Support NeoGAF

[PhoenixDark]

Spoiler

Though I'm pretty sure that at one point, Stannis says that he could not make peace with Robb, since by declaring himself king of the north, he was just as bad as any of the other self-proclaimed kings, as they were all unlawfully claiming what was lawfully Stannis' kingdom. That really sums up Stannis as a character, being so rigid and uncompromising in his beliefs in justice and duty, that he is unwilling to make any exception, even if it would massively help him. And the thing is, it's not like he refuses to recognize these other kings because he wants the throne for himself, but because he sees taking the throne as the only right thing to do, being the true heir to Robert, and he has a duty to make sure the right heir assumes the throne.

Spoiler

I honestly think that in the even that Stannis had won, Robb would bend the knee and put down his sword. His bannermen would be satisfied with the fall of the Lannisters/revenge for Ned imo.

I would have loved to see how King Stannis would deal with Dany

 

[agrajag]

Let alone the fact that the whole rightful heir thing is moot, since Robert came to throne by right of conquest.

 

[markot]

Let alone the fact that the whole rightful heir thing is moot, since Robert came to throne by right of conquest.

Also he probably has dozens of bastards still out there >.<

 

[agrajag]

Also he probably has dozens of bastards still out there >.<

Siblings come before bastards in the line of succession though, unless the king names a bastard as his heir.

 

[apana]

Let alone the fact that the whole rightful heir thing is moot, since Robert came to throne by right of conquest.

Well it's complicated. Robert did have some blood relation to the Targaryens and it wasn't just a power play, the mad king had voided his right to rule because of his insanity and crimes against his people and high lords. You can't just have endless succession battles each time a king dies.

 

[agrajag]

Well it's complicated. Robert did have some blood relation to the Targaryens and it wasn't just a power play, the mad king had voided his right to rule because of his insanity and crimes against his people and high lords. You can't just have endless succession battles each time a king dies.

Right, but if Stannis was really earnest in his desire for justice, duty, etc. he'd be fighting for Daenerys Targaryen to take her rightful place as the queen of Westeros.

 

[apana]

Right, but if Stannis was really earnest in his desire for justice, duty, etc. he'd be fighting for Daenerys Targaryen to take her rightful place as the queen of Westeros.

He already decided that line of succession was invalid the moment he decided to rebel against the Targaryens.

 

[agrajag]

He already decided that line of succession was invalid the moment he decided to rebel against the Targaryens.

Then he should shut up about rightful heirs and how the other four self-proclaimed kings are rebels. Being a rebel himself, that makes him a huge hypocrite.

 

[Subitai]

Needed more Direwolves and Dragons =P

Great to see people excited for Marg and Mel.

 

[Narag]

Then he should shut up about rightful heirs and how the other four self-proclaimed kings are rebels. Being a rebel himself, that makes him a huge hypocrite.

But he is the rightful heir to a childless Robert Baratheon under Westerosi law.

 

[agrajag]

But he is the rightful heir to a childless Robert Baratheon under Westerosi law.

Under Westerosi law, Daenerys is the rightful heir, not the siblings of a usurper, just sayin'.

 

[Puddles]

All that is moot since the Targaryens came to the throne by means of conquest.

 

[agrajag]

All that is moot since the Targaryens came to the throne by means of conquest.

But but but, before the Targaryens there was no single kingdom of Westeros.

im not an export on westerosi law but i dont think it works like this

She remains the rightful heir to Aerys, Stannis is a rebel.

 

[brianjones]

Under Westerosi law, Daenerys is the rightful heir, not the siblings of a usurper, just sayin'.

im not an export on westerosi law but i dont think it works like this

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

hay u guiz, srsly tho rite of konquest > truborn sun > naimd successor > truborn daughter > brother > sister

Spoiler

Right of conquest trumps all. Robert Baratheon's claim to the throne on account of having Targaryen blood in him was just a figleaf to pay lip service to the laws of succession. Basically go by what Littlefinger told Ned when Ned said that his plan to sieze the Iron Throne by proxy was treason: "Only if we lose."

 

[Cloudy]

I'm still of the 4th book. This shit starts off SLOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

 

[_Isaac]

I'm still of the 4th book. This shit starts off SLOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

I'm on the second book, and the first two start really slow. It's actually a pretty boring series.

 

[ZephyrFate]

I'm still of the 4th book. This shit starts off SLOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

It picks up. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. The latter half of AFFC is awesome.

 

[apana]

hay u guiz, srsly tho rite of konquest > truborn sun > naimd successor > truborn daughter > brother > sister

Spoiler

Right of conquest trumps all. Robert Baratheon's claim to the throne on account of having Targaryen blood in him was just a figleaf to pay lip service to the laws of succession. Basically go by what Littlefinger told Ned when Ned said that his plan to sieze the Iron Throne by proxy was treason: "Only if we lose."

Around these parts we don't take kindly to squirrels lecturing us on the right of succession.

Spoiler

I kind of agree. In the case of Stannis it gets more complicated because he wasn't the one who rebelled, it was his brother. So he had to follow the "law" of blood, obeying an elder brother

 

[Dany]

Around these parts we don't take kindly to squirrels lecturing us on the right of succession.

Spoiler

I kind of agree. In the case of Stannis it gets more complicated because he wasn't the one who rebelled, it was his brother. So he had to follow the "law" of blood, obeying an elder brother

Spoiler

then he was next in line, while Robert conquered, the 'law' of succession follows the sons then brothers. Stannis was 'right' to fight for the crown even though his evidence proving jeoffery was a child if twincest is shoddy.

Also, I will officially be known by my super sexy renly avatar.

 

[markot]

To be fair, the dragon jerks did conquor westeros. Legality doesnt really matter, its who has the biggest army. (Or at least the most winningest!)

 

[Frost_Ace]

That's what I thought maybe in book 2 or 3. But now i'm pretty sure GRRM doesn't have a clue how to finish this bitch.

Crap, this post is making me worried :C

 

[Dany]

To be fair, the dragon jerks did conquor westeros. Legality doesnt really matter, its who has the biggest army. (Or at least the most winningest!)

I am unfamiliar on what was westeros before the targeryons, they ruled for a loooong time, no?

 

[markot]

I am unfamiliar on what was westeros before the targeryons, they ruled for a loooong time, no?

Yeah, but they came in from some islands or something and conquored the whole place with dragons and became rulers. there was just separate kingdoms before that.

 

[Frost_Ace]

I am unfamiliar on what was westeros before the targeryons, they ruled for a loooong time, no?

Around 300 years I think.

 

[Basileus777]

im not an export on westerosi law but i dont think it works like this

Westeros doesn't really operate under rule of law, so a legal argument isn't a great way to handle this. The person who holds the throne is King, and invents a claim to legitimize himself. Some claims are better than others, but they all derive form power and time.

 

[Dany]

Around 300 years I think.

I find years meaningless in the books.

I mean, How long ago was it when the kingslayer killed the Mad King? How young were Ned/Robert/Jamie when they 'took' over? How much time has elapsed in the first book? They mention winters taking on years, the life of Arya so far has been in the long summer. I can't seem to place time and years in the series at all.

 

[Puddles]

I love Renly's crown and Brienne's helmet so much.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

I find years meaningless in the books.

I mean, How long ago was it when the kingslayer killed the Mad King? How young were Ned/Robert/Jamie when they 'took' over? How much time has elapsed in the first book? They mention winters taking on years, the life of Arya so far has been in the long summer. I can't seem to place time and years in the series at all.

17 years between Robert Baratheon's rebellion and the start of GoT according to the show. Maybe 15 or so in the books.

EDIT: Yeah when they talk about 4000 year old unbroken lines of succession in the books, I tend to disbelieve. Not even Chinese or Byzantine emperors can claim lines that long. Let alone ones that rule over countries that have such a stable culture and language.

 

[subrock]

It picks up. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. The latter half of AFFC is awesome.

Just finished it this evening and yes, you are correct, last 200 pages are rad

 

[agrajag]

Around these parts we don't take kindly to squirrels lecturing us on the right of succession.

Spoiler

I kind of agree. In the case of Stannis it gets more complicated because he wasn't the one who rebelled, it was his brother. So he had to follow the "law" of blood, obeying an elder brother

Spoiler

But he broke the law of Westeros by rebelling with his brother against the king and his rightful heirs. Basically, he enforces/disregards the laws whenever he feels like it.

Why are we spoiler tagging things that took place before the first book?

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

I am unfamiliar on what was westeros before the targeryons, they ruled for a loooong time, no?

Targs ruled for about 283/4 years. Before they came Westeros was seven kingdoms. Then they used their dragons to fuck up everyone except the North (who surrendered without a fight) and Dorne (who would be taken some time later).

 

[Dany]

Targs ruled for about 283/4 years. Before they came Westeros was seven kingdoms. Then they used their dragons to fuck up everyone except the North (who surrendered without a fight) and Dorne (who would be taken some time later).

Ah, ok.

 

[PhoenixDark]

I love Renly's crown and Brienne's helmet so much.

Brienne's helmet looks better than just about all the ones from S1. I never liked the odd samurai ones of King's Landing. The crown looks great too. It's too early to say but I'm really impressed by the art direction we've seen so far.

 

[apana]

Spoiler

But he broke the law of Westeros by rebelling with his brother against the king and his rightful heirs. Basically, he enforces/disregards the laws whenever he feels like it.

Why are we spoiler tagging things that took place before the first book?

We learned about the rebellion in the first book but Stannis doesn't discuss his motivations in the first book.

Spoiler

He was incredibly conflicted but he thought the law of blood trumps his obligation to the mad king. When Robert became king Stannis wanted to continue on with the old laws of succession. It's complicated and there is hyprocrisy involved on the part of Stannis but there is a certain logic as well.

 

[arglebargle]

I find years meaningless in the books.

I mean, How long ago was it when the kingslayer killed the Mad King? How young were Ned/Robert/Jamie when they 'took' over? How much time has elapsed in the first book? They mention winters taking on years, the life of Arya so far has been in the long summer. I can't seem to place time and years in the series at all.

it was 283 years after the targaryens arrived in westeros when the kingslayer killed the mad king. robert and ned stark were both 20 at this point, jamie was a few years younger. it was 15 years later when game of thrones happens.

in terms of how long each book takes, i get a bit fuzzy there as well. based on a few things i dont want to get into in this thread, the time from game of thrones to a feast for crows is only about 2 years or so.

 

[Wray]

First look at Qarth?

http://www.westeros.org/GoT/News/Entry/The_Walls_of_Qarth/

Entertainment Weekly‘s James Hibberd has revealed through a tweet that he spent time on the set of Game of Thrones when filming was going on in Dubrovnik. In the tweet, he coyly refers to an outdoorsy, pet-owning girl he met while travelling… and he shared this photo of himself posing with Emilia Clarke in costume as Daenerys Targaryen.

What interests us most is the background, however, which is our first glimpse at one of the sets built to represent the fabled city of Qarth.

The gate and wall as seen here, with the serpents, lions, and more fairly faithfully reflects the description of the first of the triple-walls of Qarth:
The outer was red sandstone, thirty feet high and decorated with animals: snakes slithering, kites flying, fish swimming, intermingled with wolves of the red waste and striped zorses and monstrous elephants

Two more walls lies behind it, each taller than the last, and featuring even more extraordinary imagery. The height of the walls doesn’t seem to match very well, but it seems clear to us that they’ll be extending the height with CG… and perhaps working in the other walls the same way. It should look quite extraordinary. You can also see an extra in a Qartheen guardsman’s armor and clothing, with a strange breastplate and wide, loose white trousers. Next to him is a broken area in the wall, which may suggest that the Qartheen aren’t maintaining them as they once did and that their culture is on the wane (or perhaps it’s just there as a detail for verisimilitude).

 

[luoapp]

Just how cheap is the green screen tech today?

 

[chiba]

Just how cheap is the green screen tech today?

No idea, but since it's used in pretty much every outdoor scene of every network drama show on air, it can't be too expensive.

 

[charlemagne]

Just how cheap is the green screen tech today?

Cheaper than actually building stuff.

 

[Cipherr]

Targs ruled for about 283/4 years. Before they came Westeros was seven kingdoms. Then they used their dragons to fuck up everyone except the North (who surrendered without a fight) and Dorne (who would be taken some time later).

Nice info. We need a thread to dump all this kind of stuff somewhere. Stuff S1 didnt talk about, but probably wouldnt be a spoiler for the upcoming tv shows series.

 

[Kuroyume]

I like the look of most of the new characters shown in the promo but I don't like the way Aeron looks... Assuming that's him. I thought he was going to have a very gaunt Jesus-like appearance. The dude seems to have the crazy hair but I wasn't expecting to see him look so fat. The robe could be adding a few but it seems like he's actually that big. A long crazy beared would would have been nice too. It's not a big deal I guess if he acts the part well. People go nuts for Asha but I think Aeron is the best character in the whole Iron born chapters. He's hilarious. I like loud religious nutjobs and he takes that shit to another level in the books. I would like to see the actor pull it off.

Some random priest welcoming Theon back and stuff.

http://winter-is-coming.net/2011/09/character-cuts-whos-in-and-whos-out-of-season-two/

Spoiler

Aeron &#8220;Damphair&#8221; Greyjoy &#8211; The Damphair&#8217;s primary role in book two is to welcome Theon back to Pyke and, through dialogue with his nephew, introduce the major players amongst the Ironborn. It seems he has been shuffled off to a later season, as we recently got a glimpse of a Drowned Priest-looking character fulfilling the Damphair&#8217;s role on set, but we have it on good authority that this character was NOT Aeron Greyjoy. I can live with that, especially if it means we can avoid a recast down the line. Save Aeron for when he&#8217;s really needed (ie the kingsmoot).

I would like for this to be the case.

 

[Frost_Ace]

He is not Aeron, just a random drowned God priest.

 

[AlphaDragoon]

...I kinda hate this guy for getting to be that close to Emilia. XD

 

[agrajag]

^ That's not Aeron.

 

[BeeDog]

Have they talked at all about toning down the sexposition for Season 2? Frankly, all the completely unnecessary sex scenes in the first season was the worst thing about the show.

 

[brentech]

Have they talked at all about toning down the sexposition for Season 2? Frankly, all the completely unnecessary sex scenes in the first season was the worst thing about the show.

Doesn't sound like it's going to improve. Took me a bit to re-find the interview:

The show drew some criticism during season one for its use of so-called sexposition and a reliance on nudity. Why do you think that some critics and viewers reacted so strongly to the inclusion of the nudity, considering George&#8217;s novels are rife with them and this is HBO? Do you intend to address the &#8220;sexposition&#8221; issue in the show&#8217;s second season?

Benioff: We will address this issue with a 20-minute brothel scene involving a dozen whores, Mord the Jailer, a jackass, and a large honeycomb.

Weiss: There will always be those who want to see less sex, and those who want to see more sex, and those who want to see sex in big tubs of pudding. You just can&#8217;t please everyone. This year, we&#8217;re going to focus on the pudding people.

From: this interview
Sadly, they didn't seem to address the real question and just acted like some people don't like seeing sex. I don't really care as long as 'sexposition' dies, but it seems doubtful.

And damn, all the images in the OP got jacked. Must of been another image host blacklisted. Not sure if Cornballer is aware, but either way, it probably doesn't matter at this point in the thread life.

 

[Kuroyume]

I don't see the problem. They lasted a minute or two. And, I don't watch TV shows for tits so it's not like I'd be annoyed if it was toned down. I'd watch regular porn for that. I just think they're keeping it faithful to the books so I'm for it.

 

[BeeDog]

I don't see the problem. They lasted a minute or two. And, I don't watch TV shows for tits so it's not like I'd be annoyed if it was toned down. I'd watch regular porn for that. I just think they're keeping it faithful to the books so I'm for it.

But many scenes were improvised for the show, so it's not like the inclusion of them makes the show more authentic to the books.

Thanks for the info brentech, too bad they didn't really want to tackle that criticism.

 

[brentech]

I don't see the problem. They lasted a minute or two. And, I don't watch TV shows for tits so it's not like I'd be annoyed if it was toned down. I'd watch regular porn for that. I just think they're keeping it faithful to the books so I'm for it.

I don't mind what's in the books. Only real problem I had was the littlefinger whorehouse scene. Not only was it not in the books, but it was like 5+ min and while the background info was important, there is way better ways tell a story than have two chicks doing it and just talking over their moans.