winjer
Gold Member
The difference id TFLOPs is not that big.
Besides, we have seen FSR4 run on a 6600XT well enough.
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FSR4 on RDNA2 and 3 comparison
- Thread starter winjer
- Start date
The difference id TFLOPs is not that big.
Besides, we have seen FSR4 run on a 6600XT well enough.
No I'm talking about TOPs not TF. TOPs helps to have more calculations AI based in less time. FSR4 is AI based in the end. XSX is not well equipped for such stuff and it could take more GPU mss especially working at lower resolution.
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winjer
Gold Member
RDNA uses dp4a, do TOPs are run on the same shaders.
Minsc
Gold Member
The main takeaway for me really is the Ryzen Ai MAX+ 395 miniPCs are going to thrive with FSR4 now. They were already a generation or two ahead of the handheld hardware out now, but with FSR4 that will keep them relevant for many years to come. Though all the handhelds also see the FSR4 gains, however they do not have the AI cores like those Ryzen 395 chips, so I have always expected they would age pretty well, for an all-in-one solution with no dGPU.
Loomy
Thinks Microaggressions are Real
The slow comment was sarcasm because some people are giving AMD shit for not releasing an unfinished project.
And? You need an optimal AI hardware to run AI upscaler, I doubt xsx can run a full fat FSR4 without any problems as for example ps5 pro because now "it works" on pc. Doesnt seems realistic to me. Maybe can do something more close to the DLSS on switch 2, obviously better but we have to see I guess how effective it's for resolution below 1080p compared FSR3.
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kevboard
Member
the Series X should have no issue running this leaked FSR4 version, neither should it have any issue running XeSS. of course these versions of either aren't as good as the "full" quality versions that run on the intended dedicated hardware, but they are very competent already, even on low end hardware like the Steam Deck and other handheld systems
winjer
Gold Member
What part don't you understand that the Series X and the 6750XT have the same hardware.
Cu count and clocks speed vary, but they are not that far apart.
And even a 6600XT can run FSR4.
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What part you don't understand about to have a discrete number of TOPs to run AI instructions for AI upscaler. I just expressed my doubt about the effectiveness and the cost on the XSX hardware.
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Closer
Member
But AMD was the one that leaked FSR4 for RDNA2/3, and they're the ones developing this version. This is their move.
winjer
Gold Member
What numbers for TOPs do you think these the Series X and 6750XT have?
Very low if I remember correctly.
winjer
Gold Member
Tell me the numbers you have. Go.
Why you ask me something you know? I don't remind the precise number but it's not remotely close to the ps5 pro. I guess you have to stay around this number to run an ai upscaler properly.
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winjer
Gold Member
I know exactly how many TOPs each has. But I really want to know how much do you think they have, for you to make such a statement that the Series X is unable to run FSR4.
Bojji
Gold Member
On RDNA2 Xess/FSR4 Int8 run on shaders - Xbox Series X support the same instructions as RDNA2 PC GPUs so it IS able to run those reconstruction techniques in games. Regular PS5 on the other hand is outdated in this aspect.
But I doubt we will see it in action.
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Not even half of the ps5 pro if I'm not wrong.
I never said is not able to run FSR4. I doubt it can run it without compromises or excessive costs because there isn't the hardware TOPs number for obvious reasons.
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winjer
Gold Member
The PS5 Pro has dedicated hardware. That is not the point.
The matter is that the Xbox Series X can do 48 TOPs total, using dp4a.
The 6750XT can to 53 TOPs, also using dp4a. It's not a huge difference.
And the 6600XT, can do 42.4 TOPs.
Of course that RDNA2 will never be able to run FSR4 as well as a chip that has support for ML.
But it can run it and it looks almost as good as FSR4 FP8. And even in the performance mode, it will look better than FSR3.1.
I want to remind to you even high AF is still expensive for console hardware but not on pc so I will be careful to say "because it works on pc it will work as the same on XSX".
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kevboard
Member
the costs don't seem all that extreme on PC so far. especially considering that you can reduce render costs elsewhere because it allows a lower input resolution when using FSR4 to look better than FSR3 with a higher input resolution.
if FSR4 balanced mode looks better than FSR3 quality mode, the increased cost of FSR4 it's not really an issue.
winjer
Gold Member
Once again, ML runs mostly on L1 and L2.
And the Series X has more memory bandwidth that a 6750XT and much more than a 6600XT.
Jesus if you are obtuse. Believe whatever you want what I can say.
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winjer
Gold Member
Of the two of us, I'm the only one that has presented numbers and facts.
Just keep that in mind.
What fact? You presume it.
winjer
Gold Member
No, all those numbers are public.
And you still haven't disputed in a technical way, why the Series X can't run FSR4 Int8, when even a 6600XT can.
I never say it can't run it. Can you stop to be so childish. I said the TOPs number is so scarse on XSX which I doubt FSR4 will be the same as RDNA4. Nothing more.
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winjer
Gold Member
WTF, you just spent half a thread saying you doubt the Series X can run FSR4.
I said feasible to be fair. Use it properly or whatever. Goodbye tough xbox warrior
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The Mad Draklor
Member
I said feasible to be fair. Use it properly or whatever. Goodbye
I guess you conveniently "forgot"...
rnlval
Member
FSR4 INT8 works with frame rate gains on the Steam Deck.
winjer
Gold Member
FSR 4 auf RDNA 2 & 3 im Test
Per „Hack“ ist FSR 4 auch auf Grafikkarten mit RDNA 2 (RX 6000) und RDNA 3 (RX 7000) lauffähig. Qualität und Performance im Test.
Lot's of more individual tests in the article, but here are the averages.
rnlval
Member
FSR 4 FP8 hardware support is only for RDNA 4.
For RDNA 3, Linux camp's early FSR4 FP8 is using the slower FP16.
The recent FSR 4.0.2 leak has the FSR 4 INT8 model from 2024. RDNA 3 still has WMMA INT8 that is beyond the RDNA 2 era DPA4. If AMD officially supports FSR4 for RDNA 3.x, it most likely WMMA INT8 variant instead of the earlier FSR 4.0.2 's DPA4 INT8.
RDNA 4 has WMMA INT8, WMMA FP8, and DPA4 INT8.
RDNA 3 has WMMA INT8 and DPA4 INT8.
RDNA 2 has DPA4 INT8.
AMD still sells RDNA 2-equipped APUs and GPUs as new in the embedded markets e.g. Tesla Motor's NAVI 23 GPU.
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mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
So is AMD going to officially release this to their PC GPUs soon?
rnlval
Member
Who knows. AMD still sells RDNA 2 and RDNA 3.0/3.5 as new products in APUs/SoCs and embedded IoT markets e.g. AMD's automotive NAVI 23 for Tesla Motors' EV Infotainment.
kevboard
Member
probably. you have to ask yourself why this exists. the only reason this has any reason to exist is if they want to support their older GPUs with an XeSS alternative.
rnlval
Member
AsRock's BC-250 SKU recycles PS5 APU with an active GPU with 24 CU scale and six-core compact Zen 2s. For Linux, BC-250's PS5 GPU is not the full RDNA 2 GPU as per DX12U, hence RDNA 1 drivers need to be used. PS5 GPU has RDNA 2 RT, but is missing RDNA 2's other DX12U improvements.
How many ms? If some games like Crimson Desert are not doing FSR3 on performance mode because it's 1 to 1.5ms cost, how do you expect they are using a 5-7ms model?
Also 6600XT have 32MB infinity cache, you are not getting the same performance on XSX with no IC
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winjer
Gold Member
If a 7900XTX is having an additional 6ms cost over FSR3 upscaling at 4k. You can imagine how RDNA2 or slower RDNA3 cards perform
Bojji
Gold Member
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Truth to be told, if AMD officially released it for RDNA2/3 and it did not perform very well on most games they would also be on the receiving end of the hate and mockery they are now for not releasing it, maybe worse.
Are we really here pretending that those with pitchforks do not have a preconceived notion that FSR4.1 should easily perform well on most games on RDNA3 and even RDNA2 and if it does not the only explanation is AMD's lazy / incompetent / doing nasty market segmentation?
Under those circumstances I would not blame AMD that much for not going through the trouble, it is engineering time they could be spending on somewhere else that gives you better results (opportunity cost and all that). I do wish they could allocate more resources to low ROI initiatives as it could help them grow their user base more if people feel like they could count on AMD too (look at where changing the socket / platform for their CPUs almost every generation got Intel vs AM# long lifecycles…).
Sony has not brought PSSR2 to PS5 and MS and AMD never brought anything similar to XSX. Maybe the customisations Sony did to PS5 Pro represent the baseline for FSR 4.x / PSSR2
Bojji
Gold Member
PS5 basically can't run PSSR in any acceptable form.
While RDNA2/3 can still run FSR4 and it's superior to XeSS when it comes to image quality (but worse in performance). Even nvidia allows DLSS 4.5 on 2xxx and 3xxx and it performs badly on those GPUs (compared to 4xxx and 5xxx), OPTIONS are always great.
AMD - not supporting older (but not old) GPU architectures shows how much they care about their customers from 1+ years ago. Enabling FSR4/4.1 support on RDNA2/3 would be a great PR move.
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Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Why does not XSX run FSR4 if any RDNA2 card can run it? Shouldn't that tell us something? Not sure why we mention other technologies. Also, nVIDIA is right now in the popular bitch but not bitch but still buy category, because that works for them does not mean it would work for AMD.
I do find it shitty that they held RDNA4 from a lot of GPUs they have been selling and keep going at it with new RDNA2 GPUs and extending the life of RDNA3.x GPUs too with new models and APUs based on it…
I think if they supported RDNA2 cards and it performed as I think we can expect people would still give them crap. Maybe RDNA3 GPUs especially as they extended that generation far far too much.
Bojji
Gold Member
Xbox also supports Xess that is on the market for ~4 years but no game on it is using it. I think reasons are more political then technical, and developers in general don't give a fuck about Xbox.
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