That wasn't an example of the wii u's performance. That was an example of a third party port coming to the platform.
Rumor: Xbox 3 = 6-core CPU, 2GB of DDR3 Main RAM, 2 AMD GPUs w/ Unknown VRAM, At CES
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That wasn't an example of the wii u's performance. That was an example of a third party port coming to the platform.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
Well we know Zelda featured much higher complexity lighting than UC3. Textures, poly counts, and other effects are a wash because of the smallish setting.
Everybody in the know lols at your global illumination claims in that demo
"Under clocked devkits" never gets old
While everybody and their mom lols at you? Yup yup.
bgassassin
Member
He wasn't the only one to suggest that.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=31900149&postcount=9068
And this comes from someone who's been openly pessimistic.
Your bias that makes you say asinine things does get old though. You're the one ignoring fact.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
I don't think I've ever claimed under clocked dev kits. Also Global Illumination wasn't my claim, but someones "in the know" claim that migrated here.
And you've still got Epic calling it a halfstep console. Set against Loop (at this time Epics largest console partner) that would be a very real possibility.
So I guess you're not only serious, but also really angry about something. I apologize for videogames making you mad.
I'm not sure where you're getting this. I can only respond by saying it doesn't look anywhere near as good as an average scene in Uncharted 3.
If Nintendo was trying to demonstrate a powerful console, wouldn't they show something that looks visibly better than current console games?
Thunder Monkey
Banned
Their realtime demos both featured lighting that we don't normally see on consoles right now.
Everything else even the resolution was taken straight out of the current gen. But, we know it has at least 2x the RAM of the PS3/360, with a GPU in the area of 400-640 SPU's. That right there will net you noticeably higher res texures, higher shader complexity, and more complex lighting.
The issue here is what you expect a generational leap to be. I consider it a half step. It has more of everything that made the current consoles powerful. As much as a jump WiiU is compared to the 360, the Loop will be to the WiiU.
Games built from the ground up for both will look much better than PC's games made in that same era of tech.
I don't get this at all. Why do people think UC3 looks so amazing? It looks good, yes, but it's really not as impressive as people like to pretend.
bgassassin
Member
That's supposedly the reason why they didn't show anything and focused on demos to show how the controller would work.
Supposedly they are doing two skus where one is equivalent to a set-top box, and the higher end is more like the gaming console we'd expect. Looking at the rumors I would say:
Loop = Set-top box = 2013 release
Ten = Fully-featured gaming console = 2012 release
Sho_Nuff82
Member
They were working with non-final hardware, and the Zelda demo (which was using elements of a game designed for Wii) was more for the controller than the raw polygon pushing power? That's literally all the demo was for - hey look, we have a game, it's in 1080p, and it's on two screens at once from different angles.
The true test will honestly be the first round of multiplatform titles that arrive next fall. I'd imagine that the Wii U versions of Darksiders 2, Ninja Gaiden 3, Arkham City, and BF 3 will run circles around the PS360 versions despite developers being far less familiar with the hw. If you're expecting Nintendo to put out a NSMB or Mario Kart game with photorealistic textures like GT5 or modded Crysis/GTA4 I don't really know what to tell you, that has never really been part of their design philosophy.
I would think that the set-top box would release to coincide with their Windows 8 marketing next year, and the fully featured gaming console will arrive in 2013 so they can deliver more performance for a reasonable price.
bgassassin
Member
From what we've heard you can probably scratch Darksiders 2 from that list.
There wouldn't be that much of a gain from waiting IMO. Plus Loop wouldn't compete with Wii U like Ten could.
There wouldn't be that much of a gain from waiting IMO. Plus Loop wouldn't compete with Wii U like Ten could.
Shin Johnpv
Member
BUT GUYS! That PS360 footage they showed TOTALLY looked worse than what the PS360. It's obvious! (seriously best part of E3)
Well yeah but if the set-top box and the 'full console' are going to run the same software, they'd need to put the same chips in both consoles. Therefore the next gen hardware for Microsoft will be constrained to whatever they see as a 'set-top box', which seems to me that at least it can't be larger or use more power than the Xbox 360 Slim.
Also: Nintendo messed up the E3 presentation. The Zelda demo was thrown together by some dudes in two weeks time so they could at least show something. Showing the Wii U was at E3 actually a very late decision, and I think it was the wrong one. Should've prepared better and done it at TGS or something.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
That and the "Is it just a controller for the Wii?" stuff.
Nintendo even mentioned showing off their new console just days before. On top of the unending rumors.
If they were willing to demo 360 footage of Darksiders on stage, why do you think they're limited to actual WiiU (allegedly underclocked...) dev kits for the Zelda demo?
Usually these companies shamelessly over-promise when they launch a new console. For the sake of argument, i'm willing to credit Nintendo for just being honest about their plans. But you and others seem to think they're sitting on something significantly more powerful and just keeping quiet about it. I don't understand this. And I especially don't understand it after Wii and 3DS.
bgassassin
Member
Not if the plans are for the set-top version to leave out an optical drive.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
Because we know enough about the console and the parts its using to say it's more powerful. Not significantly no, but few are saying that. Closer to a 2010 PC using a single card solution than the PS3 or 360.
Shin Johnpv
Member
Because Nintendo never pulls the over promise thing with their tech demos. The GC easily surpassed all the tech demos shown before it's release, I would say the N64 did as well. I don't think the Wii really got any tech demos in the same sense that I remember.
They don't play Sony and MS's game of lets do target renders that are way beyond what we know the system can do and hope for a programming miracle.
They don't play Sony and MS's game of lets do target renders that are way beyond what we know the system can do and hope for a programming miracle.
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
They don't need to run all the same software. Give the weaker machine XNA-like managed code environment and the stronger console could still run all its software while also reserving the capability of running high-spec native code games.
infinityBCRT
Member
Naughty Dog does a damn good job of cutting into and out of pre-rendered FMV's for the up close shots of faces.
Yes their animation system is amazing, and the image quality is fantastic, but its not as much about the hardware as it is about their development processes and attention to detail that makes Uncharted 3 a really awesome visual experience.
bgassassin
Member
You must not have seen my previous response. Also Nintendo undersold Gamecube's abilities. I also like had the one deviation (Wii) now represents their total history. Handhelds aren't relevant in that type of discussion.
The only technical difference between a game console and a DVR set-top is the qam decoder. Those chipsets are not particularly large or hot.
I wouldn't read much into those DVR rumors, even if they're true.
Are you going to say the same about God of War, Killzone, Crysis, etc? At what point do you credit the hardware for a game looking gorgeous?
bgassassin
Member
DVR rumors? I've been calling it a set-top box for awhile due to the ARM rumors. Recent rumors almost suggest these two Xbox3 skus will be different in hardware as well as function.
Well a lot of that has to do with signs that point to the hardware being very very early at E3. Final sepcs have only been recently locked down, if they've been locked down at all. Nintendo was horribly rushed at E3. I mean, fuck, they didn't even have enough time to put the noticeably superior build of the bird demo in their on stage demo. The zelda demo was also reportedly put together in a relatively short period of time.
In any case, you really need to let go of the demo 360 footage. The reason they showed a montage of 360 footage was because there was no wii u footage ready to be shown. Development simply wasn't at that point yet. The goal of the footage was to show upcoming games. I mean, if you want to use that demo reel as being indicative of wii u performance, why cling to darksiders? Why not talk about metro, which was clearly a PC build?
Thunder Monkey
Banned
The reason any game has ever looked good has nothing to do with the hardware.
Investment and artistry.
Powerful tech makes that investment much larger, but the payoff much sweeter. Striking a balance is the key to victory.
ARM is just another CPU architecture, it doesn't tell you much about the form of the actual unit. Vita has ARM, my cellphone has ARM.
As far as the DVR rumors, we hear this stuff every time a console launches. Even if it turns out to be true this time, I'd be shocked if the core hardware is any different. Obviously software would be compatible. Maybe it can forgo the DVD (blu-ray?) drive if it's got a fast cable internet connection. But I'll eat my hat if a DVR model has half as much ram or something.
Ah right. That's a pretty neat idea.
bgassassin
Member
I know what ARM is.
And based on my view of the rumors, you'll probably need to be ready to eat that hat.
That's a PS3 or 360 screenshot. Are you trying to say that Wii U is weaker than PS3 and 360?
Holy shit, you are.
Pick whatever demo you like. At no point has Nintendo attempted to raise expectations above the current generation. Nothing they showed is beyond the capabilities of PS360.
I wouldn't trust anyone saying it's far more or less powerful than the current systems. I expect it to play 360/PS3-level games. Maybe they look a little better, or a little worse, but that's where it sits. Like Wii compared to PS3, no one will mistake Wii U for PS4.
Yeah, whatever dude. Something tells me you're going to by very disappointed with ps4/xbox3, not because they wont be powerful, but because the added effects wont be as clearly noticeable as the jump from last gen to this one. I thought there was plenty of stuff in the floor bird demo and the zelda demo that implies higher specs than the current generation. There's also the fact that, you know, it's been confirmed by devs that this thing is more powerful than the current gen.
AHAHAHAHAHA
Wow. You must really hate Nintendo if you have to go as far as saying that third parties are lying. Explain your reasoning, please.
The guy with the Pikachu avatar from 2005 told me the same thing about this generation. Every console makes the previous one look like a dinosaur. I see no reason for this to change. Playing Skyrim on PC makes me more confident than ever.
In all these arguments about Wii U's power, people just keep on forgetting about this in both the Zelda and the bird demo. It was rendering the scene TWICE, albeit once at a lower res, and looking as good as it did, on old kits and rapidly prototyped demos.
I agree. The silence is so deafening that I can't help but believe Nintendo are going to try and knock it out of the park on the "re-unveil".
Thunder Monkey
Banned
Big difference though.
Last gen 2/3rds of hardware didn't have the now standardized DX like shader tech and one had a really early and basic version.
Going into this next gen, all three are based on the same paradigm. Just more.
I can safely say that because the biggest precision jump we've seen in hardware was achieved mainly through software. Tessellation. As of right now that will be one of the few features that may make a huge visual difference, aside from that everything else is iterative.
I like Nintendo software just fine. I haven't liked Nintendo hardware since the N64.
Your parsing my posts rigidly considering my vague language. When Miyamoto himself says his system might not "dramatically outperform" the current systems, I take that to mean roughly what I've been saying. Whether it's a bit more powerful, or not isn't relevant. What's important is that Nintendo's not positioning it as a next-gen console, and we shouldn't expect it.
If Jack Tretton came out and said "PS4 might not dramatically outperform the current systems", I wouldn't start arguing about how powerful it's going to be.
When you play Uncharted 3 in 3D, it's also rendering the scene TWICE.
We all know that it won't reach "next gen" levels. However, we know for a fact that it'll be more powerful than the current-gen. Based on the rumors, we're probably looking at 2-3x the current gen, while the other next-gen consoles will be more like 8-12x.
Also, you used an XBox 360 screenshot and claimed it as something Nintendo was using to show the Wii U's graphics. That's like using God of War 2 to show what the PS3 is capable of.
Shin Johnpv
Member
Uncharted 3 cuts down on the foliage, and some polygon counts in the scenery depending on the area to make 3D happen.
And the bird demo is running with none of the typical subsystems of an actual game (ai, positional audio, physics, etc), so what's your point?
Shin Johnpv
Member
And Nintendo's demos are always surpassed by actual games that hit their systems, so what's your point?
EDIT: Cause I think I lost track of the argument trail and responded to the wrong source topic
We can go back and forth and back and forth trying to 1-up each other but all I'm saying is that Wii U will have much more modern tech than what's in the PS3/360 - that's a given. Whether it's 1080p or not at 60fps doesn't really matter. Games will almost always be able to look better at 720 because you have more graphics power for effects etc. Same can be said about 30FPS over 60FPS. We all know about the sub HD resolutions that we play all the time on CoD etc.
I'm going to keep track of everyone who has said that the Wii U won't be noticeable different to the PS3/360 and I will buy you a Wii U if that turns out to be the case - no I'm not giving you my contact details.
This is roughly what many people said about Wii in the early days. That it would essentially produce Xbox360-level graphics at 480i.
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