Halo 4 Announced (MS Conf, 2012, Start Of New Trilogy)
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ViewtifulJC
Banned
More like launch your Mongoose off a ramp and land on top of it like a fuckin' BOSS
Sure, but only if you chose to tackle them in a manner that didn't take advantage of all of the tools at your disposal, which is what that particular method is - the most obvious, least exciting strategy. Jumping off of cranes and buildings (with and without vehicles), having your air support AI drop you off and pick you up after the deed is done, utilizing equipment to get up there, blasting the rear hatch open with vehicular weapons for a direct line to the core, all were viable. There were a ton of different ways to approach each of those fights, and it was up to you to experiment, because that's what the series excels at: giving players the tools and allowing them to use them in novel ways. They're not meant to be particularly difficult, but just another puzzle for you to figure out. There are some things I would change about the Scarabs from a mechanical sense, like giving them a shutdown switch so the core wasn't the only kill option, but shallow doesn't really describe those encounters. They were designed to emphasize the strength of the series, which is experimentation with the sandbox, and that's what they should continue to do down the line.
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
I didn't know that was possible until years after the game came out. I was floored.
les papillons sexuels
Banned
If the scarab fight is shallow then the Shadow of the Colossus is shallow, because you just described every fight in that game.
The Xtortionist
Member
I thought Ueda games were known for their story and atmosphere rather than deep mechanics.
les papillons sexuels
Banned
regardless, you just described the prevailing boss fights in most hack and slash games, Sotc, Castlevania, God of War, etc.
If anything the organic way in which the scarab boss fight occurs should be seen as a shining jewel compared to the overly scripted versions found in the games I mentioned.
The Xtortionist
Member
Of course boss fights shouldn't be scripted. I'm tired of 1. Dodge boss' attacks while they're invulnerable 2. Boss reveals glowing weak spot 3. Shoot weak spot 4. Repeat three times.
I give the Scarabs a bit more credit as at least the player dictates the pace of the fight, but imo they were extremely shallow for what was happening on screen.
Contrary to popular opinion, I actually thought General RAAM was a great shooter boss. Probably a bit too challenging in the context of the overall game, but that shit was great. He demanded accuracy by constantly moving in on the player. He tested the player's ability to react quickly to gunfire and seek cover. He tested the player's spacial awareness in forcing them to stay in the light, left they be eaten alive by Kryll. He tested the player's ability to switch positions quickly and safely when he got too close. Not to mention he was HARD. All he needed was a big fat life bar (note to Frankie: I fucking love life bars for bosses. Watching the life bar fill up along with the boss' name appearing really gets me pumped to kick some ass. Just saying).
I have hopes for Halo 4, but again, shooter bosses are nigh-impossible to execute well unless there's a sound dodge mechanic in place. Deus Ex: HR's bosses are a good example of why this doesn't work. Limited mobility means bosses can't throw non-cheap feeling projectiles at the player and force them to react, and the game turns into either stop and pop or a situation where the player has to just tank it out in the boss' face. A good boss needs be able to attack the player from multiple angles; limiting mobility just reduces the kinds of attacks a boss can have without feeling unfair. Look at Samus from Metroid Prime. Her high jump allows the bosses to use shockwave attacks. Her strafe jump allows the bosses to sling projectiles around without feeling cheap. These two mobility options open up many angles of attack for the bosses to use as opposed to instant-travelling bullets, maybe some easy-to-dodge explosives and nothing else.
Just throwing this out there: Give Chief something like the Evade AA from Reach for Halo 4 single player and they could do some great boss fights.
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
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Banned
Yes, until you realize that you're not really in that much hurry while in cover. When he approaches the cover, it takes him an awful lot of time to cross over to the other side where he can actually hurt you. That made the fight bearable for me, but it also made him appear really stupid and, well, scripted.
The Xtortionist
Member
Most bosses in games are stupid. When I said "scripted" I meant horribly restrictive, or basically a set of objectives rather than an actual fight. Uncharted 1's final boss is an example. Instead of an actual fight it just feels like grinding toward the next trigger for something new to happen. By contrast, I thought the Bogey fights in Vanquish were great.
I know that seems like a contradiction with me using Quadraxis as an example of a good boss fight. I guess the difference is that there's more interaction in that fight between Samus and the boss. True, there are phases. but the whole thing feels more organic and never do I feel like I'm pushing to the next thing to happen. It feels like an intimate, 1v1 fight to the death.
This is all really abstract and hard to articulate but perhaps the way to describe bosses I like vs those I don't is: "Me trying to kill them" vs "Me doing various things which will eventually lead to them dying". They sound very similar and I am trying to think of a way to make it clearer.
The Librarian
Banned
Great response. Of course, for Halo 4, I'd like to see 343 expand on the concept of Scarab fights by offering more ways to take them down while offering as many means to take 'em down as in Halo 3.
It's a totally different experience to take down a Scarab with a Chopper than with a tank.
Or a sniper rifle. Or through aerial insertion. So many options.
Seriously, HOW IS THIS NOT THE BEST THING EVER?!
dragonelite
Member
squidhands
Member
Nailed it beautifully. I'll never forget accidentally ramping into the cargo bay on a Mongoose and fighting my way up to the core to blow that big bastard apart. <3 The Storm
So the Xbox 360 life span is coming to end and this is going to land on the next Xbox?
Yup. Bring back the epic battles. Reach was so small-scale and featured nothing anywhere close to this kind of awesome. The brawl in the lake basin on The Storm, starting with the rocket 'Goose and climaxing with the Scarab was so incredible. Then they up and top it on The Ark. Somehow.
[Nintex];33722704 said:They have that Retro Studios designer on this right?
I wouldn't worry about bosses Halo fans
So long as they're not formal bosses, but climactic battles or high level enemies that operate within the same rules as the combat sandbox. More like Halo 3's Scarabs and Brute Chieftains, less like Halo 2's bosses.
[Nintex];33722704 said:I wouldn't worry about bosses Halo fans
The best part was how they teased a Scarab encounter, but then some jackass with a flat top tells you that there's no way two Spartans could get past it... after you've killed four Scarabs in Halo 3. And one more as an ODST.
But maybe those parts aren't canon anymore, I'm kind of losing track here.
The Librarian
Banned
[Nintex];33722704 said:They have that Retro Studios designer on this right?
I wouldn't worry about bosses Halo fans
The bosses I faced off in Metroid Prime 3 were no where near as fun as any of the Scarab battles in Halo 3. So there is some cause to worry, yes. All they need to do is look at Halo 3 and, well, not Metroid Prime.
B_Rik_Schitthaus
Banned
The best part was how they teased a Scarab encounter, but then some jackass with a flat top tells you that there's no way two Spartans could get past it... after you've killed four Scarabs in Halo 3. And one more as an ODST.
But maybe those parts aren't canon anymore, I'm kind of losing track here.
I once tried to stop an fight those Scarabs, they just walk off, such blue-balling.
Domino Theory
Crystal Dynamics
Does Glasslands pick up anytime soon? Because I'm getting bored of it. Not that it's bad or anything, but it doesn't seem as fiction-dense as Cryptum (which I enjoyed), it's just a bunch of different Halo characters talking shit to each other and hitting on the first female they see.
The Arbiter centric chapters are always fun, but I want shit to go down. This is post-Halo 3, step it up!
The Arbiter centric chapters are always fun, but I want shit to go down. This is post-Halo 3, step it up!
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
Exactly.
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
Glasslands has the least amount of action of any Halo book. Well... yeah.
It's the first part of a trilogy, I imagine it's setting the scene for the next two books.
Z
ZombieFred
Unconfirmed Member
I think by the sounds of things, the book's sense of pacing and where it dwells into might not be your thing. I loved it myself because it did a good job on explaining the aftermath of Halo 3 with the current races and factions we know of. But it's definitely not something that really open what's behind the curtains in the universe, or its links to the reclaimer arc. Not yet anyway (this is a trilogy after all). I see this more as building the characters to set the scene for the storm that's about to happen.
Well that settles it!
The Librarian
Banned
Agreed. I'm glad we're on the same page here. <3
The only thing the scarab battles in Halo 3 have on Metroid Prime (Corruption)'s bosses are the somewhat dynamic nature at which they can be taken down in. Corruption is arguably the weakest of the three Prime games. The boss fights in the original Metroid Prime are the best boss battles in any FPS game to date. Even Echoes had better boss fights than Halo 3. I will say the scarab battles were probably the only redeeming thing about that game's campaign. The first time I fought them, they were awesome.
Yeah the Scarabs were awesome and I'm sure they'll look at that too. I'm thinking about Scarab battles meet Metroid Prime-like bosses and it's like one big amazing thing in my head.
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
The Librarian
Banned
A smiley face with three eyes is the first symbol.
I'm not saying it's Aliens but
...it's aliens.
That doesn't mean we won't see a replacement for the Scarab in Halo 4.
I'm not saying it's Aliens but
...it's aliens.
No scarabs in Halo 4 because of the "no purple" edict at 343i.
That doesn't mean we won't see a replacement for the Scarab in Halo 4.
In the art teaser trailer we saw a purple building, so purple is in for Halo 4No scarabs in Halo 4 because of the "no purple" edict at 343i.
I think we will see a more subdued type of purple being used.
Yes, Hyper I broke my promise of not visiting this thread for the rest of this year lol
The writing over at Forward Unto Dawn is incredible work, but is mostly just a deeper take on the information that we've already been provided with. The presentation of these is quite different from what we usually see from them. What's going on here?
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
Checking daily might help you find out. =)
And thanks!
Think of it as a little fun leading up to Primordium. A little experiment. Hope folks find it worthwhile.
Surely you mean "Checking daily might help you find out.
lybertyboy
Thinks the Evil Empire is just misunderstood.
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
Not even a little bit. It's quite persistent in its unwillingness to provide much of anything to get excited about. A lot of words are written for characters to be so shallow and for the fiction to only take a half step forward.
Monocle
Member
At least every major human character in the book gets their turn to void their bowels all over Dr. Halsey. That's a good thing, right?
ToyMachine228
Member
I'm going to spoiler tag this but it's not really a huge spoiler. Just Glasslands discussion.
Why all the sudden is it a big push to make make Halsey look like the biggest asshole in science fiction history? I certainly understand the argument about what she did being immoral, but there's almost no argument present in Glasslands about it also being necessary and for the greater good. It just falls flat. Halsey herself dismisses that and admits to herself that she's a coward and only trying to clear her own conscience. While I enjoyed Glasslands as it gave me something post-Halo 3 to read, it does close to nothing to move Halo lore forward. Basically, both humans and Elites are in fighting amongst themselves, don't trust each other, and a Spartan 4 program exists. Nothing else really happens.
Monocle
Member
Blame the author, Karen Traviss. She's given every indication—in interviews, the 343 Sparkcast, and Glasslands itself—that she harbors what verges on a personal vendetta against Dr. Halsey. There's no sensible reason why this should be so. Halsey did some unambiguously evil things, it's true. It's also true that many ONI employees were complicit in the Spartan program, guilty not just by association with Halsey but by direct involvement in the most heinous aspects of the project. Yet in Glasslands Halsey is the sole scapegoat in the whole affair, not just heaped with indignities by her circumstances and the characters who know her, but actually recast as the Halo universe's spiritual successor to Dr. Mengele.
This is not at all in keeping with her characterization in any of the other novels (nor the one game where she makes an appearance). I strongly disagree with the way this antihero of sorts has been transformed into a goatee-stroking villain in the eyes of every character but herself. Halsey was interesting when she was a woman of equivocal morals and unequivocal genius, with hints of redemptive ambivalence and emerging conscience. One book turned her into a caricature.
Barrow Roll
Member
Okay, this made me laugh, lol.