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[Dash Kappei]

Be offended all you want, but that's the public perception.

Like I said, if you want to do it, fine, but it's not really socially acceptable when you're an adult.

Offended? Why would I, you're the one restraining yourself to be in some kind of socially acceptable circle which is only in your mind, you're presenting your gf as a close minded person.
My gf wouldn't give a fuck, same for my friends (I have no gamer friends unfortunately, and like I said in that other thread I was never able to lure a gf of mine -past and current- to game with me even on things like Mario Kart... Wik Sports a couple of times is the gaming-together I've had with my gfs) because, you see, I like to surround myself with bright people.

For starter, as per your argument, *I* would be the one to go talking to my gf, with a Nintendo DS on my hands if I had one of me at that particular moment. Not a problem, it's not like I would keep playing the damn thing and ignore a girl I like, as soon as she enterered the room i'd close that console down and be on my way to talk to her.
At most, in-between conversation, she could ask me "what's that?" and I'd just say something like "nothing, something to play videogames on, ahah you know, I was bored... Anyway, what are you doing tonight?"
What's so tragic about that? Your gf would've walked away you say? I pity her, if what you say it's true.

I'm 34, btw, play (and watch!) sports, play the drums, have lots of interests to share with my gf.
It's NOT gaming, it's the person. You're part of the problem, you're causing that to happen and by consequence you're then putting up with it... Thank god I don't give a fuck about that 'problem', as it's only yours.
You had a friend made you realize that having a small/huge game collection wasn't socially acceptable? It's ridiculous you're concerned or even thinking about such things, I wonder for what way more important decisions you let others completely rule over you and your real personality.

 

[Fafalada]

That's technically true in terms of hardware numbers alone

70M with a TieRatio of ~4:1, similar attach to GBA, which in turn had highest handheld attach(afaik) until NDS.
Nothing that wasn't made by Nintendo came even close in software either.

Makes me wonder, do people want to play an FPS over 3G?

I've played a Quake3 clone on iPhone last year, that well - played like Quake did online back when I played it(which was primarily by ISDN modems at the time). And that's as twitch shooting as it gets really, slower paced stuff could only be better.

 

[Zabojnik]

You're going to need a memory card to play some games. Like not just you can't save on some games, more so you can't boot them up. The cheapest memory card is 4GB and will set you back $20.

Are these are the same memory cards that the game you buy in an actual store comes on? Could I, say, buy Uncharted on a memory card, then format the card once I'm done with the game and use it for other games? I suppose not, this is Sony after all, but I have to ask.

 

[SeanR1221]

Offended? Why would I, you're the one restraining yourself to be in some kind of socially acceptable circle which is only in your mind, you're presenting your gf as a close minded person.
My gf wouldn't give a fuck, same for my friends (I have no gamer friends unfortunately, and like I said in that other thread I was never able to lure a gf of mine -past and current- to game with me even on things like Mario Kart... Wik Sports a couple of times is the gaming-together I've had with my gfs) because, you see, I like to surround myself with bright people.

For starter, as per your argument, *I* would be the one to go talking to my gf, with a Nintendo DS on my hands if I had one of me at that particular moment. Not a problem, it's not like I would keep playing the damn thing and ignore a girl I like, as soon as she enterered the room i'd close that console down and be on my way to talk to her.
At most, in-between conversation, she could ask me "what's that?" and I'd just say something like "nothing, something to play videogames on, ahah you know, I was bored... Anyway, what are you doing tonight?"
What's so tragic about that? Your gf would've walked away you say? I pity her, if what you say it's true.

I'm 34, btw, play and watch sports, play the drums, have lots of interest to share with my gf.
It's NOT gaming, is the person. You're part of the problem. Thank god I don't give a fuck about that 'problem', as it's only yours.

That's great.

It's also great you want to bring the topic up again.

Like I said, nothing wrong with going against the grain. More power to you.

 

[Father_Brain]

70M with a TieRatio of ~4:1, similar attach to GBA, which in turn had highest handheld attach(agaik) until NDS.
Nothing that wasn't made by Nintendo came even close in software either.

Which doesn't in any way contradict the facts of my post, and isn't much of an argument taken out of the context of the past few years (how many software success stories have there been in the West since 2008 or so? Would things really have turned out much better in Japan were it not for MH?). I find what Vic suggested above - that exiting the handheld business would have meant conceding most of the Japanese market to Nintendo - to be a much more compelling argument for why Vita had to exist, despite its currently dubious prospects.

 

[Fafalada]

Are these are the same memory cards that the game you buy in an actual store comes on?

Games come on Roms, not memory cards (much larger physically too, and tests so far show they're a bit faster too).
I don't think any company could afford to subsidize rewritable media for games

I find what Vic suggested above - that exiting the handheld business would have meant conceding most of the Japanese market to Nintendo - to be a much more compelling argument for why Vita had to exist, despite its currently dubious prospects.

I dunno, in a world flooded with mobile devices of all shapes and sizes, Vita exists like anything else IMO. Sure most advertising is on phones and 10" phones, but it's hardly a compelling reason to not try to look for market with non-square shaped mobiles.
But the thing is people keep talking like Vita launch was decided on sometime during last 3 months or so, whereas pieces were in place at least 3-4 years ago (PVR winning the contract etc.), ie. before the whole 99c phone games even happened.

 

[Alrus]

"The most successful non-Nintendo handheld?" That's technically true in terms of hardware numbers alone, but it elides over the problematic facts that PSP ended the generation being completely irrelevant in one major territory, only slightly less irrelevant in another, and ultimately succeeded in a third solely on the back of a third-party IP Sony had no role in creating and was unable to secure for Vita. Besides, if Sony's investors are anything like Nintendo's, they'd be downright thrilled to see the company embracing the iOS Uber Alles future.

Huh? I kinda agree with your other points, but I don't Sony investors would be really happy with them spending money on supporting a competitor... They have their own phones to support.

Also while the PSP died in the west, it still pulled decent software sales at the begining and made money for them. Not pursuing a market that was profitable would look like a bad move and be received badly.

In the end, it's a lose-lose situation, they couldn't possibly say "hey, we had a pretty successful first try, but we're not going to try to build anything from it!" but the Vita is now perceived as very risky endeavor and if it fails, they'll get blamed for trying.

 

[Dash Kappei]

That's great.

It's also great you want to bring the topic up again.

Like I said, nothing wrong with going against the grain. More power to you.

Lol, I didn't notice the topic hadn't refreshed in iCab since hours ago.
I definitely would have kept that long post for me had I noticed we were back on the real topic... i've been trolled!

And let's agree to disagree, I have no problem with that

 

[Father_Brain]

Huh? I kinda agree with your other points, but I don't Sony investors would be really happy with them spending money on supporting a competitor... They have their own phones to support.

Yeah, I should have said "Smartphones Uber Alles."

 

[Sinoox]

I think this just another indication of how nobody really cares for gaming handhelds anymore when they've got their smart phone or tablet. Even the hardcore to an extent. I really cannot see Sony cutting the price for that thing though, they already lose money on it, unlike Nintendo.

 

[herod]

Name anything but Xenoblade that's a straight up jRPG on a console that was actually really good. Something you'll remember the next generation (and want to play). I can name 10-20 from the PS2. 20-30 easily from the PSX and 10-12 from SNES.

I think you're talking about a time when people's free time was nowhere near as contested for as it is now, and budgets have never been higher as they are today. A HD jrpg needs to either be a guaranteed hit or heavily subsidised, with the kind of sales numbers we see I doubt very much if Sony's PS2->PS3 failure is a significant factor at all.

Perhaps the WiiU will provide a more suitable ecosphere, being Japanese, having a lower entry cost, and TV-free play options. I worry about the base price though.

 

[MrGame&Watch]

The whole article makes no sense. First he's talking about the 3DS, then tablets, then mobile phones.

That's the point. Investors connect any portable device with an app store as being in the same market. And they do somewhat have a point.

My own personal opinion: I feel that portable game consoles were never the type of device you carry around with you at all times like phones are. Portable games never felt like the type of thing you played for five minutes but an hour. You can get that experience on a phone but most of the time it doesn't feel the same. Smart phones do a lot of things, but not always as well to me

 

[DCharlie]

We found our new burnpork

is this good for me or bad for me?

I've been around here since 1998 - i've no idea what/who burntpork is though. #noattentionspan.

 

[Fantastical]

is this good for me or bad for me?

I've been around here since 1998 - i've no idea what/who burntpork is though. #noattentionspan.

OR DO YOU??!?!
The poster said "burnpork", but you said "burntpork". How did you know his real name is BurntPork?!?! HUH?!?! HUH!?!?

 

[ElyrionX]

Wait. I didn't realize you need a memory card just to boot up some games. And it isn't included in the box? Lol only Sony can pull this shit off.

 

[AdventureRacing]

OR DO YOU??!?!
The poster said "burnpork", but you said "burntpork". How did you know his real name is BurntPork?!?! HUH?!?! HUH!?!?

We have to go deeper!

 

[Little Green Yoda]

I think the reality that Stateofmind and a few others have been trying to get across is that you just about never see adults walking about in public playing DS/PSP in America. But you if you ride a bus/train/subway in New York or Boston (from my own experience traveling through both cities) it's very common to see people doing various activities on their iphones/androids/ipads/blackberries/kindles. Same if you walk into a coffee shop.

I don't know if it's a stigma against handhelds so much as it's just been normalized to see people playing music and games on smart-devices 24/7. DS/PSP have been pushed into a niche that consists of hardcore gamers and children for public consumption. As far as social situations go, no one brings a handheld to a bar, a club, a concert, or a sporting event; if they do, they're all keeping them pocketed. Yet everyone brings a smartphone in these scenarios and is using it constantly. I don't think the PSP/DS can ever duplicate the social utility of portable phones (taking pictures, video, texting, exchanging phone numbers, checking stats, quick google/wiki searches), so I don't think they'll be able to take back whatever marketshare phones have taken.

So are all those DS/PSP units sold in the U.S. owned by children

Spoiler

and man-children

then? Has there ever been a time pre-smartphones when dedicated handhelds were played often in public places in NA?

If anything, it shows that a lot of dedicated handheld owners here play them at home moreso than on the go. Which to me, makes the "omg people only carry one device with them at a time" argument as a way to support the death of dedicated handhelds a flimsy one at best.

 

[monome]

OR DO YOU??!?!
The poster said "burnpork", but you said "burntpork". How did you know his real name is BurntPork?!?! HUH?!?! HUH!?!?

Touché.

By the way, Sony should consider revealing some of the PSVITA Holiday 2012 line-up, because as of now I'm just in for Uncharted and will probably consider rushing though the game and selling everything ASAP.

A friend was ready to let me get his PSVITA for 5 days and I refused because I knew once Uncharted was finished I would have no interest in getting it at launch.

 

[nelsonroyale]

I think it will do alright...its true that smartphones will dominate the budget games market, but people who want flashier games are hardly going to go in that direction. I now have a smart phone, but the types of games that are on these things, are not what I am really that interested in

 

[Supervlieg]

Just include at least a 16gig memcard when you release it in europe. That would get Sony some goodwill back. And those 50$/€ games have to go.

Spoiler

i can buy 50 iphone apps for that money, see who has more fun!

 

[maniac-kun]

I dont think you could produce quality games for the smartphone price range except when they would sell multimillion copies to be profitable.

 

[jman2050]

The main difference between the two is that one is here to stay (and of course, has already been around for much longer).

Anyway I don't mind hijacking the thread, it's worthless as it is - what makes you feel even less about it?

The 99 cent model is more or less solely an issue of market and budget concerns. You may be constrained by the amount of money you can spend, but you still make the game you want to make.

F2P, by its nature, has a direct and substantial influence on the game's design itself. And not for the better.

 

[Vagabundo]

Is there some stigma about adults gaming in the states?

Here in Ireland it is pretty much a given that all adult men will play games, console, pc, handheld, etc. And casual gaming on DS by adults is quite common on public transport. Those captain Pickard ads did their job very well.

 

[Kyon]

Takao darling, just wondering how long you gonna keep calling the Vita dead? lol

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

The VITA has a few advantage on the PSP and PS3 launch.

1- It´s off shelf components, which means the price of said components will go down fast.
2- It´s easier to develop for than launch PSP and PS3.
3- Sony is not bleeding money on it, add to that the off shelf component prices drop very fast will make Sony more flexible on the price than launch PSP and PS3.
4- The VITA has GXC, good online infrastructure, and every game will be available online.
I can see all these giving the VITA a bigger advantage than PS3 and PSP launch period.

I really hope that the VITA will support none gaming app. I also hope that there would be a video, and music store on it.

 

[Takao]

Takao darling, just wondering how long you gonna keep calling the Vita dead? lol

Life is death
Vita is dead

 

[Kyon]

Life is death
Vita is dead

Lmao

 

[Lonely1]

I've played a Quake3 clone on iPhone last year, that well - played like Quake did online back when I played it(which was primarily by ISDN modems at the time). And that's as twitch shooting as it gets really, slower paced stuff could only be better.

Well, my problem with 3G has more to do with the fact that my current $30 contract has a monthly cap of 100MB (!).

And unlimited plans only go up to 500MB...

 

[Freshmaker]

Blue Dragon (very average)

The story's average. The game itself is FF5 on steroids.

 

[Woo-Fu]

I'll start reading Forbes to keep ahead of the videogames industry right after I pick up a copy of Famitsu to figure out where to invest my money, maybe I'll pick up O.J.'s Guide to Marriage while I'm at it.

The problem is that in the eyes of the American media---and presumably many of their customers---there are only two states for any product: unlimited success or abject failure. Limited success? DOOMED! Niche appeal? DOOMED! Sold less than eleventybillion in the first week? OMG! The sky is falling! Of course these are the stories that their readership find interesting. Flawless victory or crushing defeat are good stories, carving out a comfortable niche? Boring.

Fortunately for people interested in the Vita Sony has a pretty long track record of keeping their products alive even when they don't achieve market dominance.

Is there some stigma about adults gaming in the states?

Here in Ireland it is pretty much a given that all adult men will play games, console, pc, handheld, etc. And casual gaming on DS by adults is quite common on public transport. Those captain Pickard ads did their job very well.

Handheld gaming is pretty much an unsightly nerd rash in the US, at least for people trying to appear "adult." Most "adults" I know automatically discount handheld gaming devices but tell them you can read ebooks on them and suddenly it isn't so childish.

 

[slaughterking]

I'm buying a new Sony Bluray player in a few. Everything will be fine for them.

 

[Emitan]

The story's average. The game itself is FF5 on steroids.

Where is my FF6 on steroids? Screw FF5.

 

[Fafalada]

You may be constrained by the amount of money you can spend, but you still make the game you want to make.

Which in current climate means less and less with the model favoring flooding the market rather then releasing what you want.

F2P, by its nature, has a direct and substantial influence on the game's design itself. And not for the better.

True on first part, but I disagree with the second. Granted my perspective is from working the last 4 years on rather high-budget F2Ps, so I'm not really capturing the facebook avalanche and all in there, but I'd argue we're still very much making games we want.
I've had more issues with inheriting existing tech-bases that were never built to do what we need them to do - partly an artifact of having to use existing IPs.

And unlimited plans only go up to 500MB...

Yea that sucks

 

[Gravijah]

Where is my FF6 on steroids? Screw FF5.

ff7

 

[Freshmaker]

Where is my FF6 on steroids? Screw FF5.

That was FF7.

 

[DCharlie]

The poster said "burnpork", but you said "burntpork". How did you know his real name is BurntPork?!?! HUH?!?! HUH!?!?

oh no! Another alt account destroyed!

 

[shaneskim]

IOS increases, yes but
_ between 2009 and 2010 DS revenues were constant, % drop because the total market value increased.
_ 2011 : It is more a matter of DS dying than IOS booming

What were the total revenues in each year out of interest? I always get suspicious at relative comparisons which don't provide absolute figures.

Does that 2011 DS wedge include 3DS?

 

[Mad African]

Sony is pretty much stuck between a rock and hard place here.

One, their handheld is in direct competition with smart phone and tablets, due to the multimedia facets of their machine. Some consumers like dedicated machines, due to their more lenient pricing, while others prefer a jack-of-all-trades/all-in-one systems, regardless of cost, and Sony's traditional leanings toward the latter has thrust their handheld in to a head-to-head race against other more popular devices of that sort.

The second problem is that their core rival, Nintendo, doesn't have that problem. Nintendo has opted to make their handheld a dedicated and cost-effective gaming device, essentially disqualifying it from competition with smart phones and tablets due to its limited multimedia features but at the same time preserving the attention of their niche audience who necessarily don't want a complicated multimedia device, either due to their high pricing or because they have inherent concerns about buying such an expensive and multifaceted device for someone other than them. I can't buy my little niece a Vita, but I'd be more comfortable with buying her a 3DS.

Third is the software. Nintendo can churn out hits faster than Sony due to their simplicity and undemanding hardware resource consumption. Nintendo's IPs also translate more fluidly and beautifully to handhelds, while Sony's are more fitted for consoles. Sony seems to believe there's an overlap, as well, which is probably one of the main reasons why they didn't include a video out feature on the Vita.

Perhaps all of this is premature considering the VITA was just released, but I think Sony should look into transforming their future handhelds into dedicated gaming machines. To me, it seems that they're always trying to encroach upon multiple existing markets with their gaming devices - be it movies, music, television, or whatever. Create and support separate devices for those, or at least simplify their presence on the handhelds for cost purposes and so that people like me wouldn't think twice before buying one for someone else ( as well as myself), as mentioned earlier.

Anyway, just my opinion.

 

[winston_pr]

I honestly figured this would be the case. It was just the first chart I could find via a Google search, and I know people love graphics.

Basically, my point is that the sentiment that smartphone gaming is some garbage fad that will die and give the market back to dedicated gaming handhelds seems silly to me, even if I actually do believe there's still a place for dedicated gaming handhelds. I'll see if a better chart exists. Real work can wait, I suppose.

it smells like the discussion whether pc gaming is dead due to growth of console market. In absolute dollar amounts portable dedicated gaming machines will certainly remain feasible.

mobile gaming is more blue ocean than some think

 

[Nuclear Muffin]

What were the total revenues in each year out of interest? I always get suspicious at relative comparisons which don't provide absolute figures.

Does that 2011 DS wedge include 3DS?

No and that chart has already been debunked many times before. Let's just say that Flurry have a vested interest in making smartphone platforms look more successful than they actually are...

 

[ShinNL]

What I think:

1. It never should've been called the Vita, but rather the PSP2.
2. Should've kept the same form factor & design as PSP.
3. Get rid of the bubble system, everything else of the UI is slick. (The bubble system is a weak attempt to make the system look inviting for all ages)

Sony should've went the PlayStation approach, the shape of the PSP is iconic, just like the DualShock controller. The name is an abbreviation that works well, just like the PS2, PS3.

I personally thought the PSP was a slick device, but the Vita is weirdly oval shaped and it's bulkier. It lost all the charms of the PSP brand. Sony basically took a gamble: wasn't happy with the performance of the PSP brand and decided to start closer from scratch rather than building upon the userbase. That was their mistake. Plus their talk about the holy grail userbase (females), it seems like instead of focusing in a certain strong direction they want to have the cake and eat it too.

A reasonably expensive handheld with lots of power, toy-like shape, UI with a gazillion styles... it makes no sense to me. It has no brand power this way. None of the games out now scream awesome for the hardcore nor do they scream amazing hit for all ages.

I really wish they branded it more as a slick device and designed it in that way. I would trade off a little bit of power to get the PSP form factor back.

 

[esquire]

Is there any evidence that the portable market is in decline or is it mostly speculation based on people's perceptions of the direction technology is heading? Nintendo seems to be doing okay. Why can't people just admit that Sony is a poorly managed company that puts out mediocre... well, everything?

 

[duk]

Is there any evidence that the portable market is in decline or is it mostly speculation based on people's perceptions of the direction technology is heading? Nintendo seems to be doing okay. Why can't people just admit that Sony is a poorly managed company that puts out mediocre... well, everything?

it's definitely mis-managed, still puts out good products here n there though

 

[Wiktor]

I hope somehow 3DS and VIta will turn out to be just fine. Smartphone gaming might be competing for the same time and money, but it doesn't offer than handheld gaming does.

 

[esquire]

it's definitely mis-managed, still puts out good products here n there though

Like what, if you don't mind me asking? By my estimation they've been in decline for the past 10 years. If you think the PS3 is a great product (it's no where near as good as the PS2, IMO), that was released in 2006. Personally, I can't think of a single Sony product I aspired to own since the PS2.

 

[PjotrStroganov]

What I think:

1. It never should've been called the Vita, but rather the PSP2.
2. Should've kept the same form factor & design as PSP.
3. Get rid of the bubble system, everything else of the UI is slick. (The bubble system is a weak attempt to make the system look inviting for all ages)

Sony should've went the PlayStation approach, the shape of the PSP is iconic, just like the DualShock controller. The name is an abbreviation that works well, just like the PS2, PS3.

I personally thought the PSP was a slick device, but the Vita is weirdly oval shaped and it's bulkier. It lost all the charms of the PSP brand. Sony basically took a gamble: wasn't happy with the performance of the PSP brand and decided to start from closer from scratch rather than building upon the userbase. That was their mistake. Plus their talk about the holy grail userbase (females), it seems like instead of focusing in a certain strong direction they want to have the cake and eat it too.

An reasonably expensive handheld with lots of power, toy-like shape, UI with a gazillion styles... it makes no sense to me. It has no brand power this way. None of the games out now scream awesome for the hardcore nor do they scream amazing hit for all ages.

I really wish they branded it more as a slick device and designed it in that way. I would trade off a little bit of power to get the PSP form factor back.

It's the software that will kill it anyway. Just as it made the PSP not perform like it should. AAA budgets with non AAA profit is never good. Smaller games with smaller budgets? Okay possible. But those are also possible on mobile phones.

 

[TGMIII]

Like what, if you don't mind me asking? By my estimation they've been in decline for the past 10 years. If you think the PS3 is a great product (it's no where near as good as the PS2, IMO), that was released in 2006. Personally, I can't think of a single Sony product I aspired to own since the PS2.

If we're looking at what the consoles did for the time they launched there's no way in hell you can say the PS2 is a better product. The PS3 launched with a few things other consoles didn't with in-built wireless (wii came with this too) , native support for up to 8 controllers, a non-proprietary removable hard drive and rechargeable controllers.

What did the ps2 have that other consoles didn't? A DVD drive and is all I can come up with.

 

[Quadrangulum]

Like what, if you don't mind me asking? By my estimation they've been in decline for the past 10 years. If you think the PS3 is a great product (it's no where near as good as the PS2, IMO), that was released in 2006. Personally, I can't think of a single Sony product I aspired to own since the PS2.

Their camera line is the obvious standout; the NEX series and their DSLRs are legitimately innovative and high quality. Their televisions have been consistently decent to superior, at least among other LCDs. The Vaio Z is the best ultraportable laptop hands down in my opinion; if not this year's revision which introduced a mediocre external GPU, it certainly was the year before. Sony's performance in audio, particularly with their headphones, is unimpeachable.

The brand has lost much of its shine but only because other companies have markedly improved. I think the bulk of their problems is strictly financial which stems from mismanagement. Moreover, their decline is conspicuous because they've been late or virtually absent from important growth segments like smartphones and tablets. However, in terms of quality, Sony's still in the thick of it in many CE and professional arenas.

 

[herod]

Err, Sony are certainly not close to the forefront of proper headphones.

 

[pestul]

If we're looking at what the consoles did for the time they launched there's no way in hell you can say the PS2 is a better product. The PS3 launched with a few things other consoles didn't with in-built wireless (wii came with this too) , native support for up to 8 controllers, a non-proprietary removable hard drive and rechargeable controllers.

What did the ps2 have that other consoles didn't? A DVD drive and is all I can come up with.

He may be referring to the game selection. More specially if he's a fan of Japanese games.