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[SeanR1221]

http://www.google.com/search?q=princess accessories for ipad

Apple has blurred those lines, as previously stated. The way I use my iPad is radically different from say, the way my 16 year old sister with autism uses her iPad.

 

[Noshino]

And I never really understood this. It seems illogical to judge a game's worth by how "expensive" it looked. Hardly thinking in terms of marginal utility, Kev!

I think that by expensive he meant "production value"

Regardless, "looking expensive" is a much more logical way to judge a game's worth rather than just automatically deducting value simply because it is a portable game.

 

[Opiate]

Practically, my indifference curves for video games don't even map logically. But I'd have no problem paying more for a game that cost more to develop ("looking expensive" is my only proxy for development costs).

Otherwise, I'd wait for a price drop.

We cannot all be logical in all aspects. For example, I come to NeoGAF frequently, despite the fact I seem to have no interests in common with anyone here.

How can your science explain that?

 

[P90]

The iPad is always socially acceptable and actually a status symbol. Walk into a board room carrying a 3DS or Vita vs. an iPad and see the difference in the way people react. Even in this day and age gaming has a negative stigma among most adults. Just ask the hosts of the Today Show.

That is because the iPad is a tool that helps you get work done and is a wonderful ereader. It is a wonderful educational tool as well. The 3DS and Vita are meant to play games on.

Since when does anyone take the gaming opinions of the Today Show seriously? C'mon!

 

[devilhawk]

Agreed. Thankfully, consumers are in agreement. Android and iPhone revenues are in a freefall as we speak:
randomnumberspiechart[IMG][/QUOTE]

I love extrapolation graphs. My favorite:
[IMG]http://www.paulkramm.com/junkdrawer/wii_ps3_xbox_forecast_425.jpg

I think the author is right in pointing towards the handheld market as a whole (which is not a novel thought), but it is way to early to judge the Vita individually.

 

[Puppet Shadow]

This sort of response confuses me because what is "shit" is all subjective anyway. Wouldn't the best outcome for something like the Vita be that it has all games from 99 cent apps to 50 dollar games?

Hmmm, I just don't know anymore. The lines are so blurred now.

I look at it as a value thing. I justify a lot of game purchases to my wife with the value argument: $10 for a 2 hour movie, $50 for a 80 hour game. Recently, she pointed out her 99 cent Angry Birds that she's been playing for over a year, so ya...

 

[Takao]

I will admit there is a stigma associated with gaming hardware, but I felt that was very much a problem with the older generation who never grew up playing video games. That's not a problem I thought would exist with people under the age of 30...

 

[SeanR1221]

How many of them are less than a dollar or not ports? The comic referred to iPhone games under a buck each.

Why can't they be ports? The comic never said they were all iOS originals?

And like I said, I'll make a list. Can they be games that HAVE been reduced to .99. Or do they have to be base .99?

 

[Sky Chief]

People who think Tycho wins this argument are people that don't own an IOS device.

I have an iPad 2 which I love to death and game on regularly and Tycho wins the argument hands down

Sent from my iPad

 

[Noshino]

We cannot all be logical in all aspects. I, for example, come to NeoGAF frequently, despite the fact I seem to have no interests in common with anyone here.

How can you science explain that?

Evil has pictures of you doing some kinky stuff, which he uses to blackmail you into moderating and making thought provoking comments?

 

[Dr. Kitty Muffins]

So does the JRPG and SRPG market die with the demise of portables or does it migrate?

I honestly think they will migrate to services like XBLA and PSN next gen.

 

[waicol]

Why can't they be ports? The comic never said they were all iOS originals?

And like I said, I'll make a list. Can they be games that HAVE been reduced to .99. Or do they have to be base .99?

While you do that please make a list of all the $50 Vita/3DS games, i know it's difficult to track ALL those games but i like your stance of listing things to prove a point.

 

[SeanR1221]

While you do that pleace make a list of all the $50 Vita/3DS games, i know it's difficult to track ALL those games but i like your stance of listing things to prove things.

Here.

1.) all of them lol they are all 50 lolllll!

That was easy.

 

[Opiate]

I think that by expensive he meant "production value"

Regardless, "looking expensive" is a much more logical way to judge a game's worth rather than just automatically deducting value simply because it is a portable game.

I know that's what he meant, and it's not logical, as he freely admits.

It is logical to judge a game's worth by how much fun you derive from it (i.e. marginal utility), not by how much it cost the developer to make it (i.e. marginal cost).

This is true in any industry. The fact that something costs a great deal to produce is completely irrelevant to that thing's actual worth to the end consumer. Why should I care that they spent a great deal to make it, if that investment does not produce returns for me? Sometimes, games with high production costs use that investment well, and actually increase the fun/marginal utility of the game significantly. In many other cases (in most cases, in my opinion), the money is not spent wisely, and "expensive looking" games are no more fun or useful than cheap looking ones.

Edit: but again, this is not intended as a serious criticism of Y2Kev. No one makes completely rational choices all the time.

 

[Vinci]

Do you read what he wrote? He didn't say "doomed", he said "affected". It should be completely obvious to anyone at ths point that he's right.

It's true he didn't supply an end result, but the end result I responded to is the most likely one advocated by people suggesting how mobile devices are 'affecting' the traditional handheld market. Few people are suggesting that phones and tablets are impacting the handheld market without taking the very questionable next step and stating that it represents the end of that market.

Perhaps he was one of the few. If so, I do owe him an apology.

I know that's what he meant, and it's not logical, as he freely admits.

It is logical to judge a game's worth by how much fun you derive from it (i.e. marginal utility), not by how much it cost the developer to make it (i.e. marginal cost).

In any industry, the fact that something costs a great deal to produce is completely irrelevant to that thing's actual worth to the end consumer. Why should I care that they spent a great deal to make it, if that investment does not produce returns for me? Sometimes, games with high production costs use that investment will, and actually increase the fun/marginal utility of the game significantly. In many other cases (in most cases, in my opinion), the money is not spent wisely, and "expensive looking" games are no more fun or useful than cheap looking ones.

I do so love when you go all economist.

 

[UncleSporky]

Why can't they be ports? The comic never said they were all iOS originals?

And like I said, I'll make a list. Can they be games that HAVE been reduced to .99. Or do they have to be base .99?

I have 8 3DS games. Will you list 320 $1 games for me that will provide more "fun," as Gabe says? I don't care if they've been reduced or not.

You'd probably spend more time finding and downloading them than you would playing 99% of them.

 

[Jokeropia]

It's not socially acceptable. Stigma attached, etc.

You really need more than your anecdotes to claim this. By Nintendo's own demographic research, ~60% of the DS userbase in the US is 18 or older.

 

[Respawn]

Passionate? If it's coming off that way then you're mistaken, lol. What does Vita have going for it in the coming months? Sony doesn't have the luxury of major first party name brands like Nintendo.

On Nov 22 an article was released over on Joystiq that 12 first party titles will be launched in Europe.
So what you're telling me (lol) is that Sony has NO first party titles that are popular to move the unit?

Not going to quote the other person but saying Uncharted won't sell systems is stupid.

If it launched with a new
GT
GOW or
Killzone

it wouldn't sell?

 

[Uno Venova]

I will admit there is a stigma associated with gaming hardware, but I felt that was very much a problem with the older generation who never grew up playing video games. That's not a problem I thought would exist with people under the age of 30...

I don't think it's a popular opinion though, but I have no data besides my own anecdotes.

 

[Vinci]

For what it's worth, I haven't noticed any massive stigma directed towards gaming in a while. Mostly because everyone I know at this point has played the DS, Wii, or Kinect till four in the morning at least once.

 

[SeanR1221]

I have 8 3DS games. Will you list 320 $1 games for me that will provide more "fun," as Gabe says? I don't care if they've been reduced or not.

You'd probably spend more time finding and downloading them than you would playing 99% of them.

How about I name you 8.

You really need more than your anecdotes to claim this. By Nintendo's own demographic research, ~60% of the DS userbase in the US is 18 or older.

And according to their research, what percentage plays in public and how many hours/week in public?

 

[conman]

I will admit there is a stigma associated with gaming hardware, but I felt that was very much a problem with the older generation who never grew up playing video games. That's not a problem I thought would exist with people under the age of 30...

Walk into a college classroom and try talking openly about video games (assuming it's not a class on game design or theory). Still plenty of stigma in the 18-35 crowd.

 

[waicol]

How about I name you 8.

disgonbgood.gif

 

[UncleSporky]

I can beat smartphones pretty handily, actually:

Or:

$7, hell yes. Set for life. Plus what platform is more acceptable and ubiquitous than the PC?

Smartphone users are throwing their money down the drain. You buy 7 games, I'll buy 333,000. Then we'll see who has more "fun."

 

[Medalion]

Walk into a college classroom and try talking openly about video games (assuming it's not a class on game design or theory). Still plenty of stigma in the 18-35 crowd.

You must be in the wrong classrooms then

I know of this age group and these people talk and play the most games anyways

 

[SeanR1221]

disgonbgood.gif

Not really.

 

[Uno Venova]

Walk into a college classroom and try talking openly about video games (assuming it's not a class on game design or theory). Still plenty of stigma in the 18-35 crowd.

No one is going to say anything as long as your talking about games everyone knows about, Gears, COD, Madden etc.

 

[P90]

Walk into a college classroom and try talking openly about video games (assuming it's not a class on game design or theory). Still plenty of stigma in the 18-35 crowd.

Go to a NFL or NBA players house or locker room and see if there is a gaming stigma.

 

[Takao]

I can beat smartphones pretty handily, actually:

They say they sold a million games, do they mean copies of that DVD or did they just sell 6 copies of a DVD containing 155, 000 games and thus sell 1 million games?

It would be amazing if it was the latter

Spoiler

(but I know it's the former)

.

 

[Vinci]

You must be in the wrong classrooms then

I know of this age group and these people talk and play the most games anyways

Hell, I had an economics class break down into system fanboy wars when the razor and razorblades business model came up and someone mentioned Sony's consoles. Sixty people in the class, half international, at least 1/3rd female. Everyone participated in it.

It was pretty awesome in retrospect, though I imagine the professor would've preferred we shut up a bit sooner.

 

[Pureauthor]

Wouldn't the logical thing to do instead of asking for '40 iOS games for 1 (Insert dedicated system) game' be to ask for a match in terms of the asking price for the two different platforms?

I mean, that way we can leave aside the stupid 'Is it .99?' argument.

 

[Plinko]

Go to a NFL or NBA players house or locker room and see if there is a gaming stigma.

LOL

College classes affect the vast majority of people in that age range.

NBA/NFL locker rooms/player houses affect probably .0001% of the population.

Not making a statement about the "stigma" discussion here, but that's a ridiculous comparison.

 

[Puppet Shadow]

How about I name you 8.



And according to their research, what percentage plays in public and how many hours/week in public?

The Wii made gaming more acceptable to non gamers. But if I see a 30 year old with a DS in public, I just wonder what game he or she is playing. People walking and texting in public is now common, and to me that's pretty much the same thing.

 

[UncleSporky]

How about I name you 8.

$8 out of $320, leaving me with enough money to buy a 3DS, three games and some eShop titles? No thanks. We're comparing entertainment dollars here, you spend the same amount I did on dollar games and show me that you're more satisfied.

 

[Jokeropia]

And according to their research, what percentage plays in public and how many hours/week in public?

There's obviously no research about this since it's pretty uninteresting from their standpoint, but I don't see how it matters. It is a fact that gaming on dedicated systems, handheld or stationary, is an hobby not even remotely limited to children, so any social stigma would only come from closed-minded people who are ignorant about this and still believe that only kids play videogames. To care even the slightest bit about what these people think strikes me as quite insecure, to be honest.

 

[Ken Masters]

$250 tag is going to hurt the Vita bad. Average consumer doesn't give a damn about bang for buck with the technology. They just see the 3ds at $169.99 and Vita at $250. Plus iPhone, iPod, and iPad competition and Vita is going to flop

 

[Vinci]

There's obviously no research about this since it's pretty uninteresting from their standpoint, but I don't see how it matters. It is a fact that gaming on dedicated systems, handheld or stationary, is an hobby not even remotely limited to children, so any social stigma would only come from closed-minded people who are ignorant about this and still believe that only kids play videogames. To care even the slightest bit about what these people think strikes me as quite insecure, to be honest.

Between the DS, Wii, and the various smartphones, I think it would be pretty damn hard for me to find someone who cares whether I'm playing a game or not.

EDIT @ Uncle Sporky: So far my favorites on iPhone are Jetpack Joyride and Steambirds. Great titles. I haven't paid a cent as of yet, though, so it's hard to say how the paid titles compare.

 

[waicol]

Didn't a kid spend $99 into an IOS game shop for a "super fun can't remember what was it"?, guess their parents got alot of "fun" with that.

 

[Takao]

Didn't a kid spend $99 into an IOS game shop for a "super fun can't remember what was it"?, guess their parents got alot of "fun" with that.

Are you referring to that fish game report on the Daily Show? Kid spent a lot more than $99, but I'm not sure how this fits into the conversation. Free to play (but pay for perks) situations actually will exist on Vita.

 

[P90]

LOL

College classes affect the vast majority of people in that age range.

NBA/NFL locker rooms/player houses affect probably .0001% of the population.

Not making a statement about the "stigma" discussion here, but that's a ridiculous comparison.

College students aren't used in advertisements. Nba and nfl players are. People buy into what their "heroes" do. Leaders/heroes (nfl and nba plyers) change the world of followers (kids and college students).

Console-wise, The Wii's stigma is in the 13-25 year old range. In The other ends of the age spectrum, it is king, if my memory of a demograhics study done a couple years ago.

 

[Dynamite Shikoku]

I have 8 3DS games. Will you list 320 $1 games for me that will provide more "fun," as Gabe says? I don't care if they've been reduced or not.

You'd probably spend more time finding and downloading them than you would playing 99% of them.

This is so stupid. I have some 99 cent ios games that have entertained me for months. 40 ios games doesn't equal the same amount of time you spend playing 1 3DS game. It's just a stupid comic.

 

[SeanR1221]

There's obviously no research about this since it's pretty uninteresting from their standpoint, but I don't see how it matters. It is a fact that gaming on dedicated systems, handheld or stationary, is an hobby not even remotely limited to children, so any social stigma would only come from closed-minded people who are ignorant about this and still believe that only kids play videogames. To care even the slightest bit about what these people think strikes me as quite insecure, to be honest.

What percentage of adult males look at porn.

Now what percentage will openly buy porn in public.

What percentage will look at a dirty magazine in public.

See what I'm getting at?

Social stigma to just owning the DS as an adult? Eh..not really.

Busting out the DS in front of your co-workers during break...uhh...

Bringing the DS to a date to play while you wait to be seated at the table?

Hey, the holidays just passed. Down time after the family dinner? Pull out the DS and start playing.

"Yes close minded, I am above the childish views, etc."

 

[Boss Man]

You must be in the wrong classrooms then

I know of this age group and these people talk and play the most games anyways

I go to school for Computer Science and virtually every single person in the class is a huge nerd and plays tons of video games. We talked a lot about how Skyrim might effect our grades.

Still, I've only seen one of those people with a handheld console ever. It was when the 3DS was first released and he showed us the 3D and stuff. He brought it to class for two days, now it stays at his house. Even among people who are really into games, handhelds just aren't something you take into public.


In other classes, people might talk about the new Call of Duty game or something. Gaming is socially acceptable, but being so into it that you carry a handheld around is not. Playing Call of Duty for more than 5 hours a day is even acceptable (kinda), but playing Pokemon on a DS while waiting for class to start is not. It's kind of a tricky thing, but...handhelds just still aren't socially acceptable.

 

[Vinci]

What percentage of adult males look at porn.

Now what percentage will openly buy porn in public.

What percentage will look at a dirty magazine in public.

See what I'm getting at?

Social stigma to just owning the DS as an adult? Eh..not really.

Busting out the DS in front of your co-workers during break...uhh...

Bringing the DS to a date to play while you wait to be seated at the table?

Hey, the holidays just passed. Down time after the family dinner? Pull out the DS and start playing.

"Yes close minded, I am above the childish views, etc."

Did you just compare playing a video game to buying porn?? Really?

 

[Y2Kev]

i'd rather buy porn than play animal crossing

 

[Medalion]

I go to school for Computer Science and virtually every single person in the class is a huge nerd and plays tons of video games. We talked a lot about how Skyrim might effect our grades.

Still, I've only seen one of those people with a handheld console ever. It was when the 3DS was first released and he showed us the 3D and stuff. He brought it to class for two days, now it stays at his house. Even among people who are really into games, handhelds just aren't something you take into public.


In other classes, people might talk about the new Call of Duty game or something. Gaming is socially acceptable, but being so into it that you carry a handheld around is not. Playing Call of Duty for more than 5 hours a day is even acceptable (kinda), but playing Pokemon on a DS while waiting for class to start is not. It's kind of a tricky thing, but...handhelds just still aren't socially acceptable.

I dunno if it's the social acceptance or not you are reading into but maybe just some people don't feel the need to bring it along or break it out as much as some other people in certain places because they'd rather talk to people in class

 

[SeanR1221]

Did you just compare playing a video game to buying porn?? Really?

*woosh*

 

[UncleSporky]

This is so stupid. I have some 99 cent ios games that have entertained me for months. 40 ios games doesn't equal the same amount of time you spend playing 1 3DS game. It's just a stupid comic.

Obviously you've never played Mario Kart online.

Hell, why does anyone spend any money on games at all? No matter which games you name, I bet I could find a hundred free games online that are more fun and have more longevity. A bunch of them would be MMOs that look better than most 360 games, stuff like LOTRO. Another chunk would be flash games that were straight ported over to smartphones with a price attached.

3DS and iPhone owners are both complete suckers for wasting their cash. Lifetime of gaming for free at your fingertips and you pay for Angry Birds? Shit's free with Chrome, bro!

 

[Boss Man]

I dunno if it's the social acceptance or not you are reading into but maybe just some people don't feel the need to bring it along or break it out as much as some other people in certain places because they'd rather talk to people in class

I doubt it, because several people will play PC games on their laptop before/during class. I guess that's worth considering outside of this situation though...but I've literally never seen it so it's hard for me to believe.

 

[Takao]

i'd rather buy porn than play animal crossing

Animal Crossing freaks me out man