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[Opiate]

The former just has an enthusiasm for film. The latter is a haughty snob who only watches Azeri silent cinema from 1968-'73.

Okay, sure. I think I can help with a more constructive definition of "film connoisseur:" it is someone who is particularly interested in film as a means to convey complex intellectual or emotional meaning.

That doesn't mean that people can't appreciate film as an escapist fantasy, mind you -- it just isn't the function film connoisseurs are typically interested in. For example, Transformers may operate perfectly well for someone who is simply interested in seeing a film that they find fun to watch, or fun to escape in to, but it is not a film which anyone would suggest conveys sophisticated emotional and intellectual value.

Therefore, the Transformers films tend to be dismissed by film connoisseurs as they do not serve the specific functions they are interested in.

Perhaps a similar distinction could be made amongst game consumers, between "game buff / hardcore gamer" and "game connoisseur / game critic."

 

[omgkitty]

Okay, we're getting somewhere.

To follow up on my last post, what is the difference between a "film buff" and a "film connoisseur?" Honest question.

A film buff is someone who enjoys most films and will go out to see everything from the latest action flick to an indie drama film. A film connoisseur is someone who turns their noses up mainstream films and only wants to see the best of the best and the latest foreign films playing at their local indie theater. In other words

buff = open to all films
connoisseur = closed minded and very picky when it comes to quality

Basically a connoisseur is the complete opposite of most movie goers who will basically watch the new Transformers film but shit on something like foreign films because they're too lazy to read when watching a movie.

 

[Stet]

Get to the point, Opiate, do you consider yourself a hardcore gamer or a game connoisseur?

 

[noah111]

Get to the point, Opiate, do you consider yourself a hardcore gamer or a game connoisseur?

That's like asking jesus what's his favorite color.

 

[Nex Superne]

The pursuit of intellectual fufillment seems completely at odds with the targeted intent of commercial video games in the first place. Video games are crafted as entertainment, and they generally don't aspire beyond that. While the rare video game can thrill with a novel, creative gameplay mechanic, I'm not sure what kind of intellectual insight that can provide.

 

[ZeroRay]

Only difference in my mind is that connoisseur sounds more sophisticated/pretentious than buff.

 

[sooperkool]

At work also... trying hard to accomplish the feat I did yesterday.... getting paid to get absolutely nothing accomplished.

I'm trying to stay awake... here in the office

 

[Emitan]

Lights just flickered. Not again!

 

[Opiate]

Get to the point, Opiate, do you consider yourself a hardcore gamer or a game connoisseur?

This isn't a trite monologue, Stet. My interrogatives were not rhetorical.

I was specifically asking questions because I didn't know the answers. I thought I was a "hardcore" gamer when I came to NeoGAF, but apparently I am closer to something we might call a "game connoisseur." So I've learned something.

 

[leadbelly]

I'm not sure if I would consider myself a hardcore gamer anymore. I seem to have lost the enthusiasm I once had as a kid. I still like playing games, it's just that I spend less time on them. The hardcore gamer in me hates the way they have become less challenging and dumbed down, but at the same time, I don't really have the enthusiasm to sit through a game that is hard as nails and with gameplay mechanics that are incredibly deep and complicated that they take time to get to grips with.

I'm sort of caught between both sides.

 

[marrec]

This isn't a trite monologue, Stet. My interrogatives were not rhetorical.

I was specifically asking questions because I didn't know the answers. I thought I was a "hardcore" gamer when I came to NeoGAF, but apparently I am closer to something we might call a "game connoisseur." So I've learned something.

Hmm...

I think 10 years ago if you called someone a Game Connoisseur then you'd be calling them a Hardcore Gamer at the same time. With the growing popularity of gaming, a Connoisseur can be separate from a hardcore.

 

[Opiate]

Only difference in my mind is that connoisseur sounds more sophisticated/pretentious than buff.

I'm not sure -- I'm beginning to see a useful distinction. A film buff would be interested in film in every possible function for any possible reason; film can be a way to have fun with a group of people who might not otherwise get along -- a community function. It can also be a way to escape and fantasize. Or, it can be a way to convey sophisticated emotional and intellectual concepts which cannot be properly articulated by other means.

A film buff or "hardcore film fan" would be interested in all of those functions, while a film connoisseur would only be interested in the last listed (I think). I believe those definitions make sense and provide meaningful distinctions between the two terms.

 

[CHEEZMO™]

I didn't even know "hardcore" and "casual" were gaming things until a few months ago. Seemed to come out of nowhere and now everyone is using them.

 

[Stet]

This isn't a trite monologue, Stet. My interrogatives were not rhetorical.

I was specifically asking questions because I didn't know the answers. I thought I was a "hardcore" gamer when I came to NeoGAF, but apparently I am closer to something we might call a "game connoisseur." So I've learned something.

Whew. For a while there we almost weren't bound by outside definitions of self-identity. Close one.

 

[SmokyDave]

This isn't a trite monologue, Stet. My interrogatives were not rhetorical.

I was specifically asking questions because I didn't know the answers. I thought I was a "hardcore" gamer when I came to NeoGAF, but apparently I am closer to something we might call a "game connoisseur." So I've learned something.

I'm still trying to respond to your original post but I can't quite articulate what I want to say. In essence, when I look at the games I played on VIC-20, C64 and Amiga, I find it difficult to consider most games / gamers today 'hardcore'. Not only do modern games end, it's a fair bet that anyone with opposable thumbs will be able to see the ending.

 

[marrec]

I'm not sure -- I'm beginning to see a useful distinction. A film buff would be interested in film in every possible function for any possible reason; film can be a way to have fun with a group of people who might not otherwise get along -- a community funciton. It can be a way to escape. It can also be a way to convey sophisticated emotional or intellectual concepts which cannot be properly articulated by other means.

A film buff or "hardcore film fan" would be interested in all of those functions. I think a film connoisseur would only be interested in the final one. I think those definitions make sense and provide meaningful distinctions.

The problem is a Film Buff will watch films across a wide spectrum. Films considered traditionally bad by critics can be enjoyed by film buffs and films considered extremely mainstream can also be enjoyed. So if Film Buff is to be synonymous with Hardcore Gamer then you'd have to allow for the Hardcore Gamer to get just as much enjoyment out of Bejeweled as they would out of Dark Souls.

 

[Davedough]

I didn't even know "hardcore" and "casual" were gaming things until a few months ago. Seemed to come out of nowhere and now everyone is using them.

You can thank the Wii for that.

 

[Opiate]

Whew. For a while there we almost weren't bound by outside definitions of self-identity. Close one.

Don't be puerile. If you aren't interested in the discussion, you don't have to participate. From what I can tell, we've come to fairly meaningful and precise understandings of two terms which I had previously considered exactly synonymous. That has value to me.

 

[Wallach]

The pursuit of intellectual fufillment seems completely at odds with the targeted intent of commercial video games in the first place. Video games are crafted as entertainment, and they generally don't aspire beyond that. While the rare video game can thrill with a novel, creative gameplay mechanic, I'm not sure what kind of intellectual insight that can provide.

Well, for my part I think the fulfillment a connoisseur would be looking to get from a game would be in the deconstruction of the mechanics themselves; their close examination often provides insight into the game's complexity and design chops. I realize that probably sells the other aspect of many games (like their narratives and such) short, but I also don't think those things are any great strength of the medium and really aren't caught up in the foundation of their existence, contrary to things like films.

 

[Silentagony]

Wow, this thread has really de-railed.



But, I thought I'd share these pics of my boyfriend (This is also his account). One normal one and one funny one to make this thread more amusing!

 

[Davedough]

Wow, this thread has really de-railed.



But, I thought I'd share these pics of my boyfriend (This is also his account). One normal one and one funny one to make this thread more amusing!

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-PML77ISsrLg/Twxcnrz5RrI/AAAAAAAAATE/2Q0eIwx0vf8/s144/avatar.jpg[IMG]

[IMG]https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-kvS0AQHw8eg/Twxd1KXcuHI/AAAAAAAAATo/9AgK6FYDclU/s616/toadstool.jpg[IMG][/QUOTE]

To be fair, this thread doesn't really have rails. It's been a floating topic of discussion for 100+ pages.

 

[Opiate]

The problem is a Film Buff will watch films across a wide spectrum. Films considered traditionally bad by critics can be enjoyed by film buffs and films considered extremely mainstream can also be enjoyed. So if Film Buff is to be synonymous with Hardcore Gamer then you'd have to allow for the Hardcore Gamer to get just as much enjoyment out of Bejeweled as they would out of Dark Souls.

That is logical -- conclusions shattered. Oh well, I give up for now, as I've clearly irritated some people when I had no intention of doing so. Silly me for enjoying etymology.

 

[leadbelly]

I'm still trying to respond to your original post but I can't quite articulate what I want to say. In essence, when I look at the games I played on VIC-20, C64 and Amiga, I find it difficult to consider most games / gamers today 'hardcore'. Not only do modern games end, it's a fair bet that anyone with opposable thumbs will be able to see the ending.

I suppose it doesn't help that a lot of developers have concluded that most people don't finish their games. I can see them using that as an excuse to make them shorter and even easier.

I don't really like this trend of short games with multiplayer tacked on to it. I actually buy certain games for the single player and not the multiplayer. It's the reason I haven't bought a COD game yet, because I'm not paying full price for a 5 hour game. Even when they drop in price, they don't drop by much. Fucking Activision!

 

[Stet]

Don't be puerile. If you aren't interested in the discussion, you don't have to participate. From what I can tell, we've come to fairly meaningful and precise understandings of two terms which I had previously considered exactly synonymous. That has value to me.

I find the discussion of why we play games stimulating and satisfying. I just don't understand the need to take the personal conclusions we come to in that discussion and fit them into a model of what others consider acceptable. The words "hardcore" and "connoisseur" aren't just letters strung together into programming syntax, they carry a lot of weight and connote positive and negative aspects of the person they describe, and quite frankly never really come close to accurately describing much of anything. They're invented terms that mean different things to different people. What else can we throw in there? "Game Aficionado"? "Gaming Titan"?

They're all equally useless, and I think it does a disservice to a valuable discussion to throw everything away at the end in favour of a stupid term that doesn't mean anything.

 

[Wallach]

That is logical -- conclusions shattered. Oh well, I give up for now, as I've clearly irritated some people when I had no intention of doing so. Silly me for enjoying etymology.

Anti-intellectualism is the new shit, bro.

 

[Davedough]

While I do see some good hats, I don't believe there are enough hats in the avatars today.

 

[Ashes]

That is logical -- conclusions shattered. Oh well, I give up for now, as I've clearly irritated some people when I had no intention of doing so. Silly me for enjoying etymology.

And you also have to allow that at any given time, you can take on a different role, a different identity. If I saw a guy on the tube (train) playing a classic RPG on his ds, I wouldn't now how to class him. But if he were then discussing it on a forum, like neogaf, then he is a core gamer to me

 

[Nex Superne]

That is logical -- conclusions shattered. Oh well, I give up for now, as I've clearly irritated some people when I had no intention of doing so. Silly me for enjoying etymology.

If you're looking for games that require a high degree of technical proficiency coupled with predictive decision-making, you might enjoy watching pro Quake Live duels.

 

[CHEEZMO™]

While I do see some good hats, I don't believe there are enough hats in the avatars today.

I dont own any hats

 

[.la1n]

Pirate tuesday aka hat tuesday

 

[Wallach]

I dont own any hats

I don't either, but I do own a dog. Improvise.

 

[Davedough]

I dont own any hats

I'm balancing a plane..... on my head.

Find something that will cover your dome and do it mang!

 

[CHEEZMO™]

I'm balancing a plane..... on my head.

Find something that will cover your dome and do it mang!

I do have a plaid teatowel but that might be racist.

 

[.la1n]

or is this better...

nah I like the full on hat.

 

[GameplayWhore]

I'm balancing a plane..... on my head.

Wow, I thought it was just hanging from the ceiling in the background!

 

[leadbelly]

So people are going full on pirate. I wanted davedough to be a pirate with his parrot.

 

[marrec]

That is logical -- conclusions shattered. Oh well, I give up for now, as I've clearly irritated some people when I had no intention of doing so. Silly me for enjoying etymology.

I'm always up for a good debate about how words define who we are. My favorite philosopher is Wittgenstein and my Finacee is going to school to be a linguist. We can continue the discussion later if the mood lightens.

I think it's important as a gaming community for people who consider themselves to be representatives of an ideal form of gaming to get ahead of the terminology that will be used to identify us. Allowing other people to label what is considered what is how we went from music in 1989 to music in 1995.

 

[GameplayWhore]

I do have a plaid teatowel but that might be racist.

No, it's okay, there are no stereotypes about white people and towels. Do it. DOOO IIIIIT!

 

[Davedough]

I do have a plaid teatowel but that might be racist.

As long as you fashion it like Gretta Garbo, you'll be fine.

 

[Rinoa]

Just woke up, lots to catch up to but I'm loving all the new avatars!

Jasonng finally showing his face, Count Dookkake with a more believable photo of him, jim-jam bongs showing us the meaning of his name, CountAntonius reaffirming he looks like Sparrow, ShockingAlberto let's use see beyond those hazed glasses, mokeyjoe getting rid of that tom's-myspace-flash-in-mirror av, Duderz revealed to actually be an old man, Zomba13 letting everyone (or just me) know she's he's a he, Billychu shows us he doesn't make funny faces in EVERY pic of his, Steamlord not owning a hat (plastic cups ftw?), AgentWhiskers revealing he's BALD?!, Tence looking even sillier than wearing a kitty-imbedded hoodie, Arjen resigning from aviator gaf (;[), H.Protagonist, Lissar and Kitsunebaby making it harder and harder to resist that urge to send them a private, private PM, Rinoa showing Davedough that she IS the one in the skirt, and EviLore being a week and a half late to the party, but reaffirms he is indeed the lost son of Bashar Al-Assad (it's in their blood to rule dictatorships).

Yes, unfortunately, I know all this from the top of my head... Also;

GAT DAMN.

Are you gonna do anything interesting with this folder?

 

[Nex Superne]

Well, for my part I think the fulfillment a connoisseur would be looking to get from a game would be in the deconstruction of the mechanics themselves; their close examination often provides insight into the game's complexity and design chops. I realize that probably sells the other aspect of many games (like their narratives and such) short, but I also don't think those things are any great strength of the medium and really aren't caught up in the foundation of their existence, contrary to things like films.

But that's just the thing. While a well-crafted game can generate interest for its own design/mechanics and all of the labor that went into its constituent parts, how many games say anything genuinely meaningful or insightful in a broader cultural context?

 

[.la1n]

Are you gonna do anything interesting with this folder?

watch RP burn

 

[cooljeanius]

Are you gonna do anything interesting with this folder?

He already has.

 

[Darth Pinche]

While I do see some good hats, I don't believe there are enough hats in the avatars today.

Hats, you say? Behold the mighty Sombrero!

 

[Davedough]

Are you gonna do anything interesting with this folder?

Do you REALLY want the answer to that?

Hats, you say? Behold the mighty Sombrero!

And what an absolutely fantabulous sombrero it is my good man!

 

[marrec]

But that's just the thing. While a well-crafted game can generate interest for its own design/mechanics and all of the labor that went into its constituent parts, how many games say anything genuinely meaningful or insightful in a broader cultural context?

Plenty of games, but like movies they tend to be indie games that are able to experiment more with structure and design.

 

[Emitan]

Too annoying to check on my phone but I think I forgot to put Trackmania 2 on my GotY list

 

[Ezalc]

While I do see some good hats, I don't believe there are enough hats in the avatars today.

I already explained my situation with regards to this.

 

[Wallach]

But that's just the thing. While a well-crafted game can generate interest for its own design/mechanics and all of the labor that went into its constituent parts, how many games say anything genuinely meaningful or insightful in a broader cultural context?

I don't think that is something a game should strive to achieve in the first place.

 

[Ashes]

I don't either, but I do own a dog. Improvise.

Lawl