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2011/12 Dec/Jan NBA Season |OT| "Shannon Brown is not walking through that door."
- Thread starter reilo
- Start date
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Herpes Reasons
Banned
lol unlikely.
Ajay Devgan is such a boss.
If they just said, "the flu," people wouldn't immediately figure it was an STD flare up.
talisayNon
Member
bu bu bu but no one wanted him!
LEAGUE ON NOTICE
Anytime Jon Leuer is in the top 10, you know your measuring stick is ass
Edit: How the hell is Ronnie Brewer 3 spots ahead of Chris Paul
Also, Lou Williams best PG in the league confirmed!
Oh the hilarity!
darkside31337
Tomodachi wa Mahou
It's based on actual performance instead of reputation. The season is still young, the elite players will rise to the crop and the other guys will fall back.
Just because a system produces some funky results doesn't mean its inherently worthless. What is worthless is discrediting the entire thing because your favorite player hasn't been all that impressive and some other player is having a nice season so far.
Not really a PER guy but these knocks against it based on data after 5 games is pretty stupid.
If you have a really poorly written book, chances are that no matter what random page you open, it's going to be written poorly. When I can randomly put my finger on any set of 10 people in the rankings and find nothing but lulz every single time. It's a joke.
You're just making excuses for a clearly broken system. Fine, let's call it performance. Anytime your system thinks that Jon Leuer and Marvin Williams and Lou Williams and Javale McGee have outperformed Dwight Howard or Chris Paul so far this season...your system is retarded.
There's a reason no one really mentions PER anymore except as the butt of a joke...because it's become quite literally just a joke
benjipwns
Banned
You should learn about sample sizes.
PER is a system Hollinger devised to make his favorite players look better, and that's just about all it is. There are much better player rating systems out there even if you do buy into advanced basketball statistics. Yes, it will tell us if a player is good or bad, but it's not worth much beyond that IMO.
darkside31337
Tomodachi wa Mahou
Have you actually seen Dwight play this year? He's only shooting 54.6% from the field and a hilarious 41.5% from the FT line. He has not been the same Dwight as years past. But again its a small sample size.
Right. I'm just talking about the general anti-advanced stats thinking that goes around here and not specifically PER. There are many flaws with PER in itself. But PER isn't flawed because the system says unheralded Player X is having a better season than named superstar Player Y, you make the argument it's flawed based on the processes involved and not the results which don't happen to match your preconceived notions.
Rodeo Clown
All aboard! The Love train!
Because advanced basketball metrics are largely useless, my least favorite being attempting to quantify individual defense.
Useless at what? Measurement? Prediction?
My biggest issue with advanced basketball statistics is that they are not necessarily predictive of players' performances with different lineups or teams. Even adjusted +/- only goes so far here. Unless that element can be removed from play, basketball statistics are never going to be anywhere near as useful as something like advanced baseball statistics where they matter most--deciding how much someone should be paid to play on your team and how that player should be used once he's there. As far as I know, most of the attempts to account for this are pretty rudimentary--stuff like assisted FG% for example--and don' come close to telling the whole story. Once again, they'll tell you which players are good and which are bad--I don't think most of the people here are disputing that--but, beyond a few surprises, they don't do a hell of a lot more than that over shortish sample sizes like a year. I do think advanced basketball statistics can be useful when a starter's career is over. At that point, he's been with so many lineups and teams and played so many minutes that they can really start to paint a very interesting picture. But over the course of five games, or a month, or even a single season, their utility is limited because of that.
There is--or I should say are, because there are way more ideas on how to compute a player's value than there are in baseball. They're not terribly interesting to me though, because players' time on court--hence a large part of their value--is largely determined by the coaches. Again, it gives you a pretty good idea of who is playing well and who is playing badly, but I wouldn't trust it much beyond that.
Adam Blade
WWKC
Ewwww advanced stats
But having low predictive value isn't very relevant when it is easily better than all alternatives. And as you said, that's not what advanced stats are used for in the media for the most part, only to compare players against one another. There again they do a lot better than rudimentary stats like points per game.
The Frankman
Banned
Baseball sabermetrics are MUCH more precise than basketball sabermetrics. I mean there isn't a metric out there that quantifies how much guys like Corey Magette and Stephen Jackson will fuck up your team.
But are they clearly better than a combination of stats and actual scouting? To me, anyway, I don't think the answer is as clear as a lot of basketball stat guys do. It's certainly not as clear cut as it is in baseball. In baseball you can make an argument entirely off sabermetrics and I'll generally be satisfied. In basketball, that's not the case, because--as Frankman said--the stats just aren't precise enough and leave way too much gray area.
To clarify--I'm not saying advanced basketball stats are (necessarily) worse than something like points per game--though it does turn out that a very simple stat--MPG--predicted value much better than many more complex stats like PER. I'm saying that advanced stats can't come close to replacing actually watching the fucking games in basketball, which is why people who try to make arguments solely off advanced stats don't really do anything for me.
Rodeo Clown
All aboard! The Love train!
Because baseball is an individual sport.
The problem with a measurement like PER is that it lives in a giant vacuum. It's why Hollinger's analysis on the ESPN Trade Machine is not to be trusted.
Is playing for the Bobcats really playing?
Rodeo Clown
All aboard! The Love train!
I think Austin Carr is kind of endearing, how he sticks to his old catch phrases and laughs after using them. It's great.
Russell Westbrook was 8th in PER last season.
Zach Randolph 13.
Kevin Martin 19.
Al Jefferson 28.
seems right for the regular season
Black Mamba
Member
Looks right to me.
You realize this is a photoshop, right? Those players aren't tradeable per the rules. Go to the machine if you don't believe me.
PER is really just an offensive metric with rebounding (despite the steals component). It overrates shooting.
All advanced metrics have their place (except Wins Produced), just can't be the sole foundation of an argument. And most don't have any idea how to quantify defense, so you have to look at mostly through a prism of offense only (and rebounding).
Dude...
Paul Silas coaching isn't really coaching after all.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Zach Randolph was decently efficient last year and Martin isn't a chucker even though he's a blackhole and net negative.
Black Mamba
Member
Impossible to tell with Brandi.
Also, him making fun of advanced stats is odd seeing as how Dallas is at the forefront of the advanced stats stuff.
Jamesfrom818
Banned
The only thing that would make that scene better was if the car parallel parked.
AP can still sail the seven seas!
He use to have some exclusive ones for LeBron (not just Akron Hammer), but now he just spreads them around at will.
He use to have some exclusive ones for LeBron (not just Akron Hammer), but now he just spreads them around at will.
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