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Real Pic January!

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Nex Superne said:
But that's just the thing. While a well-crafted game can generate interest for its own design/mechanics and all of the labor that went into its constituent parts, how many games say anything genuinely meaningful or insightful in a broader cultural context?
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I suppose it also depends on what defines a game. Do we really want games to emulate cinema?

I think it is pretty hard to have any meaningful social commentary when you're kicking 10 shits out random enemies.
 
leadbelly said:
I suppose it also depends on what defines a game. Do we really want games to emulate cinema?

I think it is pretty hard to have any meaningful social commentary when you're kicking 10 shits out random enemies.
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Why do we automatically go back to the games where we're kicking the shit out of people to say 'Games can't do social commentary!' There are plenty of games out there that can do social commentary on the same level as many films. No, they aren't your newest AAA release but who cares.
 
marrec said:
Why do we automatically go back to the games where we're kicking the shit out of people to say 'Games can't do social commentary!' There are plenty of games out there that can do social commentary on the same level as many films. No, they aren't your newest AAA release but who cares.
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Not really the games that sell. I would say some RPGs have gone there to some degree,
 
A lot of people that play casual games hate the term gamers. I know a few female friends that play a few games but hate the term because of the negative social stigma attached to it.
 
leadbelly said:
Not really the games that sell. I would say some RPGs have gone there to some degree,
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This won't be a shock to anyone, but the games that sell extremely well will never achieve any level of social commentary no matter how hard they try (I'm looking at you Modern Warfare...) because the majority of people aren't looking for some kind of depressing mirror that they can control, they're looking for escapism and they want to hit that big ass ramp.

Firefly wasn't canceled because it was too dumb.

There is another way to do interesting social commentary, and that is through Humor. But doing regular humor in games is hard enough without trying to do some kind of irony or satire at the same time.

Inanna said:
A lot of people that play casual games hate the term gamers. I know a few female friends that play a few games but hate the term because of the negative social stigma attached to it.
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I had no idea there was still a negative social stigma attached to the word 'Gamer'... :(

jasonng said:
Sentry is to that folder as fistfulofmetal is to his Natalie Portman folder.
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Gross! I'm eating lunch here man!
 
Inanna said:
A lot of people that play casual games hate the term gamers. I know a few female friends that play a few games but hate the term because of the negative social stigma attached to it.
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I think gamers is a weird term though, i don't call myself a movie-er or music-er or something although i really love both. It's funny people who enjoy games label themself as such.
 
marrec said:
This won't be a shock to anyone, but the games that sell extremely well will never achieve any level of social commentary no matter how hard they try (I'm looking at you Modern Warfare...) because the majority of people aren't looking for some kind of depressing mirror that they can control, they're looking for escapism and they want to hit that big ass ramp.

Firefly wasn't canceled because it was too dumb.

There is another way to do interesting social commentary, and that is through Humor. But doing regular humor in games is hard enough without trying to do some kind of irony or satire at the same time.
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Agreed. The majority of gamers these days just want shallow entertainment. They don't want to be asked questions, they just want to pick up the game and play. It's 'action' that sells and I'm not sure anyone is really concerned about the message behind it.
 
My own sister calls me extremely immature because I like games and own a gaming console/gaming PC. She keeps going on and on about when am I going to grow up and give up gaming for good when she herself plays games on facebook and also has quite a few on her laptop/iphone. :\
 
Inanna said:
My own sister calls me extremely immature because I like games and own a gaming console/gaming PC. She keeps going on and on about when am I going to grow up and give up gaming for good when she herself plays games on facebook and also has quite a few on her laptop/iphone. :\
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Facebook games are the epitome of lameness.
 
Crazy hat daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay!
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leadbelly said:
I'll just add: I think the Portal games did humour rather well.
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Right, and that was a good use of irony, but there wasn't any broad social commentary behind it I think...

Someone like Terry Pratchett can write an entire novel satirizing a single subject and have it be both an 'action filled thrill-ride' and a deep meditation on an aspect of the human condition. Games haven't been able to achieve that yet because I don't know if the medium translates humor well enough.

What I'm saying is, we will never get a Third Person Shooter staring Rincewind! :(

Unless you count RLH.

The above spoiler is hilarious if you've read any Discworld novel starring Rincewind. Trust me.
 
Ok, my weigh in on the whole games thing...

Hardcore game - A game developed that is approachable by seasoned gamers that has great depth, story and gameplay. It is engaging for several hours and takes dedication to complete. This is tailored towards people who play games as a hobby.

Casual game - A pick-up-and-go type of game that appeals to many different audiences. The casual game market is catered towards people who do not have a lot of time for games but want a diversion from time to time.

Hardcore gamer - Someone who plays video games quite regularly, is familiar with upcoming titles, follows specific developers and participates in gaming social events such as forum debates, etc.

Casual gamer - Has a Wii, plays pogo.com and generally enjoys small simple games from time to time.

Game Connoisseur - A term invented here that is innocuous but ultimately means someone is allowed to be a douche about their gaming habits and profess that they still own an original working Amiga and feel everyone should envy them for it.
 
Davedough said:
Game Connoisseur - A term invented here that is innocuous but ultimately means someone is allowed to be a douche about their gaming habits and profess that they still own an original working Amiga and feel everyone should envy them for it.
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Why does this term have such negative connotations? Can't a Game Connoisseur be a nice guy too?
 
Hardcore gamer = someone who plays games while listening to black flag and gets up for the occasional slam dance. May be a member of fsu and therefore an ass.
 
Davedough said:
To be fair, this thread doesn't really have rails. It's been a floating topic of discussion for 100+ pages.
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:lol This had me laughing for some reason, perhaps because of how true it is.

Silentagony said:
But, I thought I'd share these pics of my boyfriend (This is also his account). One normal one and one funny one to make this thread more amusing!
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There's a thread for posting pics of your lover, this is for posting pics of yourself!! Unless you're really a cat, then I totally apologize!

Davedough said:
While I do see some good hats, I don't believe there are enough hats in the avatars today.
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I don't want to change my avatar. :( Plus it would be weird right click saving myself.
 
marrec said:
Why does this term have such negative connotations? Can't a Game Connoisseur be a nice guy too?
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Tell me how many connoisseurs of anything haven't been completely shitty about what they have done, seen, achieved, or collected and you haven't, be it wine, games, movies, or japanese women's panties.
 
marrec said:
Right, and that was a good use of irony, but there wasn't any broad social commentary behind it I think...

Someone like Terry Pratchett can write an entire novel satirizing a single subject and have it be both an 'action filled thrill-ride' and a deep meditation on an aspect of the human condition. Games haven't been able to achieve that yet because I don't know if the medium translates humor well enough.

What I'm saying is, we will never get a Third Person Shooter staring Rincewind! :(
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Yeah. It doesn't have any really deep meaningful commentary about the human condition. I was just mentioning a game I thought did humour rather well.

Humour is a hard thing to get right because it's partly based on timing. It would be hard thing to convey in real-time gameplay. In that sense, it is sort of reserved mainly for the cutscenes.
 
Davedough said:
Ok, my weigh in on the whole games thing...

Hardcore game - A game developed that is approachable by seasoned gamers that has great depth, story and gameplay. It is engaging for several hours and takes dedication to complete. This is tailored towards people who play games as a hobby.

Casual game - A pick-up-and-go type of game that appeals to many different audiences. The casual game market is catered towards people who do not have a lot of time for games but want a diversion from time to time.
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I strongly disagree about the terms "Hardcore game" and "Casual game". While some games can be catered to a casual gamer, it's hard to find a game that *cannot* be played in a hardcore fashion. Wii Play is considered to be a "casual game", for instance, but you have to be pretty astonishingly hardcore to hit a high score in it. Example ← this is NOT casual game playing. It is pretty much the highest level of hardcore gamer playing a game that happens to be usually played by casual gamers.

I think it also works in the other direction. Many games seen as "hardcore" are often played in an entirely casual fashion, like the Madden and CoD games.
 
Davedough said:
Tell me how many connoisseurs of anything haven't been completely shitty about what they have done, seen, achieved, or collected and you haven't, be it wine, games, movies, or japanese women's panties.
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How did you know?!

I think part of why a 'connoisseur' is looked down on is anti-intellectualism. I consider myself a 'connoisseur' of music, but I don't go around intentionally shitting on peoples musical tastes. If someone wants to have a conversation about WHY I don't like Katy Perry or Lady GaGa, I'd love to have that conversation, but nobody ever does and they just automatically write me off as some shitty hipster who just doesn't like mainstream music.
 
GameplayWhore said:
I strongly disagree about the terms "Hardcore game" and "Casual game". While some games can be catered to a casual gamer, it's hard to find a game that *cannot* be played in a hardcore fashion. Wii Play is considered to be a "casual game", for instance, but you have to be pretty astonishingly hardcore to hit a high score in it. Example ← this is NOT casual game playing. It is pretty much the highest level of hardcore gamer playing a game that happens to be usually played by casual gamers.

I think it also works in the other direction. Many games seen as "hardcore" are often played in an entirely casual fashion, like the Madden and CoD games.
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Well sure, anything taken to that level can be considered hardcore, but that level of play was not how the game was marketed. The game was developed and brought out to cater to and entice a demographic of people who normally do not care for games, and therefore the casual gamer nomenclature was born.
 
Davedough said:
Tell me how many connoisseurs of anything haven't been completely shitty about what they have done, seen, achieved, or collected and you haven't, be it wine, games, movies, or japanese women's panties.
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That certainly isn't the way Opiate used the term.

For any interest or hobby, there will always be people who take an elitist attitude based on an actual or perceived knowledge gap. But that doesn't mean everyone will fall into that tendency.
 
Xenogears probably has one of the deepest storylines I have ever experienced in a game. For this reason, it is incredibly convoluted and hard to follow. It has been criticised as such, but I feel it all depends on your background when coming into the game. At the time I was delving quite deeply into philosophy and spirituality. I was quite aware of various mystical concepts.

There are things in that game that may appear a little absurd, but understanding the concepts that influenced their line of thought, you sort of understand it from allegorical perspective. For instance the way creation happened on that planet is based on spiritual concepts.

I always remember a line in that game that really struck a chord with me. I can't remember the exact wording, but it was about pain and suffering. Through suffering we understand other people's suffering. We gain empathy for others because of our own experiences. We can relate to them because we understand what it is to suffer.
 
Davedough said:
Well sure, anything taken to that level can be considered hardcore, but that level of play was not how the game was marketed. The game was developed and brought out to cater to and entice a demographic of people who normally do not care for games, and therefore the casual gamer nomenclature was born.
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Yep, and I have no problem with the casual gamer nomenclature. I don't like the term "casual game". It's partly because it seems far more subjective. There's an entire class of games that I would assume to be called "casual" (because the people I know who play it just get it out of instinct and play it a little then shelve it until the next year) that a giant, giant portion of the game playing audience calls "hardcore" (because leaderboards or something).
 
Opiate said:
I actually get this pretty frequently (because an enormous portion of the games I play are on Yahoo! Games), and it does bring in to question what exactly makes a game "hardcore."

Before joining this site, I had simply assumed that "hardcore" games were those that tested your mental accuity and strongly pressured your decision making skills. Games like Homeworld or Men of War. In other words, intellectually challenging, hard games.

But that is very clearly not the case. Skyrim, as a most recent example, is not a hard game. Red Dead Redemption does not appear to be a hard game (I have not played it very long myself). Most of these GotY games, like Mass Effect or Uncharted, hardly test one and can easily be beaten on the highest difficulty setting in a week or two of practice.

So if it's not difficulty / intellectual challenge, what makes a game "hardcore?" This is something I've occassionally brought up on the gaming side but haven't pushed because I'm not interested in rankling feathers.
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I realize this conversation is mostly over, but I wanted to point out that the hardcore/casual delineation is mostly segregationist to give people an inflated sense of superiority. My best stab at a reason is that these are likely people who were ostracized in life (made fun of for their hobby, weight, lack of social skills, etc.) that choose to do the same within their own special subculture because now they have the "advantage."

If I were to be selective in what I described as my most recent gaming sessions (say, only mentioning Mario Galaxy 2, Mario Kart 7, and some occasional Words with Friends), I might be labeled a casual gamer. But if I told you I played something like 400 games in 2011, regardless of quality or genre, people would say the opposite despite there effectively being no difference.

It's the gaming community's equivalent of "white trash," even though it's probably meant to be less insulting than that and more just generally demeaning.
 
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