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Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen

disappointed standing in the rain GIF

it's called croissant 😡

Jokes aside, about the "lazy devs" trope, which im guilty of using.
To me it started with Wukong. The game was mercilessly ridiculed when they showed it first because it was impossible to do (according to western standard), it was just vaporware made by those deceiving asians, etc.. Then it released and was great, of course there was still some level of bullshotting with trailers and stuff, but overall the chinese devs held on to their word and delivered.
Add to this western game development has become a battleground for political warfare by people that doesn't even really seem to like or care about videogames (from both sides of the political spectrum), and the collusion between the industry and those that are supposed to report on it (the journos). All this made the image of western development (which for me had taken the worldwide lead during the PS3/xbox360 era) take a big hit.

I ended up seeing the western devs as a bunch of crybabies that endlessly complain instead working like their asian counterparts, because they simply couldn't compete anymore. Of course this caricatural view is wrong but there is also really something wrong with western devs (i should say USA devs actually) complaining for anything and everything on twitter, organizing protest because the boss closed a discord group within the company, etc..

And asian devs show us that a lot of what is said impossible by the western devs is actually doable (in an overcompetitive society that sacrifice workers without pity if it can make things more efficient, i should add since i know the cost of doing this type of work and im actually on the side of laziness myself - but i made sure to choose a job according to my laziness so no one is impacted but me...).
its funny you mention the ps360 era because just yesterday i was listening to the soundtrack of Mass Effect 2, and it took me back to that era where every game felt like a new game. Every sequel felt like a huge leap forward. Bioware at its best. ND at the peak of their powers. Rockstar the most productive they've ever been. Ubisoft literally laying down the blueprint for open world games with AC2, Far Cry 3 and Black Flags. Bethesda reinventing the open world RPG genre with skyrim. Rocksteady reviving superhero games. Bungie doing bungie things. And so many more western devs just at the top of their game. And now? Aside from some rare exceptions like Larian and Sandfall Interactive, all these studios have just lost their way.

Some of it has to do with virtue signaling on twitter for sure, but i think we lost a lot of talent during that ps360 and early ps4 era that they just havent been able to replace. They either burned out and went to different industries, or just retired. I am talking exclusively about game design here. I think in terms of graphics, western studios have been mostly good so far this gen, with sony stu8dios being the sole exception.

And yes, anti china rhetoric is common in the west. You look at their architecture, bridges, airports, trains, buildings, etc and they are light years ahead of the west. Or at least the U.S. It's all propaganda because we cant stand that these dudes who were literally dying of famine 60 years ago (up to 50 million by some counts) are more talented and hard working than we are. People look at all these different systems and mechanics in one game and think oh it must be fake because we cant get more than one of these mechanics in our DLC esque sequels from our prestige western studios. Nah, we've just been trained to except the bare minimum and pay $70 for mediocrity.
 
Bit late to the party, but finally finished expedition 33. Visually I was absolutely blown away by the design and scale. Technically it's standard UE5 and I wouldn't put it at the top of my list for raw visual fidelity or anything, but the art direction and scale in encounters they achieved is maybe the best I've ever seen. My jaw dropped so many times just with the beauty of the images I was seeing as I entered new levels or in some great boss moments, just absolutely incredible work and puts the industry to shame with their ambition, I just haven't played a game that felt so fresh and bold in a long time.
It's a breath of fresh air that delivers on all fronts. Incredible story, unique and deep combat system, innovative open world, one of the best soundtracks ever, and stunning visuals during gameplay. It's not the prettiest game in the world as you can explore levels, but during combat it is sublime. The boss animations, cinematography (both in cutscenes and combat) and acting is one of the best ive seen this gen. There are so many cutscenes in this game that just blew me away with their direction, editing and sheer scale of it. Like when they have the people die in the intro, or when they sail to the island, then those incredible endings of Act 1, Act 2 and Act 3. Just magic. Again, yes the story carries it, but if the visuals were not there and if the animation work was janky like it is in most ubisoft/eastern european/actually non-sony games then it wouldnt have hit so hard.

the only thing that i have an issue with is that it won way too many awards. I dont think Jennifer English was that great. Both ben star and gustav's actor did a better job. But Troy baker in Death Stranding 2 was incredible and so was Lea Seydoux. Soundtrack is great, but again Death Stranding 2 had a much better soundtrack. And lastly, its not an RPG so it shouldnt have won the best RPG award. You make one choice in the game at the very end. There is no role playing whatsoever.
 
Indie devs are still working hard. There is this game on Steam were the developer comes out with a new patch every week and they actively engage with users on the Steam forum.

The Western mainstream/triple A industry is just fucked.
 
Exp33 innovative open world? You mean the ff7 style world map or what?
yeah, that. plus i really like the way it opens up as you get the swimming and flying abilities. For decades, Square Enix told us we cant have that kind of open world in a fully 3d game. well, suck a dick. 33 devs straight out of college just showed you how.
 
God, I can't stand image quality in the order. It looks like shit to me, hahaha.
thank-you-the-office.gif


They literally used all the tricks in the shit book:

lower res
black bars
aggressive blur
film grain
CA

The game would sing on a pc with decent IQ.
Youre both right and wrong. It had poor IQ by default. But it wasnt about low res. Thanks to black bars it had actually 1:1 pixel ratio and zero scaling in 1080p screens. It looked blured purely because of postproces effects.
Sometine later however, the game recieved great patch with photomode. And it actually allowed us to save photomode settings and use it during gameplay. Ive beaten this game with zero film grain and CA, with changed exposure, contrast etc. It was really game changer. Game looked quite amazing.
 
Youre both right and wrong. It had poor IQ by default. But it wasnt about low res. Thanks to black bars it had actually 1:1 pixel ratio and zero scaling in 1080p screens. It looked blured purely because of postproces effects.
Sometine later however, the game recieved great patch with photomode. And it actually allowed us to save photomode settings and use it during gameplay. Ive beaten this game with zero film grain and CA, with changed exposure, contrast etc. It was really game changer. Game looked quite amazing.

I have to try this.
 
Youre both right and wrong. It had poor IQ by default. But it wasnt about low res. Thanks to black bars it had actually 1:1 pixel ratio and zero scaling in 1080p screens. It looked blured purely because of postproces effects.
Sometine later however, the game recieved great patch with photomode. And it actually allowed us to save photomode settings and use it during gameplay. Ive beaten this game with zero film grain and CA, with changed exposure, contrast etc. It was really game changer. Game looked quite amazing.
What the fuck? where was this news when i did my second run one year ago? :lollipop_grinning_sweat:

About the resolution, i clearly remember being lower than usual, like 1920x800 instead of the usual 1080p but i'm not gonna insist...
 
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What the fuck? where was this news when i did my second run one year ago? :lollipop_grinning_sweat:

About the resolution, i clearly remember being lower than usual, like 1920x800 instead of the usual 1080p but i'm not gonna insist...
but it was native. there was no upscaling like there is on 720p or 900p games like AC unity and battlefield 4 on xbox one. So it did not introduce any jaggies or other upscaling artifacts on 1080p tvs.

its a clever technique to reduce your gpu overhead without resorting to having the tv upscale your image using their crappy upscalers. of course on 4k tvs, it upscales even the letterboxed image. so yes, it looks worse than it did back at launch when we were all gaming on 1080p screens and got a native image.
 
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but it was native. there was no upscaling like there is on 720p or 900p games like AC unity and battlefield 4 on xbox one. So it did not introduce any jaggies or other upscaling artifacts on 1080p tvs.

its a clever technique to reduce your gpu overhead without resorting to having the tv upscale your image using their crappy upscalers. of course on 4k tvs, it upscales even the letterboxed image. so yes, it looks worse than it did back at launch when we were all gaming on 1080p screens and got a native image.
Maybe it was smart but you still renounce to a decent portion of your screen space with black bars, not something i would want in any other game tbh.
 
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What the fuck? where was this news when i did my second run one year ago? :lollipop_grinning_sweat:

About the resolution, i clearly remember being lower than usual, like 1920x800 instead of the usual 1080p but i'm not gonna insist...
Yes, it was 1920x800. But those missing 280 pixels in vertical axis were just black bars.
Actual displayed pixels were 1:1 ratio with tv. No upscaling at all.
Think of it like running lower res in windowed mode :)

EDIT. To have your setting in gameplay your have to pick "lock grading" option after removing grain and adjusting settings to your liking :-)
 
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That's...not fully true. I'm not saying it's completely gone, I'm saying there have been less and less games using those effects. The loss of certain effects is why gamers keep saying 'games today don't look as good' because the devs are implementing other things to compensate or simply not including the post-processing effects at all that used to be in games of last gen...this stuff:




I think gaming is slowly going through what movies have been going through in the past decade, which is that presentation on the AAA side is looking cleaner, more saturated, and sharper, to the point where things are looking too clean and too 'studio-like'. There have been talks and videos showcasing this issue, and this is one of them:



I still remember how PC players here and elsewhere were convinced in multiple threads (including this one) that their own super saturated, all effects turned off-version of Starfield was the better looking game, and they saw no issue at all with how bad that change looked artistically. That is worrying to me.


I agree that consoles should have more options. People still use the odd reasoning of console players being too confused about too many setting toggles. Idk.

These games felt next level almost too good for the hardware they were on, 11 years later and only few games (Hellblade 2, TLOU 2 sometimes, The Matrix Demo, Ratchet and Clank Rift Apart and the big PC pathtraced games like RE9, Indiana Jones and Cyberpunk 2077.) give me that CGI feel similar to The Order 1886. The Order has that perfect asset quality and smoothness of CGI, reminds me of Marvel 1943...
 
That's the things ain't it.

Better hardware can always improve older games framerate.

But if you design a game from the start for 60fps you risk compromising other things that future hardware won't be able to solve.
Exactly, for example even tho cp2077 technically was crossgen we all remember how lowres and poorly it ran on ps4 and xbone, thats why with pc as lead platform it could spread its wings bit more once ps5/xbox series got next gen patch and obviously fully on pc with proper pt, and later on dlss transformer model(just so we can actually turn on pt w/o playing at single digit fps or/and pixelated af image :P ).

Potential was there from the start and game simply needed more oomph aka more performant hardware, if it was made to run at 1080p60 on ps4/900p 60 on xbone it would look 10times worse.

Thats why im kinda glad game like crimson desert gonna look like vaseline shit at those 720p no rt on series S, it means its actually demanding enough to use much more powerful hardware to its fullest aka there is potential for it to look topend current gen provided powerful enough hardware is there.
 
What the fuck? where was this news when i did my second run one year ago? :lollipop_grinning_sweat:

About the resolution, i clearly remember being lower than usual, like 1920x800 instead of the usual 1080p but i'm not gonna insist...

It works, but you can only really change vignette and film grain. Color filter as well, but other settings are not available.

I discovered another thing, Nvidia App is causing stuttering in games. Not overlay, but if I change ANYTHING about in game DLSS options, there would be stutters in Cyberpunk and TW3 every minute or so (like clockwork).

Looks like nvidia inspector + DLSS swapper combo is the way to go. CP2077 with forced preset E for RR, 40% native res (864p -> 4K). I think results are... great! And zero stutters:

79SK1VBoNju2SBGe.jpeg
JNLIjsDODbiBIh1Z.jpeg
RJsUToxmm2IUvtOd.jpeg
cd1HyVAlBW8fHjvI.jpeg


Same story for RE9:

LbJ59UZxNd8KieHn.jpeg


And inspector settings look like that:

Fv9zn6D9Q3TJdZ52.jpg
 
its funny you mention the ps360 era because just yesterday i was listening to the soundtrack of Mass Effect 2, and it took me back to that era where every game felt like a new game. Every sequel felt like a huge leap forward. Bioware at its best. ND at the peak of their powers. Rockstar the most productive they've ever been. Ubisoft literally laying down the blueprint for open world games with AC2, Far Cry 3 and Black Flags. Bethesda reinventing the open world RPG genre with skyrim. Rocksteady reviving superhero games. Bungie doing bungie things. And so many more western devs just at the top of their game.
Aside from graphics specifically, there are still innovative games with innovative mechanics and ideas coming out, but you are looking in the wrong direction to find them (AAA).

You can still feel that feeling, just by ingesting the hard-to-swallow pill that the new game won't also graphically wow you.

Edit: And before anyone states the obvious, I know this thread is about graphics, but it is clear that Slimy is bringing up more than just that.
 
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Avatar's first DLC is just so good. The draw distance is still a problem in that it doesnt draw shadows on trees or foliage in the distance, but the near distance areas look remarkable. What a beautiful game.

1mfSIVZ.gif


b9yV6jw.gif
 
It works, but you can only really change vignette and film grain. Color filter as well, but other settings are not available.

I discovered another thing, Nvidia App is causing stuttering in games. Not overlay, but if I change ANYTHING about in game DLSS options, there would be stutters in Cyberpunk and TW3 every minute or so (like clockwork).

Looks like nvidia inspector + DLSS swapper combo is the way to go. CP2077 with forced preset E for RR, 40% native res (864p -> 4K). I think results are... great! And zero stutters:

79SK1VBoNju2SBGe.jpeg
JNLIjsDODbiBIh1Z.jpeg
RJsUToxmm2IUvtOd.jpeg
cd1HyVAlBW8fHjvI.jpeg


Same story for RE9:

LbJ59UZxNd8KieHn.jpeg


And inspector settings look like that:

Fv9zn6D9Q3TJdZ52.jpg
What is the best profile for rdr2? 4.5 profile M and performance mode ingame? or is sharpening not exagerated and i can try balanced and quality modes?

Inspector is only useful for games that have RR right?
 
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What is the best profile for rdr2? 4.5 profile M and performance mode ingame? or is sharpening not exagerated and i can try balanced and quality modes?

Inspector is only useful for games that have RR right?
M is better than L in rdr2 as L has serious problems with tree leaves, basically whenever there is 'abrupt' lighting changes (in this case dawn to morning/dusk to night or weather changes ) the distant tree leaves somehow get vanished , very unnatural behaviour. M ain't have this problem in most cases, and still sharper than preset K and fixes the pixelated fog bug (kinda similar to asscreed shadows , whenever there is fog around game shit itself like your monitor or gpu is dying. rdr2 is just a buggy game and cockstar had been given up about it long time ago, doesn't treat dlss too kindly from the very start) , but some stupid tree assets have serious flickering issues as well(mostly Cumberland forest area ), along with couple of cutscenes have noticeable rendering artifacts.
In short if you want to maximize the clarity then M wins easily , but for a stable and hassle free experience older presets even dlss3 cnn models may actually has a chance imo😅 (at least in dlaa mode this is my experience)
 
What is the best profile for rdr2? 4.5 profile M and performance mode ingame? or is sharpening not exagerated and i can try balanced and quality modes?

Inspector is only useful for games that have RR right?

Inspector works like nvidia app and nvidia panel but with WAY more options (all of them are hidden from users in normal nvidia panel).

So you can totally dump nvidia app if you were using it so far (I did for some games) - as it can cause problems.

For RDR2, when I tested 4.5 M profile I was really happy with the results, 4.0 is also good but not perfect. 3.8 is fine as well... Like Jack Howitzer Jack Howitzer said, every version can have pros and cons.
 
The pretentiousness is out of control by some gamers. It's sickening!



It's such a stupid "argument" and obvious virtue signaling.


If people want to play shittier looking games, there's literally ENDLESS options out there. Go play them. Go play Tortured Souls or Romeo is a Dead Man or Tainted Grail or other new games that come out every year that don't impress visually.


But the reality is people don't actually buy those games beyond a fraction of a percent of the number of units that games like RE Requiem sell.
 
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It's not just purely about the graphics. The graphics being as good as they are, with what the game has on offer, is what makes it so impressive

The game is literally bigger than both of those games combined.

It has everything they offer and then more.

Gotta look at the bigger picture here.

Flying vehicles, way larger scale battles, actual towns and cities (Does Shadows even have towns?), physics, more impressive crowds, you can destroy entire towns and cities from above,

fuck it here just look at this

qvgW1Otzvwx4vFec.jpg
It's great to finally see the rest of the industry catching up to the power of the Wii U :)
 
So Keeper is one of the very best looking games ever made. Absolutely exceptional on both an artistic and technical level. It's unbelievably sad to me that this game didn't get the recognition it deserves either commercially or critically. Particularly when games like Sword of the Sea got over-the-top praise for tackling the same genre but worse.

Some of my shots, all gameplay:

SXSOgvFcdV8SBrmF.png
AdWlJ5R3OfzCGNaV.png
TFmBJIu9ZN0Ww1QC.png
p7khLVZVBzgC7DC0.png
deziT7z9F9sOVDjl.png
M2tRJgNJ0yoVzG3u.png
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It's such a stupid "argument" and obvious virtue signaling.


If people want to play shittier looking games, there's literally ENDLESS options out there. Go play them. Go play Tortured Souls or Romeo is a Dead Man or Tainted Grail or other new games that come out every year that don't impress visually.


But the reality is people don't actually buy those games beyond a fraction of a percent of the number of units that games like RE Requiem sell.

I was playing a game recently (maybe the Marathon stress test) that utilizes those clear rubber door flaps and the physics interactions in the original Splinter Cell put it to shame. I'm not much of a graphics whore these days, but I do like attention to detail and "neat" things to interact with. Hard to say it turned me off the game as I didn't have much interest in it in the first place, but it certainly did stand out as cheap and immersion breaking.
 
Never mind…once you enable the REAL highest settings "Cinematic Quality" settings, the game gets very demanding.

RTX 5080 Cinematic quality 4K DLSS Perf w/ RR can't reach 60fps even in what seems to be a very secluded & quiet area…

MKUK3mh1NUgyOPTs.jpeg


Unoptimized garbage YouTube videos incoming!!
 
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So now we can see why Crimson Desert isn't really as demanding as it may seem. (This is from DF's video about the PC version recently dropped minutes ago).

d60BjPP2OUU3nfD7.jpeg


Full video:


PC version for me then, what a difference!
Why the fuck didn't they show that before!?
The shadowless grass looked quite bad in all the footage they've been marketing until now.
Seems after RE9 and now Crimson Desert, 2026 is finally the year I'm fully utilizing my 4070 Ti Super. Again, a 'transformative' visual benefit compared to consoles.
 
So now we can see why Crimson Desert isn't really as demanding as it may seem. (This is from DF's video about the PC version recently dropped minutes ago).

d60BjPP2OUU3nfD7.jpeg
AHAHAHA! Hopefully this makes people realize there is no secret sauce, no magical optimization, no developer mystique, no streamlined Engine architecture. If you want better performance you have to downgrade visual quality. Plain and simple.

Ultra ray tracing on the Pro my ass.

I for one am glad UE5's software lumen can go toe to toe with some of these hardware ray tracing games. i can max them out with no issues since UE5.4 fixed the cpu bottlenecks.
 
Frame gen doesnt work below 60 fps. Both AMD and Nvidia advise getting your framerate above 60 before enabling framegen.

Yes it does.

It starts to feel suboptimal lower than 60fps but it's perfectly usable down to 50fps IMO.

All depends on your tolerance for input lag. In a single player adventure game like this, I think a little additional input lag will feel fine.
 
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So Keeper is one of the very best looking games ever made. Absolutely exceptional on both an artistic and technical level. It's unbelievably sad to me that this game didn't get the recognition it deserves either commercially or critically. Particularly when games like Sword of the Sea got over-the-top praise for tackling the same genre but worse.

Some of my shots, all gameplay:

SXSOgvFcdV8SBrmF.png
AdWlJ5R3OfzCGNaV.png
TFmBJIu9ZN0Ww1QC.png
p7khLVZVBzgC7DC0.png
deziT7z9F9sOVDjl.png
M2tRJgNJ0yoVzG3u.png
XluEirJ1YLZJ7fH2.png
I totally agreed with you up until you brought up Sword of the Sea.

They're different, not worse or better than the other. You don't have to bring down one to lift up the other.
 
Yes it does.

It starts to feel suboptimal lower than 60fps but it's perfectly usable down to 50fps IMO.

All depends on your tolerance for input lag. In a single player adventure game like this, I think a little additional input lag will feel fine.
i said it wrong. it works yes, but they both tell you not to use it below 60 fps. Or at least thats what DF said in one of their videos.
 
thank god for pc. Holy shit, simply pushing the settings up into pc exclusive territory fixes most of my graphical complaints concerning the lighting... Just why the fuck didn`t they show this before in gameplay vids? Maybe because then it suddenly becomes just as heavy as all other games with that sort of tech?

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Comedy Central Thank You GIF by The Jim Jefferies Show
 
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