Anyone here also expecting Windows 8 to come with a 360 emulator with required controller for play? I mean we know the dev build has 360 crash logs in it and porting over XBLA games is a breeze. Would be a good way to get more people into Xbox gaming and keep support for the 360 open even with a new console coming up soon.
Rumor: Xbox 3 = 6-core CPU, 2GB of DDR3 Main RAM, 2 AMD GPUs w/ Unknown VRAM, At CES
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there you go an excuse for selling ps3 at a high price is advertise the ps2 backward and a BD drive not to mention the 360 and Wii prices that almost killed PS3 if those two consoles were not around trust me no one would say a word about the 600$ price tag on ps3
specialguy
Banned
Plus, PS3 timeline was dictated more by 360 than anything about the PS2. Sony didn't want to get too far behind, obviously. Just like PS2 was basically a response to Dreamcast's growing momentum.
Not really a factor for Microsoft, another reason I expect 2013 at the earliest.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
But there is also not letting your competitors get an advantage. Given how well the Wii did out of the gate, and the WiiU's more modern hardware I can't see MS wanting to give Nintendo too much of a headstart. I'd expect both MS and Sony's platforms to be on store shelves no more than a year and a half later than the WiiU. Any more than that and you run the risk of Nintendo securing the market.
A scenario neither wants.
i think the WiiU is going to suffer from that competing with ps360 ??
i mean PS360 didn't leave a room for a third HD console to jump in at all
WiiU is not that far ahead in terms of hardware and at least ps3 can compete with what the wiiu will present as an HD gaming console
Yahoo has it as part of their CES predictions:
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/technology-blog/editors-picks-ces-2012-predictions-185732597.html
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/technology-blog/editors-picks-ces-2012-predictions-185732597.html
Selling point != excuse. The PS2 had BC. There was already precedent for PS3 buyers to expect it.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
Wait... just by using modern hardware the WiiU will be a step up from the PS3/360. I don't think you understand just how antiquated that hardware is now.
Nintendo would have to intentionally gimp the hardware to be in the same ball park. Which nothing about the tech inside would lead me to believe is the case.
In any event I was talking about any marketshare advantage Nintendo secures could lead to them being the generation baseline. Weak as it may be in comparison to a 2014 PS3 or Loop. Engines scale to a wider degree of platforms now. From a modern PC to variants of that engine on handhelds.
The WiiU should be well within the margins. And neither MS or Sony wants to be the "up-port" machines.
Can we stop this BS already?
BrokenSymmetry
Member
[Nintex];34011988 said:
The article mentions that this will be the last CES with a Microsoft presence. I didn't know that. It had a big tradition with all the keynotes that Bill Gates has given there over the years.
dragonelite
Member
I think the wiiU will just get 720p ports with some additional gameplay features from the tablet controller.
I dont see Microsoft so worried about Nintendo. Its more about Apple.
I think they want to launch a device in 2012 in response to Apple's iTV.
So whatever that system would be, it wouldn't as powerful as the WiiU.
Probably, what they will do is re-use 360 parts (rename it maybe the Loop),
and position it as a multi-media hub. It might be more focused on Cloud services.
They will spend the next year or two working out a true console and launch against a possible PS4 anywhere from 2014 and 15. This way they will "Dreamcast" the WiiU. Hell, MS & Sony might even end up working together. Which may or may not happen for either company depending on what Apple iTV will offer. It might just really kill the console. Especially ones costing more than $300.
I think they want to launch a device in 2012 in response to Apple's iTV.
So whatever that system would be, it wouldn't as powerful as the WiiU.
Probably, what they will do is re-use 360 parts (rename it maybe the Loop),
and position it as a multi-media hub. It might be more focused on Cloud services.
They will spend the next year or two working out a true console and launch against a possible PS4 anywhere from 2014 and 15. This way they will "Dreamcast" the WiiU. Hell, MS & Sony might even end up working together. Which may or may not happen for either company depending on what Apple iTV will offer. It might just really kill the console. Especially ones costing more than $300.
Phonomezer
Banned
diffusionx
Gold Member
Ugh, no. Emulation and porting are 2 different things. And most likely is those 360-ish crash logs are because MS is moving all their products over to the same interface. Most likely the next system will also be using the frameworks MS is building for Windows 8.
Whatever the AppleTV does, it won't compete with home consoles for years but eventually will.
So MS has interest in putting a next-gen XBOX in 2013 and hurt Sony while giving hardcores a reason to pass WiiU.
best possible scenario for MS is to hurt Sony as much as possible in mindshare and sales and hope Nintendo can't get hardcores back.
Then they keep pushing their Windows ecosystem before Apple strikes again with new crazy stuff and hope their customers are locked in.
Don't see that happening. If MS were to in any way work in tandem with their competition my bet would be on Nintendo. Sony has been their competition all gen and, unless Nintendo is successful in doing a complete branding 180, Sony is all that stands in the way of the Xbox brand being the number one brand for gamers.
Nintendo is different enough that I see Microsoft being more willing to coexist alongside them. And with Sony in no shape to release a console any time soon I could totally see MS wanting to launch near the Wii U to all but snuff Sony out of next gen.
Why shouldn't they?
What technology do they have to offer?
What new way of playing games can they come out with that will excite the masses?
If you look at Sony's strategy, its about pushing their technology to the masses, which in turn also helped to sell their console: PS1 the CD , PS2 the DVD, PS3 the Blu-ray. What can possibly PS4 offer in the next couple of years? What does Sony really have to sell?
Then you have Microsoft, which offers what? Kinect as a technology? They barely have any notable first party titles. They know, going against the WiiU, only bringing in more powerful hardware is not going to cut it. And the mainstream cant afford it anyway.
They need time to come out with something different, and more powerful, but at an affordable price. This might mean waiting it out.
MS definitely has something to push: more entertainment for the living room via their Xbox, Live, and Kinect-based services.
No new fantastic technology is coming out within the next few years. Of course, who knows what the future holds, but if you're wanting them to wait until the next big control interface or media format, you'll be waiting until well past 2015. And with the Wii U definitely coming out this year, neither Sony and MS are going to sit around and let Nintendo have an entire gen to themselves.
I think we've reached a point in entertainment tech where it's not about introducing the next revolutionary thing, it'll be about bringing all the fledgling technologies that have been introduced to the masses and improving upon them. Motion, touch, 3d, high-fidelity streaming.
it is also a lot about emprisonning customers in an ecosystem so thaht they are too invested in it to move elsewhere. Like you cannot move your Apple purchases to MS and thus tends to buy iphone after iphone.
The 360 is dated and I have friends who dont make much money as it is that would like a new system and will purchase it. If the console is priced at 400 it will sell. Personally I really only use my 360 for gears so I will wait until the next gears game is released to purchase the console, which im guessing will be fall 2013.
Green Embers
Member
Just a random idea, but what if they announced some sort of OnLive type service for xbox 360 games, that could be played via the PC, 360 or even Windows Phone and other mobile devices. I could see something like that with a code name of Fusion. Which could be something they announce at CES and not a new console.
Eh, I'm coming completely out of left field on this.
Eh, I'm coming completely out of left field on this.
Oppo
Member
Actually, I think this is something that Microsoft would very much like to do. They're all about the services.
bgassassin
Member
That's the premise of the 10-year plan. Release a new console 5-6 years after the previous console while still giving support to the previous one. That's normal business, although this gen might be giving us a slightly extended time frame between launches which I'm not a fan of.
Except, barring some miraculous miracle, it really doesn't seem like Sony is at all their competition for the coming years. When they initially targeted Sony as their living room enemy of the future, the future looked a lot different. Sony is the least of their worries at this point.
As long as we're talking about proven HD gaming capabilities and online services, then yes Sony is very much still their main competition. I'm rooting for the Wii U, but Nintendo has a looong way to go before they can truly compete on that front.
Unless you're referring to Apple, in which case I still think that the threat they pose to MS (and Sony really) for control over the living room is way overblown.
Shin Johnpv
Member
Don't forget that on that video card things can get that complex. IE running traces to 12 memory chips. When you're dealing with a system, you also have to run traces to the CPU. Then you add in a sata controller for the disc drive, and hdd. I/O controllers, USB controllers etc etc. Suddenly your motherboard complexity shoots right up and it becomes really expensive. That all adds to the cost. It may only add say 12 bucks to the cost of chips to add some more, but suddenly its costing you X bucks more in producing your motherboard because of the added complexity. That has to be added into the equation as well.
Plus to Nirolak, they may be aiming for a 400 dollar system losing 50 dollars at launch, but if you're suddenly spending 100 dollars on every machine in ram, that doesn't leave much room for the CPU, GPU, Disk Drive, Motherboard, Hard disk drive, Updated Kinect, etc etc.
A good console is a balanced console, and blowing all your costs on memory is going to lead to a very unbalanced machine.
*Edit*
I should have kept reading I see people replied to this stuff already, never mind me then.
clutch.as.it.gets.
Member
4GB wouldn`t mean "blowing all your costs on memory". Thats ridiculous. 4GB is not that much; it would be just exactly in line with the upgrade factor we are used to in this business. And past consoles already stint on RAM, so to reduce it even more... no. I don`t want my phone to have more RAM than my gaming machine.
Psychotext
Member
If it makes you feel better I'm sure they'll be happy to give you 4gb of the shitty ram that your phone uses.
It's not about what you want, is it? RAM may be cheap, but fast RAM isn't that cheap. More importantly, you can't just keep on adding RAM chips to a system, because production cost of the motherboard and cooling system will rise if you add them. 4 GB will require 8 memory chips at minimum, and those are not going to be cheap memory chips. Furthermore they add to the complexity and cost of the motherboard. If it is Microsoft's aim to release a console that is simpler and less prone to breaking down than the 360 (and to be honest, that should be their aim), then releasing a console with 2 GB is very much a possibility.
Although some may not like it, Nintendo has shown that a console not focused on raw power but on some new input method is not just a viable, but recommendable business strategy. A next Xbox focussed around (an improved) Kinect therefore doesn't need to be very powerful from Microsoft's perspective.
dragonelite
Member
From what i got is the chips may be cheap but you have to have extra socket to plug those chips in on your motherboard.
From what I understand, it's not simply about newegg ram prices. Not only is console ram substantially more expensive, but it's currently very cost prohibitive to use more than 2gb worth of ram modules.
But no one clamoring for 4gb of ram seems to be able to grasp this simple concept, so keep on trucking.
Yes, they are a software company first and foremost.
If they introduce cloud services for the 360, I would think that would extend the life of the console.
BoobPhysics101
Banned
The RAM in your phone is most likely slower than 360 RAM.
And as I stated on the last page, developers don't need 4 GB of system RAM. 8x the amount of RAM they have available to use now is a huge, huge increase. Just because your PC has 4-8 GB doesn't mean your console needs it too.
dragonelite
Member
Hell i probably dont use more then 2 gig anyway when i play a game.
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
The iphone has gone from 112MB of RAM to 512MB throughout its history and you are talking about a $500+ piece of technology. Looking for an 8 fold increase for a console may be a bit much.
Shin Johnpv
Member
Holy shit. How many times does it have to be explained in any of the next gen threads that ram in your Phone/PC DOES NOT EQUAL ram in a console. Go out and do some reading, get educated and then come back and have a discussion.
The ram in your phone is cheap, and slow, same with the ram in your PC. Fast, high quality ram, the type of which used in consoles is expensive. In 2009, a single 64 megabyte chip of the XDR2 ram used in the PS3 cost Sony around 10 bucks. They use 4 of these chips for a total of 256 megabytes, that comes to around 40 bucks. (they used different ram for the main ram that was cheaper stuff) In 2009 that same 40 dollars could have bought you 2 GIGAbytes of DDR2-800 ram. That's 8x as much for the same price.
Do you understand the difference here?
lol
by the way the iphone is complete garbage of a hardware compared to the android phones
higherARC05
Banned
I can see 2-4gb of DDR5 ram with loads of edram on cpu. Of course a great gpu to use along them. My anticipation grows till the day they show Dem graphics.
BoobPhysics101
Banned
So you live in a delusional fantasy world.
Not me. Just reading the previous couple pages has given me grey hair. I can't believe I read those 2 things.
BoobPhysics101
Banned
Ah ok, I had a suspicion you were being facetious and mocking those who think post-process AA is the answer to everything and claim BF3 on Ultra isn't the best looking game around.
Retweeted by official Xbox twitter account ;-)
https://twitter.com/Microsoft/statuses/154957438871801856
This is why I'm in this hype boat. They just keep mentioning Xbox and everytime they mention CES they add that they announced the first Xbox there.
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