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[The Verge] Nvidia has lost the plot with gamers

And I started with the nes and every gamer worth a damn knows gameplay > graphics

But if you wanna fawn over fake ai shit then be our guest
We can have both! If you have to pay less for eye candy, you might have more budget to deepen your game on the gameplay side. Since we are probably around the same age, you aren't amaze by the giant steps on the visual department since the 80's?
 
OK nVidia.

As gamers are hyper ventilating over DLSS 5, here is what they should do:

Cease all development on DLSS 5 and all versions of it. Just cease development entirely. Its just taking engineers away from AI development which is now its bread and butter anyways.

Stop all development of consumer level GPU's. Gamers are so mad at nVidia now so whats the point? AI is making so much money for nVidia, consumers GPU';s are just a drop in the bucket when it comes to making money now.

And since consumer level GPI's would stop, no point on wasting money om further driver development especially as gamers have been going NDS (nVidia Derangement Syndrome) on this very subject of late.

AI focus baby. Its where its at!
 
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OK nVidia.

As gamers are hyper ventilating over DLSS 5, here is what they should do:

Cease all development on DLSS 5 and all versions of it. Just cease development entirely. Its just taking engineers away from AI development which is now its bread and butter anyways.

Stop all development of consumer level GPU's. Gamers are so mad at nVidia now so whats the point? AI is making so much money for nVidia, consumers GPU';s are just a drop in the bucket when it comes to making money now.

And since consumer level GPI's would stop, no point on wasting money om further driver development especially as gamers have been going NDS (nVidia Derangement Syndrome) on this very subject of late.

AI focus baby. Its where its at!

They should leave all gaming future technologies to AMD, see how gamers like it.
 
Who knows the actual overhead cost of dlss 5 once its officially out. Could be its only viable for 5080 card and above. In which case only accessible to only 5 % of the pc gaming community.
Majority will make do with boring old 4.5 and below until next gen cards are out and another more palatable version of dlss 5 will be introduced.
 
Art direction be damned. Everything must be AI-slopified so every game looks identical and chase realism.

I'd hate to see Windwaker or Mario Odyssey through this filter.
 
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My problem here is, this is not about putting more "detail" it's more about turning the character to entirely different person.

In DLSS5 on picture looks like she has bigger lips and has more makeup which doesn't at all match to Grace's character.

It's like most generic and soulless way to make her "hot" for porn pop up ads.
Honestly though, how is she a "Entirely different person" ?
left side has zero shading and highlights, very flat.
Add proper lighting and literally everyone will appear "different"
 
chair table GIF by South Park

The best thing that could happen to nVidia right now is to make this about culture wars and not about quality standards. And The Verge have a history of accepting money from corporations.
 
So the verge is only concerned about this because it might make female characters hot... I have no words for how fucking dumb mainstream media is these days.
 
Honestly though, how is she a "Entirely different person" ?
left side has zero shading and highlights, very flat.
Add proper lighting and literally everyone will appear "different"
Sure, sure.

Proper lighting adds lip color, lip fillers, removes cheek fat, makes brow ridges more prominent and turns a silver-blonde into a dirty blonde.

Proper lighting also lights up your face, when the actual light source is behind your head.

Proper lighting removes fog and glow from streetlights too.

Proper lighting maintains the exact same prebaked shadow maps in an open area of Starfield where NPCs are mulling about, where you need to be in the 4th dimension to explain how all those shadows line up to the light source. Path tracing isn't proper lighting. DLSS 5 on top of PS3 shadow maps is.

Proper lighting randomly adds special lights specifically to your appendages. Lights that don't exist in the actual game, because why the fuck not? Big black lady's arm is too dark to see in the shadow. Gotta light it up!

Proper lighting removes most, if not all, self shadowing, because people walk around with invisible ring lights suspended in front of them. It's the future after all.

Proper lighting gives everyone dramatic edge lighting too, so that they can all float around the scene with halos around them, like Jesus, even if there is no light source to explain it.

And yes, proper lighting makes the same damn person in the same damn game using the same "lighting" technique look like different people depending on how close to the camera they are. Alex pointed this out too but who cares? She hotttt

And in the most special moments, when you least expect it, proper lighting could change your race too!

I was refraining from commenting on the technical competence of this "lighting system" because I hadn't taken a close enough look. But the more I look at, it's a goddamn joke. Here's what it actually does:

  • Adds an intense SSAO like shadow around everything it identifies as an object in the frame. Doesn't matter where the light source is, how many lights exist in the scene or what the incident angle is, it will just add it anywhere it can get away with, so you can drool over all them new shadows. If the original game had it already, it darkens or blows it out further.
  • Adds SSR wherever it identifies reflective surfaces
  • Edge lights everything it considers a character model
  • Makes them all look like they are front lit even if they are not
  • Adds a bunch of bullshit to their face that it thinks makes them more pleasing to look at
  • Dynamic tone mapping to blow out all subtle details, so you can be blown away, just like those TVs stacked up at Best Buy
Annnnd that's it. There is no actual path traced approximation, modeling of light sources, shadows or interplay. It's a wannabe system operating in 2D space on a single frame that has no clue how lights even work. The reason it's working at all is because the game engine behind it has done all the grunt work before it has been summoned. It's trained on internet footage, a majority of which is authored with artificial lights and post processing, and making best guesses at an admittedly impressive speed. Just a bunch of made up bullshit to keep you drooling. If you actually wanted believable lighting, you need to path trace the game first, like RE: Requiem, so it can dress it up and take all the credit, cuz she so hottttt now. It's the horrible spouse who blames you for his/her negatives and takes credit for your positives.

I noticed how much Alex was pulling his punches during his segments. Pausing and hesitating. Like he didn't want to be too harsh and make his peers look like bumbling charlatans that got too carried away by the shiny new thing. Regardless of what drove them to walk back on their glazing, I respect them for taking it the chin and letting Alex subtly tell them they need their eyes and brains checked.

After examining all the footage, i can confidently say this is not the future of rendering. It isn't even the current of rendering. It's vaporware built on generative AI and the actual things it brings to the table (like SSR, SSAO, "dynamic mode") are the worst aspects of last gen rendering that we have been trying to escape for a decade.

If anyone with any actual technical credentials still marvels at this for being an objective technical leap forward in lighting, check yourselves. It's a completely subjective aesthetic leap at best that falls apart the moment anything moves. This is not even my specific line of work and it still doesn't pass my sniff test. It's not just shitting on art. Clearly a lot of you don't give a fuck about art, integrity or ethics, so there's no point wasting anymore of my time on that. It shits on physics, decades of computer science and common sense.

And for those who want to enjoy this "option", go right ahead. Doesn't change the fact that it is a dumb blonde of an option with the memory of a gold fish, can't read, write or speak any coherent language and changes faces depending on time of day.

Everything I've listed above as observations from footage is evidence based. But I can't even be bothered to make any more image comparisons. It's not worth my time. If you have actually watched all the footage, you will know exactly every instance I'm referring to. If you disagree, l urge you to go take another look and we can debate it.

To save me time in the future, I'm just going to quote this wall of text anytime anyone calls this abomination "lighting" or "technical leap". You have been warned. Lol
 
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Sure, sure.

Proper lighting adds lip color, lip fillers, removes cheek fat, makes brow ridges more prominent and turns a silver-blonde into a dirty blonde.

Proper lighting also lights up your face, when the actual light source is behind your head.

Proper lighting removes fog and glow from streetlights too.

Proper lighting maintains the exact same prebaked shadow maps in an open area of Starfield where NPCs are mulling about, where you need to be in the 4th dimension to explain how all those shadows line up to the light source. Path tracing isn't proper lighting. DLSS 5 on top of PS3 shadow maps is.

Proper lighting randomly adds special lights specifically to your appendages. Lights that don't exist in the actual game, because why the fuck not? Big black lady's arm is too dark to see in the shadow. Gotta light it up!

Proper lighting removes most, if not all, self shadowing, because people walk around with invisible ring lights suspended in front of them. It's the future after all.

Proper lighting gives everyone dramatic edge lighting too, so that they can all float around the scene with halos around them, like Jesus, even if there is no light source to explain it.

And yes, proper lighting makes the same damn person in the same damn game using the same "lighting" technique look like different people depending on how close to the camera they are. Alex pointed this out too but who cares? She hotttt

And in the most special moments, when you least expect it, proper lighting could change your race too!

I was refraining from commenting on the technical competence of this "lighting system" because I hadn't taken a close enough look. But the more I look at, it's a goddamn joke. Here's what it actually does:

  • Adds an intense SSAO like shadow around everything it identifies as an object in the frame. Doesn't matter where the light source is, how many lights exist in the scene or what the incident angle is, it will just add it anywhere it can get away with, so you can drool over all them new shadows. If the original game had it already, it darkens or blows it out further.
  • Adds SSR wherever it identifies reflective surfaces
  • Edge lights everything it considers a character model
  • Makes them all look like they are front lit even if they are not
  • Adds a bunch of bullshit to their face that it thinks makes them more pleasing to look at
  • Dynamic tone mapping to blow out all subtle details, so you can be blown away, just like those TVs stacked up at Best Buy
Annnnd that's it. There is no actual path traced approximation, modeling of light sources, shadows or interplay. It's a wannabe system operating in 2D space on a single frame that has no clue how lights even work. The reason it's working at all is because the game engine behind it has done all the grunt work before it has been summoned. It's trained on internet footage, a majority of which is authored with artificial lights and post processing, and making best guesses at an admittedly impressive speed. Just a bunch of made up bullshit to keep you drooling. If you actually wanted believable lighting, you need to path trace the game first, like RE: Requiem, so it can dress it up and take all the credit, cuz she so hottttt now. It's the horrible spouse who blames you for his/her negatives and takes credit for your positives.

I noticed how much Alex was pulling his punches during his segments. Pausing and hesitating. Like he didn't want to be too harsh and make his peers look like bumbling charlatans that got too carried away by the shiny new thing. Regardless of what drove them to walk back on their glazing, I respect them for taking it the chin and letting Alex subtly tell them they need their eyes and brains checked.

After examining all the footage, i can confidently say this is not the future of rendering. It isn't even the current of rendering. It's vaporware built on generative AI and the actual things it brings to the table (like SSR, SSAO, "dynamic mode") are the worst aspects of last gen rendering that we have been trying to escape for a decade.

If anyone with any actual technical credentials still marvels at this for being an objective technical leap forward in lighting, check yourselves. It's a completely subjective aesthetic leap at best that falls apart the moment anything moves. This is not even my specific line of work and it still doesn't pass my sniff test. It's not just shitting on art. Clearly a lot of you don't give a fuck about art, integrity or ethics, so there's no point wasting anymore of my time on that. It shits on physics, decades of computer science and common sense.

And for those who want to enjoy this "option", go right ahead. Doesn't change the fact that it is a dumb blonde of an option with the memory of a gold fish, can't read, write or speak any coherent language and changes faces depending on time of day.

Everything I've listed above as observations from footage is evidence based. But I can't even be bothered to make any more image comparisons. It's not worth my time. If you have actually watched all the footage, you will know exactly every instance I'm referring to. If you disagree, l urge you to go take another look and we can debate it.

To save me time in the future, I'm just going to quote this wall of text anytime anyone calls this abomination "lighting" or "technical leap". You have been warned. Lol

Personally I think the lighting on display is quite the technical leap forward.
 
Personally I think the lighting on display is quite the technical leap forward.
Fucking Christ, how do you read all of that and come back with what amounts to "no" as a response. Absolutely no push back on the arguments being presented or even acknowledgment of what is being said, just "NO". Did you even understand what was being said or the (very correct, as far as what can be analyzed from current footage) points being made ?

brainlet-shaking-plug-soyboy-wojaks.gif
 
I've no idea what most of the people in here complaining are even babbling about. This is optional. Most of the examples shown of what this tech does clearly display a marked improvement visually in comparison to the original content. It has already been stated that the devs have the ability to tailor DLSS5 output to their preference. Also, this tech can provide remake level experiences of old games that support it. What exactly is the downside here? I'm just not seeing it.

Lets be real, the reason many of you have your panties in a bunch over this is if gamers can potentially use this technology to customise the look of characters, particularly women. This tech can be used to completely remove the current day uglification of women in games; effectively, it undermines everything leftists have been able to achieve these past years. Personally, I cant wait for the ability to have custom prompts in games that allow me to modify the mannish, ugly western women the fuck outta the games I bypassed cause of twisted current day ideological perspectives.
 
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Nah, I disagree, simply for the fact that we can tell when something is expertly crafted vs. made by generative AI or just an asset flip UE5 "game."

If it ever gets to the point where we can no longer tell the difference in quality between Red Dead Redemption 2 and something like the The Day Before, then I'll agree with you, but there's no indication that future is coming.

I don't know if that level of precision exists. An AI-generated image may have already passed in front of you without you noticing.
The interesting thing is that the more expertise a person has in art and photography, the better prompts they could give to a generative AI to generate an incredible image, without looking like it was created by GenAI.

In DLSS5 she wearing full makeup which is not something like shut-in girl like Grace would do.


pjIZk4iwBtHRHSjU.png
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This is not "lighting" they have very different lips.

Same photo, different lighting angles, "seemingly" different lip shapes.

theyre-really-trying-to-gaslight-you-into-not-believing-v0-7d40urololpg1.png
 
Same photo, different lighting angles, "seemingly" different lip shapes.

theyre-really-trying-to-gaslight-you-into-not-believing-v0-7d40urololpg1.png
Mind blowing truth bomb that nobody knew. So why are there different lighting angles in the same game for the same scene where the light source is exactly the same? Do you even know where the light source for those grace shots are? It's the sky above her head occluded by a bridge and a street lamp behind. Those are the only two light sources, both static, that would contribute anything to the scene. Both would make her face appear in shadow. Not light up like with ring lights. So what's making her lips change?

Half of these "counters" that are seemingly technical are as shallow as this tech itself. Just pick from internet/chatgpt and hit send.
 
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Mind blowing truth bomb that nobody knew. So why are there different lighting angles in the same game for the same scene where the light source is exactly the same? Do you even know where the light source for those grace shots are? It's the sky above her head occluded by a bridge and a street lamp behind. Those are the only two light sources, both static that would contribute anything to the scene. Both would make her face appear in shadow. Not light up like with ring lights. So what's making her lips change?

Half of these "counters" that are seemingly technical are as shallow as this tech itself

The scenes are a little different due to the character's animation. The light comes from the sky, and because of that, the image generated by DLSS is more accurate in showing where the light hits and where it would create shadows.
Not to mention that the subsurface scattering effect (light penetrating the skin) is more pronounced, generating light information where it wasn't so visible before.

8-Figure5-1.png
 
Fucking Christ, how do you read all of that and come back with what amounts to "no" as a response. Absolutely no push back on the arguments being presented or even acknowledgment of what is being said, just "NO". Did you even understand what was being said or the (very correct, as far as what can be analyzed from current footage) points being made ?

brainlet-shaking-plug-soyboy-wojaks.gif

Dude... Read the last paragraph...
 
I want to see this applied to a Jeff Minter game. It would probably fry Jensen and his robotic minions' souless little minds.

Problem solved.
 
The scenes are a little different due to the character's animation.
What the what... I don't even...

Ok...

You know why youtubers called this out the the second they saw this? Because they know what faked lighting is, even if they have no technical knowledge about it. They literally use soft light boxes and ring lights so there are no harsh shadows on their face all day long. And when you see that in a shot out in the open with primarily dim, overhead, natural lights that are heavily occluded, you can immediately tell it's bullshit. That's why they reacted first. Not because it's AI. They all use AI day and night, for thumbnails, post processing, DLSS, FSR, PSSR etc. They reacted because it's all studio-lit bullshit with ring lights or reflectors as they use in cinema. What you are seeing is faked lights so she can look insta good. That's it. No lighting accuracy or path tracing or actual calculation of where shadows should go. This isn't an anti AI crusade. It's an anti-bullshit crusade.
 
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