Richard Dawkins: Attention Governor Perry: Evolution is a fact

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SUPREME1 said:
Some really aggresive atheists in this thread. Kinda scary.
Heh. I was thinking the same thing about the aggressively ignorant creationists.

I'm still slightly in shock that we've got those on this board.

I mean, thinking Dawkins is an asshole because he's vehement about disagreeing with your beliefs is one thing. Actually trying to deny the reality of evolution is a whole other level of brain self-sabotage.
 
Atramental said:
GRRRRRR.

Look at how I am aggressively typing this sentence on this internet forum. *evil scowl*
This is when I wish we still had animated avatars, so I could quote yours after this post.
 
speculawyer said:
George W Bush was president of the USA. Twice.

And the US population has a pretty damn short memory span.
http://youtu.be/hJ354DksO64
Bring on the comedy gold!

KingGondo said:
This is when I wish we still had animated avatars, so I could quote yours after this post.
OBTQk.gif
 
Knox said:
Haha, no. Conservatives love him but that's it. You have to at least pretend to be somewhat moderate to win a presidential election.
Or paint your opponent as an America-hater and imply that he's a Muslim. And that he wants to implement full-scale socialism. And that you'd be a hell of a lot more fun to drink a beer with than that elitist in the White House.

If the economy doesn't improve a significant amount within the next year and a half, Obama will be extremely vulnerable.

Atramental said:
Thank you!
 
iapetus said:
Sorry, but any time your argument consists of calling people idiots and characterising their views (inaccurately in some cases) as 'dumb', you're on that ad hominem path.
That word exists in the English language for a reason. To be used when appropriate. Their views are literally 'dumb'. I cannot think of a more apt use of that world than to describe the views of someone who denies evolution.

Calling the actual person dumb, or idiotic, based solely on their not believing in evolution might be overkill.
 
Knox said:
Haha, no. Conservatives love him but that's it. You have to at least pretend to be somewhat moderate to win a presidential election.

Haha, yes. With 9+ unemployment anyone not named Barack Obama has a great shot. He'll run to the center after the primary and cloud his record.
 
toohectic said:
The problem with the stance that 'god is incomprehensible' is that the beliefs held by religious people are based on their own comprehension about god. Something is either comprehensible or not. If something is incomprehensible, then the things that you believe you are able to comprehend are likely wrong.

Good point. Of course particular religions have a way of explaining it. Like in Christianity it says god is made known through Christ.

It is also connected to the Word/Logos. This is also expressed in Greek philosophy. Similar ideas are found in most of the ancient religions in one way or the other.

The Platonic Ideas were located within the Logos, but the Logos also acted on behalf of God in the physical world.[27] In particular, the Angel of the Lord in the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament) was identified with the Logos by Philo, who also said that the Logos was God's instrument in the creation of the universe.[27]
[edit]
 
So, dIEHARD, are you going to provide that one debate you claim you saw?

The debate that was so defining it made you hate someone for life to the point seeing his name makes you angry? Because plenty of debates to the contrary have been posted, and it would take a very ignorant and unreasonable person to refuse to look at evidence...unless they were afraid of being proven wrong.
 
Extending on this subject. Two interesting explanations on it.

As the Logos, Jesus Christ is God in self-revelation (Light) and redemption (Life). He is God to the extent that he can be present to man and knowable to man. The Logos is God,[Jn 1:1] ... Yet the Logos is in some sense distinguishable from God, for "the Logos was with God."[Jn 1:1] God and the Logos are not two beings, and yet they are also not simply identical. ... The Logos is God active in creation, revelation, and redemption.

The concept of Logos in Sufism is used to relate the "Uncreated" (God), to the "Created" (man). In Sufism, for the Deist, no contact between man and God can be possible without the Logos. The Logos is everywhere and always the same, but its personification is "unique" within each region. Jesus and Muhammad are seen as the personifications of the Logos, and this is what enables them to speak in such absolute terms
 
Can someone please tell me what the "holes" in evolution are? I always hear people say this and never have any idea what the hell they are talking about.

Surely they don't expect evolution to explain how life began, do they? If not, are those people referring to some PHD level genetic inconsistencies in DNA? Someone tell me.
 
Ghost_Protocol said:
Can someone please tell me what the "holes" in evolution are? I always hear people say this and never have any idea what the hell they are talking about.

Surely they don't expect evolution to explain how life began, do they? If not, are those people referring to some PHD level genetic inconsistencies in DNA? Someone tell me.

The "holes" are often in their perception of what they THINK the theory of evolution says . . . It mostly stems from incomplete or inaccurate understandings of the theory. That, plus yes, the fact that the theory of evolution doesn't address the beginning of creation . . . which it fucking wouldn't because it's not a religious text, it's a specific scientific theory. So much facepalm.
 
Ghost_Protocol said:
Can someone please tell me what the "holes" in evolution are? I always hear people say this and never have any idea what the hell they are talking about.

Surely they don't expect evolution to explain how life began, do they? If not, are those people referring to some PHD level genetic inconsistencies in DNA? Someone tell me.
Look at those gaps between each skull! >.>
0BN1l.jpg
 
Ghost_Protocol said:
Can someone please tell me what the "holes" in evolution are? I always hear people say this and never have any idea what the hell they are talking about.

Surely they don't expect evolution to explain how life began, do they? If not, are those people referring to some PHD level genetic inconsistencies in DNA? Someone tell me.

Actually yes, many religious people do confuse evolution with abiogenesis.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZFG5PKw504
 
speculawyer said:
And when they fill those 12 holes there will then be 24 holes between them!

some of those are like what..NINE inches wide? CAN ANYTHING WITH HOLES NINE INCHES WIDE FLOAT?? ..i didnt think so.
 
MuseManMike said:
Man, science is hard. With all its facts and formulas 'n' shit. I'm just going to believe whatever makes me happy.

You think you're making a joke, but I can guarantee you that the difficulty many people have in understanding science promotes beliefs that are, quite frankly, simpler. You simply cannot talk science with a lot of people. They just don't get it, so they opt for the easier answers.
 
Ventron said:
This is ridiculous, not only is Dawkins arrogant, but he's also wrong too.



Yes, it's called Democracy. Other people may have a different favourite candidate to you, shock horror.



Wrong, evolution is a theory. It is an inference used to explain a set of observations, which makes it a theory. It's the best theory we currently have for explaining the origin of species, but that doesn't rule out a future discovery which may contradict the foundations of this theory, and we thus must create a new theory that is consistent with all observations ever made. This happens all the time in science.



...unless you work in the majority of occupations where evolution is irrelevant.



I agree with this, if he just shut his mouth after this he wouldn't seem so arrogant.

Honestly, I am so sick of science being treated as a religion, and being used to wage war against Christianity. The people who do this are the ones responsible for the rise of anti-science sentiment in certain communities.

In this quote, we realize Ventron doesn't even understand what a theory is.
 
krameriffic said:
You think you're making a joke, but I can guarantee you that the difficulty many people have in understanding science promotes beliefs that are, quite frankly, simpler. You simply cannot talk science with a lot of people. They just don't get it, so they opt for the easier answers.
No, actually, I am fully aware of that mentality. I see it and debate it all the time. Science is taught poorly in the US, especially K-12, but at undergraduate levels as well. Though, that's an entirely different issue for another time.
 
Alligatorjandro said:
How much of a chance does Perry have to become president?
He won't win, but even if he did (or someone similar) like hypothetically honestly I think I'd leave the country. Hopefully by then I'd learn enough Japanese to make my way around Japan and I'd move there or maybe Canada at first. Just anywhere else.

I can deal with a christian president we've always had those it's disappointing but whatever it's the norm but I can't deal with someone like Perry being president, just the fact they're in the running is already horrible.

gutter_trash said:
agreed
both are annoying from the opposite spectrum and patronizing
Dat false equivalency.
 
Atramental said:
Yeah, if there's someone the religious should be more upset with it's Christopher Hitchens.

He's fucking relentless but that's why I love him so much. <3

He's a glorious man.

http://youtu.be/7nIRJVmZ4K8

Those who think Dawkins is relentless and obnoxious are in for a shock if they haven't come across Hitchens.
 
gutter_trash said:
agreed
both are annoying from the opposite spectrum and patronizing

Also agree, they both are extreme in their views. Although I believe in evolution I still would never support Dawkins at all. Or perry either.
 
Angry Fork said:
He won't win, but even if he did (or someone similar) like hypothetically honestly I think I'd leave the country. Hopefully by then I'd learn enough Japanese to make my way around Japan and I'd move there or maybe Canada at first. Just anywhere else.

Where's that giant rolleyes gif?

EVERYONE said that they would leave the country in 2004 if Bush won again.
 
njean777 said:
Also agree, they both are extreme in their views. Although I believe in evolution I still would never support Dawkins at all. Or perry either.

That seems reasonable--you'd rather people not hear facts because you don't like the man.
 
njean777 said:
Also agree, they both are extreme in their views. Although I believe in evolution I still would never support Dawkins at all. Or perry either.
It's not like Dawkins is running for political office or anything.
 
njean777 said:
Also agree, they both are extreme in their views. Although I believe in evolution I still would never support Dawkins at all. Or perry either.

Still don't understand this sentiment. Dawkins is extreme in his views? In what way?!? He is espousing straight-forward, scientific theory. Nothing extreme about it at all. In fact, it's about as rational and logical and mundane as it gets.
If you didn't REALLY mean his views, nothing else about Dawkins is extreme either. His mannerisms are almost never anything more than calm, persistent, and perhaps sometimes incredulous. FFS, he's British, lol.
I think all you guys talking about how obnoxious / extreme Dawkins is are buying some portrayal being delivered somewhere other than reality (FoxGAF?).
 
magicstop said:
Still don't understand this sentiment. Dawkins is extreme in his views? In what way?!? He is espousing straight-forward, scientific theory. Nothing extreme about it at all. In fact, it's about as rational and logical and mundane as it gets.
If you didn't REALLY mean his views, nothing else about Dawkins is extreme either. His mannerisms are almost never anything more than calm, persistent, and perhaps sometimes incredulous. FFS, he's British, lol.
I think all you guys talking about how obnoxious / extreme Dawkins is are buying some portrayal being delivered somewhere other than reality (FoxGAF?).

No I just don't like the fact that he is rude. Its fine to have your views, but when you put somebody else down for theirs then I do not like it. Thats why I don't like Politics either its all a "lets just call each other idiots". Also a reason I don't not like anti-theist or religious extremist. If you are gonna put people down for what they believe do it respectfully and not with name calling or threatening.

What I don't understand is why people have to jump on a bandwagon and can not just stick with their own beliefs. Always have to have somebody to give them some support for what they believe. In other words hiding behind somebody else's words.
 
Morn said:
Where's that giant rolleyes gif?

EVERYONE said that they would leave the country in 2004 if Bush won again.
I bet they wish they did. I was too young at the time. At least Bush was funny though, you kind of didn't mind that he was ruining everything because it was such a magnificent spectacle of stupidity, he was pure entertainment. Obama is boring unfortunately so it's not as fun everyone is just bitter and angry.
 
njean777 said:
What I don't understand is why people have to jump on a bandwagon and can not just stick with their own beliefs. Always have to have somebody to give them some support for what they believe. In other words hiding behind somebody else's words.

Do you post this sentiment in religious threads?
 
jaxword said:
Do you post this sentiment in religious threads?

No because I don't follow the bible either. I follow my own beliefs, if they happen to agree with the bible then they do. If they agree to science then they do. I don't trust the bible since it was written by man and translated a million times over.
 
Devolution said:
I have this feeling people are confusing Dawkins with Hitchens when it comes to religion.

Devolution,

The universe began 13.7 billion years ago, perhaps from the whisper of a afterthought. The first fossil evidence of life is 3.4 billion years old. The oldest known human-like species found is 3.3 million years old. Since the dawn of time, the universe has propagated entropy, it has evolved (and with it, our species), all culminating to this point in time, when you and I could share our thoughts on this message board. Reality is not without purpose or meaning, and the proof of that lies in the impossible depths of my unconditional, unwavering, and I hope not unrequited love for you, my dear Devolution. I can only hope that we can someday be together--that the universe should have it's catharsis.

With every shred of my undying affection,
Timedog
 
njean777 said:
No because I don't follow the bible either. I follow my own beliefs, if they happen to agree with the bible then they do. If they agree to science then they do. I don't trust the bible since it was written by man and translated a million times over.

Ok, but I think you misunderstood my question. I was questioning why you posted that in this thread, when there's many, many religious threads chock full of the same cognitive dissonance.
 
njean777 said:
No because I don't follow the bible either. I follow my own beliefs, if they happen to agree with the bible then they do. If they agree to science then they do. I don't trust the bible since it was written by man and translated a million times over.

What if they don't agree with science? What if science explicitly and specifically refutes what you believe?
 
KHarvey16 said:
What if they don't agree with science? What if science explicitly and specifically refutes what you believe?

Science can not refute many things, they are not in the business of proving god isn't real (like some of you would believe). If for some reason they refute what I believe then I will investigate it more and come up with my own decision.


jaxword said:
Ok, but I think you misunderstood my question. I was questioning why you posted that in this thread, when there's many, many religious threads chock full of the same cognitive dissonance.

How am I showing Cognitive dissonance? Please explain.
 
The most annoying thing about these debates is the "heh, these suckers, will never learn" attitudes which exist on both sides. If that's the case why bother even debating it? So many people pretend other people's beliefs don't bother them on this issue when for some reason they clearly do.
 
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