Seriously. That scene is still the most badass thing ever.
Also, watching enemy AI drop a bubble shield or deployable cover as it notices a fuel rod flying toward its face is a zen-like feeling. Equipment makes AI seem so much smarter.
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Halo: Reach |OT7| What are They to Say Now?
- Thread starter The Librarian
- Start date
Also, watching enemy AI drop a bubble shield or deployable cover as it notices a fuel rod flying toward its face is a zen-like feeling. Equipment makes AI seem so much smarter.
Tha Robbertster
Member
You could make it so that your reticule doesn't turn red when you are inside the bubble. And you'd be surprised to see the amount of people that do not check their motion sensor, really baffling.
Equipment suffered from deployment latency and having much of the gameplay come to a standstill. Look at it this way. You mentioned in the post earlier that you want that speed back, you want that mobility, but if you put something like a bubble shield into a map, it only causes slow down and for more bullshit encounters.
I have said time before I am open for them carefully creating new pick ups like the Overshield and Camo from Halo 1/2/3 and act for a 30 sec. time frame, or in that formula. And by doing so with this, restricting how many count per map. For small maps there should be no more than two pick ups. Guardian is a good example. Before they wiped away the Flare, they had four all together, and Guardian was a very small map. Those aren't items you "fight" over. They're everywhere, and instance like this isn't a barometer I'm content with. You put these pick ups in neutral spots, or you put them in key positions (see Overshield in Terminal on the train tracks, the Camo in Zanzibar in the middle hole on the wheel, or the Overshield in Colossus down on the lower part of the map). Some maps aren't required to have them, so you don't put them on a map just for the sake of it. Midship, Lockout, Sanctuary, all thrived without them, but a map like Beaver Creek was fantastic for it. With Halo 3 and equipment, they just created an overload for them, and it was a gross mess.
I'm anxious to see what they plan on doing - really hope they don't go overboard on weapons/misc stuff being overkill on a map, ala Battle Canyon and Highlands.
Just stand behind it. I did that a lot in Halo 3.
But yea go fuckin nuts in campaign. I mean, that space ship flying mission in Reach was awesome. Keep that shit out of multiplayer though.
The Librarian
Banned
yeah, the big flaw with most of the DLC maps has been a total lack of restriant on power weapons and shit. hopefully that is more CA's fault and less 343's (i worry for halo 4 otherwise)
The Real Napsta
Member
I was gonna say most of them are H1 maps and that's just how they were created but then I remembered what they did to the Reach version of Beaver Creek.
They are all pretty bad, Anniversary maps aside of course. Anchor 9 is alright...
thezerofire
Banned
My biggest problem with the DLC maps is yeah, they're pretty and all, but there is no logic to them at all. No flow, no decent sightlines
the one thing that i feel NEEDS to be addressed in halo 4 is the vehicles. more than anything else they were ruined in reach and they used to be responsible for some of the most enjoyable and memorable halo moments. i hate BTB in reach because of how terrble that aspect of the sandbox has become. i'm specifically talking about the OP banshee and horrible driving warthog btw.
I think the bubble shield is a fun game mechanic because you can use it to "be a hero" instead of just to save yourself. For example, throw down a bubble shield to save your team mates who are about to die, or whatever. The bubble shield in Halo 3 doesn't last very long, and it doesn't completely stop gameplay (you can rush into it) and it's not nearly as crappy as armor lock.
Also, simply due to the fact that it's a pick up, it can be included or excluded from maps easily as required.
ncsuDuncan
Member
I think you guys are underestimating the impact that would have on your situational awareness. Sure, you still have your radar so you aren't completely clueless but you have no idea if a Warthog is about to careen through the bubble and ruin your day.
Other thoughts:
- It shouldn't be reusable like the Drop Shield. One-time use pickup like the H3 Bubble Shield.
- It should deploy instantly like the Drop Shield. The H3 Bubble Shield was frustratingly slow.
Sure you can stand behind the bubble, but then you lose the regen effect and the 360 coverage. You're basically turning it into a directional shield and putting yourself on even ground with your attackers.
Other thoughts:
- It shouldn't be reusable like the Drop Shield. One-time use pickup like the H3 Bubble Shield.
- It should deploy instantly like the Drop Shield. The H3 Bubble Shield was frustratingly slow.
ElzarTheBam
Member
I'm a pretty big fan of condemned, probably my favourite since avalanche.
The fact that it stalls gameplay and turns combat into a mess of CQB without intention of doing so. If I'm shooting somebody and they are one shot from dying, I do not want to see any more bullshit of them deploying an item or using an ability to escape from that death.
"you can still rush into it!" - not if I'm a decent ways away, only in close quarters and even then it causes a grenade/AR spray/melee mess.
I love Anchor 9, although the shield door shit has got to go. I thought they had learned their lesson when they released the shield-less versions of Snowbound and Epitaph later in Halo 3's lifespan, but nope, next game they release more of it.
The Real Napsta
Member
Agreed. Regen and BubS were so bad.
The Librarian
Banned
Armor abilities are far worse than equipment. There is no "no argument." Armor abilities are equipment on steroids available to everyone at all times and infinite use.
AAs are way worse IMO. People can just spam them all day.
I really enjoyed equipment. Grav lift, mine, bubble shield, drainer, etc really spiced things up and made for some fun gameplay dynamics. Regen sucked though.
The Drop Shield being destructible from the outside with enough damage and deploying instantly were its only saving graces. Playing H3 last night and seeing Mauler/Shotgun/Flag Bubble Shield camping (without repercussion or a viable counter to the person sitting outside) all in the same game were enough to turn me off on how it worked in H3 entirely.
On equipment in general, there was a focus placed on the wrong pieces of equipment previously (as well as the overabundance issue that's been explained). Directly modifying your ability to shoot dudes in the face and/or get shot in the face is a horrible way to go about it. Movement modifiers like the Grav Lift, visual and tertiary system modifiers like the Flare and Radar Jammer? Would have been infinitely less egregious than the Bubble Shield, Regen, and Power Drainer, all of which are cheap, no-effort-required ways to either get a kill or avoid being killed. But rather than fixing their associated bugs, they were axed and could never be used again, leaving only the worst equipment left for use.
I would say Regen is worse than AL; but Regen was also the most imba of the equipment I think.
AL I think is still quite alot worse than BubS, mostly because it can be infinitely used; whereas you lose that BubS after 1 use.
The real question should be, can Equipment and AAs, or some hybrid of them, be used in a competitive environment?
While MLG now has their NBNS gametype, and that is great, that is far away from what 'normal' people play when they play the competitive playlists in Reach. Getting more people into the competitive side of the game means making the competitive settings pretty standard. This is why even scrubs can watch SC2 streams where pros are playing, because they are playing the exact same game, just at a much higher level.
Watching MLG currently isn't very similar to watching normal Reach, especially with all those grey maps.
AL I think is still quite alot worse than BubS, mostly because it can be infinitely used; whereas you lose that BubS after 1 use.
The real question should be, can Equipment and AAs, or some hybrid of them, be used in a competitive environment?
While MLG now has their NBNS gametype, and that is great, that is far away from what 'normal' people play when they play the competitive playlists in Reach. Getting more people into the competitive side of the game means making the competitive settings pretty standard. This is why even scrubs can watch SC2 streams where pros are playing, because they are playing the exact same game, just at a much higher level.
Watching MLG currently isn't very similar to watching normal Reach, especially with all those grey maps.
The flip side to that is, you suckered that guy into dropping his bubble shield to protect himself rather than some other use for which it would be more beneficial. I loved seeing that in Halo 3.
Bubble shields work when they are scarce. I always got a kick out of seeing the other team have some bozo drop the bubble shield to save themselves when it was desperately needed to protect a flag carrier, for instance. Knowing theirs was out of commission was useful. As a tactical element I thought it was a good addition. The change in Reach where they can be destroyed pretty easily (especially with plasma weapons), combined with Halo 3's relative scarcity, is something I'd like to see.
The trick with that kind of equipment is always making sure it was deployed correctly. It shouldn't be in a FFA game, for instance, where its only use is the one you described. Personally I loved those little moments where combat would pause and we'd have to rethink what to do. But if you push that too far we get Reach.
I don't really see how this is the case. Dropping one loud beeping trip mine is not the same as some dude with evade and a sword on Countdown, which is game-breaking. One bubblle shield on a map is different than everyone spawning with a reusable one.
I liked equipment because they make things like trip mines and power drains possible, rather than focusing on player ability. Reach's mistake was forcing pick ups, equipment and armor abilities all to work the same way (that would be, as armor abilities). Different categories of abilities should be treated differently, and deployed with greater care than things like evade are.
xxjuicesxx
Member
If only there was some ability we had as humans to get used to new things and use them in a way that helped us... If only.
Well too bad, lets just play the same Halo for ten years instead! RIGHT!?
Well too bad, lets just play the same Halo for ten years instead! RIGHT!?
Cumulatively, armor abilities are far worse than equipment, in my opinion, especially as loadouts.
I like the Hologram AA, and Jetpack would be great if it were treated as a vehicle on some maps but sucks as an armor ability.
Sprint makes Reach more fun, but mostly because the base movement speed is so slow. If it is in Halo 4, it probably should just be built into standard movement.
Armor Lock, Evade, Drop Shield all break Halo.
Camo should just be replaced with the Camo pickup.
Hitmonchan107
Member
Vehicle boarding says hello.
Hypertrooper
Member
Isn't the Halo 2 BR an innovation too?
xxjuicesxx
Member
Dubshot and BXR were pretty awesome innovations.
thezerofire
Banned
I don't care what anyone says, I liked button glitches in halo 2
You can like them all you want.
So we're just going to pretend saved films and Forge don't exist?
And they failed because the vocal minority just wanted Halo 2, more wanted CoD, and the rest didn't care either way.
I could BXB ok. BXR if I was lucky. And could NEVER double shot.
But fuck did I love the button glitches. I think they added to the game. I'm not sure if they should implement a system like that in Halo 4 or not, but its a free idea for an FPS no one capitilized on. Button Combos for shooters. Like in fighters.
I like this idea.
I could NEVER do button combos in Halo 2 when I played but after a few years and going back to playing it on XBC I could do it with ease.
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
Add sprint to Halo 4 (even in short CoD-style bursts) and I will love you forever 343i.
Have you ever played Street Fighter 4 against a top level player? You don't want rote button combos. And it would be a surefire recipe for unintended consequences.
Why not just fast, mechanized-supersoldier movement speed all the time?
Why do we need sprint at all? A spartan should be able to move at a pretty fast clip ALL the time, and still fire weapons perfectly.
No thanks on button combos, I thought we were playing a shooter, not street fighter.
-27 is for pros only.
I play fighters, but I never played against a major winning professional, to answer your rhetorical question. The proposed addition doesn't even approach that realm of sophistication and ability threshold.
Nobody is asking for rote combos. BxR isn't rote, or more precisely, it isn't significantly more difficult to execute than the regular melee. You can do it the first time you try it, and the execution to do it consistently is laughably small compared to real rote memorization combos in fighters. However, it can flesh out the melee system more, adding CQC depth to a shooter that would be unprecedented. The options open up so battles are more interesting than the trades we have now.
Typical response. They both employ the same type of skill.
I liked button combos, added a new skill gap to the game that didn't result in cheating. You had to practice these things, they weren't handed to you. I always hear the excuse "oh what about the inexperienced players etc" Well the same could be said about certain jumps, strafing, learning weapon times etc. Not that 343i or Bungie could put it or anything, they were a beautiful mistake and I miss them.
I meant the main thing that they tried to innovate into their multiplayer mechanics. Bungie did a lot of GREAT things but they also failed in other parts.
I meant the main thing that they tried to innovate into their multiplayer mechanics. Bungie did a lot of GREAT things but they also failed in other parts.
Gabotron ES
Member
No one is asking for an Up Down B A X R R combo or something.
Keep it nice and short. 3 buttons worked well in Halo 2.
I'd love for a shooter to do this. It would probably be an arena shooter too.
Rickenslacker
Banned
Halo 2 had vehicle boarding which of all the mechanics they've injected, I can honestly say only made the game better. Those three listed are bad though, I agree.
However, Halo 3 had a great innovation for the series. Bumper Jumper! Too bad Reach fucked that one up too.
I don't think I'd agree.
This is like saying Halo and Starcraft employ the same type of skill.
I switched from Default back to BJ since I mainly play MLG/Snipers/Anniversary now, it's beautiful.
Hypertrooper
Member
They shouldn't be in MM. They are cool in Singleplayer, but I hate it when I assassinate someone instead of punch him down. Strangely when I want to assassinate someone, I'll always beat someone down. sigh.
ncsuDuncan
Member
I'm sure most of you are aware of it (and will roll your eyes at this shameless plug), but there are always new faces in the thread to preach to.
Armor Equipment by ncsuDuncan
TLDR: Armor Abilities are the devil. There might be a middle ground between AAs and Equipment that everyone can enjoy.
Armor Equipment by ncsuDuncan
TLDR: Armor Abilities are the devil. There might be a middle ground between AAs and Equipment that everyone can enjoy.
KidA Seven
Member
Equipment was shit. It's part of the direction that is plaguing Halo right now. It was a way to slow down the gameplay and in a cheap manner. Bubble shield, regen, power drainer, etc... are all cheap and were not fought over. That is very important. Camo and overshield's benefits are clear and you fight over them in neutral spots. They promote movement and offense. It speeds up the game when in use, and speeds up the game right before they spawn. People who sit still are disadvantaged by these powerups. Teams can't stay in the same position to hold a setup if powerups are in place or they greatly risk their strategic advantage.
Players were frustrated by the bs equipment brought. I certainly felt cheated when I was about to kill and the enemy popped up with a bubble shield. It forced me to wait it out or to go in for the kill and lose all of my shields automatically. I felt cheated when I was about to kill and the enemy used a regen. Chances are the the person winning was random. I felt cheated when someone used a power drainer. I lost all my shields due to the user simply pressing 1 button and slightly aiming in my general direction. None of these items in use promote movement, nor are they fought over.
Players were frustrated by the bs equipment brought. I certainly felt cheated when I was about to kill and the enemy popped up with a bubble shield. It forced me to wait it out or to go in for the kill and lose all of my shields automatically. I felt cheated when I was about to kill and the enemy used a regen. Chances are the the person winning was random. I felt cheated when someone used a power drainer. I lost all my shields due to the user simply pressing 1 button and slightly aiming in my general direction. None of these items in use promote movement, nor are they fought over.