analog_future
Resident Crybaby
It's limited budgets, time constraints, prioritization, project management, tech and/or engine limitations, etc.. etc.. etc...
The "they're just lazy" is such a fucking stupid statement.
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Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen
- Thread starter ResetEraVetVIP
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It's limited budgets, time constraints, prioritization, project management, tech and/or engine limitations, etc.. etc.. etc...
The "they're just lazy" is such a fucking stupid statement.
Bojji
Gold Member
They focus on wrong things then. Many games are still buggy as fuck, if they can't get that right, those lazy bastards can go fuck themselves. Not having HDR in 2026 is a fucking joke...
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
This may help explain what happened with Forza Horizon 6.
Basically they split the teams into two. One handled the tokyo city, the other the wilderness. You have to wonder if splitting the team created a chasm between the artists where they couldnt collaborate like they used to. Then again, both biomes look mid and lack character so maybe all the good artists went to work on the Fable game.
Basically they split the teams into two. One handled the tokyo city, the other the wilderness. You have to wonder if splitting the team created a chasm between the artists where they couldnt collaborate like they used to. Then again, both biomes look mid and lack character so maybe all the good artists went to work on the Fable game.
Gonzito
Gold Member
I am gonna be honest, I dont see anything crazy with these graphics coming from games like AC Shadows or other modern open worlds. Maybe the pc version will look more impressive in person, Youtube tends to kill detail but I dont know, I dont see anything mindblowing here
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ChiefDada
Gold Member
Alot of the lighting issues we complain about with Horizon is present in this game. Horizon lighting actually looks better imo. And the pop in is very distracting.
GymWolf
Member
It break in certain circumstances.
Displaced maps is basically the screen space reflection of the tesselation world.
Boy i remember when my jaws was on the floor for some shitty bump mapping on riddick xbox...
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mrMUR_96
Member
Damn, that cutscene difference is substantial. I might have to switch to RT for cutscenes or something but that sounds really clunky to have to keep switching lol.Even a little too much actually. Wish there was an option while using PT to keep Capcom RT version of some of the cutscenes because, as impeccable as it is in gameplay and on paper more physically accurate, PT on his own is too crude at this point in time to match the devs artistic efforts.
Just because of how insane Path Tracing is, looks to me the mode was left a little "on his own" in terms of care compared to the regular version. There's a bit of shadows issues at times exclusive to PT because of this.
About the game itself, thought it was a decent release visually. At times a little too last gen in nature, but with some esquisite treats here and there. I legit found most of the cutscenes looking pre-rendered in the regular RT. SSS on that hair strand does wonders. This is on a mere PS5 Pro:
And some gameplay.
GymWolf
Member
It's shit, use a mod to clean the whole thing.
mrMUR_96
Member
This makes me even more depressed about how low effort GOW Ragnarok was in scale for their boss fights. (1st Thor fight was cool though)I never realized how cinematic this game was. Production value looks real high. What an impressive beast of a game. To look as good as it does, to the combat it has, the sheer size and content of it all - for them to still deliver on high level production value is top tier dev in the industry type stuff.
Gifs credit - A Abysse
If that is indeed from the PS5 version, then wow
analog_future
Resident Crybaby
They also are working on Fable concurrently. This all leads me to believe that FH6 is being phoned in because it prints money.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
i had everything on and did not see any ghosting or boiling in PT. its entirely possible that the noise people are reporting in PT is due to people having disabled these post processing features.
See if you can make out any boiling or rt noise in the gif of the scene you liked on the last page.
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Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
It's not just purely about the graphics. The graphics being as good as they are, with what the game has on offer, is what makes it so impressive
Alot of the lighting issues we complain about with Horizon is present in this game. Horizon lighting actually looks better imo. And the pop in is very distracting.
The game is literally bigger than both of those games combined.
It has everything they offer and then more.
Gotta look at the bigger picture here.
Flying vehicles, way larger scale battles, actual towns and cities (Does Shadows even have towns?), physics, more impressive crowds, you can destroy entire towns and cities from above,
fuck it here just look at this
Gonzito
Gold Member
It's not just purely about the graphics. The graphics being as good as they are, with what the game has on offer, is what makes it so impressive
The game is literally bigger than both of those games combined.
It has everything they offer and then more.
Gotta look at the bigger picture here.
Flying vehicles, way larger scale battles, actual towns and cities (Does Shadows even have towns?), physics, more impressive crowds, you can destroy entire towns and cities from above,
fuck it here just look at this
Yes but we are in a thread about next gen graphics papito, not gameplay mechanics
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
You have to consider scale when analyzing graphics, otherwise the thread would be over after HellBlade 2
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Yep. I don't ever hear people saying beyond was the best looking game on the ps3 even though it looked like this.
People look back and pick either gta5 or one of the uncharted or killzone games.
ChiefDada
Gold Member
It's not just purely about the graphics. The graphics being as good as they are, with what the game has on offer, is what makes it so impressive
The game is literally bigger than both of those games combined.
It has everything they offer and then more.
Gotta look at the bigger picture here.
Flying vehicles, way larger scale battles, actual towns and cities (Does Shadows even have towns?), physics, more impressive crowds, you can destroy entire towns and cities from above,
fuck it here just look at this
Like
Gonzito
said, this is the graphics thread. I'm just surprised to see so many improperly lit assets all over the place from a game boasting RT. I'm doubly surprised about the amount of praise this game is receiving from this thread. But hey, I'm glad y'all like it.
Bojji
Gold Member
Like
But hey, I'm glad y'all like it.
But assets would have much worse lighting WITHOUT RT. I always suspected their RT must be light because it runs good on old RDNA cards.
And we are not perfect, we all make mistakes...
BlownUpRich
Member
I was wondering what's with FH6 presentation & graphics wise, it barely feels like a graphical upgrade from FH5, maybe I'm misremembering FH5. It also feels very dead & uninhabited. Hopefully we get better footage cuz…I dunno.
vpance
Member
It's all these daytime scenes that have it looking washed out.
Optimized actually looks better than Quality here I guess because the higher RT setting ends up brightening the areas that are supposed to be more shadowed.
Cumulus
Member
This is the same level of garbage RT as in Doom or Indy. It misses half the smaller objects on screen as well as large parts of the foliage. Add a ton of very visible lod transitions, pop in and mediocre assets and I´m honestly baffled that people glaze this just because of its supposed scale in a graphics thread of all places. From a graphics tech perspective AC:S walks all over this and that wasn`t a small game either.It's all these daytime scenes that have it looking washed out.
Optimized actually looks better than Quality here I guess because the higher RT setting ends up brightening the areas that are supposed to be more shadowed.
Why isn`t there at least an option on PC to put that anemic RT on 11.....
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
MLB The Show 26 is coming out either this week or next week and it still has the last gen visuals they have been pumping out since the start of this gen. That's six years now. They are charging $70 for it. Not $60. Thanks to going multiplatform, they are selling more than ever and make the top 10 or top 20 every single year on NPD charts. And yet they refuse to upgrade the visuals.
EA, voted the worst company in America, had next gen hair on day one in Fifa. They had upgraded lighting and character in Fifa by year 2. RTGI in their first College Football game. Upgraded lighting in Madden by year 4.
Konami a company that left gaming last gen, made Professional Baseball spirits on UE5 with next gen visuals. Amazing lighting, character models, and stadium details. just for the small japanese baseball market.
In this particular scenario, are we blaming the devs? The budgets? Time constraints? Is six years not enough time?
I think good devs somehow manage to get things done. Ubisoft has been gutted and literally sold to tencent. Their devs went out of their way to implement ray tracing, virtualized geometry, hair strands, and all kinds of next gen effects we dont see in Sony first party games that cost $200 million, 5-6 years to make, sold millions, and have all kinds of support for internal and external sony first party support studios that others cant even dream of. SSM had bluepoint of all devs helping make GOW Ragnorak. Who should we blame for Sony's complete lack of graphics focus this gen? Budgets? Time constraints? Project Management? For $200 million 6 year dev cycle games? nah.
ChiefDada
Gold Member
I disagree and that's my main point: I didn't want to say this in the DF thread because I didn't want people to think I was trolling, but some of the interior areas shown in DF review look straight out of Horizon Zero Dawn (not forbidden west). And some outside areas look like less attractive sections from FF 16.
That's actually a great point.
Lol! All hail PSSR 2.0 Cerny da GOAT!!!
Piggoro
Member
I'm looking at all this tech that Crimson Desert shows off and getting annoyed - the tech is amazing, but I have absolutely no desire to play the game itself. Everything looks so cookie-cutter and uncreative. I can't see any spark in it. Just everything, everywhere, all at once, mushed together without any rhyme or reason.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Lighting is definitely better than Indy and Doom. Asset quality is better too. As with youtube, details are going to be blurred out. We have plenty of evidence of the game looking phenomenal with really high quality assets and lighting.
The game has destruction, hair physics, cloth physics, water simulation, fog and smoke simulation, ragdoll physics on everything from NPCs to animals, insane draw distances, lots of big NPC battles not typically seen in modern games, stunning cities, and some of the most breathtaking vistas we've seen this gen. It's getting praise not for one individual thing it does right, its because its getting so many other things right.
If these gifs dont have next gen fidelity i dont know what does:
vpance
Member
Bojji
Gold Member
With PSSR2 Cerny delivered goods.
CD is technically doing WAY more than any Decima game and even more than UE5 games, this has to cost something - and looks like they cut corners in draw distance and quality of the RTGI. I mean, FW looks good overall but I think people have very fond memories of it, it certainly didn't wow me recently (when I tried PC version) vs. how good it looked in 2022.
It's essentially a PS4 game with few upgrades on PS5:
And, have you seen that every NPC has Ai and can attack you back? Something like this was normal in old school games but completely disappeared in modern games, in Avowed you have static NPCs everywhere for example. And when you create mayhem with normal NPCs CPU just get killed and drops frames. Game is computing A LOT.
ResetEraVetVIP
Member
Film grain is an artistic choice, removing it destroys artistic intent. Whenever you change default settings in a game or even use a non calibrated display you aren't getting intent.Not really something that's gonna blow anyone's mind graphically but just wanted to make a note of how cleaner Fatal Frame 2's IQ looks just by a simple film grain toggle.
Cumulus
Member
I seriously couldn`t care less about these gifs when all of the continuous gameplay material so far basically looks a gen behind those the moment people aren`t literally walking towards or away from direct morning/evening sunlight. That stuff always looked good, but diffuse/indirect light is where it`s at most of the time...... see vpance`s examples just a few posts higher how that looks....or simply boot up DF`s new video, the circus spot from your gifs is in there, too, and looks nowhere near as good....Lighting is definitely better than Indy and Doom. Asset quality is better too. As with youtube, details are going to be blurred out. We have plenty of evidence of the game looking phenomenal with really high quality assets and lighting.
The game has destruction, hair physics, cloth physics, water simulation, fog and smoke simulation, ragdoll physics on everything from NPCs to animals, insane draw distances, lots of big NPC battles not typically seen in modern games, stunning cities, and some of the most breathtaking vistas we've seen this gen. It's getting praise not for one individual thing it does right, its because its getting so many other things right.
If these gifs dont have next gen fidelity i dont know what does:
am I supposed to be impressed by ...that?
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adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
ehhhhh, tasteful grain is artistic, this game's case is way too exaggerated, they wouldn't have rushed their asses to add a toggle for launch if the feedback was positive.
ChiefDada
Gold Member
Lighting is definitely better than Indy and Doom. Asset quality is better too. As with youtube, details are going to be blurred out. We have plenty of evidence of the game looking phenomenal with really high quality assets and lighting.
The game has destruction, hair physics, cloth physics, water simulation, fog and smoke simulation, ragdoll physics on everything from NPCs to animals, insane draw distances, lots of big NPC battles not typically seen in modern games, stunning cities, and some of the most breathtaking vistas we've seen this gen. It's getting praise not for one individual thing it does right, its because its getting so many other things right.
If these gifs dont have next gen fidelity i dont know what does:
Ok wow then yeah if this is what the game really looks like i take back the criticism. You didn't alter the gifs in any way?
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I did. I ran them through SoraAI and gave it the following prompts:
Make it next gen. Add fun combat.
March Climber
Member
The moment I know a game looks good is when someone starts using compressed youtube, mid-motion footage screencaps to try and prove that it doesn't.am I supposed to be impressed by ...that?
Xtib81
Member
For real. This game does nothing for me. IGN coverage certainly doesn't help. Game looks boooring.
Cumulus
Member
give me a single actual gameplay vid that looks even remotely as good as the "next gen gifs" outside of very specific morning/evening lighting as that looked great 20 years ago already...
I´d happily eat crow here, but so far I have seen zero actual reason for the glazing at all, at least not for the graphical side of things.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
First of all console footage. Secondly, different time of day, Lastly, youtube compression. We do this with every game during the final preview stage. it wont look like this on our screens.I seriously couldn`t care less about these gifs when all of the continuous gameplay material so far basically looks a gen behind those the moment people aren`t literally walking towards or away from direct morning/evening sunlight. That stuff always looked good, but diffuse/indirect light is where it`s at most of the time...... see vpance`s examples just a few posts higher how that looks....or simply boot up DF`s new video, the circus spot from your gifs is in there, too, and looks nowhere near as good....
am I supposed to be impressed by ...that?
I am not dismissing your concerns about the game's shortcomings or rather the visual shortcomings. I am trying to point out why this thread, and well, the rest of the internet is infatuated with the game. There is a lot of next gen stuff here that we havent seen in other games. They have literally been showing footage every other week and before that, every few months for the last six years. We've seen everything and still think it looks insane. Every game has ugly areas, especially open world games. This game will have its ugly scenes. Especially on consoles.
analog_future
Resident Crybaby
In this particular scenario, we are blaming the publisher and the leadership. It's not like devs are free to float around and choose to add a new physics system or rebuild the lighting from scratch or create whatever new assets they want. These companies are structured, budgeted, managed, and staffed so that devs are working on very specific tasks assigned directly from management. This goes double on something licensed (and therefore very tightly structured) like MLB The Show.
It has quite literally nothing to do with the devs being "lazy" and instead has everything to do with the devs completing exactly what's asked of them by management (who are in turn answering to the publisher).
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Bojji
Gold Member
Film grain is cancer.
Another "let's implement physical defects of film industry into games to enrage players!"
CA, Film Grain, Vingette, Radial Blur, piss filter etc. Even Ai agrees:
"human vision" - First Person Perspective is all about seeing the world through eyes of the character not some fucking old school camera. For third person we can debate but I doubt they had film cameras in medieval fantasy setting.
Dof and motion blur are only effects I can tolerate (depending on how well they are implemented), and those are actually part of the human vision.
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Jesb
Member
It's absolutely tolerable, especially when you switch RR preset to E (can be done in DLSS swapper) - but even with default D it's million times better than RT high mode denoiser.
Cyberpunk still fucking slaps, I'm absolutely stunned that 2020 game can looks this good with Path Tracing:
I really need to get back to this. I got stuck in an area where I needed to get so much credits to continue a mission and I just put it on the back burner to get to when I'm in the mood.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Doesnt seem to have a story with mocapped cutscenes. The game was meant to have a big online base building coop mode iirc and it was scrapped and a lot of the studio was let go. My guess is that the plans for a big story with fancy cutscenes was also scrapped. If there are cutscenes, we havent seen them. The campaign is also around 10 hours with an extra 15 hours of side content so its a fairly short game by modern standards which imo is a good thing. Im tired of 30-40 single player story campaigns.
Other than that, you dont really need big budgets when you have UE5 anymore. Plenty of games this gen have released for $40-50 including big budget ones like Alan Wake 2 and Mafia. Expedition 33 cost only $10 million to make and sold for $45 on PC. I am not surprised this game is $25. The team is probably very small at this point.
The official reasoning mentions a smaller overhead since its self published:
Bojji
Gold Member
I will install HD reworked textures. I think I will replay this game, need some Path Tracing love after RE9...
Cyberpunk 2077 HD Reworked Project
This project aims to improve the graphics by reworking game assets to better quality preserving original art style and good performance.Modification from author of The Witcher 3 HD Reworked Proj
www.nexusmods.com
March Climber
Member
Fortunately for you they are all slowly dying out. Unfortunate for me, because I enjoyed most of these effects when done right artistically during the late PS3/Early PS4 times. And the key term here is 'when done right' because unfortunately for me, too many devs screwed up and utilized them incorrectly, which has lead us to where we are today, PC gamers turning all of it off and dictating the terms of how most games should look.
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vpance
Member
I seriously couldn`t care less about these gifs when all of the continuous gameplay material so far basically looks a gen behind those the moment people aren`t literally walking towards or away from direct morning/evening sunlight. That stuff always looked good, but diffuse/indirect light is where it`s at most of the time...... see vpance`s examples just a few posts higher how that looks....or simply boot up DF`s new video, the circus spot from your gifs is in there, too, and looks nowhere near as good....
am I supposed to be impressed by ...that?
The disparity of visuals is pretty striking depending on time of day. Everyone knows high noon usually looks like shit but this is something else. Curious to see how these lighting conditions look without RT.
analog_future
Resident Crybaby
Yep. I don't ever hear people saying beyond was the best looking game on the ps3 even though it looked like this.
People look back and pick either gta5 or one of the uncharted or killzone games.
People don't talk about Beyond because 95% of the game doesn't look like that. It looks like this:
