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[gundamkyoukai]

What was interesting was that the MC himself was kinda in the same boat and still kicked ass regardless, but now hes become part of the 99%

Truth is Naruto was never part of that group yeah he did work hard but he had way more chakra than every one else .
Looking back at it all i can't remember why i was so angry at it .

 

[Angry Grimace]

My point is that Naruto should've had the main cast reunite and all level up in sequence with each other similar to most shonen manga out there. There's absolutely no reason to why Naruto should be automatically superior to them aside from crap plotpoints made up in Part 2. The only advantage he should have is that he's the protagonist of the story at most

...most shonen? Like what? No offense, but it sounds a lot like you're referring to One Piece as though it's representative of all manga. See, this is what I'm saying. You make references to large scopes of works, but you either aren't actually referring to anything or you're not sure what you're talking about. It's either hyperbole or disingenuous. You have to pick one.

Where do you think Yamucha, Kuririn and Tienshinhan went in DB? Chad, Orihime and Renji? It's hard to argue against the entire conceit of the medium.

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

They don't need to be, it can adopt the One Piece system where everyone gets a fight at their "level" while Naruto can go off and take on the big bad, it doesn't help that the manga went from character driven in part 1 to story driven in part 2 either, because the story is just plain scratch your head type stuff at this point.

The Pain fight could have turned out like that for example, but it ended up being Naruto taking on all 6 at once.

No. That´s not the point in Naruto at all. Naruto´s biggest theme is that the young generation surpasses the old one. So young characters should fight stronger older opponents, get over their own weaknesses and defeat them.

 

[Big One]

...most shonen? Like what? No offense, but it sounds a lot like you're referring to One Piece as though it's representative of all manga.

Where do you think Yamucha, Kuririn and Tienshinhan went in DB? Chad, Orihime and Renji? It's hard to argue against the entire conceit of the medium.

Bleach and Dragonball aren't "most shonen" but pretty much any shonen with a cast usually keeps it pretty consistent. Maybe not in the vein of One Piece which has like 100+ support characters that are actively involved with the storyline, but it's very rare you'd see a shonen that blatantly disregards central characters. The reason why Bleach and Naruto does this is because they focus on picking out who is most popular and pushing them in the manga the most. Dragonball's case is that Toriyama is just forgetful and genuinely didn't give a shit. I don't remember Yu Yu Hakusho, Fullmetal Alchemist, Rurouni Kenshin, Slam Dunk and other series intentionally disregarding parts of their main cast for most of their serial runs.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Bleach and Dragonball aren't "most shonen" but pretty much any shonen with a cast usually keeps it pretty consistent. Maybe not in the vein of One Piece which has like 100+ support characters that are actively involved with the storyline, but it's very rare you'd see a shonen that blatantly disregards central characters. The reason why Bleach and Naruto does this is because they focus on picking out who is most popular and pushing them in the manga the most. Dragonball's case is that Toriyama is just forgetful and genuinely didn't give a shit. I don't remember Yu Yu Hakusho, Fullmetal Alchemist, Rurouni Kenshin, Slam Dunk and other series intentionally disregarding parts of their main cast for most of their serial runs.

What was the the plot of Yu Yu Hakusho and/or Slam Dunk

 

[Big One]

What was the the plot of Yu Yu Hakusho and/or Slam Dunk

If you want to know the plot of those two so bad just Google it

 

[Infinite Justice]

Truth is Naruto was never part of that group yeah he did work hard but he had way more chakra than every one else .
Looking back at it all i can't remember why i was so angry at it .

I believe the chakra was an effort alleviate the flaws he had compared to the others with their genetic traits/abilities shit and he still had to know how to use/harness it.

Bleach and Dragonball aren't "most shonen" but pretty much any shonen with a cast usually keeps it pretty consistent. Maybe not in the vein of One Piece which has like 100+ support characters that are actively involved with the storyline, but it's very rare you'd see a shonen that blatantly disregards central characters. The reason why Bleach and Naruto does this is because they focus on picking out who is most popular and pushing them in the manga the most. Dragonball's case is that Toriyama is just forgetful and genuinely didn't give a shit. I don't remember Yu Yu Hakusho, Fullmetal Alchemist, Rurouni Kenshin, Slam Dunk and other series intentionally disregarding parts of their main cast for most of their serial runs.

Actually

Spoiler

Kuwabara

got that treatment in the last arc of Yu Yu Hakusho and the "defense" was that the arc was

Spoiler

"demons only" and him being a human.

Edit: beaten by Grimace

 

[Angry Grimace]

If you want to know the plot of those two so bad just Google it

In other words, you never read them, got it. Glad to know you have such a great basis for comparison.

 

[Big One]

Actually Kuwabara got that treatment in the last arc of Yu Yu Hakusho but was alleviated with the arc being "demon centric" and him being a human.

The Three Kings arc was not most of Yu Yu Hakusho, not even close.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

...most shonen? Like what? No offense, but it sounds a lot like you're referring to One Piece as though it's representative of all manga. See, this is what I'm saying. You make references to large scopes of works, but you either aren't actually referring to anything or you're not sure what you're talking about. It's either hyperbole or disingenuous. You have to pick one.

Where do you think Yamucha, Kuririn and Tienshinhan went in DB? Chad, Orihime and Renji? It's hard to argue against the entire conceit of the medium.

For this to happen people must first get it in there head that Naruto is about Naruto and Sasuke.
I think some people expect the others to grow with Naruto like in some manga like YuYu Hakusho or catch up like Kenshin .
What happen was they got replace like in DB where all human got replace by Saiyans .

 

[Angry Grimace]

Even then, you just picked the Five most popular series of the last 20 years and said they are most shonen, despite the fact that a full half of those DO have that trope in them.

 

[survivor]

Pokemon Reburst 1-2

This is pretty badass. I know it's just a standard shounen manga that's using Pokemon as basic forms of power and special moves, but still it's pretty cool.

I don't know if they will follow the game's power levels that much, but if they do it will be problematic trying to beat the MC when he already got Zekrom.

 

[Big One]

Even then, you just picked the Five most popular series of the last 20 years and said all shonen are like them.

Cause they are. What proof do you have that suggest it's common for shonen to abandoned characters? All I've ever read doesn't do this

Despite the fact that a full half of those DO have that trope in them.

I didn't say the trope didn't exist, just that it didn't take up a substantial amount of time in the respective series

 

[Angry Grimace]

Cause they are. What proof do you have that suggest it's common for shonen to abandoned characters? All I've ever read doesn't do this


I didn't say the trope didn't exist, just that it didn't take up a substantial amount of time in the respective series

Except you're taking that argument too far, we're talking about the protagonist being significantly stronger than the other characters, not that they don't exist. It's not like the Naruto characters are "forgotten," it's that they aren't powerful enough to plausibly fight the main villians and giving them more people to fight that just happen to be on their level is just Eigen Plotting.

 

[PK Gaming]

Pokemon Reburst 1-2

This is pretty badass. I know it's just a standard shounen manga that's using Pokemon as basic forms of power and special moves, but still it's pretty cool.

I don't know if they will follow the game's power levels that much, but if they do it will be problematic trying to beat the MC when he already got Zekrom.

Are you OK?

We're here to help if you need it.
(its ok, i can say this I know him IRL)

 

[AlphaDragoon]

Seriously, Nisioisin is on meta-fire with Medaka Box right now

I love how she specifically says they need to end the manga before the anime version starts. XD

I'm happy with the new direction for the end, it makes tons more sense that Zenkichi simply wants to make Medaka fall in love with him then that dumb ass shit the Zen fanboys/salty Medaka haters were pushing of him physically defeating her. He "beats" her by becoming President and getting her to love him, which until now is something they haven't thought Medaka to be capable of (simple romantic love for just one person).

 

[Big One]

Except you're taking that argument too far, we're talking about the protagonist being significantly stronger than the other characters, not that they don't exist. It's not like the Naruto characters are "forgotten," it's that they aren't powerful enough to plausibly fight the main villians and giving them more people to fight that just happen to be on their level is just Eigen Plotting.

The problem with this is that they don't have to be this way, Kishimoto only makes them this way so he doesn't have to put any effort into decent storytelling. If One Piece can do this on a normal basis and exist in the modern manga format, why can't Naruto? I just don't understand how this level of incompetence can be disregarded.

 

[Angry Grimace]

You know what, never mind, I really need to study so I can get to bed at a reasonable hour rather than arguing a petty point with someone with a known character for refusing to lose and/or accept any evidence to the contrary of any of their points.

Sorry.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

The problem with this is that they don't have to be this way, Kishimoto only makes them this way so he doesn't have to put any effort into decent storytelling. If One Piece can do this on a normal basis and exist in the modern manga format, why can't Naruto? I just don't understand how this level of incompetence can be disregarded.

It rather simple he does not want to do it , i have problems with Naruto story but not every manga needs to do it .
The biggest manga before OP replace all it's human chars which was DB , Naruto can do the same.
Naruto could have been a great manga even if he replace people but the story just got out of control .

 

[flawfuls]

Android Kikaider

So it's like megaman, but the main character is based on Pinocchio. The finale better be a whale robot fight.

 

[Infinite Justice]

You know what, never mind, I really need to study so I can get to bed at a reasonable hour rather than arguing a petty point with someone with a known character for refusing to lose and/or accept any evidence to the contrary of any of their points.

Sorry.

Dammit at your edit.

It rather simple he does not want to do it , i have problems with Naruto story but not every manga needs to do it .
The biggest manga before OP replace all it's human chars which was DB , Naruto can do the same.
Naruto could have been a great manga even if he replace people but the story just got out of control .

My sticking point was that he seemed to be on the path until the end of Part 1 and decided to just fuck it in Part 2. Was kinda jarring imo.

Android Kikaider

So it's like megaman, but the main character is based on Pinocchio. The finale better be a whale robot fight.

yea I remember this due to watching the anime so i wonder, how is the manga version by comparison.?

 

[Big One]

It rather simple he does not want to do it , i have problems with Naruto story but not every manga needs to do it .
The biggest manga before OP replace all it's human chars which was DB , Naruto can do the same.
Naruto could have been a great manga even if he replace people but the story just got out of control .

No sorry, it was completely unacceptable in Dragonball, Naruto can NOT do it and get away with it. There is absolutely no obligation for it happening in either series, and in both series it made the series considerably worse than what they once were.

The character arcs in Naruto part 1 weren't even finished, they were just abandoned. Why isn't Rock Lee struggling anymore? At least when he returned in the final arc of Part 1, it was right after he recovered, but what came of that? What about Neji and Hinata's relationship? What about Hinata's crush on Naruto? What about Chouji's whatever?

Seriously these characters could've been developed so much more and it would've still made sense and be great.

Android Kikaider

So it's like megaman, but the main character is based on Pinocchio. The finale better be a whale robot fight.

Huh weird manga to pick up. Are you on an Ishinomoro binge or something?

 

[Crash Station]

NM, go read the new Medaka chapter!

 

[Articalys]

Should've posted this one:

Well, I was trying to encourage people to go and read the whole chapter, but now that you've gone and posted the best panel, I guess it's a moot point.

Plus the one I posted was more of a troll from Nisio anyway!

 

[Angry Grimace]

No sorry, it was completely unacceptable in Dragonball, Naruto can NOT do it and get away with it. There is absolutely no obligation for it happening in either series, and in both series it made the series considerably worse than what they once were.

The character arcs in Naruto part 1 weren't even finished, they were just abandoned. Why isn't Rock Lee struggling anymore? At least when he returned in the final arc of Part 1, it was right after he recovered, but what came of that? What about Neji and Hinata's relationship? What about Hinata's crush on Naruto? What about Chouji's whatever?

Seriously these characters could've been developed so much more and it would've still made sense and be great.


Huh weird manga to pick up. Are you on an Ishinomoro binge or something?

Do you actually get physically angry at manga? I mean, I thought the last season of Lost sucked too, but it is what it was.

Most of your complaints are just nonsensical petty irritants that you really blow out of proportion. I simply don't get why you need to see the denoument of Neji reconciling with his cousin.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

My sticking point was that he seemed to be on the path until the end of Part 1 and decided to just fuck it in Part 2. Was kinda jarring imo.

Well you won't hear me disagreeing with that .

 

[flawfuls]

Huh weird manga to pick up. Are you on an Ishinomoro binge or something?

Someone just translated the first volume yesterday.

 

[Crash Station]

Well, I was trying to encourage people to go and read the whole chapter, but now that you've gone and posted the best panel, I guess it's a moot point.

Plus the one I posted was more of a troll from Nisio anyway!

Blarg fine, I'll edit.

 

[Big One]

Someone just translated the first volume yesterday.

Oooh nice, I shall check this out. I actually attempted scanlating it back in the day but was never able to get a translator

Do you actually get physically angry at manga? I mean, I thought the last season of Lost sucked too, but it is what it was.

Most of your complaints are just nonsensical petty irritants that you really blow out of proportion. I simply don't get why you need to see the denoument of Neji reconciling with his cousin.

Stating general facts =/= blowing things out of proportion. You need to see Neji doing that because we never really see a resolve to that arc whatsoever aside from the fact that Neji is softened up. It's the same case with all of the other character arcs. Naruto would've simply been better if it stuck to the characters before it's story, which was already terrible in Part 1

 

[Cwarrior]

Bleach and Dragonball aren't "most shonen" but pretty much any shonen with a cast usually keeps it pretty consistent. Maybe not in the vein of One Piece which has like 100+ support characters that are actively involved with the storyline, but it's very rare you'd see a shonen that blatantly disregards central characters. The reason why Bleach and Naruto does this is because they focus on picking out who is most popular and pushing them in the manga the most. Dragonball's case is that Toriyama is just forgetful and genuinely didn't give a shit. I don't remember Yu Yu Hakusho, Fullmetal Alchemist, Rurouni Kenshin, Slam Dunk and other series intentionally disregarding parts of their main cast for most of their serial runs.

I hate to break the news to you but most shounen aren’t like one piece nearly all of them introduce side characters/rivals only for the purpose of jobbing for the man character after their story have been told.

Am currently watching Rurouni kenshin and the most interesting character in that, sagara senosuke gets worfed every chance he gets.

That arc wasn't even good. It would be ludicrous if either Kiba or Rock Lee was capable of fighting any path of Pain.

How about mini naruto clone konohamaru doing a lot better against pain then everyone one at the village including the hokage?

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

Beelzebub

Tojo/Oga team did not do anything. I am glad that Jabberwok is not easy to defeat.

 

[upandaway]

One Piece: B+

Fuck, I wonder if Oda is planning on taking a break before they finally arrive at the first place there.

Not Oda's break, but there's no Jump next week (and the week after the week after next week)

Just reminding you guys again so you won't be caught off-guard


HxH

I read it in really bad timing so I can't get focused at all. I'll reread it in the weekend, no comment

Kannagi (caught up)

Whoa! Whoaaa!!

That was a really awkward time to catch up.

For the sake of opinioning some opinions though, yeah, I like this.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

I hate to break the news to you but most shounen aren’t like one piece nearly all of them introduce side characters/rivals only for the purpose of jobbing for the man character after their story has been told.

Am currently watching Rurouni kenshin and the most interesting character in that, sagara senosuke gets worfed every chance he gets.

Sagara is still in most arcs and we also see how he gets power up along the way .

 

[Infinite Justice]

stuff

you should read AnimeGAF sometime

 

[gundamkyoukai]

you should read AnimeGAF sometime

The horror of that place

 

[upandaway]

you should read AnimeGAF sometime

But those are usually one-liners. Those were 7 pages of, like 200 words each post.

 

[Shouta]

I hate to break the news to you but most shounen aren’t like one piece nearly all of them introduce side characters/rivals only for the purpose of jobbing for the man character after their story has been told.

Am currently watching Rurouni kenshin and the most interesting character in that, sagara senosuke gets worfed every chance he gets.

What? Sano gets a ton of time in the manga and has a ton of fights himself. He gets Worfed a few times but mostly to set up the villains and it's usually somewhat conditional (he's injured or something like that).

Big One has a point, Naruto, DBZ, and Bleach are kind of outliers in regards to its characters. They literally sideline and make their cast useless or become jobbers for the popular ones or whatever crazy thing they have going on. In a lot of shonen fight manga and even seinen versions of them, the primary cast remains for much of it and are featured through the entire thing with their own fights and trials. Even if the main character is stronger than the rest of them, most of the team isn't that far behind in terms of skills and powers.

 

[Infinite Justice]

But those are usually one-liners. Those were 7 pages of, like 200 words each post.

i will reiterate, you should read animeGAF some day (especially if ABF and or Macodin are around)

 

[Angry Grimace]

Stating general facts =/= blowing things out of proportion.

You said the Moon's Eye Plan was the worst plot twist in the history of literature.

 

[El Sloth]

i will reiterate, you should read animeGAF some day (especially if ABF and or Macodin are around)

ABF has the most deceiving total post count ever.

 

[Big One]

You said the Moon's Eye Plan was the worst plot twist in the history of literature.

Well yeah, now I'm starting to think the entirety of Wolf Guy is the worst thing ever...I just read the chapter of that buck-tooth dude obsessing about sticking it inside the female cast's vagina. Yeah you know, this shit really is terrible. The level of misogyny here is unbelievable and kind of contradictory to the message of RAPE IS BAD.

 

[upandaway]

Big One has a point, Naruto, DBZ, and Bleach are kind of outliers in regards to its characters. They literally sideline and make their cast useless or become jobbers for the popular ones or whatever crazy thing they have going on.

I got lost in the previous discussion but if I may, this caught my eye

Is that a bad thing? I seriously think that kind of attitude was what saved Nurarihyon from being mediocre forever. If a character is not popular, fuck it. It's probably that way because it sucks.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

I got lost in the previous discussion but if I may, this caught my eye

Is that a bad thing? I seriously think that kind of attitude was what saved Nurarihyon from being mediocre forever. If a character is not popular, fuck it. It's probably that way because it sucks.

Huh i don't get this Nurarihyon has all it's main chars from since near the start of the manga and they still get fights even in the current arc .
Also it's bad thing because you should write the manga how you want and not how much people like a certain char.

Well yeah, now I'm starting to think the entirety of Wolf Guy is the worst thing ever...I just read the chapter of that buck-tooth dude obsessing about sticking it inside the female cast's vagina. Yeah you know, this shit really is terrible. The level of misogyny here is unbelievable and kind of contradictory to the message of RAPE IS BAD.

lololol i wonder if you pass chapter 60 yet things get really bad from there .

 

[Angry Grimace]

Well yeah, now I'm starting to think the entirety of Wolf Guy is the worst thing ever...I just read the chapter of that buck-tooth dude obsessing about sticking it inside the female cast's vagina. Yeah you know, this shit really is terrible. The level of misogyny here is unbelievable and kind of contradictory to the message of RAPE IS BAD.

If you thought Naruto was worse than Wolf Guy I would have questioned your sanity.

Naruto is pretty middle of the road in its genre. If you think it was good at any point, it's better than a lot of shitty battle manga. In Fairy Tail, there's only one good character

Spoiler

Juvia

and that's kind of a joke character

 

[upandaway]

Huh i don't get this Nurarihyon has all it's main char from since near the start of the manga and they still get fight even in the current arc .

Nurarihyon changed gears plenty of times due to popularity polls and the general reader opinion. I can count like 2 or 3 times on the spot. It wasn't like the MCs changed but their focus completely shifted.

 

[Infinite Justice]

ABF has the most deceiving total post count ever.

Indeed.

Well yeah, now I'm starting to think the entirety of Wolf Guy is the worst thing ever...I just read the chapter of that buck-tooth dude obsessing about sticking it inside the female cast's vagina. Yeah you know, this shit really is terrible. The level of misogyny here is unbelievable and kind of contradictory to the message of RAPE IS BAD.

Best of all you still haven't gotten to the good stuff yet...

If you thought Naruto was worse than Wolf Guy I would have questioned your sanity.

Naruto is pretty middle of the road in its genre. If you think it was good at any point, it's better than a lot of shitty battle manga. In Fairy Tail, there's only one good character

Spoiler

Juvia

and that's kind of a joke character

thats a funny way of

Spoiler

spelling Gerard

 

[Angry Grimace]

Indeed.



Best of all you still haven't gotten to the good stuff yet...




thats a funny way of

Spoiler

spelling Gerard

You son of a bitch.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Nurarihyon changed gears plenty of times due to popularity polls and the general reader opinion. I can count like 2 or 3 times on the spot. It wasn't like the MCs changed but their focus completely shifted.

Well i never really noticed that to tell there truth .
Can you point out sometimes for me just wondering about it .

 

[Big One]

Wolf Guy handles the paneling so fucking terribly when it tries to do flashbacks. When they were switching between flashbacks of various characters in those couple of chapters I had no idea what I was following or what the fuck I was reading, and then all of a sudden Wolf Guy starts ranting about how being a wolf is noble and is NOTHING like being a dog or something.

I think the detective/reporter dude is really awesome though so there's that saving grace

 

[Dresden]

Well i never really noticed that to tell there truth .
Can you point out sometimes for me just wondering about it .

Don't know about 2 or 3, but Tsurara's change from minor side character to probably the 1st or 2nd main heroine was pretty noticeable.