningham
Member
If Valve does release a Steam Deck 2.. I think they should just go by year numbers.. Steam Deck 2022, Steam Deck 2026, etc.
Tobimacoss
Banned
That's not the issue, there won't be much market for one, with how powerful the Windows handhelds are about to become. And a new competitor on the horizon with PS6 Canis handheld.
PS6 Canis is 16 CU RDNA5. Xbox Handhelds using Magnus AT4 would likely be 12-24 CU RDNA5 SKUs, possibly even 16-24 CU SKUs.
A Deck 2 would never match the 24 CU SKU because Valve doesn't want to create $1000 handhelds. So their handheld would likely be around 12-16 CU, to keep around $600 pricing.
Non AMD, non Xbox Windows Handhelds with Intel will do their separate thing.
MrCunningham
Member
Why would they need to make a system in that price bracket? Outside of the obvious price spikes with DRAM and other components? The Steam Deck was selling pretty damn well before it sold out.
crackajack
Member
In the end it is probably very comparable. ARM got more power in past years, while x86 got quite energy efficient. But Android or Linux +ARM is naturally even more translation layers than just Linux and X86. It is seemingly not impossible, but even more work. It might get there soonish, but for now Valve would be weird if they split their efforts to another platform. Although one might also argue Android and ARM is the mainstream Linux variant that desktop Linux itself might never will be, so maybe with that thought Valve skipping Linux and moving their Proton efforts over might make sense. Moving people away from Windows/IBM-PC might be harder, than bringing Steam and with that Windows games onto already established Android, where devices are increasingly good enough even in lower end devices.
Unknown Soldier
Member
I don't think there was a single person who thought it was going to be on ARM...
neo raider
Member
I cant resist the urge to make a leg joke