Support NeoGAF

[PeteBull]

This is where younger developers need good mentorship. Those who's careers have developed during the time when oversharing thoughts on social media has become normalized are really failing themselves and their co-workers. It's not always younger developers, I know of more senior ones too who have fallen into the trap of needing to log every neural blip and brain fart they have online.

We had the same thing recently with the Highguard developer who felt that they needed to correct the gamers and try telling them that they were wrong and the game was great. I guarantee that there were people on the team who saw that tweet and shook their head in disappointment.

These posts help no one but they do harm relations in the industry.

Yup, what happened to having a bit of dat sweet toxic masculinity and keeping it all piled deep inside, as a dev u cant antagonise the very group u wanna sell ur games to, it always ends in terrible way(game bombing/massive layoffs/studio clousure).
No1 tells devs to abandon their train of thought but at least be somewhat smart about it, u dont bite the hand that feeds u

 

[RafterXL]

Internet Army, do your thing!!!!

Jokes on him, I do most of my shitting on Marathon from work. Besides, isn't "unemployed behavior" just a byproduct of being a western developer these past few years?

You can already see the cope happening on social media, which is how you know this game isn't doing well. All the fanboys are doing their "I'm having fun" rounds in literally any conversation about Marathon and it's future. Nothing has been more telling that all these influencers pop up on X all saying the same shit just days after launch. I don't even need to see numbers at this point, because the patterns of what is happening are so recognizable. Game comes out, is basically a flop, people who like it start attacking "gamers" and telling you "if you play it more you'll like it" people who hate it "aren't real gamers", then the random "I'm enjoying it" shit starts, then other developers see necks on the chopping block and start chiming in to blame the "gamers".

Then the "journalists". who are just PR extensions of developers at this point, start their attack articles for Operation Narrative Change, telling everyone how "terrible people" cause X game to fail, they'll toss in an anecdote about straight dudes or "chuds" for good measure, and we should hate them for it. Then in a few months we'll get an article from TheGamer about how Marathon was "Trans coded" and alt-Nazis killed it as part of the attempted genocide of Trans people. Finally, we'll get the Concord takes where the people who liked Marathon just post their sad "it was a good game" any time the topic comes up again.

We've seen this song and dance a dozen times now, the fun with Marathon has just begun and most of it will happen outside of game.

 

[Diddy X]

Internet Army, do your thing!!!!

Damn, that dev sure played with fire there.

 

[CowboyLou]

I'd be interested in seeing data that supports this. I never thought Marathon would appeal to Destiny players. High stakes PvP and low stakes PvE don't seem like much overlap

Destiny's entire loop was grinding hundreds of hours for slightly better numbers on a gun or armor piece, and players squealed like stuck pigs whenever anything about that loop was altered. Destiny players will shit on Destiny while praising Destiny's gunplay, progression, visuals, worldbuilding endlessly to the point where it becomes painfully obvious that the only thing they're really desperate for is permanence, which is the one thing the game - any game, ultimately - will never give them. They need to look elsewhere in life. Marathon is a giant middle finger to Destiny fans. Marathon has no permanence at all. An incredibly based ending to to the Bungie story tbh.

 

[Kronark]

According to what evidence though? Nintendo gamers don't support Nintendo games like this. Look at Breath of the Wild sales and Metroid Prime 4 sales. What evidence suggests that a meaningful percentage of gamers are "Bungie fans"?

I think essentially everyone buys games that look interesting to them, not games that are made by a certain developer.

I don't think anyone buys a game based off the studio / publisher alone, but I definitely think people factor it in and get excited about projects based on the studio. Capcom, Fromsoft, Remedy, CD Projekt Red, Arc System Works, 11 bit, etc all get my attention based on reputation alone.
I've got Pragmata pre-ordered based on Capcom's reputation and early positive feedback from people I trust. The trailers for it have been kind of underwhelming though.

I think if Bungie hadn't royally screwed Destiny 2 over I might actually be interested in Marathon, but unfortunately I don't trust them at all.

 

[PeteBull]

Damn, that dev sure played with fire there.

In such a comptetive and unsafe business as gaming development on top.

 

[LectureMaster]

Man,

 

[Sohurmk833]

If this is doing even worse on Playstation things will get hilarious very quick.

 

[Gexxy1]

I love how this topic has more discussion than the actual Marathon thread

 

[The Mad Draklor]

Man,

 

[RafterXL]

I love how this topic has more discussion than the actual Marathon thread

What are you talking about? I just dipped in there and they are talking plenty...about this thread. They're having so much fun in their safe space thread that they are constantly checking to see what the rest of us think. It's hilarious, I even saw an "I'm having a blast" post which is hilarious considering my last post, the circle jerk of cope has begun.

And like fucking clockwork, here comes PC Gamer with what I guarantee is the first of many game "journalists" articles doing exactly what I said they would:

 

[falconhoof]

What are you talking about? I just dipped in there and they are talking plenty...about this thread. They're having so much fun in their safe space thread that they are constantly checking to see what the rest of us think. It's hilarious, I even saw an "I'm having a blast" post which is hilarious considering my last post, the circle jerk of cope has begun.

And like fucking clockwork, here comes PC Gamer with what I guarantee is the first of many game "journalists" articles doing exactly what I said they would:

 

[TintoConCasera]

What are you talking about? I just dipped in there and they are talking plenty...about this thread. They're having so much fun in their safe space thread that they are constantly checking to see what the rest of us think. It's hilarious, I even saw an "I'm having a blast" post which is hilarious considering my last post, the circle jerk of cope has begun.

And like fucking clockwork, here comes PC Gamer with what I guarantee is the first of many game "journalists" articles doing exactly what I said they would:

"Maindenless behavior"? Holy cringe. Someone should tell them that making shitty games is "playerless behavior"

 

[Fake]

Man,

So, lets get this straight:

We have a bunch of salty playstation fanboys here and there, defending this game, but they are not even the majority of the players playing the game?

 

[adamsapple]

Man,

You don't need to hear that, this is the only truth that matters.

 

[Hollywood Hitman]

I love how this topic has more discussion than the actual Marathon thread

The OT performing in line with the game

 

[MMaRsu]

Oof so barely anyone on consoles playing

 

[CentralScrutinizer]

What are you talking about? I just dipped in there and they are talking plenty...about this thread. They're having so much fun in their safe space thread that they are constantly checking to see what the rest of us think. It's hilarious, I even saw an "I'm having a blast" post which is hilarious considering my last post, the circle jerk of cope has begun.

And like fucking clockwork, here comes PC Gamer with what I guarantee is the first of many game "journalists" articles doing exactly what I said they would:

THAT explains the low CCU. Marathon's target audience is too busy workin' and fuckin'.

 

[Plague Doctor]

The peak comedy over this launch cycle is how defensive people are over Marathon. We didn't get this level of evangelical zeal with Highguard. Like I really want Sony to send some of these peopke some Bungie Funbucks for a new neon robot skin or whatever weird nerf gun looking skin the game has to offer. They are putting in that non-profit work,

 

[Moridianae]

I see from the hot articles that we're at the "damage control" or "its gamers' fault" phase.

 

[Rocco Schiavone]

Game will be dead in max four weeks.

 

[MMaRsu]

The peak comedy over this launch cycle is how defensive people are over Marathon. We didn't get this level of evagelical zeal with Highguard. Like I really want Sony to send some of these peopke some Bungie Funbucks for a new neon robot skin or whatever weird nerf gun looking skin the game has to offer. They are putting in that non-profit work,

Frfr i got into an argument in a regular Twitch stream I visit, and there were folks there who were saying well Do you know how many people are playing on console? Bungie is a console dev first and foremost.

And basically telling me to stfu with the negativity

 

[MMaRsu]

It would be financially best to shutter the entire thing if I was Sony, but I bet they wont because of the bad press and the concord situation

 

[CowboyLou]

The peak comedy over this launch cycle is how defensive people are over Marathon. We didn't get this level of evagelical zeal with Highguard. Like I really want Sony to send some of these peopke some Bungie Funbucks for a new neon robot skin or whatever weird nerf gun looking skin the game has to offer. They are putting in that non-profit work,

Probably because the game itself is quite good. The people who are enjoying it are generally quite excited about it, it simply has niche appeal. I've roped a couple friends into it just since launch. Setting aside the CCU drama and whatever it means for Bungie and Sony (who cares??), you've never liked an unpopular game and wanted to evangelize it? Or do you only like games that are "safe" to like? Plenty of good and even fantastic games have flopped over the decades.

 

[Guardian Monkey]

I love how this topic has more discussion than the actual Marathon thread

Over 60% of this thread post are the same 12 people. How's that for CCU.

 

[Saber]

Man,

We had a post highlighting that Marathon wasn't even the top among PS games.
If its already difficult on PC, which is free internet area, imagine on PS5. On top of paying for the game a person needs subscription to play online. Thats 2 barriers right there. Genshin Impact had none of them.

 

[Plague Doctor]

Probably because the game itself is quite good. The people who enjoy it are generally quite excited about it, it simply has niche appeal. I've roped a couple friends into it just since launch. Setting aside the CCU drama and whatever it means for Bungie and Sony (who cares??), you've never liked an unpopular game and wanted to evangelize it? Or do you only like games that are "safe" to like? Plenty of good and even fantastic games have flopped over the decades.

No. I have liked games and other media that weren't popular. I did on my own. I gave them my money, played the game, moved on, and engaged with it some more over the course of time.

If someone asked for my opinion or a thread asks for "the best X game", I will share it. I would hype it then.

I have never in my life went into threads or conversations and played hard defense for something I personally liked.

I get nothing out of the deal. I own it already. I played the game already. I supported them with my purchase.

 

[Fake]

Over 60% of this thread post are the same 12 people.

So, who is stopping them to have a discussion in the OT? I know the game have only 3 maps, but still. Resident Evil Requiem OT is having a quite fun discussion.

Maybe we are the problem, right? We are the limiting factor.

 

[PeteBull]

No. I have liked games and other media that weren't popular. I did on my own. I gave them my money, played the game, moved on, and engaged with it some more over the course of time.

If someone asked for my opinion or a thread asks for "the best X game", I will share it. I would hype it then.

I have never in my life went into threads or conversations and played hard defense for something I personally liked.

I get nothing out of the deal. I own it already. I play the game already. I supported them with my purchase.

Same here, i loved star ocean 5 that has 58 metascore, from more recent games of questionable quality i completed ff16 and its 2 expacks.
I never tell ppl those are some amazing games, its just i liked them coz of bias/liking genre etc, objective score for ff16 is probably not higher than 6/10 if even such a biased series fanatic like myself cant give it higher than subjective 8

 

[havoc00]

This number is utterly disheartening. It's like in a real marathon, only a tiny fraction of participants actually finish the race.

 

[CowboyLou]

So, who is stopping them to have a discussion in the OT? Resident Evil Requiem is having a quite fun discussion.

Maybe we are the problem, right?

At the end of the day I'm not particularly happy about the OT coming with a mod warning to stay on topic, avoid drama and ccu shit talking etc., but we all know what it would look like otherwise.

Forum culture being drastically split between those who wish to engage in reasonable discussion vs. those who enjoy shitting noises out their face is a much larger issue that necessitates such precautions, sadly.

 

[mdkirby]

I agree. It seems common for AAA games to follow the movie industry model of 50% production / 50% marketing. I don't have any confirmation of those numbers in Marathon's case but it would not surprise me if they spent 100 million on marketing though I haven't personally seen many ads for it. Sony may have decided to cut their losses with this one and retrieve those marketing costs.

I was just trying to show that even using very conservative cost estimations that Marathon has very likely already failed to hit profitability based on performance we can see. There are many people in this thread that for some reason believe Marathon is a complete success because it didn't immediately shut down.

Yah like its numbers aren't awful for just a regular game by a frugal moderate sized studio and a few years dev, based out of Korea etc.

But for bungie I expect the numbers are pretty catastrophic regardless of if its decent or not.

 

[Plague Doctor]

Same here, i loved star ocean 5 that has 58 metascore, from more recent games of questionable quality i completed ff16 and its 2 expacks.
I never tell ppl those are some amazing games, its just i liked them coz of bias/liking genre etc, objective score for ff16 is probably not higher than 6/10 if even such a biased series fanatic like myself cant give it higher than subjective 8

Yep, someone trashes those games... does it bother you? Do you feel the need to defend its honor from the haters? Do you then cast a large swath of 'gamers' as toxic cause they didn't like those games?

Does it invalidate your enjoyment of those games?

No. That's unhinged.

 

[Fake]

At the end of the day I'm not particularly happy about the OT coming with a mod warning to stay on topic, avoid drama and ccu shit talking etc., but we all know what it would look like otherwise.

Forum culture being drastically split between those who wish to engage in reasonable discussion vs. those who enjoy shitting noises out their face is a much larger issue that necessitates such precautions, sadly.

There is a ignore button right there to be used. This is not resetera. This is not reddit. This is not discord. This is not bluesky.

People can have whatever discussion they want. This snowflake mentality of 'I want just positive discussion, I don't like people shitting on my game' is kinda dumb.

How those people are able to live their lives with that shit mentality? There will be always something you don't like, you don't support, you don't agree, but as a grown ass man you need to learn how to tolerate.
You can't agree with someone 100% of the time.

 

[falconhoof]

It would be financially best to shutter the entire thing if I was Sony, but I bet they wont because of the bad press and the concord situation

I disagree. Too few games are given a chance to find their feet these days due to the all or nothing nature of execs and money holders who base their decision making from bad data.

This game doesn't fit the expectations that people have of Bungie. It's not in the same space as Halo or Destiny; which they said themselves that it wasn't meant to. There are quotes from the Game Director saying that he didn't think this was going to land with the PvE players of Destiny.

If this had been a wild breakout success, then it could have changed the Bungie brand and those execs and money holders would have been happy people, but this clearly isn't a breakout success.

It's not an outright failure though when looking at it as a video game (forget the creator and the budget). I've watched a bunch of hours of it and I don't see why the title can't retain and even build an audience over time. It's not broken or buggy.

I just don't see it as a Bungie title. It's too niche, and certainly not a mainstream looking title with its approach to art.

This is where I'd say the title would be better to be spun off into its own entity under a different brand. Maybe that's not possible now given that it's already known as a Bungie game. But to kill another title so soon, one that isn't fundamentally broken is just sad and won't fix the industries fixation on the all or nothing approach to game development.

 

[Spyxos]

The peak comedy over this launch cycle is how defensive people are over Marathon. We didn't get this level of evangelical zeal with Highguard. Like I really want Sony to send some of these peopke some Bungie Funbucks for a new neon robot skin or whatever weird nerf gun looking skin the game has to offer. They are putting in that non-profit work,

Some people are having fun with it, while Highguard everyone hated. But damn those numbers look really bad.

 

[PeteBull]

At the end of the day I'm not particularly happy about the OT coming with a mod warning to stay on topic, avoid drama and ccu shit talking etc., but we all know what it would look like otherwise.

Forum culture being drastically split between those who wish to engage in reasonable discussion vs. those who enjoy shitting noises out their face is a much larger issue that necessitates such precautions, sadly.

Truth be told thats perfectly fine aproach, i got self-imposed rule to not roam offtopics games i dont play/dont like coz it could definitevely make gaffers who enjoy those games annoyed, same with marathon, i actually want those ppl who bought game/play it to fully enjoy their time.

That doesnt make me any less invested in ccu thread or thinking modern audience gaas games are terrible for industry and sony in particular(its bit different if made by some AA dev or even multiplat publisher, then its usually not a the cost of singleplayer blockbuster games like this gen from sony).

 

[havoc00]

So it's Fairgame$ or Horizon: Hunters and Gatherers going to take the vaunted title of Concord 4?

 

[GermanZepp]

C'mon guys. The game could be fun, the gunplay good and still fail. They aren't mutually exclusive.

Many people saw the red flags early though. That's why it was delayed.

 

[SHAKEZ]

Internet Army, do your thing!!!!

Marathon devs are going to unemploy their behavior real soon.

 

[Kronark]

Man,

But a post in this very thread told me Marathon sold 650k on PC and 2.5 million on console... Are you telling me a fellow gaf member was talking out of their ass?

 

[MMaRsu]

A 6000 player drop from monday to tuesday the same time 1900 UTC

 

[GermanZepp]

Truth be told thats perfectly fine aproach, i got self-imposed rule to not roam offtopics games i dont play/dont like coz it could definitevely make gaffers who enjoy those games annoyed, same with marathon, i actually want those ppl who bought game/play it to fully enjoy their time.

That doesnt make me any less invested in ccu thread or thinking modern audience gaas games are terrible for industry and sony in particular(its bit different if made by some AA dev or even multiplat publisher, then its usually not a the cost of singleplayer blockbuster games like this gen from sony).

Same here . Didn't even click on the OT. For me that's for the folks playing it or with genuine questions, discussions, etc.

 

[CowboyLou]

There is a ignore button right there to be used. This is not resetera. This is not reddit. This is not discord. This is not bluesky.

People can have whatever discussion they want. This snowflake mentality of 'I want just positive discussion, I don't like people shitting on my game' is kinda dumb.

How those people are able to live their lives with that shit mentality? There will be always something you don't like, you don't support, you don't agree, but as a grown ass man you need to learn how to tolerate.
You can't agree with someone 100% of the time.

You can talk tough about GAF not being "those other places", but it's still very heavily moderated compared to the online spaces where I cut my teeth. Got tired of those vibes eventually, outgrew it. I've learned the value of having rules. Now this place is great when people act their age, but since it's the internet, they tend to need a little help and enforcement. Like I said, not exactly thrilled about the need for this artificial thread separation, but at the same time, I spend 99% of my waking hours "tolerating" the real life bullshit around me, so I won't complain too much about having a single safe space.

This is where I'd say the title would be better to be spun off into its own entity under a different brand. Maybe that's not possible now given that it's already known as a Bungie game. But to kill another title so soon, one that isn't fundamentally broken is just sad and won't fix the industries fixation on the all or nothing approach to game development.

I don't know what the future of this game could look like, but I would be surprised if it died an early death. Have people forgotten that Bungie/Sony are still keeping the original Destiny running after all this time?

 

[Roman Empire]

So it Fairgame$ or Horizon: Hunters and Gatherers going to take the vaunted title of Concord 4?

I guess it will have to be Horizon because I don't think Fairgames is seeing the light of day.

 

[Karma_Games]

Marathon devs are going to unemploy their behavior real soon.

But the devs brought such 'big dick energy' to the game.

Should I ask the OT thread if the necklace comes with the battle pass?

 

[Negotiator101]

What time will it peak for the day? It's still below 50,000

 

[SlightlyUnstable]

A 6000 player drop from monday to tuesday the same time 1900 UTC

And dropped a couple spots in best selling. They've been able to keep the numbers fairly stable since they've still had new players coming in to replace players leaving but once the honeymoon period ends and FOMO players drop off it's going to get ugly pretty quickly.

 

[Darchaos]

But the devs brought such 'big dick energy' to the game.

Should I ask the OT thread if the necklace comes with the battle pass?

 

[Karma_Games]

Already got you beat